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Thread: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Uses

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    From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Uses


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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    ...and yet many people are using longer lenses with success.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Problem is that if you have to have these intricate double clamp tripod mounts and/or dead weights, honestly, why not just get a D800 and get AF which can deal with what most people are using longer lenses for (i.e. not landscape)? It just seems that with all the hoops you have to jump through, the advantages of the A7r are negated.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Problem is that if you have to have these intricate double clamp tripod mounts and/or dead weights, honestly, why not just get a D800 and get AF which can deal with what most people are using longer lenses for (i.e. not landscape)? It just seems that with all the hoops you have to jump through, the advantages of the A7r are negated.
    Because it is far easier to buy something and then complain about it on the inter webs. And if you blog, pointing out these horrific problems that put the public at peril will drive clicks to your site.

    Shutter shake is one of the greatest dangers to modern society. It must be stopped! Somebody should start a petition or something. Perhaps some strongly worded letters...
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Not sure it calls for the sarcasm? By knowing what the potential problems are we know better whether to buy or choose our equipment. By your criteria the M8 problem with blacks would never have been discovered until people had spent their money on the camera. The Canon 1D3 fiasco would never have been fixed. These are all real problems with day to day shooting. A review like his gives us a very important message. Don't buy this camera to shoot long lenses with. I don't think that such data should be suppressed. I knew of the problem prior to buying but as my longest lens is an 85mm I decided to go ahead. I did however appreciate the ability to choose. The manufacturers would far prefer that I did not.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    The sarcasm is due to the hysteria that gets whipped up certain places (thankfully not here) about "issues." I have no doubt that shutter shock is a problem for some small number of users. But the self-importance of certain "internet pontificators" leading a charge on the front gate of the evil Sony empire to free the slaves and protect the children bemuses me.

    On another note: Do concerns about Sony A7 light leaks hold water?

    This is all the rage on dpr (well, the "problem") and I imaging hundreds of A7(r) users sitting in dark rooms with flashlights repeatedly doing 30-second iso 25600 exposures in hopes of catching the elusive Light Leak. And now the same thing is happening with the XT1 - evidently if you shoot with the port covers open you get light leaks.

    There are real problems for real people, and then there are teapot tempests for the keyboard warriors. It can be hard to separate those due to the 24/7 "news" cycle that is the interwebs. So it is hard for me not to treat things with a bit of sarcasm. But on another note, you could always watch Babymetal as a diversion: The Daily Dot - Japanese teen pop meets death metal in an explosion of awesome
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    The problem is that the real issues get buried under the hysteria. The amount of mentions of the light leak problem in the comments on the post about the firmware upgrades on DPReview (yeah I sometimes read the comments for giggles) is annoying in that because of the chaff, Sony will be sidelined from dealing with realer issues such as uncompressed RAW or shutter lag, etc. There are problems with this beta version of a camera (which it is to be honest, just as the D30 and D60 were for Canon way back when) which could do with really being dealt with rather than forcing a recall for a light leak issue which for real world use is almost a non issue.

    BTW just watched the video in that link. The American concept of free speech is often woeful if it allows that kind of thing to be shows or advertised...
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    HiredArm
    ...and yet many people are using longer lenses with success.

    Ben Rubinstein
    Problem is that if you have to have these intricate double clamp tripod mounts and/or dead weights, honestly, why not just get a D800 and get AF which can deal with what most people are using longer lenses for (i.e. not landscape)? It just seems that with all the hoops you have to jump through, the advantages of the A7r are negated.

    nostatic
    Because it is far easier to buy something and then complain about it on the inter webs. And if you blog, pointing out these horrific problems that put the public at peril will drive clicks to your site.

    Shutter shake is one of the greatest dangers to modern society. It must be stopped! Somebody should start a petition or something. Perhaps some strongly worded letters...


    I definitely see both points of view. When the shutter shake talk began I was concerned, so I did some testing with a 200 mm Minolta lens and the LAEA3 adapter. I found absolutely no problem. Now I don't doubt that you can generate vibration with the A7R. What I'm not sure about is how this compares to other cameras using long lenses (especially on adapters). For instance, if you attach a 600mm lens to a DSLR does it need some kind of dampening or extra support to prevent vibration? Either way, I don't think it's a disaster. But I guess some people would be unhappy about it. The problem is some people go a little overboard either innocently or for the drama effect.

    Regards,
    John

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Hi

    I have been watching this discussion for quite a while – I don’t have dog in this fight as I am too overwhelmed right now using equipment I have. I find a lot of it interesting, especially the discussion on alternative lenses.

    I would think that somebody, somewhere would get a vibration meter and either check the specific lens (or focal tipping point) , and / or body or with specific adapter. To at least quantify the resonation / vibration issue.

    Just a thought
    Phil

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by alajuela View Post
    Hi

    I have been watching this discussion for quite a while – I don’t have dog in this fight as I am too overwhelmed right now using equipment I have. I find a lot of it interesting, especially the discussion on alternative lenses.

    I would think that somebody, somewhere would get a vibration meter and either check the specific lens (or focal tipping point) , and / or body or with specific adapter. To at least quantify the resonation / vibration issue.

    Just a thought
    Phil
    It's been done:

    Sony a7R testing, part 1 | The Last Word
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by horshack View Post

    Thanks I'll check it out, should be interesting.

    Thanks again

    Phil

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Here we go again.

    Some other site just tested the Canon 5D-III and Nikon D800 using the same light leak criteria … guess what? Just as bad or worse.

    I have no doubt that with certain adapters and certain lenses, shutter vibrations happen. Like Ben said, if you use that sort of thing on a regular basis, use something else. For those who do it only occasionally, then the steady rigs may be worth it. Had to do that with a few camera/lens combinations in past … nothing new there.

    Fault finding has indeed become a "cottage industry" … often ballyhooing a minor issue to the heavens while real ones become hidden in the cacophony.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    My 2 cents: it does happen. For example, handheld with the 24-70 at 70mm with OSS on, you need 1/200th rather than 1/125th or 1/160th - the results are fairly consistent, I shot a lot today and found them to be so. But sh*t happens with every system and you learn where the weak spots are and work around them.

    Trouble with variable phenomena is that they are hard to 'prove' and therefore easy for manufacturers to disclaim. That leaves us to take it or leave it.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    I'm yet to pick up my Sony A7R from Mikes Camera.

    From wide to medium telephoto, I have my MFDB tech camera setup. I'm looking for a high MP camera which I can use in lowlight with higher ISO and Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II,

    Camera companies doesn’t admit defects and doesn’t tell what doesn’t work. Either we experience after using it or from other photographer’s experience. That is one of the reason we participate in forum like GetDPI.

    From Joe’s review, I consider that I’m well informed now.

    I also have friends in this forum (whom I had opportunity to meet with in person), who are very happy with Sony A7R, understands it’s limitation and works around it. Every camera has it’s own limitation including $40K MFDBs.

    It is really disgusting when I see people are accusing that the person like Joe is writing this review to get click on this website. His website is not a subscription service, hence he doesn’t earn any money from his website.

    Those who don’t know about Joe, he was the author of ColorBlind Prove It! Software for monitor calibration system and creator of seven RGB working spaces including Ekta Space PS 5, J. Holmes. Several imaging companies consulted him for color management and he is very well known among the photographer’s circle who’s works gets represented by Ansel Adam’s galley.

    So I can assure you, he doesn’t have to write some sh**t to get clicks on his website. You may not agree with his point of view, or it may not be relevant to your style of photography, but there is no need to be sarcastic.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    It is really disgusting when I see people are accusing that the person like Joe is writing this review to get click on this website. His website is not a subscription service, hence he doesn’t earn any money from his website.
    Just to clarify, I wasn't necessarily talking about his site in my "sarcastic" reference. There are numerous other "review" sites that get money by click-throughs and ads.

    That said, please note that he sells prints and workshops on his site, so it very much is a commercial venture. Any traffic driven to that site will serve essentially as free advertising for those commercial services. He likely does earn money from his website.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Just to clarify, I wasn't necessarily talking about his site in my "sarcastic" reference. There are numerous other "review" sites that get money by click-throughs and ads.

    That said, please note that he sells prints and workshops on his site, so it very much is a commercial venture. Any traffic driven to that site will serve essentially as free advertising for those commercial services. He likely does earn money from his website.
    I agree with you that many of the websites are like that. But I do not agree that he has published this article to earn money. His workshops gets marketed by West Coast Imaging, a very reputed Drum Scanning & Printing Lab. His workshop page was last updated in 2009.

    He doesn't need to sell his prints via website. He gets represented by Art Consultants and Galleries. How many photographers are able to sell fine art via online website? How many art buyers will buy prints for $350 - $1600 w/o looking into the print quality? Usually people may order online once they see the real art work in some shows / galleries. That's the reality.

    Do you believe art buyers who can spend $350 for an unmatted 11"x14" prints for $350 or 40 x 50 for $1600 has any concern about Sony A7R shutter vibration or medium format DSLR's focus issue, so they will come and visit his website to read his articles? Success of online marketing happens with targeted audience.

    On other hand, Lloyd Chambers tested and returned his camera, however Joe is trying to find a workable solution for his own needs. He believes that SONY A7R has good potential once this shutter shake problem gets resolved for long lenses @ 200mm focal length, in vertical position, for shutter speed btw. 1/10th and 1/80th.

    You and I may not agree (we don't have to), however I think he is serving the photographers community very well.

    Meanwhile, I picked up my SONY A7R from the store today and will try it in coming weekend once my RRS L plate arrives.

    Light leak problem for TS-E lenses will get addressed in the next version of the adapters... those are 3rd party adapters, so Sony has nothing to do with it.

    What will be interesting is to see how Sony's native long lenses will work on A7R once Sony ships those. Joe might provide another update with a potential solution (if he finds a problem).

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    My 2 cents: it does happen. For example, handheld with the 24-70 at 70mm with OSS on, you need 1/200th rather than 1/125th or 1/160th
    I had hoped that OSS would mitigate this issue but I guess not based on your post. I don't have that lens so I cannot test for myself. My style of shooting is all tripod based so I am fairly frustrated with this issue...... enough so that I have resurrected my 800e which I am very happy I didn't sell...

    Victor

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    "Here we go again."

    Literally. Weren't these articles discussed months ago, when they first came out?

    When I saw the title fo this thread, I thought there was new information.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "Here we go again."

    Literally. Weren't these articles discussed months ago, when they first came out?

    When I saw the title fo this thread, I thought there was new information.
    +1, I don't see why it's being rehashed.

    In other news SAR reports that Sony have identified an assembly problem that leads to the light leak.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    +2

    Old news. Way over it too. Go look at the fun threads that's what counts.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Sony has reported vibration issues and light leaks, shooters say to ignore it, making images is what counts.

    Leica has color casts on it's sensor and shooters say ignore it and go make images, it's easy to fix in post.

    Nikon has a left AF sensor out of whack and shooters come out of there chairs complaining about how any responsible camera manufacturer could let such an egregious defect slip by them.

    Just sayin, seems like a double-standard... If Joe Holmes says there is a shutter vibration issue in the A7r, I'm gonna believe it. It may not pertain to me the way I use the camera, but it's certainly good to know it's there.

    I personally agree with the just shoot em crowd, but still suspect my positioning it this way won't be popular here today
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Nikon right side was out of whack also. The Sony light issue is a freaking joke. Who the hell sits in a dark room pumps up the ISO to 6400 and takes a 30 second exposure. Jack you forget every Phase body from AFD 1,2,3, Df, Df+ has a shutter vibration issue and so do other focal plane shutters. Now 20k images i have shot and seen it once, I could give a **** to be honest . Just like any system there are problems and there are work arounds. Frankly Im a little sick of the Nikon folks stuffing this crap down our throats and honestly never shot the damn Sonys but made judgement calls on it. There I said it and with that I'm out of here. I had enough of this crap.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Sony has reported vibration issues and light leaks, shooters say to ignore it, making images is what counts.

    Leica has color casts on it's sensor and shooters say ignore it and go make images, it's easy to fix in post.

    Nikon has a left AF sensor out of whack and shooters come out of there chairs complaining about how any responsible camera manufacturer could let such an egregious defect slip by them.

    Just sayin, seems like a double-standard...

    I personally agree with the just shoot em crowd, but still suspect my positioning it this way won't be popular here today
    If you go to most of the other discussion sites, Sony is getting hammered on it. The "ignore and shoot" crowd are in the minority. Leica has always gotten criticized, mostly due to price. Canikon gets beat up by the opposing fanbois fairly non-stop.

    I don't see any double-standard. More like situation normal - some will take potshots from the keyboard and descend into theoretical nonsense while others will just take pictures and enjoy their hobby/work. You can pretty much just swap the brand names out - they all get both a free pass from the fans and an overzealous spanking from the critics simultaneously.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    You can pretty much just swap the brand names out - they all get both a free pass from the fans and an overzealous spanking from the critics simultaneously.
    Excellent -- this is EXACTLY what my point was.

    I made it the way I made it, because I believe there are hiccups with EVERY system regardless of who makes it. It doesn't make any camera less attractive, but it's good to be aware of potential pitfalls. Example for me is the left AF point in Nikon D800 -- I only ever use the center point, so it was a non-issue for me; but for folks that shot people in vertical a lot, and rotated the cam left side up, it was a huge deal. Good to know about regardless. Sub point was the larger cam manufacturers have bigger targets on their backs, that's all.

    When digital was young, a standard practice test was the 30 second dark frame to evaluate noise. Am I the only one that remembers that?

    So yeah, any new camera is going to have a fault of some kind, and more importantly, with the raw numbers of users coupled with the flow of information on the net, we are going to find and hear about all of them.

    That's really all my point was.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Not exactly how you said it but your explanation is a lot better. LOL

    My comment maybe a little off the wall but this stuff gets so tiring to hear day in day out and all these systems are just short of a train wreck. Not much we as consumers can do but what I always have done was try to figure out the workarounds and I suggest that to all of us. Okay we know several folks found problems with the shutter vibration which is not uncommon as we have discussed but some people are way over the top(not hear but elsewhere to the point its a broken record and pretty lame i have to say). This is not how we approach photography is dwell on the problems but find solutions that work and I see more complaining than solutions. It gets annoying so pardon my comments . My ears are just full. LOL

    I need to go buy another lens now. LOL

    I did order the 24-70 and waiting for the brown truck now. Such a slut. I blame Tim and Jono for this one. I need someone to blame so either or both works for me. ROTFLMAO

    I do give Tim credit though for really working the 24-70 and posting all of his findings here . That helped members including me and that has great. Thanks Tim


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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Excellent -- this is EXACTLY what my point was.

    I made it the way I made it, because I believe there are hiccups with EVERY system regardless of who makes it. It doesn't make any camera less attractive, but it's good to be aware of potential pitfalls. Example for me is the left AF point in Nikon D800 -- I only ever use the center point, so it was a non-issue for me; but for folks that shot people in vertical a lot, and rotated the cam left side up, it was a huge deal. Good to know about regardless. Sub point was the larger cam manufacturers have bigger targets on their backs, that's all.

    When digital was young, a standard practice test was the 30 second dark frame to evaluate noise. Am I the only one that remembers that?

    So yeah, any new camera is going to have a fault of some kind, and more importantly, with the raw numbers of users coupled with the flow of information on the net, we are going to find and hear about all of them.

    That's really all my point was.
    I bet I have owned fifty camera bodies over my lifetime. Not one was perfect. Well, second thought, maybe my M6 was close to perfect, you didn't even need to have a battery for it to work.

    If I live long enough, I am liable to own another fifty camera bodies. I highly doubt even one of those will be perfect. There is simply no such a thing. Just like one man's "feature" is another man's problem.

    The old "lens cap on, fire a dark frame to look for noise" still applies. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes due to my forgetting to remove the damn lens cap, but always at least once with every new camera body

    I think the issue today is the internet "megaphone effect." Every nit seems to get amplified to the point of a major issue. I see no problem reporting issues. People have a right to know, and that is what groups and forums are for, to inform, advise, share findings and present facts. But I couldn't agree more, how some of this stuff takes off is just wild.

    A great example is the whole A7 light leak thing. I had a good laugh when I first read that, I thought it a joke. Then realized it was intended as a serious article. Too many years shooting view cameras for me, I guess. Some of my old large format bellows make that "light leak" absurd. My old Wista was so bad if you fired a strobe inside the bellows in a dark room, you could have an AstroLabe planetarium projection on the ceiling. That bellows had more light leaks than Bayer has aspirin.

    Besides, light leaks are cool. Would anyone ever buy a Holga WITHOUT light leaks and lens womp?
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    The sanest man in the universe just tested for it, quantified it, diagnosed it, put it in perspective and fixed it....
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    If only my camera did not leak light, if only my lens were sharper, the bokeh better, the....

    Sure, there are problems here and there (like the real issue with D600 shutters spraying oil over sensors, or A7R shutter vibration with long lenses for some people), but does this fashion for finding problems fit into the category of 'looking for excuses'? Maybe it just distracts people from the pressures of making good photos?

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Thanks for pointing out that link Tim.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Just taking a time out while setting up and planning a bit Lord of the Rings stylesque type shoot for Tuesday. I need water frozen in movement in the image and am using a sound trigger on the flash to get that effect, camera shot in bulb. Not kidding, the shutter keeps triggering the sound trigger. Being a pro, instead of panicking I gaffered over the sound sensor and now the shutter isn't triggering it but the exploding balloon is. Did find it funny though that the shutter is setting off my sound trigger which usually takes a loud bang to fire
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Senior Member JoelM's Avatar
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Well, I'm guessing that film cameras likely fail light tight testing at ISO 25,600 and for 30 seconds. I'm going down to the corner camera shop and pick up some Kodachrome 25,600 and I'll report my results tomorrow... or shortly after.

    Joel

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Lol

    I am finding this light leak pretty funny myself. If there is a easy fix that takes a day than great. But 10 days in the shop than it ain't going to happen for me. I know one thing it will never affect me in the first place. If I'm in a dark room that needs ISO 6400 for 30 seconds than it better be sex related not camera. ROTFLMAO

    Sorry it just had to be said.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Oh Guy, trust you to lower the tone! 30 seconds? Now that IS fast...
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    So 30 seconds is enough for a light leak.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Dear oh dear...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    I better go test my 24-70 before I get in trouble here. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    "Light leak" - so that's what the kids are calling it these days...

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us



    waiting to see just how awful this will get...

    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    So I tried the light leak test...... ISO 12500 for 30 seconds with my Lupine Flashlight (that can blind you) shining around the lens mount. Was there light leak???.... Yup!. Do I care... Nope!!... will never effect me. I tried to take an image with my 85mm Nikon lens at 100 ISO at 1/60 second tripod mounted with 2 second delay. Did I get a clear image.... Nope!! Do I care.... Yup!! One is very different than the other....YMMV!! I really do think that Sony should have advertised this as an image enhancement blur effect.

    Victor

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Material is gathering that the Nikonistas have a shared opinion that the a7r is just a small and rather poor digital back, suitable only for tripod work sitting in front of their lenses. Mr Holmes and Mr Chambers have written about using it this way; Mr Hogan recommends the a7 not the a7r, and I read that Mr Borg feels this way too:

    'If I want small size and weight and going to handhold A7r is out of question. The way I see A7r -- it is more of a slightly crippled digital back than a camera.'

    I mention this as it just might be at the heart of the matter, poorly founded and misguided as the claims are. I have the feeling that the establishment were prepared to grant that Sony made a reasonable 24Mp camera in the a7 - they had been softened up by the RX1 maybe - but that something as outrageously good as the a7r is just a bridge too far. So the fault finding moved into overdrive and has not let up. The program seems to lack any sense of proportion WRT other cameras' foibles, of which there is no shortage.
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    End of day I don't really care what they think, recommend or not recommend. I'm getting great images regardless both handheld and tripod and if I did not I have a A7 right next to it in my bag collecting dust. So from a Pro I am bucking there comments daily, thank you very much. I wish I could say what I really want to say but I'm holding my tongue on this subject. It's a overblown issue just like every other cameras overblown issues. There is a time to just turn off the valve and go take care of business.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    There is a time to just turn off the valve and go take care of business.
    So you're going to have a 30 second "light leak", and then "turn off the valve", then "take care of business."

    Sounds like you're having more fun than I am...
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Lol I wish.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    I agree with you Guy, we'll let the 'experts' do all the talking while we do the shooting.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I tried to take an image with my 85mm Nikon lens at 100 ISO at 1/60 second tripod mounted with 2 second delay. Did I get a clear image.... Nope!! Do I care.... Yup!! One is very different than the other....YMMV!! I really do think that Sony should have advertised this as an image enhancement blur effect.

    Victor
    I guess you also aren't interested in joining the Flat Earth Society.

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    I guess you also aren't interested in joining the Flat Earth Society.
    So Clever..... Maybe you could get more to your point as its lost to me... or maybe better yet you could comment on your personal experiences with the A7r. How's that Sony working out for you?

    Victor

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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    So Clever..... Maybe you could get more to your point as its lost to me... or maybe better yet you could comment on your personal experiences with the A7r. How's that Sony working out for you?

    Victor
    The chorus of those who deny the existence of shutter shake with the A7R and longer lenses reminds me of those that insisted that the Earth was flat, despite the scientific proof to the contrary, and inssist that it's a bunch of crap propagated by guys pushing clicks to websites who are obsessed with testing camera/lens performance rather than creating evocative photographs. You know, guys like Joe Holmes and Huntington Witherill.
    The Sony is working out great for me, so far. I am totally infatuated. I have a few photographs from this Winter in Vermont that I am quite happy with. No doubt I COULD have made the same photographs with my IQ180 with some extra resolution, but I just would not have gone traipsing through 24" of snow in a field at 2 degrees Fahrenheit. The A7R has come along at a point in my life where I just resist the prospect of carrying a 35lb. pack of Hasselblad/IQ180 equipment very far from my car. The Sony offers up an amazing level of image quality and functionality in a tiny and lightweight package. OTOH, I have not mounted a lens longer than the FE 24-70mm lens on it, and longer lenses are more important to me than wider. Just the way I see. I have some FE 70-200mm lenses on order. Should be interesting.
    hcubell
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    I guess you also aren't interested in joining the Flat Earth Society.
    For most people, and most intents and purposes, the earth is indeed "flat." There are few implications for the "roundness" in daily life. So while the metaphor was perhaps intended as derisive, it actually points to the scope of the problem. For some small percentage, it may be an issue. For most, it will go un-noticed.

    Now if you'll forgive me I need to do some blood letting. Where did I put my leeches?!?
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    Re: From Joseph Holmes: Sony A7R Shutter From Shake Too Great for Many Longer Lens Us

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    The A7R has come along at a point in my life where I just resist the prospect of carrying a 35lb. pack of Hasselblad/IQ180 equipment very far from my car.
    Well, we are in the same camp with regards to carrying around extra weight.... although I have shed some with my Alpa its not enough and your IQ180 weighs the same as my IQ180 and its a PITA to carry around. My next trip is to Spain and for sure the Alpa stays home and the Sony comes with me along with my 800e. The 800e has none of the shutter issues ( at least not significent ) that plague my A7r but I like my Sony a lot and try to work around those issues.... sometimes I just can't. Maybe, just maybe the firmware update will address this issue..... for sure the next camera iteration will.

    Victor

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