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The final backup answer to the A7r

ryc

Member
After dumping all my nikon stuff I bought the a99 and the a7 to try them out. I ended up keeping the a99. Amazing camera. It just felt more flexible to me than the a7. Oh I just bought the new 70-200 G II. Will post som epics eventually when the weather clears up here.
 

ryc

Member
After dumping all my nikon stuff I bought the a99 and the a7 to try them out. I ended up keeping the a99. Amazing camera. It just felt more flexible to me than the a7. Oh I just bought the new 70-200 G II. Will post som epics eventually when the weather clears up here.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
My take on this stuff is likely a bit different from others as my needs/desires are different.

I am perfectly happy shooting with the Olympus E-M1 for anything where autofocus and speed, or LONG telephoto reach, are required. To my eye, the E-M1 is a far more sophisticated camera system, with many more options, than the A7/A7r is at present. The FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds lenses I've got are great quality. Files out of the E-M1 up to ISO 6400 are near identical to the A7 files. And the whole system, lens by lens, is just that much lighter, tighter, easier to carry than FF. As well as more ergonomic, more responsive, etc etc.

I bought the Sony A7 specifically to use with my Leica R lenses with, along with a few of my favorite older Nikkors. I went with the A7 on the notion that it would give an easier compatibility ride for these old lenses than the A7r does, and it saved me a thousand dollars since I got a deal on the body. I wanted a FF sensor for these lenses as I believe that their very specific design intent is only expressed best on the format they were designed for ... Leica is like that. I'll never buy a Sony/Zeiss lens for this camera, and I'll only ever use manual focus, manual or aperture priority exposure mode, etc.

So ... If I want a backup of something, I'll simply buy another of the same body in the same system I want to backup. To me, there's NO point to calling it a backup unless that's what you're doing: the point of a backup is that you have an identical replacement in case your primary goes down. In the case of the E-M1, I'll buy another E-M1. In the case of the A7, I *might* buy an A7r simply because the two bodies work identically, use identical power and accessories, and I get the option of the higher Mpixel sensor, everything else the same (modulo the shutter difference)—as it seems to be a proven thing that the Leica R lenses work just as well on the A7r as they do on the A7.

Right now I'm completing my lens kit for the A7, the lens kit for the E-M1 is already complete. The 19mm should be here tomorrow and I have a line on a Summicron-R 35mm f/2 that I might push the button on today. That will mean I finally have a complete set of lenses from 19mm to 180mm, all top notch, most designed by the same person. I like that.

A garage sale of other equipment I no longer use/want is going up to help empty my equipment closet's excess within a week, as these two cameras, the Hasselblads, and the Polaroids are the equipment base for the photography I want to be doing for the next while. I have several book ideas to start working on, it's time to stop mucking about with equipment and get back to doing photography ...

G
A backup that sits does not do me much good but a backup with slightly different functions that can be a faster AF cam is very useful to me. The Oly simply is not in the cards and you need to try the A7 with a FE lens as it's pretty darn good. Now will it function faster than a D4 designed for sports no but that's not what I do either. The A7 is perfectly capable of doing runway but it needs FE glass to be more effective. But we won't know that till the lens hits the streets if its better than the Sony 4 adapter and a zoom G lens. We can only assume it will.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
A backup that sits does not do me much good but a backup with slightly different functions that can be a faster AF cam is very useful to me. ... you need to try the A7 with a FE lens as it's pretty darn good. ...
Different perspectives, that's all. I fully expect most things I buy as "backup" to sit on the shelf for most of the time I own them. I only buy backups to ... back up ... essential equipment I cannot do without. ;-)

If I need a different kind of camera to do something different, I buy that. But that's not a backup, that's an extension to my kit for another purpose.

Probably our difference is all semantics.

G
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Yes its a backup plus a extra tool in the bag. It's serving two purposes. Nice thing is they share everything which is the best part.
 

MikalWGrass

New member
Guy, just wondering how many perfect focus hits enough? I know if differs from photographer to photographer. Let's say that the new Zeiss 70-200/4 will focus a tenth of a second faster than with the A mount adapter. That will allow you x number more shots per model, and another y number of shots depending upon how many more models there are walking. How many more keepers do you expect, or is it more like the law of diminishing returns?

I am asking you as a way of figuring out if the a900 is good enough or do I really need something else.

I will NOT go Nikon or a99.


Man, this is maddening.
 

MikalWGrass

New member
Sorry, didn't mean to use the term diminishing returns. I was thinking about something I was working on and typed it instead. What I meant to ask you is that will the extra shots make that much of a difference or is the photographer just chasing the perfect shot and hoping that in the extra shots the magical, perfect shot will materialize?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well interesting question and the short answer they go up on smugmug for the model to buy . So given that and I have witnessed it sometimes they buy every shot but mostly if I shoot 6 to 7 on there walk they will most likely buy 3 if there pose or look is good as well. So in short more more when I get more keepers . Now this is a money venture so maybe not as important to others. Now most models will be in about 5 runway events. Jeans, swimwear, runway and than some talent events when on stage. Plus awards , red carpet events, fashion shows. So its big and why I shoot about 15k. The more than the more potential sales. Now having said that I just load them up but printing costs and smug mugs cut out of it which is pretty darn good for them than yes the more the merrier. Also a biggy I don't get time to edit so even the so so images get loaded up. I catch the blanks and stuff is there is one but editing is really time consuming as after each event I have images up in about 2 to 3 hours. I have a second shooter and a third one doing some other shooting as well. Big show my wife produces twice a year. And I work 18 hour days for like 5 days straight. Its killer plus I also do all the multi media stuff that goes on the big screens in the ballroom. So very time consuming and I need to just nail everything. I should say WE here, my second shooter and I break each other often.
 

MikalWGrass

New member
Ah, thank you. Now I understand your need for speed. My swimming and sports shots are done for me, my family, and maybe a few others. No money making venture here, unfortunately. Maybe if I put my cameras away and wasn't so "accessible" with my photos, it might change.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions and concerns.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
My pleasure and I think its really good to hear about the really tough stuff we deal with as others can use that as a base to go by and hopefully learn the pitfalls and needs out there. Sports shooters for instance are up against a lot of walls as well for speed both in shooting, processing and uploading really fast as to beat the competition. A lot of these guys work on pay for image used. If you miss than no dinner. Lol
 

fotografz

Well-known member
T - thanks for the info. Since I shoot primarily center weight focus, I do not want the camera choosing the subject of my photo for me. However, if it can still track faster than my a900 when the subject is coming towards me, it may be worth getting, although I would want a vertical grip.

I shoot swimming photos of my son and his teammates. Since the a900 AF-C is pretty useless, I have become accustomed to shooting a bit in front of the subjects. Here are three photos: the first two were with the a900 and 70-200/2.8G and the third was with the a900 and R 50/1.4 focused about 10 feet in front of the starting block. All three are heavily cropped.


ivanbreaststroke1 by MikalWGrass, on Flickr


alkfly1 by MikalWGrass, on Flickr


backstart4 by MikalWGrass, on Flickr

Guy, how did the A mount 70-200/2.8G work on the A7 or A7R and would the E mount 70-200/4 give you better picture quality or would it just be better because the adapter mounts won't rock, the lens is designed for the body, and the carrying weight is less?

Marc and Guy, I hear you both when you say it is tough to nail focus in low light when the material is all white or black and there is no contrast. Are you guys getting more keepers with the new system than you did before with your previous systems or is it all just a matter of ergonomics and the cameras assisting your eyes?

I searched far and wide, maybe not far and wide enough, but I have yet to see someone shoot sports with either the A7 or the A7R. Maybe there is a reason but I also think the increased contrast in athletics would make the camera a breeze to shoot in those situations.

Sorry for rambling. Thanks for your posts and insights.
Mikal, I do not know how the A7 does with its' dual AF solution … but I don't think the A7R has the over-all speed needed for true AFC Tracking like you are looking for.

What Guy and I are talking about is the ability to place the AF point high enough in the frame to cover the face of a subject coming toward you.

In my case, I still use AFS single shot and shoot a sequence at intervals to get 3 or 4 images as the subject comes closer … I normally use a 24-70 zoom for this type work and zoom from 70mm back to 30mm or so as they approach me keeping the heads in the same place. The ability to place the AF point higher eliminates the constant focus recompose issue which takes time, and sometimes can go wacky.

Even if I had a camera that could do AFC and track extremely well, I wouldn't use it because I shoot these type shots in light that requires flash … which can't recycle quick enough to keep up with sports type tracking anyway.

Different needs = different take on any given piece of gear pro or con.

From what I saw in video demos of the A6000, it looks like it'll do exactly what you are looking for. Durability for you is probably vastly different from what it is for Guy. Whether the right lens exists for your application I couldn't say … yet.

BTW, looks like you are doing okay using skill in place of technical aids … nice shots.

- Marc
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Marc, I can confirm that unless you're shooting a race between two geriatric snails, the A7R's tracking might be challenged. I tried to use it for shooting my dog yesterday and it failed miserably. But I might try it on some slow-ish moving people next. Runway model work in dim light, I wouldn't risk personally!
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Tim
I did some experiments with the A7, which can manage geriatric snails with panache, but is equally useless with dogs! I think I would trust it on a runway though.
 

MikalWGrass

New member
Marc, thank you for the compliments on the photos and the explanation of the necessity of the focus points being high enough on the frame so the photographer can get both the face and the clothing. Now I understand why some photographers focus high then move the camera a bit lower to shoot. Thank you.

I am seriously thinking about the a6000 even though it does not allow spot focusing on the fast AFC, if only because it can also double as a travel camera. The only thing that would make the a6000 more enticing would be the availability of a Sony or third party battery / vertical grip., and an A mount adapter that would give me the same AF speed that E mount lenses may. Thank you again for the explanation.

Jono, were the snails moving towards or parallel to you?
 

MikalWGrass

New member
The a6000 might not even be a decent back up the A7R if SAR is correct: 1) no vertical battery grip planned, and 2) fast AF with A mount lenses and adapter will probably be faster than E mount lenses but slower than with A mount lenses.

The dog and bird focus shots on Youtube are laughable.

Can someone please tell me why Sony doesn't seem to get real photographers to put the camera through its paces instead of the usual suspects shooting pics of their dogs and feeding birds? The Youtube videos do this camera and Sony absolutely NO FAVORS.
 
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