OlderThenDirt
Member
Hey,
I'm not being a wise guy here, just asking. Why would you want to put a medium format lens on the Sony?
Robert
I'm not being a wise guy here, just asking. Why would you want to put a medium format lens on the Sony?
Robert
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Using a medium format lens on the Sony A7r
- Thread starter Don Libby
- Start date
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
It's actually a great question. Makes me wonder as well but it maybe some folks only have DSLR style of glass in MF. Also you do get the center of the lens or the sweat spot as they say. Also you do have some TS options with Zoerk and Mirex adapters for medium format lenses. As you can see Stefan is also working on that very thing. Another reason is there are some really nice MF glass out there and they have big image circles so shifting and such can be a much bigger advantage than 35 glass. This alone could be huge panos with a lot of stitching movements and more so than let's say a Canon TS.
Only for lenses that have a manual aperture control.... not for the LS lenses. An electronic handshake between the camera and lens is needed. Too bad as it would be interesting to use those lenses on the A7r.
Victor
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
It would but there are some great lenses out there with Aperture rings. Pentax comes to mind immediately and some fun Mamiya glass as well. Hassy there is a ton
Don Libby
Well-known member
Robert - as Guy said, great question. The main reason for me doing this is that I no longer have access to 35mm lens (other than Sony). The other reason is that personally I've always felt that medium format lens offered me more in the line of image quality. Add this to Guys response as to "why".
Don
Don Libby
Well-known member
Some very nice work/ideas showing up!
This will be the end of my testing with the 80mm - tomorrow promises to have clouds so I'll be using the 55LS in the morning leaving the 150 and 240.
Overall I'm very pleased with what I'm getting and feel the downside is caused by user error more than equipment failure. I started this project doing handheld shots and feel I should continue that way. I've had a few missed focus point however again I'll take the blame for them.
Three images follow, in each case the non-post processed one followed by one that is slightly processed using things I normally would when starting out on a file. The last image surprised me so I had to offer 3-samples. I'm still getting my thought together and once I do I'll post them on my blog.
1/1600 ISO 8000
After some slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section and shake reduction. Just a bit noisy however I think if I worked it just a little more I could have toned it down.
1/1600 ISO 64
After some slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section some slight work in the sky with Nik Viveza 2.
After some slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section and shake reduction. Had to crop this at 100% just to show the fine details.
Three samples next. First and second have no post processing however the second is a 100% crop showing the fine details. The third contains slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section and shake reduction. I'll admit that I screw up focusing on the read instead of the front bud however this was handheld and if I were doing this for real the camera would have been on a tripod where it belongs. Yet this shows me the potential.
1/160 ISO 500
100% crop
Processed
I test the way I shoot. In other words I shoot landscape, nature and wildlife so that's what I test in order to see what I can achieve for my own work. It wasn't until I joined GetDpi that I had any thoughts of sharing because again, it was for my own knowledge of whether or not a piece of gear or process would fit into my own workflow. Also I absolutely hate JPEG files as I know that they don't/can't show the true finished work; in short my personal opinion I think they suck. Now that's off my chest I'll say that as good as some if not all this images look they look much better on my calibrated monitors in full resolution Tiff format - hell if they didn't they'd never see the light of day.
I plan on continuing the test with the 55LS then on to the long lens just to see what they can produce. While I have no real interest in what the 240 alone can produce on a Sony I will do it because in one-way I'm interested in seeing what it looks like mounted on the camera!
Cheers
Don
This will be the end of my testing with the 80mm - tomorrow promises to have clouds so I'll be using the 55LS in the morning leaving the 150 and 240.
Overall I'm very pleased with what I'm getting and feel the downside is caused by user error more than equipment failure. I started this project doing handheld shots and feel I should continue that way. I've had a few missed focus point however again I'll take the blame for them.
Three images follow, in each case the non-post processed one followed by one that is slightly processed using things I normally would when starting out on a file. The last image surprised me so I had to offer 3-samples. I'm still getting my thought together and once I do I'll post them on my blog.
1/1600 ISO 8000
After some slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section and shake reduction. Just a bit noisy however I think if I worked it just a little more I could have toned it down.
1/1600 ISO 64
After some slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section some slight work in the sky with Nik Viveza 2.
After some slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section and shake reduction. Had to crop this at 100% just to show the fine details.
Three samples next. First and second have no post processing however the second is a 100% crop showing the fine details. The third contains slight post processing that includes individual level adjustment (red, green and blue) then over to the filter section and shake reduction. I'll admit that I screw up focusing on the read instead of the front bud however this was handheld and if I were doing this for real the camera would have been on a tripod where it belongs. Yet this shows me the potential.
1/160 ISO 500
100% crop
Processed
I test the way I shoot. In other words I shoot landscape, nature and wildlife so that's what I test in order to see what I can achieve for my own work. It wasn't until I joined GetDpi that I had any thoughts of sharing because again, it was for my own knowledge of whether or not a piece of gear or process would fit into my own workflow. Also I absolutely hate JPEG files as I know that they don't/can't show the true finished work; in short my personal opinion I think they suck. Now that's off my chest I'll say that as good as some if not all this images look they look much better on my calibrated monitors in full resolution Tiff format - hell if they didn't they'd never see the light of day.
I plan on continuing the test with the 55LS then on to the long lens just to see what they can produce. While I have no real interest in what the 240 alone can produce on a Sony I will do it because in one-way I'm interested in seeing what it looks like mounted on the camera!
Cheers
Don
Paul David
Member
Hey Don,
They work so well on the Sony that you might even want to try those lenses with the PhaseOne back!
All kidding aside, other than the obvious weight advantage, why would you want to use the Sony instead of the PhaseOne back that you have and work perfectly?
See you in Carmel.
-Paul
They work so well on the Sony that you might even want to try those lenses with the PhaseOne back!
All kidding aside, other than the obvious weight advantage, why would you want to use the Sony instead of the PhaseOne back that you have and work perfectly?See you in Carmel.
-Paul
Don Libby
Well-known member
Great question! The sole reason for doing this test is that I wanted to see how the lenses would perform and trust me there's no way in hell that I'd ever consider giving up either the WRS or the DF (until a new better body comes along).
One of my thoughts on this was if Canon, Nikon and Leica lenses are so good then my Phase\Mamiya should be just as if not better. Beside I like pushing the envelop just to see that "what if". Doesn't mean that I'd consider doing it in real life.
One thing I did find interesting a couple minutes ago. I finished shooting the camera porn showing the various lens on the 7r and had the 2x and 240 together on it. I figured what the heck and tried it out. The weight was much better than on my DF yet it was a little uncomfortable shooting handheld.
See you next week in Carmel and to answer the unasked question, yes I'll be bringing everything with me as I plan on shooting in Valley of Fire on my way home.
One of my thoughts on this was if Canon, Nikon and Leica lenses are so good then my Phase\Mamiya should be just as if not better. Beside I like pushing the envelop just to see that "what if". Doesn't mean that I'd consider doing it in real life.
One thing I did find interesting a couple minutes ago. I finished shooting the camera porn showing the various lens on the 7r and had the 2x and 240 together on it. I figured what the heck and tried it out. The weight was much better than on my DF yet it was a little uncomfortable shooting handheld.
See you next week in Carmel and to answer the unasked question, yes I'll be bringing everything with me as I plan on shooting in Valley of Fire on my way home.
Don Libby
Well-known member
To be totally honest folks I started this because I was bored. I'm recouping from a nasty bout of food poisoning that has still left my stomach tender. When I'm bored I tend to do crazy things like think up new tests. All the images shown so far are within 10 feet of my bedroom door so it's been easy. I'm feeling much better with each day and today I actually feel the best in close to a week. I'm getting cabin fervor and want to get out tomorrow morning besides we should have some clouds.
Just a little back story to the reason why the heck is he doing this......
Don
Just a little back story to the reason why the heck is he doing this......
Don
OlderThenDirt
Member
Hey Don, playing is a plenty good reason for tying something "outside the box". I have several nice Pentax 645 lenses because of the "build it and they will come" idea - if I have the lenses maybe a 645D will fall from the heavens.
Otherwise, I was hoping you had come across a great reason for me to use them on my A7r.
As I said, just asking.
Hope you feel better soon.
Robert
Otherwise, I was hoping you had come across a great reason for me to use them on my A7r.
As I said, just asking.
Hope you feel better soon.
Robert
Bill Caulfeild-Browne
Well-known member
Get well soon, Don - we need you!
Bill
Bill
Dave, Although the Pentax 120mm 645 macro is superb, trying out some of the other Pentax medium format lenses isn't redundant in my opinion. When I tried various 645 focal length lenses on the D800e, I was surprised at their level of performance even over many of the excellent similar focal Nikon 35mm format lenses. I attributed some of the look and notable imagery to the fact that the D800e was using the sweet spot of many of these 645 format lenses. Of course it's on a lens by lens (case by case) basis.
What's so convenient about most all of the Pentax legacy 645 lenses as you noted, is that they all have aperture rings, so you have a choice of selecting shooting aperture.
Dave (D&A)
Thanks for the tip Dave. Right now I do not have a Pentax 645 -->Sony NEX adapter. I do have a Pentax 645---->Nikon adapter + Nikon ----->Sony adapter which I could try in series. I know you have accumulating tolerances, but I would think live view focusing would eliminate any focus issues. I will give it a try.
Regards
Dave in NJ
What's so convenient about most all of the Pentax legacy 645 lenses as you noted, is that they all have aperture rings, so you have a choice of selecting shooting aperture.
Dave (D&A)
Thanks for the tip Dave. Right now I do not have a Pentax 645 -->Sony NEX adapter. I do have a Pentax 645---->Nikon adapter + Nikon ----->Sony adapter which I could try in series. I know you have accumulating tolerances, but I would think live view focusing would eliminate any focus issues. I will give it a try.
Regards
Dave in NJ
My reason for wanting to try MF lenses on my A7R is simple: Because I have them sitting on a shelf with the 645D: 35mm f3.5, 75mm f2.8, 120mm Macro, 150mm f3.5, 200mm f4, 300mm f4 with matched 1.4X. Because I will only be using the center "sweet spot", I think the 420mm (300mm + 1.4X combo) will use a "crop factor" telephoto effect of even longer, sort of like using a full frame 35mm format lens on APSC cameras. What a piece of plumbing that would be: two adapters + 1.4X and a 300mm lens.
Best to all from NJ
Dave
Don Libby
Well-known member
Bill, Thank you very much for such kind words. Please don't think I'm at deaths door just yet - I had a very bad case of food poisoning last Sunday and I've found the older we get the longer it takes to bounce back. Each day I've felt better with today being the best. While not yet back at 100% I'd say I very close and looking to getting back on the road later this week heading to Carmel.
Again, please except my sincere thanks.
Don
Don Libby
Well-known member
I'm going to break this into two separate posts. First some camera porn....
Schneider 55mm LS
Mamiya 120mm macro
Mamiya 150mm
Schneider 240 with 2x extender attached
480mm handheld 1/4000 ISO 2000 Don't particularly like this as it reminds me more of a surveillance photo yet it's proof it works.
I finished testing the 55mm LS this morning with great results. So far I tested my 55, 80 and 120mm and if you accept the shot above the 240. What I quickly have found is that not only is this doable I've gotten some great results. It's one thing sticking a lens on a body; it's entirely different that they actually work as expected. So, with this in mind I'd stopped the testing for the time being. Not that I expect to get negative results quite the opposite.
I'm busy the next couple days shutting down the studio in order to head to Carmel then Valley of Fire on my return. Call me crazy however I ordered a Rokin FE14mm e-mount to try in Valley of Fire and I get it Tuesday and want to spend time getting used to it before I leave.
What have I learned? That as far as I can tell, just about any good quality medium format lens (I consider my Phase, Schneider, Mamiya to be on the top of the list) will work very well with the Sony A7r and by extension although not tested, the A7. It also appears I'm not the only one thinking about this.
Next up is the results of the Schneider 55mm LS....
Oh almost forgot to add - my favorite lens during all this was the 120mm macro!
Don
Schneider 55mm LS
Mamiya 120mm macro
Mamiya 150mm
Schneider 240 with 2x extender attached
480mm handheld 1/4000 ISO 2000 Don't particularly like this as it reminds me more of a surveillance photo yet it's proof it works.
I finished testing the 55mm LS this morning with great results. So far I tested my 55, 80 and 120mm and if you accept the shot above the 240. What I quickly have found is that not only is this doable I've gotten some great results. It's one thing sticking a lens on a body; it's entirely different that they actually work as expected. So, with this in mind I'd stopped the testing for the time being. Not that I expect to get negative results quite the opposite.
I'm busy the next couple days shutting down the studio in order to head to Carmel then Valley of Fire on my return. Call me crazy however I ordered a Rokin FE14mm e-mount to try in Valley of Fire and I get it Tuesday and want to spend time getting used to it before I leave.
What have I learned? That as far as I can tell, just about any good quality medium format lens (I consider my Phase, Schneider, Mamiya to be on the top of the list) will work very well with the Sony A7r and by extension although not tested, the A7. It also appears I'm not the only one thinking about this.
Next up is the results of the Schneider 55mm LS....
Oh almost forgot to add - my favorite lens during all this was the 120mm macro!
Don
Don Libby
Well-known member
I've decided to make the Schneider 55mm LS the last lens combo to test.
There really isn't much more I can add to what I've already said before. The combination of medium format lenses and the Sony A7r work. What's left to you is to decide if you want to actually do it.
I've found the lack of aperture settings not to be a huge factor as I was able to overcome the loss by using the shutter speed and ISO; what helped the most is the live view.
I switch gears a little today and instead of showing the non-processed image I'm showing the processed ones.
55mm LS 1/1000 ISO 200
55mm LS 1/1600 ISO 250 Is anyone else as tired of seeing this tree as I am?
55mm LS 1/1600 ISO 100 converted using Nik Silver Efex Pro
55mm LS 1/3200 ISO 100 Silver Efex Pro again
55mm LS 1/3200 ISO 100
55mm LS 1/8000 ISO 160
55mm LS 1/250 ISO 640
One last thought - shooting this way you'll be dependent on using a combination of shutter speed and ISO so be prepared to extremes. Super fast shutter speeds and very high ISO depending on your shooting conditions.
More than anything else think outside the box and have fun do it!
Don
There really isn't much more I can add to what I've already said before. The combination of medium format lenses and the Sony A7r work. What's left to you is to decide if you want to actually do it.
I've found the lack of aperture settings not to be a huge factor as I was able to overcome the loss by using the shutter speed and ISO; what helped the most is the live view.
I switch gears a little today and instead of showing the non-processed image I'm showing the processed ones.
55mm LS 1/1000 ISO 200
55mm LS 1/1600 ISO 250 Is anyone else as tired of seeing this tree as I am?
55mm LS 1/1600 ISO 100 converted using Nik Silver Efex Pro
55mm LS 1/3200 ISO 100 Silver Efex Pro again
55mm LS 1/3200 ISO 100
55mm LS 1/8000 ISO 160
55mm LS 1/250 ISO 640
One last thought - shooting this way you'll be dependent on using a combination of shutter speed and ISO so be prepared to extremes. Super fast shutter speeds and very high ISO depending on your shooting conditions.
More than anything else think outside the box and have fun do it!
Don
Stefan Steib
Active member
why not using one of these :
Build in Aperture Canon EOS EF Lens to SONY NEX E Mount Adapter NEX-5 NEX-7 NEX3 | eBay
with this you can even put a Mirex Tilt shift ontop of it (M645AF-EOS) and have some movements (needs to be evaluated)!
The mirex would have to be modified to take the new AF lenses though .
Regards
Stefan
Build in Aperture Canon EOS EF Lens to SONY NEX E Mount Adapter NEX-5 NEX-7 NEX3 | eBay
with this you can even put a Mirex Tilt shift ontop of it (M645AF-EOS) and have some movements (needs to be evaluated)!
The mirex would have to be modified to take the new AF lenses though .
Regards
Stefan
subrata1965
Member
Don, can you please help me to understand how do you use Phase / Mamiya lenses w/o aperture control? How do you control DOF?