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Thread: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

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    a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    So, I was thinking this morning-- and just posted Dpr

    In the film days, we would buy into a system, based on both camera bodies and lenses. You had to weigh the ergonomics, features, and production cycle (sometimes 8 years) of the body AND the lens lineup-- which lenses fit your style best. (assuming we are ignoring factors like flash capability).
    This could mean rangefinder, SLR, or even medium format versions of both.

    Then, with the advent of DSLRs and the tremendous acceleration of camera body production cycles/obsolescence, the lens system became the prime consideration-- the technological leapfrogging of sensor and body combinations, and rapid depreciation of camera body value made the lenses the most stable, logical prime factor in choosing a system (leaving niche products out of the equation).

    Im wondering now, with mirrorless leaving infancy and heading into childhood, and especially with full frame mirrorless, if we arent entering into a totally new age of equipment. Unless you have a very specific need, like high speed AF/FPS, there is no longer to choose a system at all.

    I have the A7r, and have been using:

    Canon EF lenses with full functionality
    Olympus OM lenses
    Leica and Voigtlander M mount lenses
    Sony E mount lenses
    Canon RF lenses
    Canon FD lenses
    Nikkor AiS lenses

    Essentially, the A7/A7r (or any mirrorless full frame with EVF) allows one to cherry pick lenses from across almost every system, and I assume in the future, mate those lenses to any body that will accept the correct adapter. (with of course some limitations).

    Granted, not EVERY lens functions to its full potential, but it seems as if there is suddenly a vast array of possibilities that were not there-- and freedom from systems.

    Thoughts?

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    First FF model but for the rest people have been using old lenses on mirrorless cameras since the G1 and even before on Canon and olympus dslr's.

    This thing has been going on for a while.

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Another view: in two years or so, I expect FF sensors to be in the 60MP range. Many legacy lenses will simply not be up to the task, and newly-designed lenses will be needed. At that point, using a system's native lenses will become much more attractive (assuming they are as good as or betters than the FE primes appear to be).

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    First FF model but for the rest people have been using old lenses on mirrorless cameras since the G1 and even before on Canon and olympus dslr's.

    This thing has been going on for a while.
    Agreed, but I think "full frame" has kicked the door completely open. Prior to this, I always had a full frame system and used mirrorless as a secondary-- I still havent sold my DSLR, and in fact have a slush fund stashed for the mythical canon high MP model...

    But I had never considered moving entirely to mirrorless until now.

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Yes a lot of people are making the switch now, but not Rock Kenwell.
    His flimsy test between the A7, Canon 5DIII and Leica M is strangly:

    The Sony is a toy from one of the world's leaders in video and audio gear. It's fun to put different lenses on it, but it can't compete with real cameras from Nikon and Canon.

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?


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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdg137 View Post

    Granted, not EVERY lens functions to its full potential, but it seems as if there is suddenly a vast array of possibilities that were not there-- and freedom from systems.

    Thoughts?
    Actually they do and much better on the A7R (with the exception of Leica M, of course that has become boutique ware and is now in a class of its own).

    However, the Sony stuff is hardly a system. For most of the new (Sony) users, it is a transitory curiosity. It makes a lot of news because it is a disruptive entry.

    If it is sustainable or not depends on whether Sony come up with useful accessories and support or not.

    They have WiFi and NFC in the A7/7R but have no wireless flash possibilities, for example. This, to me, is a clear indication of Sony's priorities.

    Rock Kenwell speaks the truth in his own twisted way. Starts a page with "make a donation". Gotta love this guy! Cunning stunt!
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Yes a lot of people are making the switch now, but not Rock Kenwell.
    His flimsy test between the A7, Canon 5DIII and Leica M is strangly:

    The Sony is a toy from one of the world's leaders in video and audio gear. It's fun to put different lenses on it, but it can't compete with real cameras from Nikon and Canon.
    Well, at least he didn't include Leica in the category of 'Real' cameras! Hahaha....

    Remarkably, they guy must make enough from his site to continue carrying the standard. What an oaf.

    If he'd used the same lens on the a7r as the Canon, I suspect he'd see a drastically different result. As it is, he did so many things wrong that it's hard to even begin.

    But as we all know, even bad publicity is good publicity.


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If it is sustainable or not depends on whether Sony come up with useful accessories and support or not.p
    I think the problem with Sony is that, despite fantastic innovation and new cameras they don't understand about continuity. Apparently NEX is dead , A mount looks really unlikely to carry on for long. Whilst Canikon refuse to change Sony just can't stop!

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Yes a lot of people are making the switch now, but not Rock Kenwell.
    His flimsy test between the A7, Canon 5DIII and Leica M is strangly:

    The Sony is a toy from one of the world's leaders in video and audio gear. It's fun to put different lenses on it, but it can't compete with real cameras from Nikon and Canon.
    It was a very silly test. He tested a 5d with a native, a M240 with a native and then the a7 with a non-native when a 55mm native is available. Bizarre.
    Ben
    Perth, Australia

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think the problem with Sony is that, despite fantastic innovation and new cameras they don't understand about continuity. Apparently NEX is dead , A mount looks really unlikely to carry on for long. Whilst Canikon refuse to change Sony just can't stop!
    All assumptions directly contradicted by Sony.

    NEX the name is dead, but E mount aps-c cameras replacements are soon to be introduced. Alpha mount is due for new models early 2014.

    Here's a recent interview with Sony's camera chief. Google Translate

    Graham

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think the problem with Sony is that, despite fantastic innovation and new cameras they don't understand about continuity. Apparently NEX is dead , A mount looks really unlikely to carry on for long. Whilst Canikon refuse to change Sony just can't stop!
    Yes, they just launched a new Zeiss 50/1.4 with SSW AF for the soon to be dead A system ...

    The continuity has been fine ... A900/850, roll-out of A mount lenses, A99, spanning about 4 or 5 years, and now even the A7/A7R takes the A mounts.

    The successor to the A99 is most likely going to sport the new sensor tech. Strongly rumored as a 54 meg with a whole new way of exposing each pixel.

    My A99 isn't going anywhere because it has in-body stabilization and dual card slots, both of which are essential to many wedding and event shooters.

    I seriously doubt IBS will be in any A7 successor ... otherwise why would they be introducing stabilized FE lenses?

    I do think their next DSLR will be smaller than the A99.

    - Marc

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Funny, the granddaddies of cameras, view cameras, you would buy a lens from any manufacturer and simply mount it in a lens board. The more things change...

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, they just launched a new Zeiss 50/1.4 with SSW AF for the soon to be dead A system ...

    The continuity has been fine ... A900/850, roll-out of A mount lenses, A99, spanning about 4 or 5 years, and now even the A7/A7R takes the A mounts.

    The successor to the A99 is most likely going to sport the new sensor tech. Strongly rumored as a 54 meg with a whole new way of exposing each pixel.
    Graham, Marc
    I hope you're right, but E mount lens roll out has been pretty slow and patchy,one or two lovely lenses, but lots of Ho-hum lenses. Maybe that's going to change-for me the 24-70 FE zoom is going to decide me, and if you're right Marc with respect to the A99 replacement then that's great.

    Maybe it's me that's inconsistent. My A900 was an all time favorite and I also loved the A77. I was lured away by some excellent Zuiko lenses.

    Anyway, there is nothing I'd like better than seeing them succeed with this. It still doesn't help my 7/7r decision!

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...It still doesn't help my 7/7r decision!
    My take: the A7 is too much like the M you already have. I'd go for the A7R.
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The successor to the A99 is most likely going to sport the new sensor tech. Strongly rumored as a 54 meg with a whole new way of exposing each pixel.


    - Marc
    Marc, I thought I read that it will be a 36MP camera, sometime this next year... I think the 54MP will be in 2015-6, so probably won't show up in the next pro camera.

    This one says 24 and 36 MP sensors for cameras in 2014 and 2015.
    (SR5) Sony sensor revolution: First “non-Bayer” sensors coming in 2015. | sonyalpharumors

    Regardless, it appears Sony has no intention of getting rid of the A line of cameras, but I expect that the mirrorless cameras are going to take over the market, and DSLR sales are going to continue to erode. Too many people happily shooting with cell phones for it to not be on a downward slide.


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Yes a lot of people are making the switch now, but not Rock Kenwell.
    His flimsy test between the A7, Canon 5DIII and Leica M is strangly:

    The Sony is a toy from one of the world's leaders in video and audio gear. It's fun to put different lenses on it, but it can't compete with real cameras from Nikon and Canon.
    He grows when you quote him.
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Graham, Marc
    I hope you're right, but E mount lens roll out has been pretty slow and patchy,one or two lovely lenses, but lots of Ho-hum lenses. Maybe that's going to change-for me the 24-70 FE zoom is going to decide me, and if you're right Marc with respect to the A99 replacement then that's great.

    Maybe it's me that's inconsistent. My A900 was an all time favorite and I also loved the A77. I was lured away by some excellent Zuiko lenses.

    Anyway, there is nothing I'd like better than seeing them succeed with this. It still doesn't help my 7/7r decision!
    Well, you said it in another conversation we had Jono ... for someone like me with a slew of A mount lenses the decision is easier ... and that is the continuity aspect I am alluding to.

    The A900 is a favorite with me also, and still is ... I have no idea why, but this camera is more akin to that camera than the A99 when it comes to color response ... except it provides really high ISO abilities missing in the A900. Maybe the new processor and how they tuned it in the A7/A7Rs?

    You shoot a LOT more color M stuff than I do, so the M240 makes more sense than it did for me ... my Mono dominates any rangefinder work I do so a decent little body to do a few color travel shots or occasional portrait with M lenses is all I really need.

    I'm a bit more patient regarding native FE lenses (like I was with the S2, where lack of lenses was a major criticism, but look at them now!).

    The 55/1.8 sounds decent enough ... but I agree, how the stabilized 24-70/4 performs optically, and how good the AF is, will be a big determiner on adding native FE lenses. A stabilized 24-70 would be a welcome addition for wedding and event shooting as well as general travel and walk-abouts. The f/4 max aperture is less of a concern with this camera than an OVF camera because the EVF provides good subject viewing even in really low light ... and f/4 is okay because the A7R high ISO performance is so good. How close the minimum focusing distance is will be of interest (so you can get nice OOF areas @ 70mm when desired).

    I think if this camera garners good sales, Zeiss will follow up on their planned roll out of dedicated FE lenses ... sooner than later. I'm fairly sure they are privy to Sony's product development plan regarding future FE mount Alpha cameras ... which, if the past has been any indication, will come tumbling out of Sony's Cornucopia at a mind numbing rate ... I mean, come on, how many iterations of APSC Alphas and NEXs can fit on the head of a pin

    A happy holiday season to you and your family Jono!

    - Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 20th December 2013 at 03:11.
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    Marc, I thought I read that it will be a 36MP camera, sometime this next year... I think the 54MP will be in 2015-6, so probably won't show up in the next pro camera.

    This one says 24 and 36 MP sensors for cameras in 2014 and 2015.
    (SR5) Sony sensor revolution: First “non-Bayer” sensors coming in 2015. | sonyalpharumors

    Regardless, it appears Sony has no intention of getting rid of the A line of cameras, but I expect that the mirrorless cameras are going to take over the market, and DSLR sales are going to continue to erode. Too many people happily shooting with cell phones for it to not be on a downward slide.


    ---Michael
    Yeah Michael, I think you are right. If the new big meg non-Bayer sensor sees the light of day in 2014 ... it may be in a Hasselblad camera. That is the strong rumor from decent sources on the Hasselblad rumor sites. That would help amortize the R&D costs, and reduce the cost to manufacture that is rumored to be too high right now for inclusion in an Alpha A mount camera.

    I'm putting away my shekels in anticipation of the next Alpha flagship: 36 meg, next gen BOINZ processor; high ISO; better EVF; keep the dual card slots; even better IBIS-II (if they do not include IBIS, I will not buy the camera); KEEP that wonderful articulated LCD (love that you can turn it facing inward to protect the surface), bit smaller than the A99, (but not too small please).

    The question I have is ... will they continue with the translucent mirror or go mirror-less? I hope they keep it because the A7R is faster AF with the LAEA4 Translucent Mirror adapter than without it. AF speed HAS to be stellar in any flagship FF Alpha. That, or some new tech for AF that trumps the current dual AF SLT system in the A99 (2 Phase contrast sensors, including one above the mirror, and one at focal plane).

    What would be really cool is if in the spirit of mutual cooperation Hasselblad let Sony incorporate True Focus Absolute Position Lock in an Alpha flagship camera ... OMG!... I'd be on that like a beggar on a dollar. It is the best off-center composition AF solution I have ever used from anyone, ever!

    Sony, who would have thunk it? The future ain't what it used to be ...

    Back to their old theme line:

    SONY, The One And Only!



    - Marc
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Back to their old theme line:

    SONY, The One And Only!



    - Marc
    Well, I never would have thought that in the past, but look at where we are today...

    The a900 made me take notice (and sell all of my Canon gear after 25+ years as a mostly happy Canon person). This camera is the obvious partner to the a900 for me, and it sounds like there are a lot of people considering switching camps with it's introduction.


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Sold all my Canon gear to jump to the highest MP camera at the time, the A900. I have a treasure trove of Zeiss and Minolta lenses. When the D800E came out, I bought into that system for the higher Mp count (I make big prints), but I still have my A900 and lenses. If Sony comes out with a high Mp A mount camera, I am on board. SonyAlpha Rumors says with confidence, that TWO A mount cameras will be announced after the new year! I have an A7R and LAEA4 adapter, and my A mount lenses are seeing the light of day again
    Dave in NJ

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Another view: in two years or so, I expect FF sensors to be in the 60MP range. Many legacy lenses will simply not be up to the task, and newly-designed lenses will be needed. At that point, using a system's native lenses will become much more attractive (assuming they are as good as or betters than the FE primes appear to be).
    MMmmm... I think that photographers needing 60MP are really a niche. That is way too much pixels save for a few pros and only a few pro will be concerned, most don't need so many pixels either. 60MP put a lot of strain on digital dark rooms while rarely needed. There is a limit to what is useful and sensor/camera manufacturers knows it too. So there should be a limit to the pixels race too.

    Too many pixels will get in the way of other improvements like AF and fps performance, or global electronic shutter (getting rid of the mechanical shutter).
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    I agree with you all the way, Anna. I've decided for myself that 36MP on FF is just about the practical limit for my needs, technique and lenses. But I'm not convinced at all that camera manufacturers will see it that way. They need to keep selling cameras, after all, and I expect the MP race to continue for a while still (albeit at a slower pace).
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    I agree that 60MP is massive overkill for most people at the present time. As stated earlier, lenses will be the weak link, even if your computer can eat the files. Mind you, there will still be amateurs who will pay $5K for the lenses needed to tackle such sensors (just as there are buyers for the Leica 50 Summicron APO).

    IMO the next evolution needs to be in affordable lenses that can tackle the sensors we already have. Forget 36MP, there are still a lot of Nikon and Canon pro lenses that struggle with 22-24MP at the apertures the lenses are marketed on. Any 60 MP DSLR will IMO be two lens generations ahead of what is well supported.

    Everyone was hoping that Leica M lenses would perform flawlessly on the A7R, but this is not the case, not even close. Had it been, 36 MP would have look VERY different on the A7R than the D800E. Letting a Leica 24 3.8 Elmar loose at full potential would have made this abundantly clear, but it is hobbled in the corners. It still seems that Leica has the wide angle lenses, but not the platform. Others have the platform but not the lenses.

    The FE lenses and A7R may end up 'great' when more lenses are rolled out, but something tells me its not quite going to give us a 36 MP 'Leica system' performance. But as the OP says, we have staggering flexibility.

    All said, however, I do still think the A7/R is going to be a game changer with no small part being due to what the OP said. This is a camera that an entrenched user of another system can buy into (like me - EOS and Leica M). Maybe not perfectly, but well. It seems clear now that in order to get great results, many people will need to fill in some weak areas with native lenses (like the very wide lenses). This means, IMO, that Sony need to produce a couple of spectacular primes in the 16-28mm range. Forget speed, go for eye-watering performance right into the corners. My leica wides are not going to cut it. Its good that I bought in not based on amazing resolution (tho that is nice), but based on portability and dynamic range.

    For those who are not obsessive about resolution being perfect everywhere (which should be most photographers, if they have any creative ability at all), the Alphas are a game changer. 50 ZM planar, 24 TS-E, 75 Summarit, 35 Sonnar FE... all in one bag.
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I agree that 60MP is massive overkill for most people at the present time. As stated earlier, lenses will be the weak link, even if your computer can eat the files. Mind you, there will still be amateurs who will pay $5K for the lenses needed to tackle such sensors (just as there are buyers for the Leica 50 Summicron APO).

    IMO the next evolution needs to be in affordable lenses that can tackle the sensors we already have. Forget 36MP, there are still a lot of Nikon and Canon pro lenses that struggle with 22-24MP at the apertures the lenses are marketed on. Any 60 MP DSLR will IMO be two lens generations ahead of what is well supported.

    Everyone was hoping that Leica M lenses would perform flawlessly on the A7R, but this is not the case, not even close. Had it been, 36 MP would have look VERY different on the A7R than the D800E. Letting a Leica 24 3.8 Elmar loose at full potential would have made this abundantly clear, but it is hobbled in the corners. It still seems that Leica has the wide angle lenses, but not the platform. Others have the platform but not the lenses.

    The FE lenses and A7R may end up 'great' when more lenses are rolled out, but something tells me its not quite going to give us a 36 MP 'Leica system' performance. But as the OP says, we have staggering flexibility.

    All said, however, I do still think the A7/R is going to be a game changer with no small part being due to what the OP said. This is a camera that an entrenched user of another system can buy into (like me - EOS and Leica M). Maybe not perfectly, but well. It seems clear now that in order to get great results, many people will need to fill in some weak areas with native lenses (like the very wide lenses). This means, IMO, that Sony need to produce a couple of spectacular primes in the 16-28mm range. Forget speed, go for eye-watering performance right into the corners. My leica wides are not going to cut it. Its good that I bought in not based on amazing resolution (tho that is nice), but based on portability and dynamic range.

    For those who are not obsessive about resolution being perfect everywhere (which should be most photographers, if they have any creative ability at all), the Alphas are a game changer. 50 ZM planar, 24 TS-E, 75 Summarit, 35 Sonnar FE... all in one bag.
    I agree and the native manual focus Zeiss lenses might just be those "eye watering" lenses as you put it.

    As for the M-mount lenses I intended to use them as a stop gap and what I have tends to work well in actual pictures. Some PP is required for the wide angle stuff but it all seems to be fixable for the most part.

    Interesting to me that you mentioned the obsessive nature in which people are judging the A7/r - I AGREE. I don't think that any other camera has been this heavily scrutinized in recent memories. It's been known that many wide angle M-mount lenses didn't play well with mirror less bodies from the Panasonic G1 days. I think PP software has gotten better today and allow many of them to be used with custom lens profiles but for the most part it's a stop gap solution until native lenses are released.

    I have mixed feelings of people writing off the cameras completely for the fault of the seemingly "perfect" lenses that we now know weren't as perfect as we thought but rather had baked in software corrections. It remains that if you plan to adapt to test YOUR kit and not the solely the opinion of others. I have lenses that people find unacceptable that work fine for me but not for others.
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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    …Everyone was hoping that Leica M lenses would perform flawlessly on the A7R, but this is not the case, not even close. Had it been, 36 MP would have look VERY different on the A7R than the D800E. Letting a Leica 24 3.8 Elmar loose at full potential would have made this abundantly clear, but it is hobbled in the corners. It still seems that Leica has the wide angle lenses, but not the platform. Others have the platform but not the lenses…
    I think the problem with most M-mount lens designs is that they're simply not suited for the digital age, at least with current sensor technology. The hoops Leica had to jump through to make their M-lenses work well with their digital bodies are going a bit too far, IMO. They should have done the same thing with the M-line as they did with the R-line: kill it, and start fresh (S-line).

  27. #27
    Super Duper
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Here's my take on this whole "Twilight" notion:

    Canon and Nikon have been entrenched forever. MR echos those sentiments with his personal bias comments. The big two have a user base that was once pretty unshakable. However, like everything else these days, customer loyalty isn't what it used to be.

    Camera sales have tanked in the face of new tech cell phones that most folks now use for everyday snaps. Hardest hit have been the smaller pocket type cameras, and even the mirror-less cams which showed disappointing sales, at least in the USA, which surprised camera marketers. DSLRs are not immune to the new age of image making either.

    Entrenched and complacent things always produce game changing challenges. Canon and Nikon have a huge user base to appease, where ground up companies don't ... so are freer to innovate.

    Witness Epson who ignored Leica's excuses regarding a digital M and produced the RD-1.

    Witness Leica who had the guts to abandon the R system knowing full well they couldn't digitally compete with Canon/Nikon 35mm DSLR juggernaut despite the howls of protest from the R faithful ... instead, they changed the game with the S system ground-up-design dual shutter camera ... and optics that'll hold true through many years of sensor changes and meg increases.

    Now there is this relentless innovation from Sony done at an oblique angle to those from Canon/Nikon (who are walking a tightrope between the past and the future) ... with many warning shots sent over the bow of Canon and Nikon in the past few years. They've abandoned OVF cameras and now are on the cusp of making more converts (when I hear Guy's reaction to the A7R's EVF, it signals that we are a generation or two away from putting OVF on the endangered species list). Luddites will howl, but it is inevitable.

    Early adopters of new things are always impatient ... nothing is perfect right from the get-go ... the A7/A7R is seen as revolutionary but incomplete. Yet it signals a sunrise in image making that a company like Zeiss has to be celebrating. They WILL kick Leica's buttocks in the coming years because they are not bound by appeasing a Leica M user base ... they are free to apply their innovation to new tech and user demands. We'll get our native mount lenses in due time, just like the S system eventually did.

    By then we'll be at 50+ meg A8/A8R and have the lenses that can deliver ... don't want or need 50 meg?... there will be the little brother for you ... like the A7 is now. Sony is smart that way. Bet the A7R will be the big seller for now, but the A7 will come on strong later as all us gear sluts get a second body ... and the general shooting population discovers this new camera ... which, mark my words, WILL be discounted by early to mid 2014.

    - Marc
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    And just to be very clear on Marcs comments I HATED I MEAN HATED the EVF's until this new AR7 and A7. I honestly in my head thinking Im looking through a OVF. It has not even registered i am not. Now thats damn good.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Bet the A7R will be the big seller for now, but the A7 will come on strong later as all us gear sluts get a second body ...

    Caught red handed with my hands in the cookie jar. Decision over
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Yes a lot of people are making the switch now, but not Rock Kenwell.
    His flimsy test between the A7, Canon 5DIII and Leica M is strangly:

    The Sony is a toy from one of the world's leaders in video and audio gear. It's fun to put different lenses on it, but it can't compete with real cameras from Nikon and Canon.
    Not really surprising, he was very dismissive of the Ricoh GR when he tested it. If the truth be known, Sony is causing the other camera manufacturers to loose a lot of sleep.

    Paul

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    interesting...forever the mantra has been treasure and hoard your leica m lenses, not so much the cameras. major appeal of the A7/r is the ability to make use of those lenses on a better body than the M240. Zeiss has quite an opening here

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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    …Zeiss has quite an opening here
    Hmm - perhaps this opening was created intentionally? I wouldn't be surprised...

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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    If Sony is smart, they will learn from all the "Sony A7 fanboys" and get it even better with a8 or a9: fix the "wide angle M" issue, fix the noisy shutter and for heaven sake hire a proper camera designer. Cause this a7 is one ugly box...

  34. #34
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: a7/A7r and the twilight of camera systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by sisoje View Post
    If Sony is smart, they will learn from all the "Sony A7 fanboys" and get it even better with a8 or a9: fix the "wide angle M" issue...
    I think they have no interest whatsoever in doing this (see my previous post). They are building a new system from the ground up, and it makes no sense at all for them to cater to 3rd party legacy glass...

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