From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Uses

[philip_pj]

Material is gathering that the Nikonistas have a shared opinion that the a7r is just a small and rather poor digital back, suitable only for tripod work sitting in front of their lenses. Mr Holmes and Mr Chambers have written about using it this way; Mr Hogan recommends the a7 not the a7r, and I read that Mr Borg feels this way too:

'If I want small size and weight and going to handhold A7r is out of question. The way I see A7r -- it is more of a slightly crippled digital back than a camera.'

I mention this as it just might be at the heart of the matter, poorly founded and misguided as the claims are. I have the feeling that the establishment were prepared to grant that Sony made a reasonable 24Mp camera in the a7 - they had been softened up by the RX1 maybe - but that something as outrageously good as the a7r is just a bridge too far. So the fault finding moved into overdrive and has not let up. The program seems to lack any sense of proportion WRT other cameras' foibles, of which there is no shortage.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

End of day I don't really care what they think, recommend or not recommend. I'm getting great images regardless both handheld and tripod and if I did not I have a A7 right next to it in my bag collecting dust. So from a Pro I am bucking there comments daily, thank you very much. I wish I could say what I really want to say but I'm holding my tongue on this subject. It's a overblown issue just like every other cameras overblown issues. There is a time to just turn off the valve and go take care of business.

 

[nostatic]

There is a time to just turn off the valve and go take care of business.

So you're going to have a 30 second "light leak", and then "turn off the valve", then "take care of business."

Sounds like you're having more fun than I am... :ROTFL:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Lol I wish.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

I agree with you Guy, we'll let the 'experts' do all the talking while we do the shooting.

 

[hcubell]

I tried to take an image with my 85mm Nikon lens at 100 ISO at 1/60 second tripod mounted with 2 second delay. Did I get a clear image.... Nope!! Do I care.... Yup!! One is very different than the other....YMMV!! I really do think that Sony should have advertised this as an image enhancement blur effect.

Victor

I guess you also aren't interested in joining the Flat Earth Society.

 

[vjbelle]

I guess you also aren't interested in joining the Flat Earth Society.

So Clever..... Maybe you could get more to your point as its lost to me... or maybe better yet you could comment on your personal experiences with the A7r. How's that Sony working out for you?

Victor

 

[hcubell]

So Clever..... Maybe you could get more to your point as its lost to me... or maybe better yet you could comment on your personal experiences with the A7r. How's that Sony working out for you?

Victor

The chorus of those who deny the existence of shutter shake with the A7R and longer lenses reminds me of those that insisted that the Earth was flat, despite the scientific proof to the contrary, and inssist that it's a bunch of crap propagated by guys pushing clicks to websites who are obsessed with testing camera/lens performance rather than creating evocative photographs. You know, guys like Joe Holmes and Huntington Witherill.
The Sony is working out great for me, so far. I am totally infatuated. I have a few photographs from this Winter in Vermont that I am quite happy with. No doubt I COULD have made the same photographs with my IQ180 with some extra resolution, but I just would not have gone traipsing through 24" of snow in a field at 2 degrees Fahrenheit. The A7R has come along at a point in my life where I just resist the prospect of carrying a 35lb. pack of Hasselblad/IQ180 equipment very far from my car. The Sony offers up an amazing level of image quality and functionality in a tiny and lightweight package. OTOH, I have not mounted a lens longer than the FE 24-70mm lens on it, and longer lenses are more important to me than wider. Just the way I see. I have some FE 70-200mm lenses on order. Should be interesting.

 

[nostatic]

I guess you also aren't interested in joining the Flat Earth Society.

For most people, and most intents and purposes, the earth is indeed "flat." There are few implications for the "roundness" in daily life. So while the metaphor was perhaps intended as derisive, it actually points to the scope of the problem. For some small percentage, it may be an issue. For most, it will go un-noticed.

Now if you'll forgive me I need to do some blood letting. Where did I put my leeches?!?

 

[vjbelle]

The A7R has come along at a point in my life where I just resist the prospect of carrying a 35lb. pack of Hasselblad/IQ180 equipment very far from my car.

Well, we are in the same camp with regards to carrying around extra weight.... although I have shed some with my Alpa its not enough and your IQ180 weighs the same as my IQ180 and its a PITA to carry around. My next trip is to Spain and for sure the Alpa stays home and the Sony comes with me along with my 800e. The 800e has none of the shutter issues ( at least not significent ) that plague my A7r but I like my Sony a lot and try to work around those issues.... sometimes I just can't. Maybe, just maybe the firmware update will address this issue..... for sure the next camera iteration will.

Victor

 

[hcubell]

For some small percentage, it may be an issue. For most, it will go un-noticed.

Sure, but then why all the derisive and sarcastic comments directed at those for whom it is an issue?

 

[nostatic]

You're assuming it is directed at them - it isn't. It is directed at the "sky is falling" masses (*cough* dpr *cough*), many of whom have never shot the camera. And maybe a bit at those bloggers who consistently turn molehills into mountains.

As my therapist told me many years ago, "not everything is about you..."

 

[hcubell]

You're assuming it is directed at them - it isn't. It is directed at the "sky is falling" masses (*cough* dpr *cough*), many of whom have never shot the camera. And maybe a bit at those bloggers who consistently turn molehills into mountains.

As my therapist told me many years ago, "not everything is about you..."

Really? You may want to go back and look at the title of this thread, the original post and your post, which immediately turned the direction of the discussion away from the merits of the issue and possible solutions to a series of derisive comments. So, perhaps your comments weren't directed at Joe Holmes in your mind, but you sure fooled me.

 

[tashley]

C'mon guys, the benefit of this place (apart from the wonderful company) is that it isn't DPR.

 

[nostatic]

I guess I try to find the humor in life instead of taking things like this so seriously. Really...it is a camera. Talk about your first-world problems.

Apologies to anyone who was offended. I am reminded of the words of SGT Hulka:

Psyco - Lighten up Francis - YouTube

 

[nostatic]

C'mon guys, the benefit of this place (apart from the wonderful company) is that it isn't DPR.

wait....IT ISN"T?!?!?

damn, I'm typing in the wrong browser window. Mea culpa. Now I'm wondering what I typed on plasticpoodleworship.com

 

[vjbelle]

OTOH, I have not mounted a lens longer than the FE 24-70mm lens on it, and longer lenses are more important to me than wider. Just the way I see. I have some FE 70-200mm lenses on order. Should be interesting.

Once again we are in the very same camp. I would much prefer to do a three shot 50mm than a one shot 35mm. More resolution, very easy and fast to do and I end up with a 57mp 4X3. I have not gone beyond 135mm with the A7r and was disappointed with the lenses. My bad luck..... I had really hoped that the Leica 135 would work out but it didn't and I got a bummer copy of the Zeiss 135mm. I was getting real scared mounting the Zeiss 135 to the A7r.... 2 lbs on the front of that little puppy is a lot of weight and the additional length of the adapter only added to my concerns. Most everything I take stops at 100mm.... add the 50mm and 95% of what I take is covered.
So I have lots of choices for travel as I have a 50mm Summicron M and a 90mm Summicron Apo M along with a Zeiss 50mm Macro Planar and 100mm Zeiss Macro Planar. The Sony Zeiss 35mm fills the wide end. Its called easy traveling....

Good luck with those heavy long guys......

Victor

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Personally, I'd like to know about any camera issues before a purchase - it's called research. No "sky is falling mentality", only user experience can determine a cameras functionality. Keep it coming, as I'll be using a A7 for an upcoming shoot, and any known workarounds are appreciated, but not the sarcasm.

 

[hcubell]

Once again we are in the very same camp. I would much prefer to do a three shot 50mm than a one shot 35mm. More resolution, very easy and fast to do and I end up with a 57mp 4X3. I have not gone beyond 135mm with the A7r and was disappointed with the lenses. My bad luck..... I had really hoped that the Leica 135 would work out but it didn't and I got a bummer copy of the Zeiss 135mm. I was getting real scared mounting the Zeiss 135 to the A7r.... 2 lbs on the front of that little puppy is a lot of weight and the additional length of the adapter only added to my concerns. Most everything I take stops at 100mm.... add the 50mm and 95% of what I take is covered.
So I have lots of choices for travel as I have a 50mm Summicron M and a 90mm Summicron Apo M along with a Zeiss 50mm Macro Planar and 100mm Zeiss Macro Planar. The Sony Zeiss 35mm fills the wide end. Its called easy traveling....

Good luck with those heavy long guys......

Victor

Thanks, I hope it works out with the FE 70-200. My plan is to take the A7R with the FE 24-70, the FE 55 1.8 and the FE 70-200 on a long trip to India in the Fall. (I may even sneak in a small CF Gitzo when my wife isn't looking.)
BTW, there is a review of the A7 and A7R at bythom.com, which has what purports to be a lens roadmap for FE lenses.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Victor when I hit the one and only shutter vibration issue was with the Zeiss 135 f 2 ZF.2 on a vertical. Once in many many images but I have yet to see it on my Sony 135 1.8 yet. Honestly past this length is not the biggest concern of mine maybe 300 at the most but even than my shutter speeds are very high up here anyway. Obviously I can find a workaround pretty easy to dance around this issue so I really don't worry about it. I am aware of it no question but to me its a easy issue to dance around as I did with all my Phase bodies which where worse as it was in the 1/30 of a second range with a 300 which actually was a bad shooting spot . I hit it on 1/100 on a vertical with the Sony which for me I picked up on it right in the LCD and made a quick fix. That was much harder on a phase P back by a country mile. I think the real point of this thread it was brought up months ago and it's just old boring news but some people have taken exception to constantly keep dropping the ball on it to generate revenue on there site and that's what really pisses me off. Report your findings than move on is how Professional or so called Professional reviewers should inform the masses. Not keep chewing out spew to ruin a companies reputation. Which is what I see lately. That's not good journalism that's revenue seeking. I give Joe credit for not doing that but not some others. Frankly I think we should close this thread as I see some real member trouble going on and it's not wanted by other members including me. So if we can't get back to the real issue or much better yet indeed is coming up with some good solutions to help avoid the issue. But I will say this is not all Sonys fault either this is adapting non sony lenses as well which Sony has no responsibility for. The only thing they are responsible for is the design of the shutter good bad or indifferent it is what it is and we have a firmware update coming and there maybe a fix. There are a couple ways technically to do this and one I said from day one was put in a 4 second timer option in. Hit the shutter it closes than waits 2 seconds to kill the vibration than records the data than closes. That's exactly how it's done with a mirrored camera aka Nikon D800 series. They could do exactly the same just no mirror in place. Other suggestions have been made which sounds like they would work also. So let's see what they do but finding workarounds is what I have done and its a good suggestion for others to do the same okay I'm going to go do what I do best , go shoot and I'm bringing my 135 with me too. Lol

Have a great day all and remember this is GetDPI a place to learn , share and help each other. Just thought I would bring that up in case anyone was confused.