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Thread: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Today went back to my yearly client shooting a clothing catalog that I normally shoot all models full length as they like a little elbow room. Today once again I walked in looked up on the wall above my seamless and bam. A 6 foot square banner of two models put together in a composite from two images but from the waist up. Now do the math a full frame image on a 36mpx but basically in half at the waist is 18mpx each than send that up to 6 foot square. It's the reason I try and get the biggest MPX cam I can get my hands on. Okay I understand its client work and most of us don't run into clients playing around with your files but its a classic case you just don't know what your images will become. I have been burned by this before and I looked like the idiot when a image did not hold up. I realized than about 4 years ago never ever again. Anyway the banner did look really good. Good news is they print those at low DPI but still you just never know what pops up. YMMV

    Oh it was from a D800e and held up nicely.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    What's interesting Guy is a lot depends how the client has the file printed, by whom and by what method. A few years ago I gave a very old file to a client I shot (it was a sitting portrait of their CEO taken many years earlier using the original 2.7 MP Nikon D1 DSLR). I wasn't aware they planned to have it printed to 4' in length. Next thing I know weeks later I was shown the print and I was pleasantly surprised. It held up surprisingly well upon normal viewing distances, especially when eventually mounted under glass. Of course I later found out upon talking to the (high end) printer, what techniques they used to achieve their results.

    Still as we all know it all depends on the image, and if this was a landscape or a file with lots of detail, it wouldn't have worked. I'm in agreement with you with regards to having a sufficient sized file, as I've had situations where certain files loaded with detail unexpectedly were to be printed greater than 3' on the long side. Obviously even 6 or 12 MP probably wouldn't have cut it based on the quality of detail expected. Even the 40MP I used wasn't excessive.

    Still for personal use, I love working with 16-24MP cameras...a great balance of manageable file size when working with large # of files but sufficient for most of what I want to do with the file (for personal use).

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 26th February 2014 at 19:19.

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay I understand its client work and most of us don't run into clients playing around with your files but its a classic case you just don't know what your images will become. I have been burned by this before and I looked like the idiot when a image did not hold up.
    Two years ago I was at a music camp as volunteer staff and ended up being photographer for the five days. I shot about 1K images with my EM5. Posted them online for people to check out and sent out some originals - I shot jpg to save space as I was somewhat off the grid.

    Fast forward to a week ago - I get an email from a guy who's going to do a clinic with one of the people from that camp and he asked about getting a few images for posters. I went back, found a dozen comps, put them up and he picked two, which I sent him the originals for printing. I *really* with that I had:

    a) shot raw
    b) had more pixels

    I'm sure it will end up ok, but no doubt if he does some 4'x6' signage, it could look better. Such is life...

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Its a little bit of a reminder when folks are debating a A7 or A7r I immediately say the A7r. Let's just say if all thing being equal between the two but we know other factors involved as well. We all know they are different outside of the sensor size. I do think 24mpx is the start of avoiding issues like above in a general sense. That old saying bigger is better roars its head sometimes.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    About 5 years ago we needed an image of a car to be printed and applied to the side of a 53 foot trailer - we tried using a Hassy digital back and the files were just not holding up to this extreme size. People would be looking at this trailer from up close as it was a rolling exhibit. We ended up shooting sheet film and drum scanning. Voila.

    Horses for courses.
    Last edited by bradhusick; 17th July 2014 at 09:06.
    Brad Husick
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Its a little bit of a reminder when folks are debating a A7 or A7r I immediately say the A7r. Let's just say if all thing being equal between the two but we know other factors involved as well. We all know they are different outside of the sensor size. I do think 24mpx is the start of avoiding issues like above in a general sense. That old saying bigger is better roars its head sometimes.
    I personally don't know how you live with the slower response of the A7r shutter for action shooting compared to the way your A7 shutter responds. I only shot with your two cams, and maybe there were other setting differences, but for whatever reason the A7r felt clugy slow on shutter press while the A7 seemed faster, more natural, and mostly RF M-like.

    In fact, I could only justify the A7r for use with say specialty C glass like the 17 TSE where working speed was not an issue but I absolutely wanted to use that lens. By contrast, if I were still a L shooter, I could see selling every digital M body I owned and replace them with a single A7 dedicated to each M lens I owned.

    Just sayin
    Jack
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    About 5 years ago we needed an image of a car to be printed and applied to the side of a 53 foot trailer - we tried using a Hassy digital back and the files were just not holding up to this extreme size. People would be looking at this trailer from up close as it was a rolling exhibit. We ended up shooting sheet film and drum scanning. Voila.

    Horses for courses.
    My experiences are similar. I still shoot with a leaf valeo (22MP). Lots of billboards produced as well as truck graphics similar to what you've shown. I don't get involved with the production end of things beyond handing off the files, and so far, everything has looked very good (even at a relatively close viewing distance). I don't have a clue what the designers are doing for file prep to print that large. More megapixels might be better, but what we're doing is working well.

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    One trick we used is to take digital photos of the detailed parts of the car (logos, wheel caps, vents...) and added these to the final image so they would be in sharp detail even when the large undifferentiated surfaces (doors, windows) were at lower resolution.

    It really pays to understand viewing distance and how humans perceive sharpness.
    Brad Husick
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I personally don't know how you live with the slower response of the A7r shutter for action shooting compared to the way your A7 shutter responds. I only shot with your two cams, and maybe there were other setting differences, but for whatever reason the A7r felt clugy slow on shutter press while the A7 seemed faster, more natural, and mostly RF M-like.

    In fact, I could only justify the A7r for use with say specialty C glass like the 17 TSE where working speed was not an issue but I absolutely wanted to use that lens. By contrast, if I were still a L shooter, I could see selling every digital M body I owned and replace them with a single A7 dedicated to each M lens I owned.

    Just sayin
    Honestly does not phase me at all and really don't feel it I shot about 1k yesterday with models and when we did more action I missed a couple but no more than with my Nikons. It's being made out to be more than what's it is but I'm also pretty good at adjusting to things. I'm a old dog used to much much worse timing issues from my film days. Hassy V where turtle slow.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    But I do have both cams as well. I just prefer the 36mpx horse
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    I thought the same thing as Jack when I read what you wrote Guy. I couldn't use the A7r were I still to be shooting events or movement. That said with more use and adding rubber buttons to give better shutter feel, I am, gradually, learning to anticipate the horrific lag of the A7r's shutter.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Hey far better than that damn Mamiya AFD 1,2 and 3 by a country mile with my Phase backs.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    There are not that many like you Guy who would take a heavy lifting truck to a drag race and still manage to win... Always looked with respect and amazement at your use of MFDB for runway shooting.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Thanks Ben. Appreciate that and truth is I'm hard to take off my game when I'm shooting. Not saying I'm the best there is far from it. I'm just trained real well with the gear side of it and am just adaptable to limitations and yes it's a struggle sometimes. But like you when doing weddings you would break your neck to get that moment whatever it took to do it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Reminder why I shoot 36mpx and above

    Broke my wrist once shooting a wedding if that helps and yes I carried on shooting for 8 hours afterwards. You can't tell them to get married another day...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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