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Thread: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

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    Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Now that you have used them for a while, which one would you choose if you could have only one camera?
    It depends on what one is doing, granted, and I am printing (100x60cm) large so that the A7R looks like a no-brainer.
    Still, the price of the A7 is falling while the A7R stay firm for the moment, making the A7 a quite attractive proposition.
    Coming from NEX-5/C3 I am not too worried about pixel density and shooting style.
    Thanks

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Coming from the NEX-5R to the A7R the thing that astounds me is the level of detail 36mp yields, with a good sharp lens I managed a crop that looked tack sharp from a 55mm lens that could have been taken with a 200-300mm lens on the 5R. I use manual focussing so the lack of PDAF is not an issue. Also I don't have wide RF glass so smearing isnt a problem.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by kienchil View Post
    Coming from the NEX-5R to the A7R the thing that astounds me is the level of detail 36mp yields, with a good sharp lens I managed a crop that looked tack sharp from a 55mm lens that could have been taken with a 200-300mm lens on the 5R. I use manual focussing so the lack of PDAF is not an issue. Also I don't have wide RF glass so smearing isnt a problem.
    Now, just imagine what level of detail a 200-300mm lens on the A7R would give you?
    Of course, unless shutter shock ruins it.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    If you are printing to 100cm, I can only recommend the A7R. The detail is really tremendous. For all other purposes than huge prints, the A7 is the better buy. I've got both and am using the A7 exclusively at the moment because I know the output won't be very large.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Now, just imagine what level of detail a 200-300mm lens on the A7R would give you?
    Of course, unless shutter shock ruins it.
    Pretty sure everyone has got the message by now is there really a need for the obsessive-compulsive, broken record repetition regarding shutter shock?

    - Marc
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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    If you are printing to 100cm, I can only recommend the A7R. The detail is really tremendous. For all other purposes than huge prints, the A7 is the better buy. I've got both and am using the A7 exclusively at the moment because I know the output won't be very large.
    Or cropping … and don't forget the ability to do PC work in post with more robust resolution. Oh, and IF the two cameras produce the same levels ISO performance, effects of A7R noise will appear less apparent at any given print size because of the initial file size would require a reduction to match the A7 file.

    I've already noticed all of the above when comparing A99 24 meg images and A7R 36 meg images using the same A mount lens.

    My question is …

    Are the two A7/A7R cameras equal in ISO performance? If so, the A7 would be one heck of a bargain for most normal photography.

    - Marc

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Pretty sure everyone has got the message by now … is there really a need for the obsessive-compulsive, broken record repetition regarding shutter shock?

    - Marc

    What's your problem? Now you object to joking around a little?

    Leica User Forum - Einzelnen Beitrag anzeigen - The Sony A7 thread [Merged]
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    If so, the A7 would be one heck of a bargain for most normal photography.
    Precisely what I am trying to find out. From the one hand, I am usually rather conservative wrt the state of the art. From the other hand, I have had some quite acceptable large prints from a NEX-5 with Durst Lambda. On the third hand (yes), I usually more eager to spend on glass...
    So big dilemma.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Or cropping … and don't forget the ability to do PC work in post with more robust resolution. Oh, and IF the two cameras produce the same levels ISO performance, effects of A7R noise will appear less apparent at any given print size because of the initial file size would require a reduction to match the A7 file.

    I've already noticed all of the above when comparing A99 24 meg images and A7R 36 meg images using the same A mount lens.

    My question is …

    Are the two A7/A7R cameras equal in ISO performance? If so, the A7 would be one heck of a bargain for most normal photography.

    - Marc
    Tough call Marc I shot all the runway stuff last week at ISO 1250 on the A7 and it's very clean even with in camera jpegs. Yesterday I shot the A7r in a bar and it maybe even better. I'll have to run a side by side but they both are very clean high ISO cams. Although I would never shoot anything over 3200. There I would be pulling lights out. LOL

    Bottom line I am impressed. I'm also extremely impressed with the A7r and detail I'm getting. It's in that sacred territory called MF.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    On which one to buy. It's a tough call and even having both I can't say for certain one is better than the other. Here it may come down to the differences between them and your budget. I'm glad I got them both and not 2 of one or the other. Worst case you buy one don't like it you can turn it since right now they are very popular. But for me I went A7r as the main and A7 for different applications . This week doing landscape the A7 sits it out but last week the A7 was my main tool. Comes down to what your doing. At least for me it does.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    I had been going back and forth betweent A7 and EM1 to add to my gH3 (which gets used mostly for video). Truth be told I shot my album cover using a GM1 but that is anything but "printing large" as it is for CD . I ended ip using an EM1 for about an hour and just didn't end up in happy land. For my stuff, which ranges from abstract "artsy" shots to events to street, I just wasn't getting any advantage over the GH3 and GM1 wrt iq, and I prefer the ergos of the GH3 over the EM1. The IBIS of the Oly is really the only killer feature over the others for my hands and use. The reason for the Sony interest is that I know I would get a bump in IQ, and not have to pull out my wife's 6D to get there - though looks like the A7 might outdo the Canon, especially the 7R.

    Largest I've oriented I've printed in the past was about 24x36" and those were more on the street side and I got away with a dog p&s for some of them. I shoot a lot of low light/dark and I don't mind noise if it looks like grain, so being able to go crazy high can be a blessing. I keep leaning towards the 7 for lower pice and a bit more usability as a "street/fast shooting" tool.

    Where are the A7s dropping in price? Also if you had to start with only one lens, what would you pick? I don't have legacy glass other than some L lenses but I don't want to do big/heavy. The current zoom gets mixed reviews. Last night I did a walkabout shooting blithe 35 and 55 and I can live with either. I don't necessarily see best at any particular focal length.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    It sounds crazy but for the extra 300 dollars with the A7 the kit lens is a no brainer. Its actually one of the best kit lenses I have used. It actually kept up pretty close to my Zeiss 35 F2 lens sure it lack a little detail like the Zeiss puts out but for the money its really nice
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    It sounds crazy but for the extra 300 dollars with the A7 the kit lens is a no brainer. Its actually one of the best kit lenses I have used. It actually kept up pretty close to my Zeiss 35 F2 lens sure it lack a little detail like the Zeiss puts out but for the money its really nice
    That's what I was thinkin, and I like the flexibility of the zoom for much of the stuff I do. I guess I let my "no 3.-5/6.3 kit zoom" mentality get in the way. I should take a lesson from the GM1 of all things. That tiny kit zoom is way better than it has a right to be. Thanks for the input. GAS continues

    Btw, have I mentioned how much more enjoyable this community is than dpr? I'm amazed at the cranky idiocy that continually fuels that place. Getdpi is a breath of fresh air, and I pointed a friend from another (unrelated) board here when he posted a Leica question.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    I am quite happy with the Oly E-M1 but found that using my Leica R and Nikkor lenses on the smaller format wasn't as rewarding as I'd hoped.

    I chose to buy the A7 as I feel the sensor is more forgiving with these older lenses, and buying it from a vendor who split up an A7 kit to sell the zoom lens (which I'd never use) brought the price for the body down to $1400. I don't make gigunda prints, I'm sure that 24Mpixels will do the job handily.

    Just waiting for the mount adapters to arrive now...

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    I think the A7 and R are close enough on noise that other factors are more prevalent, like:

    Electronic first curtain
    Quieter and less 'clacky'
    Faster flash synch
    Significantly cheaper

    Cropping heavily after capture is generally not something I do much of, but YMMV. If I am doing so it would be more in the context of work that will be seen on the web or in small prints, where most of the time, resolution is not a big issue and I could crop away on 24 and still make great print/web images.

    I bought both because I wanted a spare and the best of each, but think for most people under most circumstances, the A7 is the better buy. Lots of people want X camera to do Y but don't actually end up making those prints for real.... its a bit of a dream. After all, this is the basis for a lot of sales pitches! The truth is, the regular A7 is capable of stunning prints and is a rare few people whose work really will warrant the 36MP camera. That might not be a popular opinion on a forum which is very gear orientated (and which I love), but I think its one worth pushing. I think Sony was much more logical than buyers when they expect the A7 to outsell the A7R. What they got right was the reality of the vast majority of real world usage, but they got wrong what inspires people to buy which model.

    At the end of the day they're both great and its pretty difficult to go wrong unless you know that you will regularly make very large prints and buy the regular A7.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    At the end of the day they're both great and its pretty difficult to go wrong unless you know that you will regularly make very large prints and buy the regular A7.
    Thanks everybody, I think this sums it up pretty well.

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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    What's your problem? Now you object to joking around a little?

    Leica User Forum - Einzelnen Beitrag anzeigen - The Sony A7 thread [Merged]
    No problem. Not worth anymore bandwidth.

    Let's take pictures.

    - Marc
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    Re: Advice from those who own both A7 and A7R

    First of all, many thanks for the precious information and great images !

    I am also considering an A7 or A7r in addition to my medium format gear.

    I used to have a D3x next to the Alpa for its versatility and quality. It was a great addition: a pleasure to use, very clean files, very good dynamic range, better colors than my former Canon 5D2. I sold it due to its size and possibly I asked too much in terms of colors when comparing with MF. I miss it now and dream a Sony could bring the same quality in a much smaller package.

    I will shoot mainly handheld, with a 50mm or longer lenses, no wide.

    If the quality of the A7 is similar to the D3x’s, in terms of color and definition, I can probably forget the A7R.
    I wouldn’t go for the A7R for the extra pixels but quite certainly for better colors (depth, transition, accuracy) and better pixel-lever detail (I like clean pixels without artificial sharpening, I care less about the number of pixels).
    I understand that there is no major gap in character between both cameras, but I am ready for extra efforts to get the 7R if the nuances result in more pleasure with the files (again, apart from pixel count, but colors, transition, accuracy, textures, natural looking).
    I will consider the cost difference and extra efforts of usage in a next phase, for now I am more looking for your pure qualitative feedback.

    Thank you for your help !


    -----------------------
    EDIT : please don't reply ... in the meanwhile I went for an A7R and a 55/1,8 FE
    Statistically when screening the images in different forums, I was more often impressed by the A7R. Lots of factors on top of the camera, for sure.
    Last edited by OliverM; 24th January 2014 at 05:03.

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