DPreview gives A7 Silver Award

[Michiel Schierbeek]

The point is that FOR WHAT IT IS the EM1 is nearly perfect, it's fast, excellent AF, better EVF than the Sony, fantastic IBIS lots of excellent native lenses .
The A7 on the other hand has a clunky shutter, is compromised badly with wide angle third party lenses, has dreadful battery life, only 3 native lenses and the build quality is not a patch on the Olympus. Sure, the files are bigger and it's full frame. . . . And it offers lots of hope for the future.

That is exactly the point; there should be different stages/leagues to compare cameras. How can you compare a half frame to a full frame camera.
It is a different league all together. It is as easy to hammer on all the disadvantages as it is to hammer on the advantages. How about high ISO performance, dynamic range of the A7? It should be compared to a FF Leica. Pricewise it is a no brainer.
Especially since we know how long the life circle of a camera really is these days. You end up with a closet full of mechanical beautiful but digital outdated museumpieces.
All the imperfect cameras I bought till now still work, and I used them extensivly, not in war zones, but the way most people use there cameras on this forum.

Actually I don't really know because I have a A7r and since I have the batterygrip I never have to worry about battery life. Even after every extensive outing only one battery is empty, so it is not as dreadfull as you stated. Mind you, these are big files to handle.

But I quess I am one of those poor souls who belong to a fast growing niche, who is happy with all the SLR wides he can put on it, and doesn't have to pay €6300,-- for a body with no viewfinder.

The future is very near, we will see how many native lenses there will be by the end of the year......

DPreview has never been a forerunner in recognising groundbraking cameras. I remember how long you had to wait for reviews of Olympus cameras if they ever reviewed them at all.
The same here, they are rather late again and why start with the A7 instead of the A7r?
The Nikon Df has been reviewed already weeks ago

 

[peterb]

Looks 10 Dance 3 (A Chorus Line in reverse)

 

[jonoslack]

That is exactly the point; there should be different stages/leagues to compare cameras. How can you compare a half frame to a full frame camera.

I couldn't agree more Michiel - and dPreview makes it pretty clear that you shouldn't compare results from cameras in different classes - their very words are:

Scoring is relative only to the other cameras in the same category.​

Clearly the E-M1 and the A7 are not in the same category

I suspect that they will still give the A7r a silver award - but with a higher score, for the same reasons.

However - and worth noting - not many cameras score 80% on dPreview - whatever their award.

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

Looks 10 Dance 3 (A Chorus Line in reverse)

Oh, does it?
One chorus line evokes the other

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

I couldn't agree more Michiel - and dPreview makes it pretty clear that you shouldn't compare results from cameras in different classes - their very words are:

Scoring is relative only to the other cameras in the same category.​

.

They do but we don't always
(big coloured letters, I could hardly read them )

 

[jonoslack]

They do but we don't always
(big coloured letters, I could hardly read them )

I like big coloured letters . you're quite right, and IMHO that's where Louis went wrong.

Mind you - all that being said and done, I'm trying to decide whether my AF future is with an A7 or an E-M1 - but my personal likes and dislikes are just that (personal and mine )

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay let me get pissy for a second a reviewer is just that a person that does not put his career on the line in the trenches. I just put 14 thousand images on A7 that depended on AF and speed to get a big job done in just a few days. It was limited by a A lens no less a 70-200 that depended on a sony A adapter just to make the connection which immediately slows it down than put it in crop mode and even worse shoot the hardest AF capabilities there is with continuous focus than go sell them online. Now that's a statement of putting it in the worst conditions possible and coming out nailing the job and earning 5 times worth the rig already . Here is my answer to these reviewers . Do something worthy than tell me it does not work instead of shooting a few frames. Than a week later turn the A7 to a avid Leica M shooter for 2 solid days and he orders it and returning his M240. Guess it must really suck than. Stop reading the **** folks and worse actually believing it

 

[Guy Mancuso]

And yes I'm a little pissy just drove a solid 12 hours to get home from Yosemite and had 5 hours sleep but I'm sick of people and crap reviews when they have nothing on the line and stupid opinions and never put these things through a real shooting situation and you actually take Dp review serious on top of that. Let's get real folks your reading too much BS

 

[W.Utsch]

Luv you Guy! The best.....

 

[D&A]

And yes I'm a little pissy just drove a solid 12 hours to get home from Yosemite and had 5 hours sleep but I'm sick of people and crap reviews when they have nothing on the line and stupid opinions and never put these things through a real shooting situation and you actually take Dp review serious on top of that. Let's get real folks your reading too much BS

Guy, in the founding days of Dpreview (1999) when I among others became one of it's earliest members, many were pro's who contributed. We used to get irked to say the least, when we took our time posting our findings about the deficiency of certain cameras or lenses when put on the line, they couldn't pass muster. Either the Af couldn't keep up, or would be inaccurate or certain lenses simply didn't perform well enough on digital bodies. The hobbyists or amateurs (nothing wrong with that), denounced any observation of ours they didn't observe or experience in their causal form of shooting and simply dismissed these findings as "made-up".

Of course they weren't shooting their camera under the rigorous demands that were requiredat the time. My point is exactly what you expressed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when one has the bully pulpit, like a test published on a well known website, their published findings has to be based on factual info and rigorous testing. My 2 cents.

Dave (D&A)

 

[Godfrey]

And yes I'm a little pissy just drove a solid 12 hours to get home from Yosemite and had 5 hours sleep but I'm sick of people and crap reviews when they have nothing on the line and stupid opinions and never put these things through a real shooting situation and you actually take Dp review serious on top of that. Let's get real folks your reading too much BS

They are just entertainment...

I've had precious little time to shoot with it yet, but thus far the A7 + Leica R 50 and 90 have produced some absolutely lovely results. The camera is a little clunky, but configured for my needs it works well.

Compared to the E-M1, it's crude and rude. And the mFT lenses are superb too. Were I a rational person, I'd have stopped there.

But for me, the A7 is all about that lovely sensor letting my beloved old Leicaflex SL lenses work as they ought to with a digital body. Took me forty years to collect these vintage Leica lenses — I love how they image, I'll put up with the A7's clunkyness to enjoy the lenses...

Onwards!

G

 

[peterb]

The E-M1 is amazing because of the E-M5 (and P's) that Olympus built and were reviewed before it.

The Fuji XE-2 and X100s (and apparently the soon-to-be-announced XT-1) is (and will be) amazing because of the X-E1, X100 and X-1Pro that Fuji built and were reviewed before it.

The RX1 is amazing because of the A900, A99 et. al. that Sony built and were reviewed before it.

The Leica M240 is amazing because of the M9, M8.2 and M8 that Leitz built and were reviewed before it.

The Nikon DF, D610 and D800 are amazing because of D4, D4s, D3s, D3x, D700 and D600 that Nikon built and were reviewed before it.

And the Sony A8 and A8r will be amazing because of the A7 and A7r which Sony built and are now going through their teething period. Some love it as is. Some see room for improvement. Despite the niggles of DPR, these cameras are already amazing for having broken barriers that until this point seemed unattainable: FF dslrs in a film-era size SLR-like packages. (Even Leica for years whined how impossible it was to make a Digital M...until they achieved it!)

No camera is without its faults. But it's because of faults that the next iterations are so much better.

 

[k-hawinkler]

I like both very much, i.e. E-M1 and A7R, as complementary tools.
Hopefully soon IBIS will show up in an A7R follow on camera.
Together with a better shutter that camera would deserve a Gold Award.

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

Okay let me get pissy for a second a reviewer is just that a person that does not put his career on the line in the trenches. I just put 14 thousand images on A7 that depended on AF and speed to get a big job done in just a few days. It was limited by a A lens no less a 70-200 that depended on a sony A adapter just to make the connection which immediately slows it down than put it in crop mode and even worse shoot the hardest AF capabilities there is with continuous focus than go sell them online. Now that's a statement of putting it in the worst conditions possible and coming out nailing the job and earning 5 times worth the rig already . Here is my answer to these reviewers . Do something worthy than tell me it does not work instead of shooting a few frames. Than a week later turn the A7 to a avid Leica M shooter for 2 solid days and he orders it and returning his M240. Guess it must really suck than. Stop reading the **** folks and worse actually believing it

Good to hear it worked out so well for you! Mine has been payd for fast enough and more is going to happen soon.
I like these A7 cameras but this does not mean there is nothing else out there.
Best photographic thing I ever had, but the I never went the big format road.
BTW Guy don't forget to take your breaks when driving for 12 solid hours

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I was half joking of course but the reality is its a great camera with a couple faults but let's admit its a great step in the right direction for Sony and others maybe start paying attention more. gold , Silver it really does not matter and yes a firmware update on both models certainly would improve it. Than again don't we say the same thing in every brand/ model made. Of course we do and til this day nothing is perfect. Heck I would be richer by a large margin if the DMR had 24 or more pixels. Lol

The good news is the price versus the output and no one graded them on that most important feature for 1700 dollars it's one heck of a camera and frankly almost disposable in a way compared to many others. Instead of giving them a silver I would myself given them a lot if credit for not only bringing out a good cam but one that truly is a digital back to many older and exotic lenses that exist in other brands. This truly can be called a open system in many ways. Options are wonderful my friends and there is not one of us that has not thought of what next to bolt on it. Pick your favorite brand and it will most likely work on it. That deserves credit even if it's not perfect. I'm glad I have it and the A7r I had a blast with both of them over the last month and many folks around me are pretty impressed by the files. End of day that is what counts and not how many batteries you had to use to get there. Honestly even with 14 k in images I did pretty good on that matter

 

[Viramati]

I actually used my A7 last night on a job for a client (a cheese tasting in a new shop/restaurant) along with my M(240) and 28 summicron asph. In the end most of the successful shots that I got were with the A7 and FE55 and one or two with the FE35. I certainly was able to hit the focus more than I would have with the M and the summilux 50 asph but that being said auto-focus on the A7 with the 55 is not fantastic in low light (a lot better with the 35). Yes it is not a perfect camera but most of the issues I have with it could be sorted in a firmware update though I hear Sony are not great at this (they should look to fuji who have been amazing with their updates to the X series). Anyway no camera is perfect but I thing with some work and understanding of the camera that it is a fantastic tool.
By the way one of the main advantages that I found in the A7 over the M was the lack on banding in shadow areas at high iso. I find this to be a real pain with the M as it seems to start ISO1600

 

[turtle]

Some cameras are 'jack of all trades and master of none' whereas the A7/A7R are both 'masters of some' i.e. format leading IQ in a tiny package. You give up things to get that excellence and I think DP Review looks for an all rounder for all people. On that basis, Ferraris would score badly for lack of rear legroom (if any!) and tractors would be criticised for having poor handling

This is the problem with fixed grading systems. The score is averaged across general use, even if the subject is a niche product.

 

[biglouis]

Here for me is the ultimate irony.

The introduction of m43rds was ground breaking. It invented mirrorless. It promised and delivered high quality photography in half the weight and dimensions. Even though I have sold most of my m43rds kit I cannot bring myself to part with my GH-2 and 100-300 because I can shoot birds and fantastically compressed landscapes with something which (not actually measured but guessing here) weighs in at the weight of a single monster DSLR body. Incredibly impressive. In short, the G1 started a genre of products which have dramatically changed consumer, enthusiast and even professional tastes.

And yet the G1 when reviewed by DPreview scored 70%

So, I suppose that 79% for the A7 is indeed a recognition of the greatness of the camera.

LouisB

 

[jonoslack]

No camera is without its faults. But it's because of faults that the next iterations are so much better.

In short, the G1 started a genre of products which have dramatically changed consumer, enthusiast and even professional tastes.

And yet the G1 when reviewed by DPreview scored 70%

So, I suppose that 79% for the A7 is indeed a recognition of the greatness of the camera.

LouisB

Hi Louis
I think Peter has it. Next up is the killer A8r with a silky smooth shutter and IBIS. Which doesn't mean that the A7 isn't a gem, just like the G1. Maybe they should have a diamond award for innovation, for which the A7 would be a no-brainer.

To be honest though, I'm with Guy and Godfrey on all these reviews. Entertainment only, absolutely limited use.
All the best

 

[GrahamB]

Video of comedian Louis CK, appearing on Conan, with an amusing bit on people not happy with technology.

http://www.thatvideosite.com/v/94

Graham