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Thread: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

  1. #51
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Actually, while the ALPA itself will not wash your car, if you buy one, Swiss gnomes will come to your house to do the job.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Actually, while the ALPA itself will not wash your car, if you buy one, Swiss gnomes will come to your house to do the job.
    And the buggers better leave chocolate goodies too, at the price one pays for an Alpa!... :-)
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Actually, while the ALPA itself will not wash your car, if you buy one, Swiss gnomes will come to your house to do the job.
    Hmmmm... will they wash the dishes too? Cut the grass? Walk the dog? ... If not then Wow! Is that thing ever <insert something to pick on here>!

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    Hmmmm... will they wash the dishes too? Cut the grass? Walk the dog? ... If not then Wow! Is that thing ever <insert something to pick on here>!
    I put a lot of this "mountain out of mole-hill" nit picking down to Tall Poppy Syndrome. The A7/R are so incredibly impressive for so little money, relative to their peers.

    Even the most expensive cameras are fraught with limitations. Take the Leica M. Even though it has an EVF, you're still limited to focussing (and recomposing) using a single, central focus point. The EVF is awful (low res, laggy) and can cause the camera to lock-up. The shutter may be quieter but it tops out at 1/4000. Leica tried to fit a 1/8000 in the first generation M8, but they were self destructing and subsequent models were downgraded to a 1/4000 shutter.

    Anyway, I just keep seeing so many incredible images coming from these new Sony's, which say far more about these cameras than posts that nit pick.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Agreed just look at some of those images members posted. Those alone got me interested in the first place. I'm really enjoying it and I have not said that in a long time about any camera. I liked my tech cam in recent years. This thing is fun warts and all.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I put a lot of this "mountain out of mole-hill" nit picking down to Tall Poppy Syndrome. The A7/R are so incredibly impressive for so little money, relative to their peers.

    Even the most expensive cameras are fraught with limitations. Take the Leica M. Even though it has an EVF, you're still limited to focussing (and recomposing) using a single, central focus point. The EVF is awful (low res, laggy) and can cause the camera to lock-up. The shutter may be quieter but it tops out at 1/4000. Leica tried to fit a 1/8000 in the first generation M8, but they were self destructing and subsequent models were downgraded to a 1/4000 shutter.

    Anyway, I just keep seeing so many incredible images coming from these new Sony's, which say far more about these cameras than posts that nit pick.
    Exactly! Let's notice "flawed" cameras never stopped people from producing incredible works of art with them.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    The A7r makes terrible espresso. There, I said it.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    This in no way a new discussion. Back in the day, some even complained that the later OM cameras, the OM-3 and 4, were noisier than the OM-1. Many reviewers pointed out that the shutter of the Contax N1 was noisy. One added: "At least you get the model's attention." Then there are the countless discussions comparing the noise of classic Leica M cameras with that of Cosina/Voigtlander rangefinders. Sometimes, I was of the impression that the difference in sound was the sole important reason for forking out several thousand dollars extra for the German product.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    While I wish every camera was perfect and can do every single thing we want from it, including washing my car, we live in real world in which nothing is perfect so I don't understand why people feel the need to make such a noise (pun intended) about A7(R) not being perfect in everything. What's a big deal? Before A7(R) came out to market it wasn't crossing my mind to complain that shutter on my D700 was making it too loud for taking shots at symphony concert, I just wouldn't take it with me. You pick the tool that is right for task at hand, sometimes it's one, sometimes it's other, and you keep moving on.
    Hear, hear. Such excuses of imperfection and tolerance towards it ought to be exclusively reserved for Solms products. Made in Japan has to be nothing but perfect. No matter the (pretty affordable) price.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    The A7r makes terrible espresso.
    Did you brew it long enough?

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I think so. But someone on DPR said something about too fine of a grind being a problem since there is no AA filter. And Lloyd C. said that the shutter shake causes the crema to separate so I'm not sure what to do.

    Maybe I should go back to a full manual coffee maker...
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Marc
    I hope I made it clear that it was personal!


    I wasn't implying a generality - I was implying a personal specific - in a big room with lots of people it really isn't an issue - in a small room with a bride having her hair done I think it IS an issue - but I still realise it's my feeling.


    Of course - but I wasn't trying to imply a generality from a specific - there are lots of approaches, but the fact that people have taken great pictures with noisy cameras doesn't (IMVHO) make noisy shutters a good thing! (or even that it doesn't matter).


    I actually disagree with you here about small rooms - sure if there's music in the background or loud talking - otherwise they notice the sound - specifically and actually . . of course it could be different over your side of the pond (shrug).

    It also has a lot to do with how you blend in and approach your subjects, but to say that it can be done with a camera with a noisy shutter doesn't mean that shutter noise doesn't matter.

    There are lots of factors which make for taking good photos in social environments - I'm not saying that a quiet shutter is the only factor - any more than camera size, high ISO ability and a hundred other factors (many of which the A7/r has got just right), but by saying that it isn't the only factor doesn't make it insignificant.

    I think that for me, this is the biggest disappointment in what is a fabulous camera in so many respects - I don't understand why it was necessary to have such a noisy shutter - Leica can make a quiet one in the M240 (less in the MM and M9 I agree) - Pentax can manage it in their SLRs, Olympus can manage it - why couldn't Sony? By the way - the A7 is only 'better' than the A7r, I still don't thick it's 'okay'.
    Yes, Jono on "this side of the pond" all the people are deaf from attending Acid Rock concerts, and like to play Metallica full volume in small intimate wedding spaces.

    Unfortunately, not all of us have a Harry Potter invisible cloak, and $7,000 Leica M240 to get those quiet moments of a bride getting her hair and make-up done, or sharing touching moments with a doting mother but somehow we make do.

    That said, I agree that given that it is mirror-less, it would have been nice if it benefited from that and were quieter. It isn't, so there you have it.

    That aspect will not stop me from doing what I've always done whether with a loud old film SLR, a MF camera, or a M6 and making more of it than it really is IMO, is of course your option and anyone else's who thinks the same.

    - Marc
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    ... someone on DPR said something about too fine of a grind being a problem since there is no AA filter. And Lloyd C. said that the shutter shake causes the crema to separate ...
    I personally believe neither one is correct. I suspect espresso from it is great and that it is lossy compression of raw espresso that is causing artifacts in the taste.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, Jono on "this side of the pond" all the people are deaf from attending Acid Rock concerts, and like to play Metallica full volume in small intimate wedding spaces.
    I can't hear you.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    I personally believe neither one is correct. I suspect espresso from it is great and that it is lossy compression of raw espresso that is causing artifacts in the taste.
    Another problem is the small boiler, you can only get a limited number of shots and can't really steam any milk for a latte..

    //Juha

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    I can't hear you.
    What? Speak up! Stop mumbling.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Coming from the DSLR world I was really surprised when I first used my A7r. I was expecting a medium format shutter thunk from all the internet wingeing about it. In fact it's not particularly loud. I was a wedding photographer for 10 years with cameras as loud, infact the only camera I ever had which was quieter was the 5D3 with the quiet shutter mode and that was only after I'd retired from event photography.

    I find it amusing that the yardstick for this camera is something which I doubt many bought it for. Who buys a 36 megapixel camera for work where you need silence outside perhaps of a movie set where they use blimps anyway? The A7r isn't a 'do it all camera'. Perhaps the A9r might be however the A7r has horrific shutter lag, hard to find or use buttons, a tiny lens set, etc. It's not a family camera, a p&s equivelant and IMO not an event camera. It's a medium format camera made very very small.

    So no it doesn't do silent. Neither does any other full frame mirrorless camera. Yes it's noiser than the Leica M but with arguably still better IQ and a fraction of the price. It doesn't do sports shooting either but no one seems to be complaining...
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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    So no it doesn't do silent. Neither does any other full frame mirrorless camera.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Anyone compared the A7R shutter noise level with the original M8 (with 1/8000th)? Just wondering.
    Phil

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    What? Speak up! Stop mumbling.
    I am clear and loud enough, it must be my voice getting drowned in noise of that loud shutter ...

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    I am clear and loud enough, it must be my voice getting drowned in noise of that loud shutter ...
    Speaking of coffee machines, listen to the background whirring coming from the M240 in this video shot by LLoyd Chambers.

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    Last edited by lambert; 19th February 2014 at 20:00.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Yeah, sounds like a steam engine That would qualify as annoying if it's present in every video in the M240!

    //Juha

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by jlindstrom View Post
    Yeah, sounds like a steam engine That would qualify as annoying if it's present in every video in the M240!

    //Juha
    Lloyd's not alone ...

    Strange sound when recording video on the M - Leica User Forum

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Speaking of coffee machines, listen to the background whirring coming from the M240 in this video shot by LLoyd Chambers.

    Brook Trout on Redd in Spawning Position / Behavior - YouTube
    Tip for LLoyd: longer lens work on the M240.

    Tip for Leica: stick to rangefinders without the toys.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Mine has almost a double click, so It's not just the level of noise but the click click that bothers me. I have the A7 and even when I turn on or off the electronic shutter, can't tell much difference between the two settings, the shutter is bothersome!

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I too have found some situations when even the A7 is so noisy as to cause disaster. Only the other day, I was photographing a family of famished bears that were being stalked by a Siberian tiger. All this took place in in the grounds of a small Russian Orthodox church where several monks were concluding their final day of a ten year vow of silence in an elaborate outdoor ceremony. I saw a great photo, fired the shutter and, well, I just don't want to talk about it any more.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Dude, fish gotta swim, bears gotta eat.

    This one time on the moon though, I...
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I too have found some situations when even the A7 is so noisy as to cause disaster. Only the other day, I was photographing a family of famished bears that were being stalked by a Siberian tiger. All this took place in in the grounds of a small Russian Orthodox church where several monks were concluding their final day of a ten year vow of silence in an elaborate outdoor ceremony. I saw a great photo, fired the shutter and, well, I just don't want to talk about it any more.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by dave92029 View Post
    Mine has almost a double click, so It's not just the level of noise but the click click that bothers me. I have the A7 and even when I turn on or off the electronic shutter, can't tell much difference between the two settings, the shutter is bothersome!
    When one is on watchout for "flaws" one is guaranteed to find thm. Better question though is what importance that "flaw" has, it is a size of an elephant or a fly. When OMD EM5 came out there was lots of outcries over buzzing sound people were hearing. Yup, you could hear it if you put camera close to your ear in very quiet room and look for it. However, many people, including myself, didn't hear that sound while engaged in real life shooting. I feel same way about "noise" from A7R's shutter, including that double click. When engaged in actual photography I am so focused on it / immersed in it that almost everything else gets shut out, I almost don't register shutter noise at all, that double click is not a bother at all to me either.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    When one is on watchout for "flaws" one is guaranteed to find thm. Better question though is what importance that "flaw" has, it is a size of an elephant or a fly. When OMD EM5 came out there was lots of outcries over buzzing sound people were hearing. Yup, you could hear it if you put camera close to your ear in very quiet room and look for it. However, many people, including myself, didn't hear that sound while engaged in real life shooting. I feel same way about "noise" from A7R's shutter, including that double click. When engaged in actual photography I am so focused on it / immersed in it that almost everything else gets shut out, I almost don't register shutter noise at all, that double click is not a bother at all to me either.
    I have and enjoy my E-M5, and the 5 axis stabilization noise is not noticeable, BUT the A7 shutter sounds like I'm shooting several frames, when in reality I'm only shooting a single frame. It will not make me return my A7 camera, but it would be very nice if Sony could "fix" it!
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by dave92029 View Post
    I have and enjoy my E-M5, and the 5 axis stabilization noise is not noticeable, BUT the A7 shutter sounds like I'm shooting several frames, when in reality I'm only shooting a single frame. It will not make me return my A7 camera, but it would be very nice if Sony could "fix" it!
    While many people are happy with their EM5 I personally would take quality of files from A7(R) over quietness of EM5 any time of the day (maybe because I don't shoot anything that requires absolute quietness). Personally I feel there is a number of things Sony should be fixing (like fact that it is 2014, camera is mirrorless, and yet Sony is offering only two aspect ratios) but sound of shutter wouldn't be a priority.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    While many people are happy with their EM5 I personally would take quality of files from A7(R) over quietness of EM5 any time of the day (maybe because I don't shoot anything that requires absolute quietness). Personally I feel there is a number of things Sony should be fixing (like fact that it is 2014, camera is mirrorless, and yet Sony is offering only two aspect ratios) but sound of shutter wouldn't be a priority.
    I have both E-M1 and A7. I find that the quality of the photos they make are very very comparable up to about ISO 6400 with respect to noise, dynamic range, detailing, etc. The A7 has more to work with higher than that, the E-M1 has more responsiveness and better automation features everywhere.

    I just use the cameras differently. They complement each other well. For me, the A7 is my Leicaflex SL digital surrogate ... I only use Leica R and Nikkor SLR lenses on it as a rule, sometimes an M-mount or a pinhole, and it feels for all the world like my Nikon FE2 in use the way I have it set up. It's quieter than that camera was. The E-M1 is my fast camera ... I only use lenses that supply access to all the automation features, AF etc.

    Both are worth having. :-)

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I too have found some situations when even the A7 is so noisy as to cause disaster. Only the other day, I was photographing a family of famished bears that were being stalked by a Siberian tiger. All this took place in in the grounds of a small Russian Orthodox church where several monks were concluding their final day of a ten year vow of silence in an elaborate outdoor ceremony. I saw a great photo, fired the shutter and, well, I just don't want to talk about it any more.
    Not a situation I walk into on a dayly basis to say the least.
    Very rare, so I am not worryed

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Very rare, so I am not worryed
    Tempting fate...

    Remember, when being chased by famished bears, you don't need to run faster than the bear - just faster than whomever is with you.

    And on another note, I believe Famished Bears is opening for The Russian Orthodox Monks at Isle of Wight Festival.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Too true, Lambert. Shooting a stack of street portraits the subjects here relax once they hear the a7r's manly shutter report. It reminds me of the Contax SLRs. I've yet to see a circumstance in which it caused me a problem. I'll forego even a mug of flat white every time I check out the images out of it.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I have both E-M1 and A7. I find that the quality of the photos they make are very very comparable up to about ISO 6400 with respect to noise, dynamic range, detailing, etc.
    My comment was how I _personally_ feel about files that came out my EM5 vs. my A7R. I have no experience with EM1 files, and not enough experience with A7 files, so I am limiting my feelings to ones I have experience with. Files from EM5 were leaving me completely unsatisfied. I don't know what it was, whether it was me or camera, maybe down the road I can send you few RAW files if you are willing to give me pointers and tell me what I was doing wrong (if it was me), but that was the final result feelings wise. On the other hand files from A7R leave me very excited so far. I don't know what exact technical attributes I should be thankful to for that but that whole rendering, tonalities, look of skin, transitions of white and blacks, that whole je ne sais quoi about look similar to not being able to pinpoint technical attributes behind preferring look from CCD over CMOS, leaves me very happy at the moment. Last time I was this happy with files was from D700 and with A7R I am feeling that for the first time ever I am getting rendering I like in B&W film in package that is close enough to SLR in size. Plus I have a feeling I can push files from it much farther in post than I could with EM5 files.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I just use the cameras differently. They complement each other well. ... Both are worth having. :-)
    That is absolutely true. But when it comes to me, having more than one mirrorless system would be counterproductive at this point so I am focusing on just one and A7R is the one for me . That does not mean I am considering EM* not worth having. I am still keeping almost all of my m43 glass and might wait out a generation or two or give EM1 a try once Olympus starts throwing them on clearance as more than one person whose opinion I respect likes theirs.

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