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Thread: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    I've seen some stellar street photography with the 7 / 7R how is it as a landscape camera? Is it too light for wind ect? I just pulled the trigger on a kit...
    Mike

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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Don't know about wind - have not used the camera on a tripod in windy conditions so far. There are a few niggles (slowest shutter speed of 30s, shutter vibration issues with longer lenses), but IMO the pros of this compact, light-weight kit with its stellar image quality far outweigh the cons for landscape use.

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    This is, IMHO, THE landscape camera. We just need more lenses for it (wides, esp).

    Wind is not an issue any more than it is with a D800. The A7R is lighter, but has a much smaller cross section to catch the wind in the first place.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    I have seen some nice landscape images. So, it will work.

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    I've seen some stellar street photography with the 7 / 7R how is it as a landscape camera? Is it too light for wind ect? I just pulled the trigger on a kit...
    Cancel the order, or use only with circular polarizer to shoot landscapes through car or hotel room windows . She can not be used outdoors at all, behold, indoors only with all windows and doors closed.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Whilst I realise that the A7r can't be used as a landscape camera, I have been breaking all the rules and taking landscape photos with it. Please accept my apologies.

    [IMG]
    DSC00316 by leephotographic, on Flickr[/IMG]

    So sharp, I nearly cut myself posting this.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    A7r, ancient 50mm, handheld, f2, iso 25600. Are there any landscape photography rules I forgot to break? If so apologies, I'll try harder.


    Being serious for a second, I think the main problem at present is lenses that can give the potential this sensor so obviously has. Especially wide angle and even more especially, lenses which don't look like bazookas when mounted on this tiny camera.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    I pulled out my old Galen Rowell Photoflex Chest Pouch. For those of you familiar with that, it came in two sizes; I have the smaller one. I haven't used it since I switched to a better, larger selection of lenses for my old 5D II, almost 5 years ago.

    I put the a7r in there with the Zeiss 35 f/2 eos version. What a joy to hike with a small kit again. Next time I go backpacking, the Alpa just might stay at home...

    It got me thinking: I wonder what the best small and (relatively) light 24mm will be for this camera? Any suggestions?

    Dave

    Oh, and I too think this will prove to be a fantastic landscape camera.
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?



    The Apo Summicron 90 mm f:2 Asph. is a stellar lens, and works perfectly on the A7r. This was ISO 640, 1/250 sec f:2, handheld



    Four shots with the 90AA, ISO 1600, 1/250 sec f:2, handheld. Stitched vertically (for wider FOV. not for more Pixels...)



    Single shot @ ISO 1000, 1/500 sec handheld, f:5.6 with the 90AA

    The 90AA on A7r is comparable to the Monochrom, when it comes to detail and microcontrast.

    With my wide angles, I am not happy on the A7r. Since I shoot 90% B&W landscapes, I can wait until a native wide angle lens from Zeiss Comes (ordered the 24-70 as a -probably- preliminary solution).

    Carsten
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by C_R View Post

    I can wait until a native wide angle lens from Zeiss Comes (ordered the 24-70 as a -probably- preliminary solution).

    Carsten
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    Yep, me too
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Carsten, you raise an issue that is interesting: B&W on the A7R vs the Monochrom.

    I recall Mr Chambers doing some tests and concluding that the D800 was higher in resolution and the better bet, but in looking over the A7R files vs the Monochrom shots I have, I don't think it is as simple as that.

    The Monochrom shots have a different tonality that really does look more beautiful IMO. 1:1 resolution is appreciably higher with the Leica, but there are more pixels with the A7R. I'm gonna guess and say the A7R edges it on centre with very large prints (though sheer pixel count), but the Monochrom is going to come out ahead at the edges, despite the pixel deficit. Bottom line: the Monochrom is still right up there at the top of the pile when it comes to detail, but the files have a much more attractive tonality. If you are not concerned by the A7R files looking like all other colour cams, just with more detail, its a no brainer. I had hoped to sell my Monochrom to fund a Sony A7/R system, but I am not so sure I can part with the MM.

    I've attached a couple of 100% samples from both. A7R from centre (50 ZM planar, f5, ISO 500) and MM from left edge (28 Elmarit asph, f10 or so). You're totally spoilt with both. The A7R resolves all the little stones and bits of gravel in the concrete block as well as the full leap structure of whatever is in the bed and the MM resolves the individual bricks and little side branches in the rooftop antennae (click to see full sized).

    Just waiting on those wides for the A7R: Hurry up Sony, Zeiss and third party manufacturers!
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    There is another (possible) issue with the a7/a7r cameras and B&W shooting...

    The compressed RAW file effectively reduces the bit depth from 14 bits to something smaller (10 bits approximately?). This could prove to be disastrous for B&W shooting in situations where any kind of filtration is needed or desired.

    I haven't tried that out yet, but I have had problems with images from an uncompressed RAW file from the a900 and posterization with B&W filtration. I suspect that it will be far more susceptible on a compressed RAW file.

    I doubt it will be noticeably different straight out as a B&W conversion, but applying some filtration to simulate a red filter with B&W film may show a marked difference.

    At that point, I suspect that nothing will be the equivalent of the MM (or the non-Bayer filter MF backs).


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Mine is used exclusively as a Landscape camera on a tripod. These were both on very windy days on exposed peninsulas. B&W with the Sony 55 1.8Fe and the colour with Minolta 90/4 M
    David
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hausen View Post
    Mine is used exclusively as a Landscape camera on a tripod. These were both on very windy days on exposed peninsulas. B&W with the Sony 55 1.8Fe and the colour with Minolta 90/4 M
    Many thanks for sharing these images, David - lovely! I'm curious what tripod and head you are using. I'll be doing some shooting in windy places soon, and am wondering how light of a tripod I can get away with. In my shooting with the A7R, I've so far been alternating between my heaviest (RRS TVC-33) and my lightest (Manfrotto 190CXPRO4) tripod, and I've seen surprisingly little difference in terms of vibration blur. But all my shooting with the A7R has been in quite calm conditions...

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Accidently I do shoot landscapes as well with this camera.

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Many thanks for sharing these images, David - lovely! I'm curious what tripod and head you are using. I'll be doing some shooting in windy places soon, and am wondering how light of a tripod I can get away with. In my shooting with the A7R, I've so far been alternating between my heaviest (RRS TVC-33) and my lightest (Manfrotto 190CXPRO4) tripod, and I've seen surprisingly little difference in terms of vibration blur. But all my shooting with the A7R has been in quite calm conditions...
    Hang your camera under the center column.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Reminds me of the joke I heard about the Nikon shooter, who bought an A7R for landscapes. He always took his 800E with him, which he hung from his tripod to ensure that the A7R was steady... Nettar
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Good one!

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Pretty sure my tripod is the MePhoto travel tripod. Perfect size for A7r and if it is really bad I hang my bag from centre column The B&W image above was straight into the wind.
    David
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    A7r, ancient 50mm, handheld, f2, iso 25600. Are there any landscape photography rules I forgot to break? If so apologies, I'll try harder.


    Being serious for a second, I think the main problem at present is lenses that can give the potential this sensor so obviously has. Especially wide angle and even more especially, lenses which don't look like bazookas when mounted on this tiny camera.
    Holy mother of high ISO ... 25,600? Great shot!

    I think we are being transported to a parallel universe of shooting that threatens to shred current beliefs of the old order.

    To think Ben, this is just the start ... lenses will start popping up like crazy as the ripples from the splash this camera is making reach outward like a Tsunami.

    Where there is demand, there is ALWAYS something to fill it.

    - Marc
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    @ Dave, which wrote:

    It got me thinking: I wonder what the best small and (relatively) light 24mm will be for this camera? Any suggestions?
    Olympus OM 24/2.8. I have one; it's excellent, and that's what I will be using for this FL on the A7 (when I get one!).
    Kit Laughlin, www.StretchTherapy.net/, www.KitLaughlin.com/bodypress/
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    There is another (possible) issue with the a7/a7r cameras and B&W shooting...

    The compressed RAW file effectively reduces the bit depth from 14 bits to something smaller (10 bits approximately?). This could prove to be disastrous for B&W shooting in situations where any kind of filtration is needed or desired.

    I haven't tried that out yet, but I have had problems with images from an uncompressed RAW file from the a900 and posterization with B&W filtration. I suspect that it will be far more susceptible on a compressed RAW file.

    I doubt it will be noticeably different straight out as a B&W conversion, but applying some filtration to simulate a red filter with B&W film may show a marked difference.

    At that point, I suspect that nothing will be the equivalent of the MM (or the non-Bayer filter MF backs).


    ---Michael
    To avoid the possibility of posterization or other artifacts, than often appears when using digital filtering in BW conversion, just use glass filters as you would do with the MM.
    (obviously selecting in camera or in the raw converter the WB applying to the actual light conditions, and not auto)

    Sergio

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    To avoid the possibility of posterization or other artifacts, than often appears when using digital filtering in BW conversion, just use glass filters as you would do with the MM.
    (obviously selecting in camera or in the raw converter the WB applying to the actual light conditions, and not auto)

    Sergio
    Sergio,

    That may work somewhat, but do not think it will work very well. If you put a red filter on the camera, the majority of the non-red pixels will have almost no value to them, and will therefore fall into a narrow range of values that will cause posterization as well. At that point, The non-red values are possibly usefully providing some dithering into the red channel for a B&W conversion, which may be handy.

    I should be able to try some out this weekend to compare. I'll include shots from the a900 and a7r with and without filtration to see what happens.

    I still need to do M lens comparisons, but something has to wait.

    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    Sergio,

    That may work somewhat, but do not think it will work very well. If you put a red filter on the camera, the majority of the non-red pixels will have almost no value to them, and will therefore fall into a narrow range of values that will cause posterization as well. At that point, The non-red values are possibly usefully providing some dithering into the red channel for a B&W conversion, which may be handy.

    I should be able to try some out this weekend to compare. I'll include shots from the a900 and a7r with and without filtration to see what happens.

    I still need to do M lens comparisons, but something has to wait.

    ---Michael
    Michael, waiting for your results.


    _DSC0585 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr


    _DSC0585bw by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    (I get no trace of artifacts-you'll have to work only on luminance sliders)

    Sergio
    Last edited by sergio lovisolo; 27th December 2013 at 14:07.

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Sergio,

    Excellent... two questions...

    1. What filter is that in the top? Looks like an orange to me?

    2. What did you do to convert to grayscale? Did you 'convert to grayscale' or did you go through the B&W conversion (with the filter sliders), or possibly convert to Lab and then drop the ab?

    There is one clear advantage to using the filter on the camera; you gain the exposure in the camera to bring it up to ideal with the filter on the camera, and when using color filter sliders in PS or other apps, all you have the ability to do is subtract the values downward, and this moves you toward the bottom of the scale in some cases (in particular with red filtration and the B values).

    ---Michael
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    Sergio,

    Excellent... two questions...

    1. What filter is that in the top? Looks like an orange to me?

    2. What did you do to convert to grayscale? Did you 'convert to grayscale' or did you go through the B&W conversion (with the filter sliders), or possibly convert to Lab and then drop the ab?

    There is one clear advantage to using the filter on the camera; you gain the exposure in the camera to bring it up to ideal with the filter on the camera, and when using color filter sliders in PS or other apps, all you have the ability to do is subtract the values downward, and this moves you toward the bottom of the scale in some cases (in particular with red filtration and the B values).

    ---Michael
    1.orange zeiss 5x

    2. Adobe Camera Raw convert to grayscale without touching filter sliders. (that can probably be slightly used with lighter filters). The file appears to be essentially monochromatic. This procedure eliminates also the halos in the transitions between darker and highlight zones that appear using filter sliders.

    I noticed before that bw conversions in artificial light of very low temp seem to be much "richer".

    Sergio

    Sergio

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    wuffstuff

    What lens were you using on your landscape image, please?

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Beni
    What is the "ancient lens" you were using please?

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    A7r, ancient 50mm, handheld, f2, iso 25600. Are there any landscape photography rules I forgot to break? If so apologies, I'll try harder.


    Being serious for a second, I think the main problem at present is lenses that can give the potential this sensor so obviously has. Especially wide angle and even more especially, lenses which don't look like bazookas when mounted on this tiny camera.
    Beni
    What is the "ancient lens" you were using please?

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Pentax Super Takumar 50mm f1.4. 50 years old. Ancient by my standards..
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post

    Olympus OM 24/2.8. I have one; it's excellent, and that's what I will be using for this FL on the A7 (when I get one!).
    It is a cheap and lowly lens, and too slow. But until I can get the FE 24mm f/2.0 I am having to make do; I find it much better than any of my M mount lenses even - 28 s or 35s. Here is a shot, but on the A7r and linked to the full rez so its flaws may be pointed out.


    _DSC1074 by gdi2003, on Flickr
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by GDI View Post
    It is a cheap and lowly lens, and too slow. But until I can get the FE 24mm f/2.0 I am having to make do; I find it much better than any of my M mount lenses even - 28 s or 35s. Here is a shot, but on the A7r and linked to the full rez so its flaws may be pointed out.
    It is not too slow unless you would use the f2 lens wide open. The advantage of a fast lens is for "auto", SLR/DSLRs. Not for stopped down metering cams like the A7R.

    If you consider the CA to be the biggest issue, make sure that you mask all the shiny bits inside the adapter. The simple CA after that can be easily taken care of in the post.

    I think the 24/2.8 is a superb and compact lens.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It is not too slow unless you would use the f2 lens wide open. The advantage of a fast lens is for "auto", SLR/DSLRs. Not for stopped down metering cams like the A7R.

    If you consider the CA to be the biggest issue, make sure that you mask all the shiny bits inside the adapter. The simple CA after that can be easily taken care of in the post.

    I think the 24/2.8 is a superb and compact lens.
    I was kinda joking about slow, I find the A7r great for stopped down use. i was thinking my CA was just a lens issue - but you think it may be the adapter? I would think that would affect flare more.

    thanks

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Got it.

    If the shiny surface is uniform then it is just flare or lowered contrast (that the 24/2.8 suffers from on its own). It is not the adapter but the lens' bayonet mount itself that is not uniform and is a shiny mirror and is seen by the sensor. Just look at the rear of the lens with the adapter.

    Simplest solution is to put a thin black rubber gasket of appropriate dimension from a plumbing supply to mask that. Applies to all adapted lenses. Just make sure that the gasket is washed with soap and water and dried well before using it.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Some of my C/Y Zeiss lenses with a mount with a bigger shiny surface, suffer from these flare problems, you describe, Vivek.
    My Zeiss Planar 100/2 is not usable right now, still have to find a ring for it. Did not really search yet.

    FD lenses have no chrome/silver reflecting, because they are completly covered by the outside mounting of the adapter. That is why they fare so well on the A7's
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Some of my C/Y Zeiss lenses with a mount with a bigger shiny surface, suffer from these flare problems, you describe, Vivek.
    My Zeiss Planar 100/2 is not usable right now, still have to find a ring for it. Did not really search yet.

    FD lenses have no chrome/silver reflecting, but are completly covered by the outside mounting of the adapter. That is why they fare so well on the A7's
    Hornbach has them Michiel.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Holy purple fringing Batman...

    My Zeiss 35 ZE w/ metabones III. LR does a good job removing it but wow. The 5D II didn't show any of this. I'm glad I placed an order for the 35mm FE lens.

    Dave





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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    This is for post # 36
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Got it.

    If the shiny surface is uniform then it is just flare or lowered contrast (that the 24/2.8 suffers from on its own). It is not the adapter but the lens' bayonet mount itself that is not uniform and is a shiny mirror and is seen by the sensor. Just look at the rear of the lens with the adapter.

    Simplest solution is to put a thin black rubber gasket of appropriate dimension from a plumbing supply to mask that. Applies to all adapted lenses. Just make sure that the gasket is washed with soap and water and dried well before using it.
    Ah, thanks - are there any example photos you could point me to?

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Holy purple fringing Batman...

    My Zeiss 35 ZE w/ metabones III. LR does a good job removing it but wow. The 5D II didn't show any of this.
    Dave

    [
    Check out post #34.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by GDI View Post
    Ah, thanks - are there any example photos you could point me to?
    Hey, if I were to do that will be pay per view!

    You can check it out on your own.

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hey, if I were to do that will be pay per view!

    You can check it out on your own.

    ?? I meant any examples of this plumbing gasket adapter fix - is this glued inside the adapter, slipped over the adapter barrel for "safe coupling", or... ?
    ( I have plenty of CA examples. )

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    wuffstuff

    What lens were you using on your landscape image, please?
    The Sony Zeiss 55/1.8FE. A real quality lens. Later images are much better than the image shown.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    A7r and 55/1.8FE, handheld.

    Photo of deepest, darkest Devon, looking towards Dartmoor. The original, full size, image is extremely sharp and detailed.

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by wuffstuff View Post
    A7r and 55/1.8FE, handheld.

    Photo of deepest, darkest Devon, looking towards Dartmoor. The original, full size, image is extremely sharp and detailed.

    Very nice - would you be opposed to posting a link to the full size image?

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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by GDI View Post
    Very nice - would you be opposed to posting a link to the full size image?
    Thanks for your interest.

    This, and other images from yesterday's shoot are on my website Lee Photographic. They are in the gallery marked Stockleigh Pomeroy - all taken with the A7r and 55/1.8FE. There is a mix of landscape and portrait in that gallery. The images do give a good idea of how the camera performs in a difficult shooting situation.
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Thanks - nice shots...
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    I wanted to wait until we had the 7r for awhile before posting.

    Got the body 12/23 and quickly found that Sandy wasn't please using her Canon lenses with it (purely personal preference) and quickly order the 55 1.8.

    Seeing as how we've been in the Jackson Hole area for almost a month now shooting landscape and wildlife and the past week using the 7r I feel I can answer the question. While not being able to speak directly for the 7 I can say without a doubt the 7r is one hell of a landscape camera provided you give it the proper lenses it deserves. I've posted images on the 7/7r thread showing both landscape and wildlife.

    A little late in joining the discussion hopes it helps.



    Don

    Forgot to add that the wonderful samples above prove my point on how well suited the camera is.
    Last edited by Don Libby; 4th January 2014 at 19:33. Reason: Too many thumbs
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    Re: Sony 7/7R as a landscape camera?

    Steve, I really liked the Stockleigh Pomeroy gallery. Thank you.
    Kit Laughlin, www.StretchTherapy.net/, www.KitLaughlin.com/bodypress/
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