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Thread: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

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    Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Well, I went today to local "candy shop" and held the A7 for the first time.
    Verdict: not for me.

    - general size of the body: puny, sort of uncomfortable to hold (OEM 50mm lens mounted)

    - evf: not a fan! I am still "analog" guy. I can't get around evf for still camera. The hole process of electronic image going "in and out" of focus is so distracting to me....

    -fit and finish: light years behind my "M"...

    I will stick with my D800/Leica M/M9 for some time in the future. All praised image quality from Sony is not everything for me. Enjoying the "tool" is big part as well...

    Cheers!
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    You should try speed dating.
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    You should try speed dating.
    Why?

    I just got the "boring" 28 corn... I have my date...

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I went to the grocery store today.

    Picked up a bunch of carrots. Not for me. I Hate carrots.

    Didn't really need to test the carrots, because I know I hate them.

    But I thought you carrot lovers should know.



    - Marc
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I like carrots so do my dogs. Ship to Arizona. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Well the Sonys are not for everyone totally get that but spend a week with it and you may change your thinking a little. There actually pretty proficient little image makers.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Ok, so I am crossing off A7/r and carrots from my list. Anything else I should be aware of?

    Eeraj

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Yea you live in New Jersey. LOL

    Now I can say that since I grew up there.LOL

    I'm just joking
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I can only think of two things to add to this thread.

    1. Maybe that's why Baskin - Robins offers 31 different flavors. Cameras like different ice cream flavors are quite subjective.

    2. Like many things in life (and as Guy implied), it sometimes takes time to cultivate a taste for something.

    Therefore Marc, keep eating those carrots .

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Yea good for those aging eyes.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    If everyone liked the same camera we'd only have one to choose from.

    On the other hand - first impressions are important just as testing.

    And I like carrots too, must be an Arizona thing....
    Don Libby
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Fun and carrots aside, and all the "fanboy choir" singing...

    I just gave my impression. We can all agree to disagree. I was reading all the praises about the new camera on these pages for weeks. Enjoyed every bit of it. Even some of the images. So, I went and tried it. Didn't like it. I bet this nice camera will entertain a lot of folks on this forum for some time (until next "super model" comes to town). I am just not one of them... Back to my boring lenses, rangefinders and DSLR with yellow cast...

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    LOL. And your opinion counts a lot. It's always nice to hear all views on these things.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I'm sure Sony is devasted that they just lost a sale to "sisoje" and the rest of us will soon be selling our A7/A7r cameras, based on his first impressions.

    If "sisoje" was truly an "analog" guy, he wouldn't be shooting with a D800, Leica MM or Leica M9....he'd be shooting exclusively with film.

    Re "fit and finish"...many of us appreciate the beauty of a Leica camera and lens (I know I do), but has anyone here experienced corrupted memory cards with an A7/A7r yet? Not me. My friend with an M9P did last week....in his own words, it was "very frustrating!". Luckily for my friend, he had a Fuji X-E2 to fall back on....EVF and all.

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 5th February 2014 at 07:36.
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I went to the grocery store today.

    Picked up a bunch of carrots. Not for me. I Hate carrots.

    Didn't really need to test the carrots, because I know I hate them.

    But I thought you carrot lovers should know.



    - Marc
    Hmm, our horses love carrots!
    Want to see some stunning A7R photos from Patagonia?
    Well, here you go:

    30000 ft above Patagonian Andes, Chile/Argentina - DSC01035 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Maybe if I'd eaten more carrots I wouldn't need a big/bright EVF...
    new album | nostatic | music
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Re "fit and finish"...many of us appreciate the beauty of a Leica camera and lens (I know I do), but has anyone here experienced corrupted memory cards with an A7/A7r yet? Not me. My friend with an M9P did last week....in his own words, it was "very frustrating!". Luckily for my friend, he had a Fuji X-E2 to fall back on....EVF and all.
    Just part-ex'd my M9 + 2 lenses in a deal to get the A7r. Never had any failures with the M9 or the M8 before that. And both of those cameras and especially the lenses were beautifully made and I truly enjoyed shooting with them.. just that my manual focus wasn't fast enough for my 2 year old daughter.

    In ideal world I would have kept that my M9 and got the A7r on the side. But alas, we don't live in ideal world.

    That said, have zero complaints on how the sony looks or how it's built. And I'm starting to get the settings right too (ie. managed to turn most of the useless stuff off and flight mode on). it's starting to feel like a quite enjoyable "little imager" and I'm thinking of getting 1-2 mf lenses for it, for those sentimental moments when I'm missing my Leicas..

    As for the OP, he's actually quite correct in his statements. I wouldn't buy a camera either, if it felt somehow awkward in my hands. Leica X-vario comes to mind.. without evf really strange and I have that evf for my X2 and starting to dislike it. I'll probably sell it and keep shooting the X2 at arms lenght. Or swap it to next iteration of the X100 series Fuji (or X3 if such comes with a proper integrated evf).

    //Juha

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    You might want to give the Sony RX1 a look. Sure you can't change lenses but the build quality and EVF are light years ahead of the A7 IMHO. There is no lag or blurriness in the RX1 EVF. I had no idea how good it was until I first played with the A7 which nearly gave me vertigo while panning...

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by jaree View Post
    Ok, so I am crossing off A7/r and carrots from my list. Anything else I should be aware of?

    Eeraj
    Don't try to shoot any photos with the carrots and especially don't try to cook the camera with a pot roast.

    - Marc
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    I can only think of two things to add to this thread.

    1. Maybe that's why Baskin - Robins offers 31 different flavors. Cameras like different ice cream flavors are quite subjective.

    2. Like many things in life (and as Guy implied), it sometimes takes time to cultivate a taste for something.

    Therefore Marc, keep eating those carrots .

    Dave (D&A)
    Ain't EVER going to happen Dave.

    However, I once had carrots in a La-De-Da restaurant in Paris that were delicious but as my dad was fond of saying, "The French can make a dog turd taste good" (to which I always asked how he knew that for sure)

    I do understand not liking RVF I didn't like the "taste" when I first got my A99. Now I don't even think about it, and have come to really like the whole notion of what you see is what you get.

    What remains a real issue for me with the Sony's Live-View EVF is to keep the viewfinder live, you have to shut off the instant LCD review.

    If you don't configure the camera that way, it can be terribly disorienting with LCD on, the last shot review also appears in the viewfinder

    - Marc

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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Ain't EVER going to happen Dave.

    However, I once had carrots in a La-De-Da restaurant in Paris that were delicious but as my dad was fond of saying, "The French can make a dog turd taste good" (to which I always asked how he knew that for sure)

    I do understand not liking RVF I didn't like the "taste" when I first got my A99. Now I don't even think about it, and have come to really like the whole notion of what you see is what you get.

    What remains a real issue for me with the Sony's Live-View EVF is to keep the viewfinder live, you have to shut off the instant LCD review.

    If you don't configure the camera that way, it can be terribly disorienting with LCD on, the last shot review also appears in the viewfinder

    - Marc
    Took me a bit to get used to that as well. I had to learn the artful dodger trick of half shutter press to clear it. Nikon/Canon trained me well to never expect to see what I had already shot in the viewfinder. Different strokes for different folks, but I guess they can't display both the viewfinder image and a different rear screen image at the same time?

    Would be kind of like trying to walk and chew carrots at the same time.

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I found that I had to turn review off anyway to reduce shutter lag. It is disconcerting though that when you've been chimping and then put the camera to your eye, instead of seeing your subject, you see the photo in the viewfinder that you've just been reviewing. By the time you work out what's gone wrong, it's too late. Happened twice to me yesterday.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    BTW One should eat some carrots now and then, good for your eyes to see sharp through the viewfinder.

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    LOL. And your opinion counts a lot. It's always nice to hear all views on these things.
    Mr. M: it works both ways!

    I am sure most of the "hard core" a7 guys that are throwing stones and carrots at me, will have a new toy in 6 months. I just don't do that... Now, you can shoot me!

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    No stones, just carrots, but I have to say, just to leaven the levity, that your OP title has the word 'Funboy' in it which has very strong echoes of 'fanboy' - a phrase normally used to imply that other people are buying a particular camera because of their blind loyalty to the brand rather than the qualities of the machine itself. That might be why you got a reaction. Maybe that was what you wanted?

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Your title is very captivating. Even I am not a Sony A7/A7R fanboy or owner, I have to come to visit and check things out. I'd like to see how you're doing. I think the fanboys are much nicer than I thought
    Can you imagine if the carrots are raw eggs?

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Tashley: Well, I did not call anybody an"F" word but just stated I am not. And as I can process,meaning of that word has wider meaning than you mentioned. Not to go in details, I just wanted to mention "another view" of particular piece of gear. Expected reaction, not carrots...
    I understand all good points of the camera in question, all fine. But, as anybody's else "opinion" on the forum I stated mine. Am I required here only to be "positive"? I went. I tried. Did not like it. Back to my original post: I can't get over the evf. I said I prefer "analog" (viewing and framing) over digital. Even I have been using evf devices last 25+ years in broadcast cameras (mostly branded "Sony") and being a "Funboy" of Sony pro video cameras my self, I just did not like the feel of looking "thru" a7...
    Back to finish of a7: again being subjective just as anybody else here, I found a7 exterior kind of not adequate to what is inside (and the quality of images as I can see here, it delivers). Sorry. For me, Sony did the same thing with their PMW line of HD Cinema cameras in beginning (F3, that I still own and F700 as well). That sparked a hole new market of products by independent companies that tried to "fix" that (some better than others...). It took Sony few tries, and finally they are close to "perfection" with F5/F55...
    And they did it not because they are generous, but because they "got the message" form the field...
    Makes sense?
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Well, Sisoje.. just to elaborate a bit on Tim Ashley's point of view.

    Even though you, as you stated, didn't mean to imply that everybody/most here would be A7 fanboys it somewhat does come across as such statement. And that usually sparks a note or two. It's a bit of stupid situation in many ways, but quite often the internet forum trolls would start their threads with similar wordings.. thus we get to where we are now with this thread.

    As to stating your opinion, it's more than welcome and actually encouraged! One just needs to be a bit careful with their word games to not get mixed with trolls..

    Anyway, think everybody now gets the real deal and understands that you just wanted to discuss how you feel about the camera and that it's not to your liking.

    //Juha
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Oh boy would I be busy if I were to post on dedicated fora on all the things I held in my hands in stores an eventually did not buy

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    Oh boy would I be busy if I were to post on dedicated fora on all the things I held in my hands in stores an eventually did not buy
    You might be spending too much time in stores then...
    I went to one only to see what was all the "hoopla" about with a7...

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Out of interest did you try an A7R for 'feel' ? I actually like it, and I understand that it feels a bit more 'grown up' than the A7.
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    The A7R does look like a toy. I added the vertical grip just to make it fit my hand a little better. Compared to my flagship 1DX, it does not look or feel like a professional tool. Not a fan of the adapter or the lack of native lenses. I don't like that that it does not have available a range of professional accessories. However ... I love the EVF. I love the whole experience of using it. I love the IQ. I love the focus peaking. Not the least, I am happy to see Canon and Nikon get the butt kicking they deserve. I have been waiting patiently for years for Canon to come out with something ground breaking. I ditched the Canon glass a while back in favor of Zeiss. Now I ditched the camera too.

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I really understand the concept of judging by feel. Years ago as I made the switch from film to digital I gave Hassy a try and as soon as I had it in my hands I remember not liking the way it felt. I will admit I shot with it looking at the files it produced but was so turned off at the feel I just couldn't get past that initial impression.

    In the same vain I don't care much for peas for the way they feel but that's a different conversation.

    I was so impressed with the A7r both the way it felt and the files it produced that I've now ended up buying it as a walk around in leu of my DF. In the end, you need to be true to yourself.

    Don
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    as too look and feel, almost 8 years ago now, I walked into a best buy, held a Canon Rebel, and a Nikon D50 ..... I had never shot a film SLR .... In less than 10 seconds, I knew I was a Nikon shooter.

    Every time I pick up a Canon, that memory comes back.

    a few years later, I did not have the same connection with an M6

    or a Mamiya AF-D

    I did get it with the OM-D EM-5, none of the other M-4/3 though ....

    Have not been in to see the A7 yet .... I'm too scared

    First impressions matter, a lot!

    Dave

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Fallon View Post
    The A7R does look like a toy. I added the vertical grip just to make it fit my hand a little better. Compared to my flagship 1DX, it does not look or feel like a professional tool. Not a fan of the adapter or the lack of native lenses. I don't like that that it does not have available a range of professional accessories. However ... I love the EVF. I love the whole experience of using it. I love the IQ. I love the focus peaking. Not the least, I am happy to see Canon and Nikon get the butt kicking they deserve. I have been waiting patiently for years for Canon to come out with something ground breaking. I ditched the Canon glass a while back in favor of Zeiss. Now I ditched the camera too.

    Don't mind me saying if you thought you like the EVF in the A7 or A7r, then you should have a try of the Olympus E-M1. It's EVF is much better again as its magnification is larger, plus it uses ambient light sensors to improve the whole EVF experience.

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I may be wrong, but I think Sony Funboy is going to play Lollapalooza this year. Their latest album, "Bunch of Carrots" is pretty good...
    new album | nostatic | music
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I found that I had to turn review off anyway to reduce shutter lag. It is disconcerting though that when you've been chimping and then put the camera to your eye, instead of seeing your subject, you see the photo in the viewfinder that you've just been reviewing. By the time you work out what's gone wrong, it's too late. Happened twice to me yesterday.
    I shoot wildlife with my EVF cameras and I find it's best to turn off the review function altogether - too big a chance of missing the action. And if you do want to review, it's only a second the tough that little arrow button...
    Bill CB

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by sisoje View Post
    Well, I went today to local "candy shop" and held the A7 for the first time.
    Verdict: not for me.

    - general size of the body: puny, sort of uncomfortable to hold (OEM 50mm lens mounted)

    - evf: not a fan! I am still "analog" guy. I can't get around evf for still camera. The hole process of electronic image going "in and out" of focus is so distracting to me....

    -fit and finish: light years behind my "M"...

    I will stick with my D800/Leica M/M9 for some time in the future. All praised image quality from Sony is not everything for me. Enjoying the "tool" is big part as well...

    Cheers!
    As someone else mentioned, it sounds like you should look at the RX1 with an OVF in the hotshoe. I replaced my M9+35 Cron Asph with the RX1 last year, and I haven't looked back. The RX1 is compact, nearly the build quality of the M9, has a silent leaf shutter, and the IQ is better than any Leica equivalent.

    I don't love using EVFs, either, and I think too many potential RX1 users disregard the usefulness of using a "dumb" OVF in the hotshoe. I just keep the camera set to center point AF, and it's easy to visualize the center AF area in a nice, bright, uncluttered viewfinder. I even find the AF with an OVF just as effective as my Fuji's hybrid viewfinders, since neither optical viewfinder is TTL (sold an X100s in favor of the RX1, too.)

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    I can see the lines forming deep of all people that test drove the car last weekend and felt the need to inform the world "<insert brand name and model here> is not for me".

    P.S. If you guys only knew what "sisoje" means in Serbian you wouldn't be taking his post very seriously.

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post

    P.S. If you guys only knew what "sisoje" means in Serbian you wouldn't be taking his post very seriously.
    Joe's dyslexic sibling?

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I shoot wildlife with my EVF cameras and I find it's best to turn off the review function altogether - too big a chance of missing the action. And if you do want to review, it's only a second the tough that little arrow button...
    That's how I shoot.

    Still dislike having to press the arrow during a fast paced wedding or event rather than just a quick glance. Definitely an advantage of using a OVF DSLR.

    I read that Leica has separated the EVF and LCD review on the X cameras I wonder if that is true, and whether it is something that can be implemented?

    - Marc

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post

    P.S. If you guys only knew what "sisoje" means in Serbian you wouldn't be taking his post very seriously.


    Г-дине Зоране,

    Молив вас просветлите не образоване масе интернета шта "значи" мој псеудоним и какве то везе има шта ја пишем и да ли сам "озбиљан"или не...

    Enjoy your a7!

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    As someone else mentioned, it sounds like you should look at the RX1 with an OVF in the hotshoe. I replaced my M9+35 Cron Asph with the RX1 last year, and I haven't looked back. The RX1 is compact, nearly the build quality of the M9, has a silent leaf shutter, and the IQ is better than any Leica equivalent.

    I don't love using EVFs, either, and I think too many potential RX1 users disregard the usefulness of using a "dumb" OVF in the hotshoe. I just keep the camera set to center point AF, and it's easy to visualize the center AF area in a nice, bright, uncluttered viewfinder. I even find the AF with an OVF just as effective as my Fuji's hybrid viewfinders, since neither optical viewfinder is TTL (sold an X100s in favor of the RX1, too.)

    Thanks for suggestion, but I like my M9 and M240. I have no need or desire to change it for anything else. Period. I simply went for "test drive" and reported. A different take, sort of speak. I have no need for another type of body in my kit, especially the one that is not a "fit". Again, I am not a type of photographer who runs out and changes all pro gear (good God i am still using 4 years old digital rangefinders!) when ever "new super model" is in town. I am not saying that is wrong. Do what ever you want with your $$ if that makes you happy (as long as it's legal).

    I see that some a7 users found out similar things as I did, but decided to go for it because other reason that were paramount over listed shortcomings. That is fine as well...

    Again, I have nothing against Sony, the brand. I saw it coming long time ago, when they started thier DSLR. In few years they will be even bigger as Nikon and Canon keep dragging thier feet. Time will tell. And I am sure a8 or a9 will be even better. No doubt.

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Well, I went today to local "jewelry shop" and held a Leica for the first time.
    Verdict: not for me.

    - general size of the body: puny, sort of uncomfortable to hold (OEM 50mm lens mounted, Cron something?...meh)

    - Rangefinder: not a fan! I am still "digital" guy. I can't get around ancient tech for still camera. The hole process of the image going "in and out" of focus in a tiny box is so distracting to me....

    -fit and finish: light years overpriced...

    I will stick with my NEX 7 for some time in the future. All praised image quality from inflated german optics is not everything for me. Enjoying the "end result photo" is big part as well...

    Cheers!
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    new album | nostatic | music
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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by sisoje View Post
    Well, I went today to local "candy shop" and held the A7 for the first time.
    Verdict: not for me.

    - general size of the body: puny, sort of uncomfortable to hold (OEM 50mm lens mounted)

    - evf: not a fan! I am still "analog" guy. I can't get around evf for still camera. The hole process of electronic image going "in and out" of focus is so distracting to me....

    -fit and finish: light years behind my "M"...

    I will stick with my D800/Leica M/M9 for some time in the future. All praised image quality from Sony is not everything for me. Enjoying the "tool" is big part as well...

    Cheers!
    Guess it's not the right camera for you.

    I'm delighted with the A7's ability to image with my lenses with exactly the same fidelity I get from the Leicaflex SL. The camera itself ... A little cheese whiz clunker, but a good viewfinder and excellent sensor.

    Making photos that show me the qualities of these lenses is more important to me than whether I'm fondling lovely machinery. :-)

    G

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I read that Leica has separated the EVF and LCD review on the X cameras … I wonder if that is true, and whether it is something that can be implemented?
    - Marc
    Yep, it can. I have the X2 and just recently got the olympus vf-2 evf for it. And I'm not liking it.. the evf itself is pretty crap compared to A7r. Slow in refresh rate and also the picture is really cold. It's a distraction.. Also the evf's ergonomic fit isn't the best. For me it would need to come out further back to feel good. Now I feel my nose is pushed inside the camera to view it properly.

    Also, the review thing works nice, BUT there is no sensor to switch automatically between evf and lcd. And that's a pain.. I do my settings through the lcd, so I end up manually switching between screens.

    So I think I'll be getting rid of that evf soon and continue shooting the X2 at arms length, which actually works quite nicely in good light.

    Well, enough Leica in Sony funboy thread

    //Juha
    Last edited by jlindstrom; 5th February 2014 at 20:47. Reason: typos

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    Re: Not a Sony A7/r Funboy, sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by sisoje View Post
    Г-дине Зоране,
    ...
    Enjoy your a7!
    Thank you, I already _AM_ enjoying it (A7R, to be precise). You see, rangefinder is not for me, and I am not interested to lug my Nikon full frame with me all the time either, A7R works great for me. (weird, for some reason I never felt the need to inform Leica and Nikon crowd about it)
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