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Thread: Sony A7r or A7?

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    Sony A7r or A7?

    Would someone please advise me regarding following dilemma: I was hell bent to purchase a Sony A7r until I read and reread all about this camera on this and other forum. Main reason was to use Leica and Zeiss M mount lenses (Leica 2.8/28, 2/35, ZM 2/50 Summarit 2.5/75.) using Novoflex adapter, as well as some older Nikkor lenses. I would be using A7r mainly for landscape and nature photography, I do not mine to use tripod at times, but not always as number of users and reviews suggested should be use. I am now considering getting an A7. My question is how much in a way of quality in a large print say 16 x 20 inch I would be sacrificing compering same size print from a A7r. All suggestions and advice greatly appreciated. Vladimir.

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    The A7 will produce a 20x16 print that is just as good as the A7R, IMO. The 36 MP only really becomes needed for prints significantly larger than this. On A2, I find my 5D III produces absolutely immaculate prints with masses of detail, the quality having more to do with lenses and aperture than anything else.

    If you are printing to a max of 20x16, I would not even consider the A7R if I were you. The A7 has a nicer shutter, faster burst, higher flash synch and is quite a bit cheaper. Simple decision IMO.

    PS I have both.

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    The A7 will produce a 20x16 print that is just as good as the A7R, IMO. The 36 MP only really becomes needed for prints significantly larger than this. On A2, I find my 5D III produces absolutely immaculate prints with masses of detail, the quality having more to do with lenses and aperture than anything else.

    If you are printing to a max of 20x16, I would not even consider the A7R if I were you. The A7 has a nicer shutter, faster burst, higher flash synch and is quite a bit cheaper. Simple decision IMO.

    PS I have both.
    Thank you for your reply turtle.

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Vladimir,

    Please bear in mind that some M lenses do not perform well at all on the Sony A7 and A7R. Each lens model varies. Generally, even the 'not so compatible' 35mm lenses will be fine in the corners if well stopped down, but wide than this, some lenses are pretty horrible. I'd recommend doing some research on your M lenses and then making decisions from there.

    I have the 35 Sonnar FE and would recommend it, if you are prepared to sell some of your Leica lenses to finance the transition. The 24 summilux is amazing, for example, so is the 35 CV 1.2 II, but some of the ZMs are nasty on the Sony. 50 ZM planar is incredible...

    Maybe have a look here if you are thinking of the Sony A7 (something I am putting together) The Photo Fundamentalist

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    Maybe have a look here if you are thinking of the Sony A7 (something I am putting together) The Photo Fundamentalist
    Tom, nice work on your blog. Your write-ups are well-considered, thoughtful and nicely presented. I'm enjoying the other content there as well. Blogs are a lot of work (I know because I fail at them regularly. ) I've shared your blog with a friend who is considering the Sony A7 now. I believe your perspective will be helpful to him.

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    My intent is to use my Leica R and Nikkor lenses with the Sony A7, treating it as a "Leicaflex SL Digital" surrogate essentially. I specifically went for the A7 rather than A7r not only because it saved me a thousand dollars but because I believe the A7's 24Mpixel sensor is more likely to be kinder with adapted lenses than the A7r's 36Mpixel sensor due to the differences in photosite pitch and AA filter.

    I ordered Nikon F -> NEX and Leica R -> NEX adapters the same time I ordered the A7. In preliminary testing, all my lenses (R 50 to 180, Nikkor 50 to 105) work beautifully on the A7. No corner degradation, no color shifting, etc. Given the focal lengths, they probably work fine on the A7r as well. I have an Elmarit-R 24mm f/2.8 arriving soon—I'm hoping it works as well as the 50mm lenses do.

    I heard the M-Rokkor 90/4, M-Rokkor 40/2, Nocton 40/1.4, and Ultron 28/2 work well also. This piques my interest since I own those lenses and they're a lot more compact than the SLR lenses, good for a compact traveling kit. On that basis, I ordered an M-mount -> NEX adapter as well. Waiting for it to arrive so I can test..

    The short CV Color Skopars (21/4, 25/4, 28/3.5, 35/2.5) have always been somewhat difficult on full frame sensor cameras due to the lens design - near-symmetric, small lenses that put the primary nodal point close to the sensor. However this example that my Paul made with the 21/4 made with the A7r convinces me that I should try them on the A7 as well:
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/564309-post2381.html (link to Paul's post)
    For situations where ultimate corner resolution isn't all that important, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't use them. I'll be curious to see how they work on the A7 vs on Paul's A7r.

    That's a good thread to browse through looking for what can be done with which lens and camera combinations, btw ...
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/493...-a7-7r-48.html (link to the fun with thread)

    I'd say you can't go wrong with the A7, buy the A7r if you want to push the envelope a bit further. ;-)

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Thanks Dale. I think they're brilliant, if imperfect, cameras and happy to answer any questions he might have. I've got another couple of pieces to publish, with the A7/R being used in the field so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Tom, nice work on your blog. Your write-ups are well-considered, thoughtful and nicely presented. I'm enjoying the other content there as well. Blogs are a lot of work (I know because I fail at them regularly. ) I've shared your blog with a friend who is considering the Sony A7 now. I believe your perspective will be helpful to him.
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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    The A7 will produce a 20x16 print that is just as good as the A7R, IMO. The 36 MP only really becomes needed for prints significantly larger than this. On A2, I find my 5D III produces absolutely immaculate prints with masses of detail, the quality having more to do with lenses and aperture than anything else.

    If you are printing to a max of 20x16, I would not even consider the A7R if I were you. The A7 has a nicer shutter, faster burst, higher flash synch and is quite a bit cheaper. Simple decision IMO.

    PS I have both.
    Tom, what is your observation on the AA vs. non-AA effect of the two cameras? Since using Leica DRFs and now the Ricoh GR, I'm hooked on no AA. Otherwise, I think I'd prefer the a7. Thanks.

    John

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Hi John,

    Mindful that we're not quite comparing apples with apples here, because the A7 is 24MP and the A7R 36 of course... one can detect that the A7R needs somewhat less sharpening and has slightly better pixel level acuity at the right apertures. But, even with the lack of AA filter and extra pixels on the A7R, the A7 really is right on its heels unless you are making those jumbo prints and want every last ounce of detail. Personally, I think the A7 files sharpen up nicely and I'd have no hesitation choosing that camera if 24 MP is going to work for you fine.

    If you really do want to push things to the max resolution-wise, don't think that lenses are not available to really make the AA free 36 MP sensor shine, because this is not the case. I'm quite gob smacked how much detail you can see, but its going to take a big print to show it. My best performers at the edges are my 35 CV 1.2 II (f5.6 and beyond), 50 ZM planar and 90 Elmarit-M. The 35 Sonnar's forte is edge and corner performance at f2.8-f4 - its amazing - but past this, my CV 35 CV 1.2 II is actually a little better. Hopefully, with time, we will have more native lenses appear that really do allow the A7R to show what it can do. I don't have a 55mm Sonnar, but hear its stunning.

    I've not noticed problems with the lack of AA yet, but then again I don't shoot fabrics much, or patterned subjects.

    If you really want to see astounding levels of acuity at the pixel level and breathtaking edges, have a look at Leica Monochrom files.... that's something else altogether.

    If only Sony had rolled out one body; a 30 MP one!!!

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Honestly I been shooting non AA filters for years with 5 MF backs , D800e and the A7r and this moire issue is way over hyped. It's not even a factor. Sure you may get it and you will also get with AA filters first you need great glass to even get to the Nyquist level to get it and its a easy fix in post.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    Guy, how can you deny the problem when it is easily generated by shooting 10,000 frames of test fabrics at distances adjusted by the millimetre at specific apertures? The knowledge that after testing marathons that would bore NASA to death, moire can be generated in a couple of frames... well, it has completely ruined my enjoyment of this camera for shooting landscapes!!!

    This is my way of saying I agree with Guy.

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    Re: Sony A7r or A7?

    LOL

    I actually have a gig at the end of the month doing a Tuxedo catalog and Gowns as well. 6 models and a ton of different fabric. Now there is a trick here folks and if you run into issues like this. You can back your focus a touch off the Nyquist value and just stop down a bit more. I have to do this sometimes when shooting electronic cockpits for aircraft. If I happen to hit the Nyquist value especially with electronic display's it comes in I just back off ever so slightly and let the DOF take over and image is still very sharp but just shy of the Nyquist level.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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