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Thread: Decisions Decisions

  1. #51
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Which system has the most potential, both for some minor design fixes and a huge array of modern lenses, both AF and MF? It will get even harder to keep Sony out of your bank account when the more desirable FE prime lenses start appearing.

    It might be that the smaller formats are reaching a plateau, a lot of refinement and natty usability but not so much future. The a7/r is the opposite, in the 'just cranking up' phase of development. I figure file quality and good enough usability will win out in the end.

  2. #52
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Not paltry at all Marc. It's something I'd love to do, but there are times (like today), a long walk with the family, and it's great to shoot with AF and a zoom. Part of me says "to hell with it, buy an RX10" but I'm never happy with drab files.
    But it is still really tempting.
    I have the RX100ii and have tried the RX10 twice in my local shop. It is a compelling camera, and the zoom is pretty much idea for walkabout. AF was quick, you can grab video, etc. The 1" file is excellent for what it is, and gives u4/3 a run for its money. But it isn't APS-C, and certainly not FF. In good light if you watch the highlights it gets close. As the light gets worse, it falls off.

    I would love to see Sony do that camera in APS-C with a 24mp sensor. But probably would be much bigger/heavier.

    No free lunch. I just got back from a walkabout with the A7r and 24-70 and found myself wishing I had a prime on it. I can't imaging carrying that thing around with the Sony 70-200. Makes me rethink the Fuji option as I liked the balance with the 16-55 and the 55-200 could be about perfect. That said, the a6000 would make more sense.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    My end of day bottom line is I won't buy anything under 24mpx. Just not worth shooting under it. I know sounds snobbish but it's not more about if I'm going to take the time I want horsepower.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    pixels are over-rated if all you do is finish for prints smaller than 24 by 30.
    www.getdpi.com
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    For you maybe not for me . I want elbow room and for small stuff I just use my iPhone. I bought several of these small pixel cameras and I just felt so underwhelmed by the files that I figured why even bother making the effort. But I don't shoot like most people my shooting is usually for a purpose. I don't even take a camera on vacation most of the time. Obviously this comes from a different perspective than most people.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    One other factor is stock houses. If I want to just turn everything over to them they have certain stipulations on file size.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Hi Jono,

    1) With the A7, I could live with it being my only FF camera. Only time will add more quality native lenses. You could decide later! I really hope new firmware could improve Auto WB, it’s way-off compared to my Canon FF and Nikon cameras.
    2) Fuji Xt-1. Most of the reviews seem to come from fans or people stepping up from much lesser cameras, and have not experience a full array of systems such for use with flash or where Continuous auto focus and tracking is necessary, as of yet, I am not convinced. For where there is large selection of maturing glass and best in class APS-C sensor, I think IQ is there, but like I said no one make more of a statement from experience users to say this is a game changer, but more like it’s getting better!
    3) I still have my EM-5 but I hope to sell it sometime soon, just in no rush to do it. I also feel the EM-1 could possibly be a great camera, but I think for IQ, the Fuji will be better and the A7 the best of the bunch. The m3/4 sensor is a limiting factor for me.

    My compromise could be the Fuji XT-1 for myself, but for personal taste I rather like the A7 and no I could not live with the R version with this generation. Perhaps when they introduce a leaf shutter or electronic first curtain like you and other have repeated often, my credit cards might come out of hiding!

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    M for the RF and the lenses. A7 for the sensor, versatility with R glass and for this excellent 55mm. E-M1 for its ruggedness, performance and to give that brilliant 75 mm some workout. Except for the looks and for being the new kid on the block, I don`t see a compelling reason for the X-t1.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Jono: You probably know what I'd say.

    In the last six years, I've had 5 different Sonys (Nex 5n to the A7), 5 Fujis (X10 to XE-1), 9 Leicas (M7 to M), 5 Nikons (D300 to D3s), Olympus 0MD-EM5, and some others that I probably forgot about. I'm sure my flitting about isn't uncommon. I have the M and the A7 now.

    The M provides a satisfying experience and stellar results (subjective opinion). The A7 has great image quality and AF. Sure, I'd like smaller, more compact zooms, but in exchange for the FF, I'll forgo that. The new 24-70's a bit big. I'll live with that. Given my track record, we'll see how long.

    Keep the M and A7. An A7r and A6000 could be added in the future.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    In honor of this thread, I did a quick and dirty AF test between the A7r w/55/1.8 and Canon 6D w/24-105/4. Indoors, relatively low light, static objects. Was the Canon quicker? Slightly. Did the A7r hunt? Nope. Did one have a higher percentage of keepers? Nope - both did what was asked of them. Only real speed difference was the shutter - the Canon is quicker. I was a bit surprised as the conventional wisdom is that the A7(r) is relatively slow, especially compared to a dSLR. At least for AF-S, I'm not really seeing that play out.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    My end of day bottom line is I won't buy anything under 24mpx. Just not worth shooting under it. I know sounds snobbish but it's not more about if I'm going to take the time I want horsepower.

    Just remember though Guy that you are a professional who needs to be able to make money from anything you shoot. For amateurs the merciless pixel race isn't so necessary. Desirable, yes. Necessary, not so much.

    $0.02 ...
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post


    The M stays . . . . but 2 of the others must go . . . .
    Hi Jono,

    This is an easy decision for me.

    - I have zero interest in the Fujis.
    - I have a complete and excellent E-M1 kit that works brilliantly when I want a fast, responsive camera with auto capabilities.
    - I have better lenses for the A7 (Leica R lenses from 19mm to 180mm, a few select Nikkors too) than I do for the M9 (mostly Voigtländers), and the A7 body has a better sensor IMO.

    So I'll keep the E-M1 and the A7.

    Much as I like the M9, I've found it much harder to be comfortable with compared to the M4-2 or CL. I'll keep either of the CL or M4-2, and I'm leaning towards the CL at the moment.

    G

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Shoot a neutral field with a non-retrofocus wide and take a look at the corners.
    The wage is a retro as are R lenses. The Leica digital bodies are compensated for non-retro wides by the placement of their micro-lenses. The Sony was not specifically designed for that. 35 is not wide enough to demonstrate this realistically, but the 21 does. This has been widely reported.
    Of course this can be dealt with in post, but it is another thing to do.
    -bob
    Bob, I've been dealing with that color cast problem for over ten years, as have all of us that used a digital back on a view camera. Some back/lens combinations were more difficult than others, but If I used one extra post processing step as a reason to reject using a particular camera and lens, I would soon be out of anything to shoot with! As you point out, this kind of problem is well documented and easily dealt with in post when it occurs.

    I can understand where a JPG shooter mite be seriously impacted by this, and I can't blame them for choosing something else. Or a different wide lens. But for anyone that shoots RAW files? Not really that serious an issue, is it?

    I can also understand that video is not in the main stream workflow of most still photographers. That is a need for me. My camera selection criteria, decent video is a MUST now, not just an option. That sure cuts the field down quickly and considerably.

    For you Jono, Marc is absolutely correct. if you con't feel it shooting it, dump it dude. Life is too short for us old guys to bother trying to compensate for a camera system we don't feel good using. At our age, with our experience, we already know in our hearts what feels good within a few mins of picking it up. We should also probably know by now to go with that feeling and trust our hunches, but who am I to talk? Like you Jono, I have four systems headed to just one if I can do it.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post

    For you Jono, Marc is absolutely correct. if you con't feel it shooting it, dump it dude. Life is too short for us old guys to bother trying to compensate for a camera system we don't feel good using. At our age, with our experience, we already know in our hearts what feels good within a few mins of picking it up. We should also probably know by now to go with that feeling and trust our hunches, but who am I to talk? Like you Jono, I have four systems headed to just one if I can do it.


    My thoughts entirely. Gut feel really matters and what others think matters not a jot as you get older. (Oh, and I wish I only had four systems! )
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    It's your money and I don't want to tell you how you should spend it but I agree with those who said to shoot whatever you like. That is something that never needs to be justified to anyone. For me that means some variant of a Leica M and the Sony A7 series for now but I went through my Micro 4/3 phase as well prior to owning a M. I've made the A7 and A7r my main cameras now and the M9-P is probably going to get sent in to get a complete CLA and look over before I sell it for a Monochrom.

    They're all great cameras (they can all do what we ask of them even if some are better suited for certain jobs than others) but for me the question I had to ask myself is what's going to put out the best looking print on my or someone else's wall? That made my decision easier for me.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Hah - lots of great responses - I'm obviously alone in my dilemma!
    Gut response is all very well, but these are all fine cameras, so that each one provokes a gut response!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hah - lots of great responses - I'm obviously alone in my dilemma!
    Gut response is all very well, but these are all fine cameras, so that each one provokes a gut response!
    Yeah but any decision is subjective. Case in point the lack of EFC and the sound of shutter of the A7r is a deal breaker for you but isn't for many. The files of the M240 were a deal breaker for me (technically superior to the M9 or not) but many love and welcome them above the M9 files. Buy what you like and what works for you. Sell what doesn't towards something you will actually use.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I'll add one more, sure to be unpopular, opinion. It's always safer and easier offering opinions and making decisions for others than for yourself.

    I'd still keep the M240 (despite our disagreements on color rendering) and jettison all the rest.

    I have a nagging perception that all these other "modern" cameras have a digital look and feel to them. Not that digital is bad, but when it is too obvious it becomes unsettling for me. Hard to describe, but easy to spot when it is there.

    Many times it is the lack of realistic depth or initial impact even though the file is technically hard to fault. Oddly, this perception is what has kept me from loving the A99 over the A900 even though the A99 is the better over-all camera with more useable features and a so called improved sensor. It gets the paying jobs done which is the primary reason for it sticking around, but I ain't lovin' it … and after a couple of years now I probably never will. It's a work horse for work courses, nothing more.

    BTW, I ain't lovin' the A7R files either … yet. Other than the high ISO A7R stuff I shot while in Miami, I wish I had shot all the rest with the M9P I so foolishly (intellectually/rationally) sold.

    The A7R has a few redeeming aspects … it is small to promote take with but still FF; it makes a huge file which is easier to work on, correct, manipulate; it can do AF with a bunch of lenses I already have and manually focus a few loved M lenses; and (revealingly) I don't shoot all that much serious color work other than with the S2.

    It's a small investment comparatively speaking … yet, after a reasonable amount of time if it doesn't ring my bell with the files I'll come to shun it … the first step toward offing it despite all the intellectual/rational arguments in its' favor.

    Live is too short to make pictures that don't ring that internal bell of satisfaction, especially when you get older like I'm getting.

    My $2 worth.

    - Marc
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    Senior Member Braeside's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Jono, as others have said, go with your heart.

    I am sticking with my love, the Fujifilm system. I dabbled with the Olympus EM5, but I never clicked with it despite good results. I left Sony after the A900. So for me personally it is the Ricoh GXR Mount for my RF lenses, and the XP1 and XT1 for Fujifilm X lenses. I don't feel I need more than 16M pixels for my needs, in fact 12 is just fine from the GXR without the AA filter.

    Will be interested in your eventual decision.
    David Anderson

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Question, why do you need more than one system? I think the answer to that will answer your dilemma as well.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Lets say you prefer rangefinder focusing and therefore would use your m-lenses ond the M. I still dont see for which applications would you use the A7, except maybe for your R-lenses. But then you say you want something small and fast.
    I dont see how R lenses are that small or manual focusing with the A7 to be that fast.
    You could just use the M for that.

    If I would use the A7 I would at least use it mainly with the original Sony AF lenses to have the advantage of AF.

    By the way my alternative to the M is a Canon 5DIII. The 24-70/2.8II is an excellent midrange zoom, the 70-200/4.0IS is very good, the Sigma 35/1.4 ART is very very good and there are many many other great lenses.

    Yes, its bigger than the A7, XT1,EM1 but OVF just work much better for me, I get the fast AF for S-AF but also excellent C-AF, the balance between body and lenses is quite good (why smallish bodies if you put big lenses on the small body). Maybe A7 Sensor is better than that of the 5dIII and M, but in the end the sensor is seldom the bottle neck when I take photographs.

    By the way if I could not afford the M I would get either the X-Pro1/ XT-1 or A7 for sure. I just dont see the benefit of those if you allready have the M and if you like OVF/rangefinder.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi David
    Interesting, I think you already got where I'm going. I do like a mid range zoom as well.
    Where in Norfolk? ( we are in Diss )
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    By the way if I could not afford the M I would get either the X-Pro1/ XT-1 or A7 for sure. I just dont see the benefit of those if you allready have the M and if you like OVF/rangefinder.
    Color, great results with high ISO without the potential for banding, and IQ... Well as far as the A7 series is concerned. Say what you will but the A7 has the most CCD like color reproduction I've seen out of a CMOS sensor and it's why I'm selling my M9 towards a MM. To my eyes the color and rendering of the M240 (at least at launch before the last FW update) looked very close to images coming from a Canon 5D mk II. That't not to say they are bad - they aren't. Just lost something moving to a CMOS to me and many other M9 owners but I digress this is the Sony forum.

    It really depends on his uses. If he just wants a do it all travel camera I'd say stick with the OM-D. The IQ is going to be better than a RX10 more than likely and it's infinitely more flexible while remaining a similar size. If he's looking for max IQ and a great platform to adapt any/ all FF lenses then keep the A7. I really don't see where the XT-1 fits in. The sensor isn't as large as the A7 and the lens lineup isn't as complete as the OM-D.

    You're right though none of his other choices have OVF but I think they've matured enough for most people that the argument between OVF/EVF is not as big of an issue as it was say 5 years ago in most circumstances.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'll add one more, sure to be unpopular, opinion. It's always safer and easier offering opinions and making decisions for others than for yourself.

    I'd still keep the M240 (despite our disagreements on color rendering) and jettison all the rest.

    I have a nagging perception that all these other "modern" cameras have a digital look and feel to them. Not that digital is bad, but when it is too obvious it becomes unsettling for me. Hard to describe, but easy to spot when it is there.

    Many times it is the lack of realistic depth or initial impact even though the file is technically hard to fault. Oddly, this perception is what has kept me from loving the A99 over the A900 even though the A99 is the better over-all camera with more useable features and a so called improved sensor. It gets the paying jobs done which is the primary reason for it sticking around, but I ain't lovin' it … and after a couple of years now I probably never will. It's a work horse for work courses, nothing more.

    BTW, I ain't lovin' the A7R files either … yet. Other than the high ISO A7R stuff I shot while in Miami, I wish I had shot all the rest with the M9P I so foolishly (intellectually/rationally) sold.

    The A7R has a few redeeming aspects … it is small to promote take with but still FF; it makes a huge file which is easier to work on, correct, manipulate; it can do AF with a bunch of lenses I already have and manually focus a few loved M lenses; and (revealingly) I don't shoot all that much serious color work other than with the S2.

    It's a small investment comparatively speaking … yet, after a reasonable amount of time if it doesn't ring my bell with the files I'll come to shun it … the first step toward offing it despite all the intellectual/rational arguments in its' favor.

    Live is too short to make pictures that don't ring that internal bell of satisfaction, especially when you get older like I'm getting.

    My $2 worth.

    - Marc
    HI Marc
    Well, I agree with pretty much all of that - and although we disagree about the colour rendering in the M - we really do agree about the A900 (I still miss mine).

    In this instance it's just the desire for occasional AF and a mid range zoom (and also occasional telephoto).

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Question, why do you need more than one system? I think the answer to that will answer your dilemma as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Lets say you prefer rangefinder focusing and therefore would use your m-lenses ond the M. I still dont see for which applications would you use the A7, except maybe for your R-lenses. But then you say you want something small and fast.
    I dont see how R lenses are that small or manual focusing with the A7 to be that fast.
    You could just use the M for that.

    If I would use the A7 I would at least use it mainly with the original Sony AF lenses to have the advantage of AF.
    HI Ben, Tom
    Sometimes - usually if I'm out somewhere interesting with a group of people - I like to have a mid range zoom and AF - But I'd rather not make too many compromises beyond that, especially because my best photos are usually both opportunistic and 'instinctive'.

    I also like to do close up photography (not really macro) quite often, and the M isn't good at it without an EVF or live view . . . . . . and I find using that compromised as well.

    So - if I kept the A7 I'd use it most of the time with the 24-70 zoom - occasionally with the 60 macro elmarit R, and perhaps even the 80-200 f4 R which I like. But I've quite given up the idea of using anything except the M with M lenses (also compromised IMHO).

    The picture at the head of the thread shows all the cameras with a zoom attached - which is not a coincidence. Whichever camera I choose will mostly be used with a mid range zoom.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Jono, I still have and use the a900 if you are interested.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    While I am sure I contradict many in this thread (forum) I still come more and more to the conclusion that best is using a camera with native lenses - like M with M lenses, Fuji with Fuji glass etc. Fortunately I have not the issue of needing to intermix camera brands and lenses.

    For the rest:

    1) Leica - I still have many M lenses which I still cannot use, as the current incarnation of the M is not what I like an M to be. And the M9 is no option for me! So I need to wait here and see what Leica will bring up in the future.

    2) Fuji - while I love the Fuji colors and also the big EVF and lot of cool design of the XT1, I still am not convinced with the AF, especially with C-AF when used in low light. Nothing comparable to my D800E. Plus I am still missing super telephoto zooms, which may change soon and then the XT1 could really become my go to camera for wildlife although with not optimally fast AF

    3) Olympus - the EM1 currently seems to be the best all rounder for my casual photography, but it definitely is NOT there with super telephoto zooms - neither the Oly 73-300II nor the Pana 100-300, both just are not sharp and fast enough at the long end. If Oly would bring a Pro grade super telephoto zoom with say 4/100-300 which delivers the same IQ as the 12-40, this would become my future system for everything including wildlife.

    4) Sony A7 / A7R - I cannot and do not want to comment on IQ of these cameras, but from what I have seen during some tests of both I am not convinced with either of them. This system may become mature - hopefully soon - but currently it is not and so I will sit and watch. First row - leg free as we say

    Seems that currently I will continue with Nikon D800E for when I need high quality and fast operation and use either EM1 or XE2 when I am shooting more casual and for fun. Maybe I will still add the 80-400 VRII Nikkor for wildlife, as there seems to come no alternative from any mirror less system in near future - although I really would like to avoid that! And as Photokina 2014 is not far wait and see what will be introduced from Leica and the M system - maybe a new smaller M with just a faster processing and slightly improved sensor - hm I know I am dreaming

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Question, why do you need more than one system? I think the answer to that will answer your dilemma as well.
    For me the answer is simple:

    I want to use these lovely Leica R lenses. They work best on the format that they were designed for, that's why I bought the A7. If I didn't have them, the Olympus E-M1 does a better job for me than anything else I've used in the past decade, and that includes the M9.

    Because I had (and expanded) the collection of Leica R lenses, having two systems makes sense. And the two systems are different enough in format that they complement each other nicely. Small format for more automation, more DoF, more reach in a smaller package; larger format for more wide options, shallower DoF, the Leica Look™, etc.

    Examining the files out of the A7 and the E-M1, the file quality on noise/DR/acutance etc is quite comparable right up to ISO 6400, so the output of both processes very similarly and looks consistent when presented together.

    (This is why I have zero interest in the Fujis: their sensor technology produces a look and feel that is completely different, is far more niggly to process from raw. Aside from the fact that I have found several times that as nice as the Fujis seem when I pick them up in the store, I just don't like their haptics when I go out to shoot with them.)

    Yes, go with your gut. These are all nice cameras. Pick what makes you want to use it the most. :-)

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    While I am sure I contradict many in this thread (forum) I still come more and more to the conclusion that best is using a camera with native lenses...
    I tend to agree, and particularly with RF lenses in mind or with cameras for which I want to use the automation systems. All of my lenses for the E-M1 are FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Olympus - the EM1 currently seems to be the best all rounder for my casual photography, but it definitely is NOT there with super telephoto zooms ...
    I use the Olympus ZD 50-200/2.8-3.5 with and without the EC-14 teleconverter. This nets what is for me an excellent long range ... 100 to 560mm EFoV ... in a single lens with excellent quality. The AF is as responsive as I've needed, the image quality is excellent. The only downside is that it's a somewhat bulky/heavy lens.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Sony A7 / A7R ...
    I don't know what your issues are with the Sony A7 image quality, but that's neither here nor there. As I've said previously, my ONLY reason for buying the Sony A7 was to find a digital capture body for the Leica R lenses. Conversion for an SLR without auto-diaphragm*and auto-aperture operation makes for a crappy viewfinder and workflow IMO. The Sony's sensor and EVF net the original format they were designed for, an excellent viewing experience, and more functionality than the Leicaflex SL they were designed for on with respect to metering automation and focusing aids.

    To me, the A7 is simply the Leicaflex SL Digital that Leica will never produce. The fact that it's also a quarter the weight and more compact is a huge plus. These lenses focus so nicely and render so beautifully on the A7 (and I think on the A7r as well) that I'm just overjoyed about it. :-)

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    Re: Decisions Decisions


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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Ah - the elephant in the room - didn't we all know about that? (I certainly read the rumours).

    In that interview on leica rumours Mr Schopf said it would be APSc with a body made in Germany and lenses from Asia?

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    If it is as good a system as the A7+Leica R lenses, it's something I'll be interested in a few years down the pike.

    G

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Ben, Tom
    Sometimes - usually if I'm out somewhere interesting with a group of people - I like to have a mid range zoom and AF - But I'd rather not make too many compromises beyond that, especially because my best photos are usually both opportunistic and 'instinctive'.

    I also like to do close up photography (not really macro) quite often, and the M isn't good at it without an EVF or live view . . . . . . and I find using that compromised as well.

    So - if I kept the A7 I'd use it most of the time with the 24-70 zoom - occasionally with the 60 macro elmarit R, and perhaps even the 80-200 f4 R which I like. But I've quite given up the idea of using anything except the M with M lenses (also compromised IMHO).

    The picture at the head of the thread shows all the cameras with a zoom attached - which is not a coincidence. Whichever camera I choose will mostly be used with a mid range zoom.
    Not sure that the sony solution is that good though for zoom and auto focus. From what I read, outside of good light and how often are you out in good light with friends (the lords of the workplace demand the sacrifice of those hours! ), you would probably want a better AF solution?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Hi Jono.

    Sell them all. Buy the two you want the most again.
    After all you ain't getting any younger

    Best.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Jono has probably tested it already but can't say so.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...
    In that interview on leica rumours Mr Schopf said it would be APSc with a body made in Germany and lenses from Asia? ...
    If it's not FF, it doesn't replace the A7+Leica R lenses for me. Having both FT and FF format, and a full kit of lenses for both, I can see little point to putting money into another APS-C format system.

    Which is great—I'd much rather NOT go buying another camera at this point. :-)

    G

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Jono,

    This is easy: Sell everything except the A7 and your favorite M lenses, get a Metabones adapter for them. Buy an extra A7 and leave your Noct bolted to it. Then if you need something faster, get a D800e and a few of the better N glass to take care of the critical stuff.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Not sure that the sony solution is that good though for zoom and auto focus. From what I read, outside of good light and how often are you out in good light with friends (the lords of the workplace demand the sacrifice of those hours! ), you would probably want a better AF solution?
    HI There Ben
    The A7 does the sort of AF I need without much trouble - low light with friends I'd be using the rangefinder anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Jono,

    This is easy: Sell everything except the A7 and your favorite M lenses, get a Metabones adapter for them. Buy an extra A7 and leave your Noct bolted to it. Then if you need something faster, get a D800e and a few of the better N glass to take care of the critical stuff.
    Hi Jack
    that was why I bought an A7r in the first place, but I was dramatically underwhelmed by M lenses on the Sony - it finally made me realise that it's best to use native lenses on cameras.

    Anyway - I wouldn't dream of selling the M camera - because it's my favourite squeeze.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I would say...if absolute IQ is most important=> A7
    If you prefer a fast AF, a wide range of lenses (including a compact tele zoom), and to have a weatherproof camera => EM1

    Did you see the size of the Sony 70-200?

    I still think the A7 doesn't give you much additional benefits if you own and like a M240.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I would say...if absolute IQ is most important=> A7
    If you prefer a fast AF, a wide range of lenses (including a compact tele zoom), and to have a weatherproof camera => EM1

    Did you see the size of the Sony 70-200?

    I still think the A7 doesn't give you much additional benefits if you own and like a M240.
    Yes the 70-200 won't be pocketable but it won't be outright ungainly either. It's a f/4 lens so that saves on the amount of glass and the size of the lens.

    I think people blow the sizes of some of the FE lens out of proportion to be honest. no they aren't quite as wall as M lenses for the primes but they aren't much larger either. Case in point I remember have to put a size comparison between the FE 55, the 50 Lux ASPH, and the ZM50 Planar on here after some complained about "how large" the 55/1.8 was. Yes the zooms are about and inch or 2 longer than the 55 FE with a slightly larger diameter (2.5-5 cm for you metric types) but the system/ lenses are also lighter than even the M as a whole when comparing primes.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    Anyway - I wouldn't dream of selling the M camera - because it's my favourite squeeze.
    I could almost accuse you of sounding a little bit like a fanboy.

    Jack
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I could almost accuse you of sounding a little bit like-a fanboy.


    go for it Jack - - but in reality I just like shooting with a rangefinder - seeing around the subject and always having the same field of view is something which isn't available elsewhere in digital.

    As I said, I've given up trying to use M lenses successfully on other cameras - some work, some don't - stick to native seems best.

    As for the D800 - the number of times I've teetered on the brink of the D800 24-120 f4 . . . but it's just a bit big for lugging around the countryside (mind you, I used to lug around the D3 with the 24-70 f2.8 but we've been spoiled by little cameras). . . . . it is a thought though (i.e. keep the M and get a D800)

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I'm in the same boat.

    M240 with .95 Noct basically glued to the body. Complimented by an RX1r that I dearly love.

    A full Nikon system D4/Df for studio and sport work. Love it & hate it at the same time. Can't stand the size or weight anymore with newer options, but it's just hard to beat for the kite boarding or concert work.

    Sony A7/A7r with the three native FE lenses, & the A 70-200. Love the files. Hate the A7r shutter lag & vibration, which does affect my type of shooting. Hate the camera and menus. I'm still waiting for the Novoflex adapter to try out my Noct. on these bodies.

    Fuji X-T1 with 14, 23, 35, 56, 18-55, 55-200. I absolutely love the camera and glass. My idea is to see if it can replace my Nikon kit, plus I just connect with camera and glass. Just shot a Hawaiian music festival last night and it did great. It also seems as if it will keep up with kite boarding in the AF department. Still more trials to do, but I have some hope it will replace the Nikon gear. Both are 16MP which is fine for the end media use of these.

    If I were to take Marc's advice on keeping what is enjoyable, both the Nikon and Sony have to go. I'm pretty sure that the Nikon monster is on it's way out the door. I'm still holding out on the Sony, only because of the amazing files.

    Can't I just take the Sony sensor and put into the Fuji body????? Please.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    No real advantage between the D800 and A7r. Actually not popular opinion as we can see here. The Sony is better in my mind but I'm not a Nikon fanboy either.

    Never was even when I owned it. Its nice gets the job done but nothing special to me. I'm not a Sony fanboy either just like shooting it better. I also like its features better and that's why I switched.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I was going through the same decision (well, 2 out of the 4) this weekend. I took the Sony A7 and 35/2.8 and XT-1 and 23/1.4 out for an afternoon of country road driving and rural landscapes. I like the XT-1 a bit better for handling, shutter sound, and the 23/1.4 lens is beautiful (and little vignetting). After looking at the output on the screen (A7 down-sampled to ~16 mpx, X-trans files processed with Iridient) and a few 8x12 and 12x18 prints, though, decided that the A7 was better for me and the type of stuff I like to photograph (rural landscapes with lots of foliage, branches, grass).
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    What about the X-Vario as your walkabout zoom?

    Is the add-on EVF too awkward?

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    What about the X-Vario as your walkabout zoom?

    Is the add-on EVF too awkward?
    HI There
    I don't really mind the EVF - I had considered it, but it's Emma's . . . . Image quality is definitely right up there, but the AF isn't quite so good.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Jono knows I have some sympathy with his 'predicament'

    Personally, I use the Leica M240 (previously M9) and the EM5, and I'm in the market to replace the Olympus. I have been with four-thirds and m43 for several years, but the M files have spoiled me. Fully aware not everyone will agree, but from a handling and file processing perspective my own opinion is that the M240 is a step change up from the M9.

    And for me that means the gap between my Leica and my Oly has widened...

    Godfrey, I have every respect for your opinion, and bear in mind I have neither the latest incarnation of the Only, nor the Sony, but I find this amazing to be honest:

    ....Examining the files out of the A7 and the E-M1, the file quality on noise/DR/acutance etc is quite comparable right up to ISO 6400, so the output of both processes very similarly and looks consistent when presented together...

    My own experience, and the motivation to switch, is that Oly files quickly fall apart under processing. I enjoy gritty files sometimes, but don't expect to see noisy blue skies at base ISO.... which is indeed what I see with the EM5.

    Anyway, back on track.... seems to me everything is a compromise. Isn't that why we have all these brand and camera choices?!

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    What about the X-Vario as your walkabout zoom?

    Is the add-on EVF too awkward?
    I had the same thought but wasnt brave enough to mention it here

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Woods View Post
    ...Godfrey, I have every respect for your opinion, and bear in mind I have neither the latest incarnation of the Only, nor the Sony, but I find this amazing to be honest:

    ....Examining the files out of the A7 and the E-M1, the file quality on noise/DR/acutance etc is quite comparable right up to ISO 6400, so the output of both processes very similarly and looks consistent when presented together...
    My own experience, and the motivation to switch, is that Oly files quickly fall apart under processing. I enjoy gritty files sometimes, but don't expect to see noisy blue skies at base ISO.... which is indeed what I see with the EM5. ...
    I've never owned an E-M5 to compare to but I don't see any gritty skies with the E-M1 at base ISO. Unless I've underexposed them pretty badly... but there is a potential explanation.

    One thing that I did for the E-5 and do now for the E-M1 is back off the input sharpening in Lightroom to a value between 0 and 10, otherwise I get grittiness at low ISO settings where I shouldn't. The LR default value of Sharpening 25 is simply WAY too much for these sensors as a normal rule. Most of my photographs taken with the E-M1 have input sharpening set to between 5 and 11.

    I find overly aggressive input sharpening with LR and Camera Raw is the largest cause for noisy FourThirds/Micro-FourThirds results, aside from underexposure. The later generations of FourThirds format sensors have light to no AA filter, and need precious little input sharpening at all.

    One of these days in my copious free time I'll run up a couple of examples ... :-)

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