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Thread: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

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    Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    I just need two lenses to be happy. I have a long one (90mm) and now need something in the 50 range. I like modern lenses with minimal CA and consistent response across the image. Fast is nice but I have to be realistic about that.

    I was hoping to get the Sony FE55, but the sample images worry me. I see some corner smearing with that lens or maybe I am just hypersensitive.

    I have a gen1 'cron 50R that works well at f4.5 and above but the corners smear below that. A bit limiting. Is the E55R cron better? Anyone have corner samples at wide apertures?

    I like Micro Nikkors, having used the 55/2.8 for digital imaging in the past. I am thinking that might be a nice flexible lens. Anyone tried it on the A7r?

    Open to any suggestion.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    I just need two lenses to be happy. I have a long one (90mm) and now need something in the 50 range. I like modern lenses with minimal CA and consistent response across the image. Fast is nice but I have to be realistic about that.

    I was hoping to get the Sony FE55, but the sample images worry me. I see some corner smearing with that lens or maybe I am just hypersensitive.

    I have a gen1 'cron 50R that works well at f4.5 and above but the corners smear below that. A bit limiting. Is the E55R cron better? Anyone have corner samples at wide apertures?

    I like Micro Nikkors, having used the 55/2.8 for digital imaging in the past. I am thinking that might be a nice flexible lens. Anyone tried it on the A7r?

    Open to any suggestion.
    The samples I have seen from the sony zeiss 55 1.8 have been exceptional. Detail and tonality approaching or at medium format digital quality. These samples were done by Lloyd chambers on his paid subscription site. He was blown away by the test images. So was I. There may be some 50 mm lenses out there that render out of focus areas more smoothly, but for the type of work I do, I would not buy a lens based upon how it renders oof areas. I typically want everything in sharp focus, including the corners.
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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Here a series of crops from test images taken with the Cron-R E55:
















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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    I should add that I focused in the center at f/2.8 and then shot the series from wide open without re-focusing. Based on my experience, edge and corner sharpness can be optimized at f/4-8 if focused at the working aperture (i.e. compensating for field curvature and focus shift as much as possible).

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    The samples I have seen from the sony zeiss 55 1.8 have been exceptional. Detail and tonality approaching or at medium format digital quality. These samples were done by Lloyd chambers on his paid subscription site. He was blown away by the test images. So was I. There may be some 50 mm lenses out there that render out of focus areas more smoothly, but for the type of work I do, I would not buy a lens based upon how it renders oof areas. I typically want everything in sharp focus, including the corners.
    You mean you're relying strictly on Chambers for your benchmark and haven't shot this lens yourself? The only thing Chambers does for me is nudge me in the direction of trying for myself.

    Victor

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    I should add that I focused in the center at f/2.8 and then shot the series from wide open. Based on my experience, edge and corner sharpness can be optimized at f/4-8 if focused at the working aperture.
    So what's the problem with the Leica? I don't own a 50mm lens that shoots sharp edge to edge under f5.6 - nothing! The only lens that may do that is the Otus which I would own if I could find one. If you buy the Sony 55 you had better test carefully and make sure you can return it!!

    Victor

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    And then I'd like to add that I added the Cron-R 50 E55 to my collection primarily for panos and for other situations where excellent corner-to-corner performance at f/5.6-8 and low distortion are useful. Corner performance of my Makro-Planar 50 is not at the same level at these apertures. Plus the cron is much smaller and lighter, despite being built like a tank.

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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    So what's the problem with the Leica? I don't own a 50mm lens that shoots sharp edge to edge under f5.6 - nothing!
    Same here. And no problems with the Cron-R 50 - love the lens! My comment was aimed at the sharpness seen in the right edge crops at f/4 and 5.6. This can be improved upon by carefully focusing at the respective working aperture. Sorry if I wasn't clear...

    The only lens that may do that is the Otus which I would own if I could find one. If you buy the Sony 55 you had better test carefully and make sure you can return it!!
    As stated in the thread specific for this lens, I'm not interested at this point. Will wait for Zeiss to show their hand regarding MF FE glass...
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    My comment was aimed at the sharpness seen in the right edge crops at f/4 and 5.6. This can be improved upon by carefully focusing at the respective working aperture. Sorry if I wasn't clear...
    My feelings regarding anything critical is to use f8. Its not a dirty symbol.... but rather an aperture that gives the best results for critical work. Heck, I normally shoot my Digitars at F11.... I consider them one F/stop +1/3 -1/3 lenses. Just gotta find that sweet aperture.

    Victor
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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    I agree regarding f/8 - it's universally good. But that extra bite you get on the A7R and D800E at f/4-5.6 sure is nice.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Regarding the E55 cron r, corner sharpness is nearly the same with respect to center also full open. What we see in Ron's example is blooming, together with contrast reduction due to vignetting. Ron, did you apply vignetting correction on that image? With backlight from sky, this could worsen the situation.

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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    Regarding the E55 cron r, corner sharpness is nearly the same with respect to center also full open. What we see in Ron's example is blooming, together with contrast reduction due to vignetting. Ron, did you apply vignetting correction on that image? With backlight from sky, this could worsen the situation.
    Thanks for asking! Yes, I corrected for vignetting in order to be able to judge edge and corner detail better.

    Edit: and yes, you can clearly see that the detail is there at f/2, it's just veiled by the blooming. The right edge is really a very high-contrast area of the image (I lifted the shadows somewhat, too). So this really is in many ways a worst-case example. I have only praise for the lens. I think its combination of price, size and performance is hard to beat. And it's built to survive just about anything. Some people say it lacks character, but I find it's perfect for my purposes. Character can be added in post…

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    The Nikkor 50mm/1.2 AIS is performing well on my A7. The lens is decent wide open but becomes really quite good edge to edge by f2.0. I am traveling but can try to post some examples in a couple of days. The lens is small and quite light. Minimum focus at 1.5 ft. The other lens i have gotten really nice results with is the Zeiss 50mm/2 Makro.. I have not taken too many distance shots with it yet -- nor compared it directly with the Nikkor but i do plan to do so in the near future. THe Zeiss is sturdy and well built-- a bit heavier than the Nikkor.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    I just need two lenses to be happy. I have a long one (90mm) and now need something in the 50 range. I like modern lenses with minimal CA and consistent response across the image. Fast is nice but I have to be realistic about that.

    I was hoping to get the Sony FE55, but the sample images worry me. I see some corner smearing with that lens or maybe I am just hypersensitive.

    I have a gen1 'cron 50R that works well at f4.5 and above but the corners smear below that. A bit limiting. Is the E55R cron better? Anyone have corner samples at wide apertures?

    I like Micro Nikkors, having used the 55/2.8 for digital imaging in the past. I am thinking that might be a nice flexible lens. Anyone tried it on the A7r?

    Open to any suggestion.
    What would you use the lens for? The Summicron R 50/2 (v1) for me is great. So is the 55/3.5 Micro Nikkor, so is the Revuenon 50/1.4. The OM 50/1.2 is superlative, can't wax enough lyrics about it. Canon 50/0.95, is great as well. I will have a few 50s in Leica M mount (sent them out for mounting) sometime. They will all do well. Olympus pen F 60/1.5 is fantastic. This is an endless list....

    I also think that the lifetime of the A7R is much much longer than a gnat.

    There is an interesting post here: http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/the-...ne-eoshd-tests
    Last edited by Vivek; 22nd December 2013 at 09:24. Reason: Addition

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Thanks all, and please keep the suggestions coming.

    Ron, kind of you to post the images. it looks as if the E55R Cron is a bit better than the gen 1. This will seem silly, but I also really like its built in hood. Boy would I like to try the new 50 cron asph - just for fun.

    Trouble with the other suggestions is that I live in a small town and cannot find unusual lenses. Means bringing stuff in and I prefer to narrow it down a lot before doing that. Vivek, thanks for all the specific lenses you mention. I would love to try them all. We shoot with very different expectations but we both like the 50 cron. Another vote for that.

    I suppose I should wait and try the FE55 in the flesh. Center rendering does look spectacular.

    I have learned that reviews are not particularly useful because my photo interests are my own. However, this Lloyd guy (I am not a subscriber) did spot the shutter vibration issue when most of the other popular pundits missed it. Good on him. Wonder what his lens reviews are like.
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Thanks all, and please keep the suggestions coming.
    See my post from earlier today with a test shot using the Sony/Zeiss 55mm. I also have had great results with the Leica 50mm Summilux-M. No color casts, smearing, or wonky focus issues.

    Good luck with your search.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Thanks all, and please keep the suggestions coming.

    Ron, kind of you to post the images. it looks as if the E55R Cron is a bit better than the gen 1. This will seem silly, but I also really like its built in hood.
    You are most welcome! And I agree: built-in hoods should be a mandatory feature. Are you listening, Zeiss?

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Just to update, I picked up an FE55 and think I will keep it. No sign of decentering that I can see.

    Renders differently from the Summicron R 50 it replaces in my bag, and a bit mixed in terms of good and bad. For one thing, I am unused to AF and don't much care for it. However, the MF works fine and the balance of factors (lower weight, aperture logging, better corners below f5.6) comes up in the Sony's favor.

    Why do they put these massive plastic hoods onto their lenses? I replaced it with one of the nice rubber flip-out thingies that screws into the filter mount. Takes care of that.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Does it have to have AF, weather-sealing, sharp across the frame, nice oof rendering,? If yes, the FE55 is the only game in town. Avoid m-mount lenses, they are no match for the FE55`s overall performance (I tried the 50 Summilux asph and non asph, ZM 50 Sonnar, 50 Elmar). Considering performance, built quality and versatility, the FE55 is reasonably priced imo.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Just to update, I picked up an FE55 and think I will keep it. No sign of decentering that I can see.

    Renders differently from the Summicron R 50 it replaces in my bag, and a bit mixed in terms of good and bad. For one thing, I am unused to AF and don't much care for it. However, the MF works fine and the balance of factors (lower weight, aperture logging, better corners below f5.6) comes up in the Sony's favor.

    Why do they put these massive plastic hoods onto their lenses? I replaced it with one of the nice rubber flip-out thingies that screws into the filter mount. Takes care of that.

    Dot Line Tele-Wide 49mm Lens Hoods DL-92949 B&H Photo Video
    I always buy screw in metal hoods they are very cheap on eBay and they protect the lens plus I never use front caps. Makes switching lens a breeze . This 55 sounds nice. I might get it in February. I need my Zeiss 25f2 first
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    Does it have to have AF, weather-sealing, sharp across the frame, nice oof rendering,? If yes, the FE55 is the only game in town. Avoid m-mount lenses, they are no match for the FE55`s overall performance (I tried the 50 Summilux asph and non asph, ZM 50 Sonnar, 50 Elmar). Considering performance, built quality and versatility, the FE55 is reasonably priced imo.
    I'd be interested in your findings for the lux non asph and the sonnar as I'm considering one or the other for my A7r.
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    You mean you're relying strictly on Chambers for your benchmark and haven't shot this lens yourself? The only thing Chambers does for me is nudge me in the direction of trying for myself.

    Victor
    Reading comprehension does not seem to be a specialty of yours. Nowhere was that stated in my reference to the test results.
    Lloyd Chambers tends to fault most everything, usually with justification, so if he concludes that a lens is capable of exceptional performance and it is backed up by 100% crops of HD images, then, yes, I will rely upon that to believe that if I can get a good copy of that lens, chances are pretty good that I will be happy with it. Poor performance in a lens may be attributable to poor technique. Great performance cannot be attributable to great technique. That's why I ordered the 55mm Sony Zeiss and see how my copy performs.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    I'm leaning towards a look lens . My thoughts are a Leica 50 cron or summilux, Nikon 50.12 just not sure what I want in a 50 it's not my favorite focal length. I did get the 35FE and ZA 85 1.4 and maybe the old Leica R 60 macro .

    This FE 55 does intrique me though. But I was planning on the 24-70 for PR work so I might get something funky looking.
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Thanks all, and please keep the suggestions coming.


    I have learned that reviews are not particularly useful because my photo interests are my own. However, this Lloyd guy (I am not a subscriber) did spot the shutter vibration issue when most of the other popular pundits missed it. Good on him. Wonder what his lens reviews are like.
    Lloyd Chambers' lens reviews are very thorough and include exceptionally detailed 100% crops at most apertures that should be viewed on a retina iPad or MacBook. The tests generally include field tests. The only problem is that Lloyd tends to fault everything, so if you threw away everything that has "issues", you wouldn't own any camera equipment!
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Lloyd Chambers' lens reviews are very thorough and include exceptionally detailed 100% crops at most apertures that should be viewed on a retina iPad or MacBook. The tests generally include field tests. The only problem is that Lloyd tends to fault everything, so if you threw away everything that has "issues", you wouldn't own any camera equipment!
    Absolutely - and I think he follows a pretty consistent damnation-euphoria-realism pattern in most of his reviews. Once you adjust for that, you can read them for what they're actually worth.

    Edit: and I'd like to add that IMO, they're worth what you pay for them.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    IMO, they're worth what you pay for them.
    Soooo in my case nothing!?!
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post


    Soooo in my case nothing!?!
    Where did you find that coupon, then?
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    What 36MP and the FE55 did to make me feel comfy. Works well for this type of casual shooting.

    The large image is a 4600 pixel crop. The other is 100%. Done with ambient + flash. I sure do wish you could take the shutter up to 1/400 or so with flash.
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    For what it is worth, I am really enjoying the Minolta AF 50/1.4

    Here is a series of snaps from a golf outing with the family. The second photo was shot at f/7, the rest at or near wide open. I don't care much for sharp edge to edge but this one has it when stopped down. More images via the blog link...

    Chad Wadsworth Photography





    Last edited by Show Performance; 24th December 2013 at 21:02.
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    After lengthy tryouts with the Summilux 50 on A7RR, I cannot recommend it without warning. If you shoot at infinity at anything open wider than f:8.0, don't expect sharp corners. Furthermore, the 'Lux will show severe field curvature, and the A7R smears the corner portion of the OOF picture. That makes it a difficult landscape lens to work with at less than, say, f:5.6, and that is not being especially picky either.
    Otherwise, the rendering of the 'Lux on A7R is a joy. But it is earned rather than freely given out.

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Not sure if that's such a problem, not that much landscape shot wider than 5.6? Smearing though is a problem, does it go away when stopped down?
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Not sure if that's such a problem, not that much landscape shot wider than 5.6? Smearing though is a problem, does it go away when stopped down?
    If you already own the lens (as Philippe does), I agree with you, Ben. But I certainly wouldn't lay out the cash for an expensive Leica lens like that which promises excellent performance WO, only to see that promise hobbled by a poorly performing lens-camera combination. There are many far less expensive options that perform brilliantly at f/5.6-8 (e.g. the ZM Planar).

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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    I agree with you at that price level. It does seem to be the camera not the lenses fault though.
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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I agree with you at that price level. It does seem to be the camera not the lenses fault though.
    Ben, I wouldn't speak of a 'fault' here, really. In my view, it is simply an incompatibility. Leica had to invest a great deal (in-camera vignetting and color cast removal as well as oblong microlenses come to mind) and accept a fair few compromises (APS-H sensor size and lack of IR-filter in the M8, IR-contamination due to thin cover glass in later models) to make their lens designs work in the digital age. And even doing away with an OLPF in the case of the M9 was probably a necessity (thinner sensor toppings) rather than anything else. We can't possibly expect any other manufacturer to go to such lengths to accommodate 3rd party lenses that are poorly suited for current sensor technology in the first place.

    That said, I think it's great that M-mount lenses work very well on most NEX-bodies, cropping away most of the problems with their APS-C sensors. As a result, I am happy to use my M-mount glass on these bodies, but I certainly don't expect that level of compatibility of a FF camera from any other vendor than Leica themselves...
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    Re: Help me pick a 50 for the A7r

    Makes sense of course.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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