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From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Uses

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Problem is that if you have to have these intricate double clamp tripod mounts and/or dead weights, honestly, why not just get a D800 and get AF which can deal with what most people are using longer lenses for (i.e. not landscape)? It just seems that with all the hoops you have to jump through, the advantages of the A7r are negated.
 

nostatic

New member
Problem is that if you have to have these intricate double clamp tripod mounts and/or dead weights, honestly, why not just get a D800 and get AF which can deal with what most people are using longer lenses for (i.e. not landscape)? It just seems that with all the hoops you have to jump through, the advantages of the A7r are negated.
Because it is far easier to buy something and then complain about it on the inter webs. And if you blog, pointing out these horrific problems that put the public at peril will drive clicks to your site.

Shutter shake is one of the greatest dangers to modern society. It must be stopped! Somebody should start a petition or something. Perhaps some strongly worded letters...
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Not sure it calls for the sarcasm? By knowing what the potential problems are we know better whether to buy or choose our equipment. By your criteria the M8 problem with blacks would never have been discovered until people had spent their money on the camera. The Canon 1D3 fiasco would never have been fixed. These are all real problems with day to day shooting. A review like his gives us a very important message. Don't buy this camera to shoot long lenses with. I don't think that such data should be suppressed. I knew of the problem prior to buying but as my longest lens is an 85mm I decided to go ahead. I did however appreciate the ability to choose. The manufacturers would far prefer that I did not.
 

nostatic

New member
The sarcasm is due to the hysteria that gets whipped up certain places (thankfully not here) about "issues." I have no doubt that shutter shock is a problem for some small number of users. But the self-importance of certain "internet pontificators" leading a charge on the front gate of the evil Sony empire to free the slaves and protect the children bemuses me.

On another note: Do concerns about Sony A7 light leaks hold water?

This is all the rage on dpr (well, the "problem") and I imaging hundreds of A7(r) users sitting in dark rooms with flashlights repeatedly doing 30-second iso 25600 exposures in hopes of catching the elusive Light Leak. And now the same thing is happening with the XT1 - evidently if you shoot with the port covers open you get light leaks.

There are real problems for real people, and then there are teapot tempests for the keyboard warriors. It can be hard to separate those due to the 24/7 "news" cycle that is the interwebs. So it is hard for me not to treat things with a bit of sarcasm. But on another note, you could always watch Babymetal as a diversion: The Daily Dot - Japanese teen pop meets death metal in an explosion of awesome
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
The problem is that the real issues get buried under the hysteria. The amount of mentions of the light leak problem in the comments on the post about the firmware upgrades on DPReview (yeah I sometimes read the comments for giggles) is annoying in that because of the chaff, Sony will be sidelined from dealing with realer issues such as uncompressed RAW or shutter lag, etc. There are problems with this beta version of a camera (which it is to be honest, just as the D30 and D60 were for Canon way back when) which could do with really being dealt with rather than forcing a recall for a light leak issue which for real world use is almost a non issue.

BTW just watched the video in that link. The American concept of free speech is often woeful if it allows that kind of thing to be shows or advertised... :p
 

jfirneno

Member
HiredArm
...and yet many people are using longer lenses with success.

Ben Rubinstein
Problem is that if you have to have these intricate double clamp tripod mounts and/or dead weights, honestly, why not just get a D800 and get AF which can deal with what most people are using longer lenses for (i.e. not landscape)? It just seems that with all the hoops you have to jump through, the advantages of the A7r are negated.

nostatic
Because it is far easier to buy something and then complain about it on the inter webs. And if you blog, pointing out these horrific problems that put the public at peril will drive clicks to your site.

Shutter shake is one of the greatest dangers to modern society. It must be stopped! Somebody should start a petition or something. Perhaps some strongly worded letters...


I definitely see both points of view. When the shutter shake talk began I was concerned, so I did some testing with a 200 mm Minolta lens and the LAEA3 adapter. I found absolutely no problem. Now I don't doubt that you can generate vibration with the A7R. What I'm not sure about is how this compares to other cameras using long lenses (especially on adapters). For instance, if you attach a 600mm lens to a DSLR does it need some kind of dampening or extra support to prevent vibration? Either way, I don't think it's a disaster. But I guess some people would be unhappy about it. The problem is some people go a little overboard either innocently or for the drama effect.

Regards,
John
 

alajuela

Active member
Hi

I have been watching this discussion for quite a while – I don’t have dog in this fight as I am too overwhelmed right now using equipment I have. I find a lot of it interesting, especially the discussion on alternative lenses.

I would think that somebody, somewhere would get a vibration meter and either check the specific lens (or focal tipping point) , and / or body or with specific adapter. To at least quantify the resonation / vibration issue.

Just a thought
Phil
 

horshack

New member
Hi

I have been watching this discussion for quite a while – I don’t have dog in this fight as I am too overwhelmed right now using equipment I have. I find a lot of it interesting, especially the discussion on alternative lenses.

I would think that somebody, somewhere would get a vibration meter and either check the specific lens (or focal tipping point) , and / or body or with specific adapter. To at least quantify the resonation / vibration issue.

Just a thought
Phil
It's been done:

Sony a7R testing, part 1 | The Last Word
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Here we go again.

Some other site just tested the Canon 5D-III and Nikon D800 using the same light leak criteria … guess what? Just as bad or worse.

I have no doubt that with certain adapters and certain lenses, shutter vibrations happen. Like Ben said, if you use that sort of thing on a regular basis, use something else. For those who do it only occasionally, then the steady rigs may be worth it. Had to do that with a few camera/lens combinations in past … nothing new there.

Fault finding has indeed become a "cottage industry" … often ballyhooing a minor issue to the heavens while real ones become hidden in the cacophony.

- Marc
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
My 2 cents: it does happen. For example, handheld with the 24-70 at 70mm with OSS on, you need 1/200th rather than 1/125th or 1/160th - the results are fairly consistent, I shot a lot today and found them to be so. But sh*t happens with every system and you learn where the weak spots are and work around them.

Trouble with variable phenomena is that they are hard to 'prove' and therefore easy for manufacturers to disclaim. That leaves us to take it or leave it.
 
I'm yet to pick up my Sony A7R from Mikes Camera.

From wide to medium telephoto, I have my MFDB tech camera setup. I'm looking for a high MP camera which I can use in lowlight with higher ISO and Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II,

Camera companies doesn’t admit defects and doesn’t tell what doesn’t work. Either we experience after using it or from other photographer’s experience. That is one of the reason we participate in forum like GetDPI.

From Joe’s review, I consider that I’m well informed now.

I also have friends in this forum (whom I had opportunity to meet with in person), who are very happy with Sony A7R, understands it’s limitation and works around it. Every camera has it’s own limitation including $40K MFDBs.

It is really disgusting when I see people are accusing that the person like Joe is writing this review to get click on this website. His website is not a subscription service, hence he doesn’t earn any money from his website.

Those who don’t know about Joe, he was the author of ColorBlind Prove It! Software for monitor calibration system and creator of seven RGB working spaces including Ekta Space PS 5, J. Holmes. Several imaging companies consulted him for color management and he is very well known among the photographer’s circle who’s works gets represented by Ansel Adam’s galley.

So I can assure you, he doesn’t have to write some sh**t to get clicks on his website. You may not agree with his point of view, or it may not be relevant to your style of photography, but there is no need to be sarcastic.
 

nostatic

New member
It is really disgusting when I see people are accusing that the person like Joe is writing this review to get click on this website. His website is not a subscription service, hence he doesn’t earn any money from his website.
Just to clarify, I wasn't necessarily talking about his site in my "sarcastic" reference. There are numerous other "review" sites that get money by click-throughs and ads.

That said, please note that he sells prints and workshops on his site, so it very much is a commercial venture. Any traffic driven to that site will serve essentially as free advertising for those commercial services. He likely does earn money from his website.
 
Just to clarify, I wasn't necessarily talking about his site in my "sarcastic" reference. There are numerous other "review" sites that get money by click-throughs and ads.

That said, please note that he sells prints and workshops on his site, so it very much is a commercial venture. Any traffic driven to that site will serve essentially as free advertising for those commercial services. He likely does earn money from his website.
I agree with you that many of the websites are like that. But I do not agree that he has published this article to earn money. His workshops gets marketed by West Coast Imaging, a very reputed Drum Scanning & Printing Lab. His workshop page was last updated in 2009.

He doesn't need to sell his prints via website. He gets represented by Art Consultants and Galleries. How many photographers are able to sell fine art via online website? How many art buyers will buy prints for $350 - $1600 w/o looking into the print quality? Usually people may order online once they see the real art work in some shows / galleries. That's the reality.

Do you believe art buyers who can spend $350 for an unmatted 11"x14" prints for $350 or 40 x 50 for $1600 has any concern about Sony A7R shutter vibration or medium format DSLR's focus issue, so they will come and visit his website to read his articles? Success of online marketing happens with targeted audience.

On other hand, Lloyd Chambers tested and returned his camera, however Joe is trying to find a workable solution for his own needs. He believes that SONY A7R has good potential once this shutter shake problem gets resolved for long lenses @ 200mm focal length, in vertical position, for shutter speed btw. 1/10th and 1/80th.

You and I may not agree (we don't have to), however I think he is serving the photographers community very well.

Meanwhile, I picked up my SONY A7R from the store today and will try it in coming weekend once my RRS L plate arrives.

Light leak problem for TS-E lenses will get addressed in the next version of the adapters... those are 3rd party adapters, so Sony has nothing to do with it.

What will be interesting is to see how Sony's native long lenses will work on A7R once Sony ships those. Joe might provide another update with a potential solution (if he finds a problem).
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
My 2 cents: it does happen. For example, handheld with the 24-70 at 70mm with OSS on, you need 1/200th rather than 1/125th or 1/160th
I had hoped that OSS would mitigate this issue but I guess not based on your post. I don't have that lens so I cannot test for myself. My style of shooting is all tripod based so I am fairly frustrated with this issue...... enough so that I have resurrected my 800e which I am very happy I didn't sell...

Victor
 

stephengilbert

Active member
"Here we go again."

Literally. Weren't these articles discussed months ago, when they first came out?

When I saw the title fo this thread, I thought there was new information.
 

mbroomfield

New member
"Here we go again."

Literally. Weren't these articles discussed months ago, when they first came out?

When I saw the title fo this thread, I thought there was new information.
+1, I don't see why it's being rehashed.

In other news SAR reports that Sony have identified an assembly problem that leads to the light leak.
 
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