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Thread: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I need a solution of elevated imagery in my large residence photography gigs. Thinking of getting a 7.5 meter mast, but it is NOT that stable and I cannot, will not, shall not, I swear I won't.....send up an Alpa TC + SK 28 XL + Credo 60 that high and watch it sway about. Never (Although I do have a cable release of 10 metres)

    At the same time it feels pretty sour to present an elevated image from some compact with IQ from another world compared to the rest of the shots. I am seeing a possibility of using the small A7R coupled with a high resolution wide for this single shot in most assignments.

    What I would like to have is a lens in the 15mm - 18mm range. The smaller and lighter the better due to elevated position and wind/swaying concerns. Obviously I would love it as sharp as possible with good contrast - especially maintain contrast and being flare resistant if the sun position is not favourable. The one factor that I am somewhat less concerned with in this case is distortion.

    Any suggestions?

    (Canon 17Tse is too expensive and too large/heavy.)
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    The only 2 lenses I can think of are the 18mm Distagon and the 15mm Voigtlander. They won't do well on the A7r though. They will have colour casts on the A7 which will have to be fixed. I think they are OK for smearing but you should check (best place is probably Fred Miranda).

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    But what if you drop the R and get the regular A7, which is supposedly better with wides. Or if you really need the R, then there are reports that the 19mm Elmarit-R is excellent. Though I'm not sure if it's wide enough for your needs..

    Guy has reported great success with the A7r + 19mm elmarit-R, so if you need more info or samples of that he's the man to talk to.

    //Juha

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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    If you really want a small camera gig, why not consider an Olympus Pen with the 7-14mm F4 ? The Pen bodies are really small (E-Pm2, or E-Pl5) and offer a good Sony sensor (but it is only 16MB, so this will depends of the print size you need). The E-P5 (a newer model) offers WIFI with a link to smartphone or tablet, but is a little bigger. The new E-M10 would be handy too if you need WiFI. They are all smaller than the A7/7r and will offer you several wide angles : the 7-14mm (equivalent to 14-28mm) is highly regarded, but subject to flare and purple fringing. There is also a light 12mm (24mm equivalent) opening at F2 and even a pancake 14mm F2.5. An E-Pm2 plus that pancake would not be much heavier than a compact, but would produce better IQ, although less wide than you asked. Samyang/Rokinon is also offering a 7.5mm F3.5 fisheye which is very light and small. But a fisheye on a pole may not be ideal if it can't remain parallel to the building. People say it is very sharp, but my copy is less sharp than I would like.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    The Zeiss 18mm distagon for Nikon or Canon work really nice on the A7r which you could pick up used for a good price like 1200 dollars. Couple members are shooting that here. The Leica 19 r is killer but expensive around 3300 dollars. As Anna mentioned you could get a Samyang 14, 24 mm lenses and they are very inexpensive. The 14mm is really wide distorts like crazy but a easy fix.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I would use the 14mm Samyang for that or the C/Y Zeiss Distagon 18/4. Does very well on the A7r, is smaller and has probably less distortion as the Samyang.
    (Just posted some pics with it in the Fun thread)

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Thank you all for good info!

    True that maybe it would be an easier task with finding a matching superwide to the non-R, but I am an MP junkie and shoot nothing but the Credo 60 today. Smaller sensors than a 24x36 is not going to cut it. And hope there is a good solution for the 'R'.

    Distagon 18/4 C/Y
    Distagon 18/3.5 ZF.2
    Distagon 18/3.5 ZE
    Distagon 18/4 ZM

    Haven't seen any samples with any of these on the R. I have seen samples with the Voigtlander 15 and it produces terrible colourcasts, trust the Distagon 18 is much better in this regard!?
    Which one of the above is the better choice?

    The Leica 19R is rare and difficult to find, and probably too much green to fork out if there should be one...

    Maybe I should not disregard the Samyang 14....its just that I have to get over a physocological barrier with the brandname.....
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Dan
    The ZF.2 and ZE are the same lens in Nikon/Canon. They work with adapter they are full frame lenses.

    The ZM I believe is Leica M mount that will not work I believe.

    C/Y is I believe a Contax mount of a older design. This one I have to look up though
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I guess the better and easiest choice would be the 18/3.5 ZF.2 which has the aperture ring and the Canon mount doesn't.

    If anybody has seen any sample/test images on this 18 with the R, I appreciate if you could give me/us a link
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    So with the Canon which I just bought the Z 25f2 you buy the Metabones III adapter it cost 400 dollars but you get aperture control via the camera , full EXIF data and it will auto focus a Canon lens. Reason I went Canon was I have the adapter so I could rent when needed the Canon 17/24 TS glass. So I gave myself a option there.

    Nikon adapters are basically dumb adapters will not do anything mentioned above and they have this silly aperture control on the adapter for Nikon G lenses to control the aperture problem is you have no idea what aperture your setting , the TS won't work . Now with a Zeiss Nikon mount you can control the aperture via the lens but you need to put lens on adapter a certain way. I shaved the coupler off inside the adapter so I did not have to screw with it since I only had Zeiss glass.

    So reason I switched to Canon was it made more sense I get the benefits and also can rent the TS glass. But the adapter costs more.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    BTw the 18mm is a nice lens and pretty darn sharp stopped down to about 5.6/8 in the corners and has a nice look. If I did not have the Leica 19r I would have the 18 for sure.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Also interested. Specifically distortion and corner comparisons to the samyang.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Distortion on the Samyang is very severe but can be corrected with PT lens plug in as they have a profile for it. Actually they have one for the 18 also which is your typical distortion levels for a wide. It's just not that severe as the 14. Corners f5.6/F8 on both of them is very good. In the Sony fun thread there are several 18mm shots posted. I could look for some raws guys and put up a link for you to download . Actually I have both lens files. Let me know and I'll hit my database and you can play. Both lenses shot with the D800e. Yes Zion I had both lenses on hand. If you go back to that thread on the Samyang 14mm I actually compared them together.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Raw's would be great Guy, the D800e will give a perfect idea of what to expect from the A7r. If you have the 14-24 too to add to the mix then I'll have to lick your boots...

    The 18mm would be perfect for me, it's the smallest and would give me the focal length I use for architectural work (I used to use my 16-35L II at the wide end). Wondering about how many mm I'd lose to fixing the samyang curvature and whether it's too wide. The 14-24mm is to be honest the best solution for quality and versatility and probably resale value but it's a huge beast and I'm not sure I want to lose the ability to polarise.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Another option could be to use a Fisheye lens. They are very sharp, small and light. You can use software to de-fish. My favorite one is ImageTrends Fisheye. It works beautifully straightening verticals only but the image quality doesn't suffer.
    Eduardo

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Raw's would be great Guy, the D800e will give a perfect idea of what to expect from the A7r. If you have the 14-24 too to add to the mix then I'll have to lick your boots...

    The 18mm would be perfect for me, it's the smallest and would give me the focal length I use for architectural work (I used to use my 16-35L II at the wide end). Wondering about how many mm I'd lose to fixing the samyang curvature and whether it's too wide. The 14-24mm is to be honest the best solution for quality and versatility and probably resale value but it's a huge beast and I'm not sure I want to lose the ability to polarise.
    Let me work on that. Tough call they both have there pluses. I would myself tend to lean towards the 18 as it is a much nicer lens build wise and it has a nice Zeiss look to it but I like Zeiss lenses too. But the Samyang is cheap and fun to have in the bag as well. Since I have the 19 now I may get the a Samyang again when I have some cash. I'm very much a wide angle person

    Women's hockey is on now at Olympics and should be good US vs Canada . I ll get them up after that
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I don't do a lot of personal wide angle work, it's mainly commercial. Here is a shot from my 16-35L II at 16mm. The lens was invaluable for wedding work where it had an entire camera to itself (the other camera had either a 50mm or 85mm mounted) and I've shot a huge amount of commercial work with it. Mainly architectural. I've sold it since, it was just too big for the A7r. Here's one of my rare wide angle personal shots.

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Here are a couple of wides from commercial interior work. Both at 16mm. Both for the organisation I now work for.



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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Uploading images now. These are REAL images folks, please do not use them for anything except GetDPI. Or I will hound you down. LOL

    https://www.hightail.com/dl?phi_acti...b5fd81af22316a
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Great stuff Guy! Downloading now....(very slow though)
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I put about 12 raws total in there . The EXIF should come up in your raw programs
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Here is the plugin for PT lens

    PTLens Home Page
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    So any reports on the files
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Here are a couple of test shots taken with the Zeiss 18mm f/3.5 ZF.2 on the A7R. They are just close range shots in my kitchen, looking for corner/edge smearing or softness (didn't see any in these shots). Lens attached with a Novoflex adapter and mounted on a leveled tripod. I've had this lens about a month but haven't taken it out in the field yet.



    Carl
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Many many thanks Guy and Scho! Guy I'll have a look as soon as they're downloaded and report my thoughts. My wife will be along shortly after that to scalp you.
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I've looked mostly on the 18 since that is of more interest for me. Overall it looks good but what puzzles me a little is that it seemes that corner quality depends a lot on distance of focus.
    Image 2075 has impressive sharpness top left and is focused (guessing) at 3-5 metres ?
    While image 2483 is focused at infinity and centre infinity is good but far left at infinity is not. In my view big difference.
    Good to see vignetting is well controlled and no funny magenta edges!
    Looks like a solid choice to an A7R Thank you very much Guy for doing this - appreciated and means I can make an informed decision. (Granted results are the same between D800E and A7r)
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I just had a look. The Zeiss has significantly better corners as well as sharpness, contrast and colour. What becomes obvious is that DOF is still a problem with that wide lenses at 36 megapixels! F11 just isn't enough to carry the whole image. In the last of the 21mm images (2483) the trunks are not held by the DOF but the foliage just behind the trunk at the far bottom right corner which is just within the DOF seems sharp and hardly smeared. In 2075 the right far corner is pretty good. Ditto 2190. None of the 14mm lens images seem to hold up as well. I do see what Dan has mentioned though. Have to admit I'd hoped for better though from the Zeiss. Is the Zeiss 21mm better or the Nikon?
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    The 21 is rated better. You guys should read these tests , there pretty accurate.

    Zeiss Distagon T* 18mm f/3.5 ZF (FX) - Review / Test Report


    Zeiss Distagon T* 21mm f/2.8 ZF (FX) - Review / Test Report

    My Leica 19 r I would say better than both of them. The 21 is highly rated though
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    One day I'll have to learn how to read MTF graphs as they pertain to corner sharpness...
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    The 21 is the better lens and the price does reflect that. Has a mustache design distortion so you will need a good profile and its a bigger lens. It is the better lens of the two. Depends on need here. 18 is 18 if you know what I mean.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I know indeed! I wiondering at this point whether I'll just wait for the Sony version and hope or buy the 18mm hoping for a good resale price if the sony is good. What is the Sony Zeiss 16-35mm for regular sony like? I can't consider the Nikon, I need a polariser for my wide work and the flare would be a real issue out here.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I look at the 14 as a more fun lens than a interior marvel. This is why some shoot tech cams. Its hard to get perfection in the super wides. The Nikon 14-24 is also good but big, heavy and mine had focus shift but it's not perfect either.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    What a lot of people may not know is the Z 25 F2 is the latest design and its killer good. But its a 25 mm . I just re bought this lens. I had it sold it like a idiot and just got a new one this week. But I consider this the best 24/25 around.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I know indeed! I wiondering at this point whether I'll just wait for the Sony version and hope or buy the 18mm hoping for a good resale price if the sony is good. What is the Sony Zeiss 16-35mm for regular sony like? I can't consider the Nikon, I need a polariser for my wide work and the flare would be a real issue out here.
    Never shot the Sony 16-35 and it maybe a good option. I here it's good but obviously it needs a good review from someone.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Whatever you do looking for wides, avoid the Zeiss Distagon T* 2,8/15 for the A7R. Horrible distortion, dark, and looks like a Broadway performance of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, it has so many colors dancing across the frame.

    I have a Canon 20mm FD on the way to test. It could be a sleeper for a wide, will have to wait and see once it gets here next week. I have tried several other FD lenses, so far all quite good, and dirt cheap. I will say it is a very strange and unusual feeling shopping for lenses that cost less than the camera bag or strap

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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Just did a retest with my Olympus 21mm f3.5. It's actually, given the pictures you provided, not bad at all in the corners. I think that being used to what 50mm lenses can do I had rather over high expectations. I'd say it matches what I've seen from your images taken with the Zeiss 18mm, albeit the centre isn't quite as good. However, while playing around in the house, it's just not wide enough. I think the Zeiss is probably the correct address for me. Unless I wait for the Sony.
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Been having a look at the MTF numbers of those lenses on photozone. Interesting. My canon 16-35LII as I had already noticed, sucked. The Sony 16-35 is better, it's actually remarkeably consistent across the frame for a WA. The 18mm is very good but the drop from centre to corner is very sharp. Even so the corner is no slouch at all, just that the centre is very very good. The nikon 14-24 picks them all up and wipes the floor with them. Wow but the figures for that lens are mindblowing!
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  39. #39
    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    I have a Canon 20mm FD on the way to test. It could be a sleeper for a wide, will have to wait and see once it gets here next week. I have tried several other FD lenses, so far all quite good, and dirt cheap. I will say it is a very strange and unusual feeling shopping for lenses that cost less than the camera bag or strap
    I recently picked up a mint 20mm FD for $150 and a 28mm FD for $30. Both are quite good on the A7R.
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  40. #40
    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Speaking of Zeiss 18mms, anyone have experience with the older Contax-mount Distagon 18mm 4.0? (and how it might compare to the current 3.4)
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  41. #41
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    I've looked mostly on the 18 since that is of more interest for me. Overall it looks good but what puzzles me a little is that it seemes that corner quality depends a lot on distance of focus.
    Image 2075 has impressive sharpness top left and is focused (guessing) at 3-5 metres ?
    While image 2483 is focused at infinity and centre infinity is good but far left at infinity is not. In my view big difference.
    Good to see vignetting is well controlled and no funny magenta edges!
    Looks like a solid choice to an A7R Thank you very much Guy for doing this - appreciated and means I can make an informed decision. (Granted results are the same between D800E and A7r)
    2075 focused about 10 ft
    2483 focused before infinity . Limbs are only 4 feet in front of me. This maybe a bad frame

    Let me see if I find a better one. I was testing against a IQ 180 and a Rodie 23 on a Arca.
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  42. #42
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Looks like my left side on the 18mm is suspect. I don't have it anymore though to test
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  43. #43
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    Not sure I want to know that the zeiss might have QC problems?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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  44. #44
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: A7R + superwide for elevated/mastphotography

    I am so going back and forth in my mind of what to do!

    I would prefer a slightly wider lens, but how about the Voigtlander 21/1.8 with the A7R ??

    If you put the different focal length aside for a moment, which of Zeiss 18/3.5 and Voigtlander 21/1.8 would you say is the overall better match for the 36mp Sony - thinking optimal f-stop for both lenses?
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com
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