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Thread: Reid Reviews and a7r

  1. #51
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Not sure why people are being so touchy as to "leave" the forum!

    I don't see any bashing of the person here, it is the product that the opinions are being expressed about. Mr Reid is offering a product that requires you to pay to use it, i.e. to read his reviews you need to pay. Like any product that is available for a price, it is fair to express opinions about it - good bad or ugly, it is fair game. And yes, it is fair to question the objectivity of reviews, esp the ones on paid sites. Why is it ok to make fun of KR but not question other reviewers?

    In any event, I appreciate Guy, Jack and Bob for operating such a wonderful forum. I personally have learnt a lot from all of you and continue to do so. And I do blame all of you for getting me hooked to MF - two years back when I saw the stunning pictures in the MF forum, my eyes popped out and I decided to get a MF kit when I could afford it.

    -- Eeraj
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  2. #52
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    One major feature of a pay-site is that if you do not think the contents/presentation/format/whatever are worth the price or you decided to drop cameras in favor of hamsters, you just don't pay for it again.
    Messages are conveyed to the owner by the rate at which money flows or does not.

    Leaving a free forum is even less costly.

    "That's all."
    -Miranda Priestly
    www.getdpi.com
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  3. #53
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    As they say in the car biz, "there is a butt for every seat." And there is a forum/site for everyone's taste. I continually marvel at how idiotic most of the larger forums (*cough* dpr *cough*) have become. The interwebs is a fascinating thing, and digital communications has created more problems than it may have solved. For those with 15 min to kill, I gave a TEDx talk on this last year (cue shameless self-promotion - Analog soul - digital world: Todd Richmond at TEDxVeniceBeach - YouTube).

    One interesting phenomenon is the inevitable "I'm leaving..." post on forums when someone gets offended. As a moderator of a very active "off-topic" forum at a car site, I've seen it all and those posts usually draw the ire of the regulars. Again, another interesting dynamic of the interwebs.

    Mr. Reid and Mr. Chambers are selling their expertise and opinions. Everyone is free to buy it or not. Customers are also free to express their displeasure with the way that material is presented or the price or the bias. That is part and parcel of what someone signs up for when they charge people for their content. The only thing the customer can't do is violate copyright (e.g. cut and pasting paid content other places). Beyond that, once you start selling you have to expect "feedback." The various communities will determine if it is reasonable.

    I've said it multiple times - this forum is a particularly good balance of information, encouragement, criticism, and talent, all delivered with a mostly upbeat and friendly atmosphere. There are gear whores here, but few fanbois. There are pros here, but they don't look down on the dilettantes (he typed, looking in a mirror).
    new album | nostatic | music
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  4. #54
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    simply offering your opinion, not even selling it, is asking for criticism and feedback
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Ditto. I have nothing bad to say about Sean as a person. (I don't know him!) My biggest gripe is his web design. Instead of getting a headache from trying to manage his web design--and paying for it--I will, instead, rely on all of the free information online, including from this forum.

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Game time. Go Denver. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    My trouble with all the bloggers who make a living out of it - whether by traffic like KR and Steve Huff, or with paysites like Lloyd and Sean, is that it seems to me that they have to spend so much time blogging that they no longer really have time to be photographers (perhaps Ming Thein is an exception here).
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Meh, this all seems a tempest in a teapot.

    Whether some reviewer is a good photographer or not, or isn't as good as someone else, isn't my place to say. Since I live in a creative glass house, I balk at tossing stones at anyone else's work.
    Just to get it straight Marc - I wasn't criticising their skills as photographers, just their ability to get to the bottom of actually 'using' a camera. I'm very aware, even with my limited experience, that spending too much time testing different cameras makes it increasingly difficult to get to the soul of any of them. Too easy to end up obsessing about CA in the corners or high ISO ability, or how easy it is to add exposure compensation and forgetting that one wants a camera that gets out of the way and lets you take good photos.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    There is only one reviewer that I care about, and that is me
    All the techno-innovation claims and so forth do absolutely nothing for me if the camera just doesn't feel right.
    I posted my checklist in the Sunset Bar. http://www.getdpi.com/forum/564269-post4.html

    I have no idea how to review a camera without laying hands on the patient and no third party is capable of doing that.
    Some have accused me of getting a strong opinion of a camera within five seconds of picking it up.
    That is true, for a negative decision. Positive decisions take more time.
    Bottom line is that your most trusted reviewer is yourself in partnership with a dealer or friend who lets you play with the gear or a rental house.
    -bob
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  9. #59
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Just to get it straight Marc - I wasn't criticising their skills as photographers, just their ability to get to the bottom of actually 'using' a camera. I'm very aware, even with my limited experience, that spending too much time testing different cameras makes it increasingly difficult to get to the soul of any of them. Too easy to end up obsessing about CA in the corners or high ISO ability, or how easy it is to add exposure compensation and forgetting that one wants a camera that gets out of the way and lets you take good photos.
    That comment wasn't aimed at anyone specifically Jono if you re-read the thread, there are a few comments regarding Sean's photography. That "collectively" is what I was reacting to, not your comment.

    I think judgements about anyone's work is a slippery slope on a friendly site like this. Glass house, and all that.

    I will agree that it is difficult to access the "soul" of any sophisticated tool in one day of testing. Especially if you are doing it a lot, with a lot of different cameras.

    However, "soul" is a very subjective and extremely personal thing to try and quantify. It is usually based on a longer term interaction with a camera while reviewers tend to be of the moment when a new camera hit the streets. It is the nature of the beast.

    While reviewers may obsess about some pixel peeping aspect, we are free to ignore it if it isn't an important aspect to us yet, read the comments here on this site lots of obsessing about CA, corner sharpness, and high ISO capability.

    The question then is, would many of these techno-obsessed recognize "soul", even if it bit them on the face? I'm not one to say they would or would not. That is their personal and subjective call to make.


    Tempest in a teapot, IMHO.

    - Marc

  10. #60
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    There is only one reviewer that I care about, and that is me
    All the techno-innovation claims and so forth do absolutely nothing for me if the camera just doesn't feel right.
    I posted my checklist in the Sunset Bar. http://www.getdpi.com/forum/564269-post4.html

    I have no idea how to review a camera without laying hands on the patient and no third party is capable of doing that.
    Some have accused me of getting a strong opinion of a camera within five seconds of picking it up.
    That is true, for a negative decision. Positive decisions take more time.
    Bottom line is that your most trusted reviewer is yourself in partnership with a dealer or friend who lets you play with the gear or a rental house.
    -bob
    As I said Bob, it's all very personal. One person's this, is another person's that.

    Most of these reviews are of just breaking news, and those interested generally are early adopters. Face it, a review of the A7R that appeared 3 months later would attract close to zero interest.

    Plus, most of the time, new gear is in short supply and getting a hand's on demo isn't all that easy. The brick and mortar stores have given way to mail-order, where it's a PITA to try something then send it back.

    Personally, I've become a bit more open to innovations that on first grasp may not tick off previous criteria, but I'll give them a whirl. I did that with the A99, which was quite a departure from my A900. I've come to like it now. Didn't at first. Different strokes for different folks.

    However, I do agree that the only real test in the end is using the stuff yourself and long enough to make a decision relative to what you are trying to creatively accomplish.

    - Marc

  11. #61
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Tempest in a teapot, IMHO.

    - Marc
    I didn't even think it was a teapot

    Just this guy you know

  12. #62
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I didn't even think it was a teapot
    LOL!

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I didn't even think it was a teapot
    Okay, a teapot from a little girl's miniature set for serving Teddy Bears and the like

    - Marc

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I didn't even think it was a teapot
    What if the teapot contained cocktails?

  15. #65
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jlindstrom View Post
    Well, there's two ways about it.. either there are enough people happy to pay him for the content despite the user interface or his success declines and he has to draw the conclusions: either fix it or be out of business.

    That being said, I have a serious dislike about subscription sites and subscriptions in general for that matter! Those monthly bills keep piling up.. very few services I need so often that I'd like to tie myself into year long contracts. I'd prefer small one time fees or free choice of contract term.. ie. buying a new camera/lens, I'd be interested for 6 days.

    //Juha
    "That being said, I have a serious dislike about subscription sites and subscriptions in general for that matter! Those monthly bills keep piling up."

    Adobe and their "cloud" comes to mind.. I refuse to subscribe...
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  16. #66
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    RVB, I'm the same re the Adobe cloud. I also find that subscription is less and less necessary for photo stuff because there is ever more info available for free.

  17. #67
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    What if the teapot contained cocktails?
    Then it needs to be a frigging HUGE teapot for this group!

    A spy sent me this photo of a special sink in Tim Ashley's beach house:

    Jack
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  18. #68
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Then it needs to be a frigging HUGE teapot for this group!

    A spy sent me this photo of a special sink in Tim Ashley's beach house:

    Sadly my beach house is currently unreachable due to flooding, but if that is what the faucets are up to in my absence, I may strap myself into the waders and go for it...
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  19. #69
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    I think Sean does great testing, has excellent essays, and has less sources of potential bias (affiliate revenue, etc) than most other reviewers, myself included.

    However, I agree with most here that his site is a major hindrance. Most of the time, when I get the email that he has done a review, I don't bother to click on it because I don't want to deal with Flash. The fact that it can't be accessed at all on an iPad isn't a big deal to me, but I suspect it is for a lot of potential customers.

    It works for him, and it's his prerogative to do things as he sees fit. However, I think he'd have a more successful business if he abandoned Flash and did things the way Lloyd Chambers does them.
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Sadly my beach house is currently unreachable due to flooding, but if that is what the faucets are up to in my absence, I may strap myself into the waders and go for it...
    Surely not - you're miles above sea level there . . . . the wall hasn't washed away has it?
    As for the picture - I can imagine the wine dispenser, but I don't remember any taps as nasty as those

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    What if the teapot contained cocktails?
    Is there anything else you'd put in teapots?

    Just this guy you know

  22. #72
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Surely not - you're miles above sea level there . . . . the wall hasn't washed away has it?
    As for the picture - I can imagine the wine dispenser, but I don't remember any taps as nasty as those
    Have you seen the St Ives TV video of the wharf on I day night? Horrifying! The house is ok, the access, less so...

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Have you seen the St Ives TV video of the wharf on I day night? Horrifying! The house is ok, the access, less so...
    Hi Tim. Missed it. Is the warf badly damaged? Link?
    I hope the wine doesn't go off before you can get back

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    been hooked on Doc Marten; isn't that filmed near St.Ives? absolutely beautiful country, and that from an oregon coast boy

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    been hooked on Doc Marten; isn't that filmed near St.Ives? absolutely beautiful country, and that from an oregon coast boy
    John, now that you mention it, you kind of remind me of Doc.










    KIDDING!!!! (Inside joke if you watch the show.)
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Ha! been thinking the same thing. Shut-up!

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  28. #78
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    I hope it isn't in poor taste, but can someone confirm or deny what I imagine the conclusion was?

    M: Way better with wides, better colour at base ISO
    A7r: better with ~35mm+, better DR and better high ISO

  29. #79
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Tim. Missed it. Is the warf badly damaged? Link?
    I hope the wine doesn't go off before you can get back
    Storm surge strikes St Ives harbour

    Strangely beautiful even if highly damaging to real estate....

  30. #80
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    been hooked on Doc Marten; isn't that filmed near St.Ives? absolutely beautiful country, and that from an oregon coast boy

    It is indeed filmed quite near there - but St. Ives is a lot more beautiful - one of the most lovely places I've ever been. Jono and I both have strong links with the place (he is from there and I live there part time)

  31. #81
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    I hope it isn't in poor taste, but can someone confirm or deny what I imagine the conclusion was?

    M: Way better with wides, better colour at base ISO
    A7r: better with ~35mm+, better DR and better high ISO
    M: way better with M wides, colour is season to fast IMHO. But the files are very nice and unless you prefer the usability of the A7R and or want to print very large, remains a perfectly viable alternative - especially if you own and love M wides. Otherwise, there are some very nice wides out there by other makers and if you get a good adaptor, pretty much all but M style will work well.

  32. #82
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    I hope it isn't in poor taste, but can someone confirm or deny what I imagine the conclusion was?

    M: Way better with wides, better colour at base ISO
    A7r: better with ~35mm+, better DR and better high ISO
    My guess would be:

    M: Way better with wides
    A7r: better with ~50mm+ (except 50 Lux,) better DR and better high ISO

    FWIW, I also quit Sean's site a couple of years ago, partly because of the tedious format.

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Well my Leica 19R is killer good on the A7 and A7r guys. In the M world you just have to find the correct wides that work without issues.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well my Leica 19R is killer good on the A7 and A7r guys. In the M world you just have to find the correct wides that work without issues.
    That is because it is a retro-focal design
    -bob

  35. #85
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    R wide good, M wide bad. Largely.
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  36. #86
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    R wide good, M wide bad. Largely.
    There are some exceptions though.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    There are some exceptions though.
    I have to say, Woody's 18 SE M lens over both the A7 and A7r looked just fine to my eyes... Ironically, it looked better than the 21 SE M lens did on either cam -- though the 21 was clearly very usable too -- again to my eyes...
    Jack
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  38. #88
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Jack, my SE on the A7R is pretty damned poor... terrible shading and edges barely acceptable by F8, corners just about ok by F11 but diffraction is having its lunch by then

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I have to say, Woody's 18 SE M lens ... it looked better than the 21 SE M lens did on either cam -- though the 21 was clearly very usable too -- again to my eyes...
    My 21 SE M is very poor on the A7R ... but the ZF.2 25 F2 is nothing short of exceptional....not as wide but seems wide enough most days. Stitching with it should be doable.

    Bob

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    My zeiss 21mm f2.8 is also really nice

  41. #91
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    I like my WATE 16-18-21/4 on M9 and A7R.
    Sometimes both cameras benefit from LCC.
    No corner smearing at all, even wide open.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    M 21/1.4 ASPH seems to work well a tad big, but at least you don't have to add a finder, and the grid overlay is helpful getting things squared up.

    M28/2 ASPH is a mess on the A7R. Forgetaboutit.

    - Marc
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  43. #93
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    I have Ron Scheffler's full res samples of the 21 SEM and 21/2.8ZM and as someone who has seen the potential of these lens I can say that they performs horribly in the corners on the A7. The 21 Lux is also slightly below its potential.
    Out of the 21SEM and 21ZM the 21ZM is definitely the more smeary of the two.

    I'm sure if you're used to lesser lenses these would look fine, but I would expect biting sharpness corner to corner by f/4.0 with all of them.

  44. #94
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    We should be putting this lens data in a better thread folks. It certainly will get lost. Maybe someone can start a thread on Leica, Zeiss, Voightlander M mounts on the Sony. Something like that . Having the reference for others is good to have around. Just a thought. Btw I did write a article on the front page if you care to read it. It's on the Sonys
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  45. #95
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    OK, I take it back.

    I wrote above that Sean had offered many lens tests that I found useful and valuable. But today he published what promised to be a review of 28mm M lenses on A7R and M240. The lenses were two (2): his 28 Cron and his old and no-longer-available 28 f3.5 Skopar.

    I and apparently others had already written to tell him it's a mistake to review M lenses only on A7r body and not also on A7.

    For this level of ambitious thoroughness I'm supposed to pay $35.00? Seems delusional.
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  46. #96
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    I guess the fascination with M lenses on A7/R is that many folks, including me are still searching for that killer camera that can do justice to the M wides. I am not counting the M with its half **ed EVF as a killer camera.

  47. #97
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Storm surge strikes St Ives harbour

    Strangely beautiful even if highly damaging to real estate....
    That doesn't look too bad - and if the stupid tossers hadn't knocked down the lovely granite wall around the harbour, then the Lifeboat would not have been swamped (they knocked it down and put railings up in the 60s because the hippies used to sit on it).

    Is there damage to the wharf around your end of the harbour?

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  48. #98
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    That doesn't look too bad - and if the stupid tossers hadn't knocked down the lovely granite wall around the harbour, then the Lifeboat would not have been swamped (they knocked it down and put railings up in the 60s because the hippies used to sit on it).

    Is there damage to the wharf around your end of the harbour?
    I hear not, but I haven't been down. My neighbour two doors down was having a cup of tea by the window a few days back and ended up in hospital because a wave smashed through and hit her, flooding her home...

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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I hear not, but I haven't been down. My neighbour two doors down was having a cup of tea by the window a few days back and ended up in hospital because a wave smashed through and hit her, flooding her home...
    Ouch - how horrid - have you been looking at the pictures of Sennen?

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  50. #100
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    Re: Reid Reviews and a7r

    I have - amazing. The cliff over which the waves have been smashing must be at least 150 feet high and the spray is coming right over...

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