Site Sponsors
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 150 of 313

Thread: Decisions Decisions

  1. #101
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    For Jono the M is the bellwether camera system. If I could have afforded it at the time I also would have kept my Leicas and particularly the lenses too.

    I suspect, given the rate that the other systems blow through here such as the D800, D800e, Sony A7, A7r etc etc, that by next year there will be another 'must have' system out there and a corresponding move en-masse to adopt it.

    Perhaps the best plan is to take this into consideration and purchase with that in mind
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 11th March 2014 at 01:34.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  2. #102
    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tysons Corner, Virginia
    Posts
    490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    18

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Hey Jono,

    The more I stare at your picture (of the cameras) the more I think...get rid of all 'em except for the M. And start fresh by waiting juuuuuuusssssttt a little longer.

    My takes:

    The Olympus. Takes nice shots but I wish the LCD screen was FULLY articulated like Panasonic's G's. THAT is what an LCD should do. None of this simple flip up and down stuff. I can't tell you the number of situations I have just loved the sheer brilliance of the Panasonic LCD. The EVF is nice. But Fuji's is nicer. Finally, it certainly has nice lenses. As nice as your M's? Seriously? And again, if given the choice between taking a Digital EM-1 or M-240 out for the day I'd probably take the M. Also Olympus still has way too many buttons and dials for my liking. Why is it that an M with just on/off and shutter speed (and lens aperture) simply works? (Or works so simply?)

    Fuji:

    Definitely love the EVF. And they've finally had the brains to realize when you turn a camera 90 degrees you can make an EVF turn 90 degrees too!. Again nice optics. The 23mm and 56mm are hands down winners for sure. Pretty decent OOC jogs. Raw is probably a bit funky still (but if the jpgs are stellar who cares?). Like the Olympus the LCD is a no go. It's better than fixed I suppose but give me the Panasonic approach. It's got the traditional deck layout and buttons. Again, I think it could still be simpler. Different strokes though.

    Sony:

    Okay it's got resolution. Done. But I KNOW how you feel about the shutter. I'm in the same camp. So wait to see what the A8r will bring. Maybe the EVF will be bigger like the Fuji. And won't be as 'laggy' after each shot. Maybe the grip will be a few mm fatter to accommodate a bigger battery that won't poop out on you after two hours. Maybe the LCD will flip to the left 180 degrees BEFORE flipping up or down. Maybe there'll be more lenses that aren't all f2.8 or f4. Maybe I'll win the Powerball lottery...

    On the other hand...maybe Sony might release an RX with a snappier AF and a built-in EVF so you get that stellar Zeiss optic with a Sony sensor, verrrry quiet leaf shutter, and Leitz simplicity all in a compact digital camera that doesn't insult you by insisting you pony up another 400+ dollars/pounds/quid/drachmas because you want to have a VF.

    Okay, I'm done.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #103
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,871
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I don't know what your issues are with the Sony A7 image quality, but that's neither here nor there. As I've said previously, my ONLY reason for buying the Sony A7 was to find a digital capture body for the Leica R lenses. Conversion for an SLR without auto-diaphragm*and auto-aperture operation makes for a crappy viewfinder and workflow IMO. The Sony's sensor and EVF net the original format they were designed for, an excellent viewing experience, and more functionality than the Leicaflex SL they were designed for on with respect to metering automation and focusing aids.

    To me, the A7 is simply the Leicaflex SL Digital that Leica will never produce. The fact that it's also a quarter the weight and more compact is a huge plus. These lenses focus so nicely and render so beautifully on the A7 (and I think on the A7r as well) that I'm just overjoyed about it. :-)

    G
    Sorry I need to correct myself - I did not mean to say I have issues with the A7/A7R IQ, but I have issues with the feel and haptics of these cameras. Simply do not like to touch, hold and operate them. Not comfortable and for me Sony did too much overall size reduction and a certain "technical" look of the camera which does not resonate just with how I would like it to be. And I do not like the shutter!

  4. #104
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    ...The Olympus. Takes nice shots but I wish the LCD screen was FULLY articulated like Panasonic's G's. ...
    We will disagree on that one, Peter. I really dislike LCDs which flip out to the side, they make handling the camera very awkward IMO, particularly if I want to use it as a waist-level viewfinder because it puts the image off the centerline of the lens axis. There's no good way to use the E-M1 LCD as a waist level portrait orientation finder, but for use as a waist level finder or on a copy stand, it works great for me. I'm glad the A7 LCD does the same thing.

    No camera is perfect. Of course, this particular consideration become moot if you are framing for square format images, which I do a good bit of the time.

    Godfrey
    "Old Rolleiflex Users Never Stop Being Squares."
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #105
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Sorry I need to correct myself - I did not mean to say I have issues with the A7/A7R IQ, but I have issues with the feel and haptics of these cameras. Simply do not like to touch, hold and operate them. Not comfortable and for me Sony did too much overall size reduction and a certain "technical" look of the camera which does not resonate just with how I would like it to be. And I do not like the shutter!
    Ah, that's different.

    The haptics and ergonomics are ameliorated somewhat for me by the way I intend to use the A7. The buttons and menus are basically just kinda littered about the camera rather than being presented well, but it's got JUST enough function/button customizability that I have made it work for my "manual lenses only" intent, to the point where I find it comfortable and easy to use now. The A7 shutter clatter is no worse than my Nikon F or FM2n, I can live with it. This little video of the A7 running a continuous shutter sequence reminds me so much of the FM with MD-12 motor ...

    Sony A7-continuous_still frame.m4v

    Ergonomically, the E-M1 is superb and runs rings around the A7 in my hands. The only thing I notice is that after using the A7 for several weeks, the E-M1 body without the grip feels a little short again. LOL!

    Nuthin's perfect. ;-)

    G

  6. #106
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Sell them all, keep the GR

    :-)

    LouisB

    PS That thought keeps on crossing my mind...
    -----
    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #107
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    my fav walkaround at the moment is the S with 45mm.
    you should give it a try !>)
    and its probably lighter than the 3 camaeras you have now (together)

    seriously... if its just abot a midrange f4 zoom... get a mate for the M
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  8. #108
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Hurst, Texas (DFW area)
    Posts
    179
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    "I find overly aggressive input sharpening with LR and Camera Raw is the largest cause for noisy FourThirds/Micro-FourThirds results, aside from underexposure. The later generations of FourThirds format sensors have light to no AA filter, and need precious little input sharpening at all." Per Godfrey.

    Thanks Godfrey, this weighs a ton. I have two cameras, an old G1, (soon to be replaced) and a Ricoh GR (my pocket camera). The G1 replacement I am looking at closely is the Oly EM10. That would leave me with two cameras, neither having an AA filter. Your advise with respect to LR input sharpening was exceptionally timely and useful to me.

    Paul
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  9. #109
    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tysons Corner, Virginia
    Posts
    490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    18

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    No camera is perfect.

    Hi Godfrey,

    Definitely agree with you there. Different strokes...

    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

  10. #110
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Well, my new data point is I sold the RX1r. Loved the shots and camera, but couldn't convince myself to keep it. The A7 still is my fav for whatever reason (even over the A7r) so I might pick another one up to go along with the A7r. Since I have the 35/2.8 I'm not losing much. Or I'll just shoot the A7r and RX100ii for awhile and figure out what I'm "missing".

  11. #111
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Well, my new data point is I sold the RX1r. Loved the shots and camera, but couldn't convince myself to keep it. The A7 still is my fav for whatever reason (even over the A7r) so I might pick another one up to go along with the A7r. Since I have the 35/2.8 I'm not losing much. Or I'll just shoot the A7r and RX100ii for awhile and figure out what I'm "missing".
    Hi Todd
    Excellent thinking.
    FWIW what you're missing is an M and a bunch of Leica lenses

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #112
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    While I might be missing those, I'm not missing the $1X,000 still in my bank account ;-)

    With the $300 "trade in" deal I'm tempted to pick up an A7. While I love the files from the A7r, I still prefer the feel/sound of the A7 shutter.

  13. #113
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    For what it is worth, I am just finishing a 3 year photographic project during which I mainly used MF film but at times I used a GH-2 and 45/2.8, a M8 and 28ASPH and 90/2.8 Elmarits (which I no longer have) and more recently a DP2M, DP3M and Ricoh GR.

    Hand on heart the M8 despite its age is the best of all the cameras at a pixel peeping level in that although the DPxMs beat it hands down on detail in terms of micro-contrast and all round 'glow' the M8 frames have a certain 'je ne sais quoi'.

    But, before I go all gooey and fantasise all over again about Leica kit, the A7 beats all of them on handling and versatility and it also beats pretty much everything except the M8 on IQ and 'look'. There is something about the 24mpx sensor which is definitely very nice. I can live with the marginal difference in quality between the A7 and FE 35/2.8 and the M8 purely on convenience and versatility.

    And of course, I cannot justify the ridiculous price tag associated with the M. It just is not three time the value of the A7, imho.

    I was semi-serious, btw, about selling it all and just keeping the GR. That is one amazing sensor and super lens in a very well thought out body.

    LouisB
    -----
    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  14. #114
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I was semi-serious, btw, about selling it all and just keeping the GR. That is one amazing sensor and super lens in a very well thought out body.

    LouisB
    HI Louis
    not such a stupid idea - I love the GR - excellent little camera.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  15. #115
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Well Everyone - many thanks for your help, I'm going to ponder the decision over a long weekend skiing, as it's complicated taking all of these cameras I'm going to take
    2 M bodies
    WATE, 28, 50, 75 lenses

    . . . . . . and the GR

    So perhaps Marc is right after all

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #116
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Knorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,996
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well Everyone - many thanks for your help, I'm going to ponder the decision over a long weekend skiing, as it's complicated taking all of these cameras I'm going to take
    2 M bodies
    WATE, 28, 50, 75 lenses

    . . . . . . and the GR

    So perhaps Marc is right after all
    Pfff, escapist ...

    happy skiing and stay safe.
    Bart ...
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  17. #117
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Think outside the box ... keep 3 of them.

    You've already started your concern over the x-trans
    You know you'll never get rid of the Leica
    Keep the A7 for super quality and good coupling with some Leica lenses
    Keep the OMD EM1 but pair down to one good zoom (12-40?) for rain/fishy weather shooting
    Mike Broomfield
    www.pbase.com/mike_broomfield
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #118
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by mbroomfield View Post
    Think outside the box ... keep 3 of them.

    You've already started your concern over the x-trans
    You know you'll never get rid of the Leica
    Keep the A7 for super quality and good coupling with some Leica lenses
    Keep the OMD EM1 but pair down to one good zoom (12-40?) for rain/fishy weather shooting
    HI There Mike
    That's actually rather a good idea - Hmm not bad at all.

    Just this guy you know

  19. #119
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Only on this forum would someone suggest that idea of keeping the lot and the gear w***es all start nodding sagely and saying 'yeah, good idea'...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
    Likes 5 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #120
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Only on this forum would someone suggest that idea of keeping the lot and the gear w***es all start nodding sagely and saying 'yeah, good idea'...
    Hi Ben . . . I think he was suggesting selling the X-T1 and all the µ43 lenses . . so not quite keeping everything!
    Last edited by jonoslack; 11th March 2014 at 14:44.

    Just this guy you know

  21. #121
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Yep, Jon got it...
    and yet the a6000 is coming along soon and will also take Sony and Leica glass

  22. #122
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by mbroomfield View Post
    Yep, Jon got it...
    and yet the a6000 is coming along soon and will also take Sony and Leica glass
    indeed Mike. but I've learned the lesson with M glass: if you don't have an M there are lots of interesting options, but if you do have an M, then they're better on that M.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #123
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Only on this forum would someone suggest that idea of keeping the lot and the gear w***es all start nodding sagely and saying 'yeah, good idea'...
    Well, I couldn't pass up the $300 of an A7 body (plus $50 gift card, yada yada) so I guess I'm doubling up.

    I hate this place...
    new album | nostatic | music
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  24. #124
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Only on this forum would someone suggest that idea of keeping the lot and the gear w***es all start nodding sagely and saying 'yeah, good idea'...
    We have them well trained. Lol

    I'm glad we are not deciding on parts for rocket engines here or we may never get off the ground.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #125
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    indeed Mike. but I've learned the lesson with M glass: if you don't have an M there are lots of interesting options, but if you do have an M, then they're better on that M.
    For now ... technology marches on (although of course some (many?) will say that it's Leica themselves that bring the magic, and that is an impossible arguement)

  26. #126
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm glad we are not deciding on parts for rocket engines here or we may never get off the ground.
    Oh, it'll get off the ground. It'll just end up heading in 15 different directions at once.
    new album | nostatic | music
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #127
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Good point. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  28. #128
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    123
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Hey Jono,

    I'd sell all, including the M lenses that don't work, and buy an a7r. Cull the M lenses to what works with the a7r, and purchase substitutes to fill in the blanks. The Leica digital body has been supplanted by better, cheaper choices (the a7r). The only reason to own a Leica is to impress one's impressionable friends (said in all seriousness by one who's never used a Leica digital body).

    The OMD. I've never seen the attraction. A nice body with a small sensor. The only way to take advantage of the system, is to buy system lenses. 2x equivalency. Really? Why bother (unless one is interested in video, and there's better mft bodies for video)?

    Fuji XTi: Again, why invest in Fuji lenses. It's not a complete system, without a full frame body. I don't buy crop sensor lenses. Never used the camera, but there's many user comments that raw conversion isn't up to Bayer conversion RAW's. There's too many aps-c cameras more appealing. The new Sony a6000 comes to mind for an autofocus body to use with FE lenses.

    Of course, I wouldn't have asked. I know what works for me, as I'm sure you do for you. You've been around the block, why play these dramatic games? The day I start asking strangers what equipment I should use, is the day I sell it all and retire to the farm. ;-)

    Graham

  29. #129
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Of course, I wouldn't have asked. I know what works for me, as I'm sure you do for you. You've been around the block, why play these dramatic games? The day I start asking strangers what equipment I should use, is the day I sell it all and retire to the farm. ;-)

    Graham
    I don't think Jono considers us strangers. We're more of a dysfunctional family that comes home to roost every once in awhile.

    Can I borrow some money?
    new album | nostatic | music
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  30. #130
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,344
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Hey Jono,

    I'd sell all, including the M lenses that don't work, and buy an a7r. Cull the M lenses to what works with the a7r, and purchase substitutes to fill in the blanks. The Leica digital body has been supplanted by better, cheaper choices (the a7r). The only reason to own a Leica is to impress one's impressionable friends (said in all seriousness by one who's never used a Leica digital body).

    The OMD. I've never seen the attraction. A nice body with a small sensor. The only way to take advantage of the system, is to buy system lenses. 2x equivalency. Really? Why bother (unless one is interested in video, and there's better mft bodies for video)?

    Fuji XTi: Again, why invest in Fuji lenses. It's not a complete system, without a full frame body. I don't buy crop sensor lenses. Never used the camera, but there's many user comments that raw conversion isn't up to Bayer conversion RAW's. There's too many aps-c cameras more appealing. The new Sony a6000 comes to mind for an autofocus body to use with FE lenses.

    Of course, I wouldn't have asked. I know what works for me, as I'm sure you do for you. You've been around the block, why play these dramatic games? The day I start asking strangers what equipment I should use, is the day I sell it all and retire to the farm. ;-)

    Graham
    What is a crop sensor? Smaller than 8 x 10? Smaller than 4 x 5? Smaller than 6 x 7? 6 x 6? 645? 35mm? And what is a complete system? 3 lenses like the A7, or do they have 4 now? Or 14 that are available in X-mount for the Fuji?

    Oh, and those Fuji files... for many, those files is an important reason to buy a Fuji camera. It would have been for me
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  31. #131
    Senior Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Englewood, CO
    Posts
    2,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1248

    Re: Decisions Decisions


    The only reason to own a Leica is to impress one's impressionable friends (said in all seriousness by one who's never used a Leica digital body).

    The OMD. I've never seen the attraction. A nice body with a small sensor. (the sentence I've never owned one was just deleted)

    Fuji XTi: Again, why invest in Fuji lenses. It's not a complete system, without a full frame body. I don't buy crop sensor lenses. Never used the camera, but there's many user comments that raw conversion isn't up to Bayer conversion RAW's.
    There are people who like to get attention by giving strong comments on equipments they've never used. I've never bothered listening to them. Life is too short.
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 12th March 2014 at 01:29.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  32. #132
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Hey Jono,

    I'd sell all, including the M lenses that don't work, and buy an a7r. Cull the M lenses to what works with the a7r, and purchase substitutes to fill in the blanks. The Leica digital body has been supplanted by better, cheaper choices (the a7r). The only reason to own a Leica is to impress one's impressionable friends (said in all seriousness by one who's never used a Leica digital body).

    The OMD. I've never seen the attraction. A nice body with a small sensor. The only way to take advantage of the system, is to buy system lenses. 2x equivalency. Really? Why bother (unless one is interested in video, and there's better mft bodies for video)?

    Fuji XTi: Again, why invest in Fuji lenses. It's not a complete system, without a full frame body. I don't buy crop sensor lenses. Never used the camera, but there's many user comments that raw conversion isn't up to Bayer conversion RAW's. There's too many aps-c cameras more appealing. The new Sony a6000 comes to mind for an autofocus body to use with FE lenses.

    Of course, I wouldn't have asked. I know what works for me, as I'm sure you do for you. You've been around the block, why play these dramatic games? The day I start asking strangers what equipment I should use, is the day I sell it all and retire to the farm. ;-)

    Graham
    Don't get me wrong I've used my M9 a lot less since buying my A7 and A7r but MOST don't buy M's to impress their friends. In fact most people have no idea what a Leica is or think you're shooting film. That's a horrible argument that many people who don't even use/ own Leica's seem to love to repeat - much like the rumor that people who drive luxury cars only want to impress everyone else. Sometimes people just use and buy what they like. Simple as that.

    As for the A7 as a system - it's great provided you don't mind adapting lenses. There are 5 lenses announced so far plus the Rokinon/ Samyang lenses that are available now. Not a lot of depth but what is out for the FE system is really good.

    As for your other argument I agree that there is a large difference in IQ between FF and cropped sensors (APS-C, Micro 4/3, 4/3, compact cameras, etc.) with the caveat that it isn't always realized at web size resolution. If you're not printing 16" x 24" or larger then you may not realize it. That being said I've taken some of my better pictures (content wise) with Micro 4/3, cell phones, and compact digital cameras. All of the cameras he owns are great so there's really no wrong answer. The bigger issue is to stick with two FF systems or one FF plus one cropped. Again between the two cropped I'd go OM-D for the wider variety of optics personally.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  33. #133
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I reckon it'll be a cold day in hell before Jono sells his M-gear :-)

    But alongside that the A7 or A7r (probably the A7 in Jono's case) and then some native glass.. say 24-70, 55 and 70-200/4 + his collection of R-lenses with good adapater(s).

    That would still sound like a package to me because:

    1) for serious slow work either M or A7 + R-glass
    2) for pure enjoyment see above
    3) for need to AF, two great (assuming 70-200 works out) zooms and the 55, which is exceptional
    4) family walkabouts, 24-70
    5) I don't think Jono has need for seriously fast AF most of the time..
    6) great low light with A7

    So, with those I'm seeing a nice pattern of reasonably light weight, impressive quality and excellent availability for great lenses. Especially since both M and A7 can be adapted to pretty much anything.

    //Juha
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  34. #134
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    No use snarling at Graham, he's just stating what he believes same as the rest of us.

    I'm in the camp that says a rangefinder is not replaceable by anything other than another rangefinder, and in the case of Leica there is no other. File quality aside, the shooting experience with an optical rangefinder is, and always has been … unique.

    I'm also in the camp that has no interest in crop frame solutions … meaning a sensor smaller than 35mm, since that's the category we are discussing here. For one thing, I'm not interested in yet another set of lenses that won't work on a full frame (35mm) camera. Never saw the sense of it.

    IMO, the notion that a bigger sensor and more meg count is only necessary for making large prints is at best, overly simplistic. There are many other inherent qualities one discovers when working between smaller and lesser sensors … and if you just don't see it (or don't care), doesn't mean that others can't see the difference as meaningful to them.



    - Marc
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  35. #135
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Hey Jono,

    I'd sell all, including the M lenses that don't work, and buy an a7r. Cull the M lenses to what works with the a7r, and purchase substitutes to fill in the blanks. The Leica digital body has been supplanted by better, cheaper choices (the a7r). The only reason to own a Leica is to impress one's impressionable friends (said in all seriousness by one who's never used a Leica digital body).
    Oh no Graham - the principle reason to use a Leica is because of the rangefinder - it's a completely different way of shooting - identical field of view for all lenses, framelines - seeing around the subject. The other reason is to use those lovely wide angle lenses which don't work on the A7r.

    Take your point on the OMD and the Fuji -


    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Hey Jono,

    Of course, I wouldn't have asked. I know what works for me, as I'm sure you do for you. You've been around the block, why play these dramatic games? The day I start asking strangers what equipment I should use, is the day I sell it all and retire to the farm. ;-)

    Graham
    I don't think I asked either - just thought it was an interesting topic for conversation - and a perfect opportunity for Todd to crack jokes

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  36. #136
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    261
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Oh no Graham - the principle reason to use a Leica is because of the rangefinder - it's a completely different way of shooting - identical field of view for all lenses, framelines - seeing around the subject. The other reason is to use those lovely wide angle lenses which don't work on the A7r.
    Leica M wide angle lenses are truly lovely but the benefits of the rangefinder don't come into play when shooting with wides. Wider than 28mm, you need to choose between the lesser of 2 evils - a cludgy live-view/EVF or external finders.

    In my experience, the magic of the rangefinder really only comes into play for 35mm and 50mm lenses.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #137
    Senior Member JMaher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sarasota
    Posts
    942
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    16

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    WOW - what a fun discussion.

    I have borrowed an M but even though I see the appeal it wasn't for me.

    I have owned an X-100, and an X-E1. Both were excellent cameras but I didn't find the files any better than my EM-5 at the time and they had their own issues. Even today I have trouble at base ISO justifying any real advantage of those files (or even my Canon 5D3 files) for any reasonably sized print.

    E-M1 - I currently own this camera and love it for a variety of reasons. It has a certain undefinable appeal based simply on its feel in my hand along with a fantastic stabilization system. It's weather proofing seems to be among the best and it certainly has an electronic viewfinder that rivals many an optical system. In fact upon first picking up a A7 I was surprised at how small and dim that viewfinder seemed in comparison to the E-M1. Is it the perfect camera - well obviously not (file size, lack of native world class long lenses, etc). However, I believe that more of photos come out looking better on my E-M1 than they have any right to as the great viewfinder and 5 axis stabilization make some things easier to achieve.

    If I could have two it would be something that has superlative glass and a large sensor and an EM-1.

    Jim
    Last edited by JMaher; 12th March 2014 at 10:22.
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  38. #138
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    1,282
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by JMaher View Post
    WOW - what a fun discussion.

    E-M1...... Is it the perfect camera - well obviously not (file size, lack of native world class long lenses, etc). However, I believe that more of photos come out looking better on my EM-1 than they have any right to as the great viewfinder and 5 axis stabilization make some things easier to achieve.
    Didn't intend to troll over here in Sony country, as I don't have an A7, A7r or much interest in obtaining either... But I can't help but point out that the E-M1 offers access to 4/3 (not yet m43) telephotos from the old Olympus E1,3,5 series that are world class: the 50-200, the 150, the 300, etc. Their costs are in line with the now rare Leicaflex contenders, and they autofocus quite nicely on an E-M1.

    And I agree with you completely on the magic of the VF4 series of Oly viewfinders and the image stabilization. Handheld macro shots at 1/10 sec are just amazing.

    scott
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  39. #139
    Senior Member JMaher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sarasota
    Posts
    942
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    16

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Scott,

    I agree about the 50-200, etc. However since they require an adapter and are probably larger than a lens designed for m4/3 I ruled them out as a native lens. However I do occasionally think about buying a 50-200 or one of its more expensive brethren.

    I also occasionally think about buying an A7 or A7r but as a supplement to the EM-1.

    -Jim

  40. #140
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    My EM5 stays full time in a Boda Bag behind the seat in my truck with the 4/3 12-60 Oly welded to it. Great combo, weatherproof and the lens has a big rubber hood on it for lousy weather. The other camera in that bag is my IR converted GF-1 with the 12-50 Oly I got with the EM5. I never really think about them but they are always there if I'm on route and see a photo op. It was this that made me suggest Jon keep the EM1 with a single lens and concentrate on 2 other systems.
    Mike Broomfield
    www.pbase.com/mike_broomfield
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  41. #141
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I agree, this has been a fun discussion. I'm glad Jono started it.

    I'm homing in on what I want to keep and what I want to sell too. Now that I have the A7 and the kit of Leica R lenses, it's quite clear to me that given a competent sensor and a decent viewfinder, lenses trump bodies.

    While I like the rangefinder experience, the Leica R lenses*on the A7 body produce nicer performance to my eye than the Voigtländer lenses on the M9 body, and I prefer the TTL viewfinder experience for most purposes. Only a few of my M-mount lenses work particularly nicely on the A7, where all my R and Nikkor lenses work beautifully on it. So my plan is to sell the M9 and most of my M-mount lenses other than the ones that work well on the A7 (which seems to be the M-Rokkors and Hektor 135). And since the M-Rokkors are the natural fit to the Leica CL, I'll keep that body and one wider Voigtländer (28 or 21mm), sell off the M4-2 body.

    The lens kit i have is biased to the wide end for the A7 (18mm to 180mm EFoV), and the lens kit I have for the E-M1 is nicely biased to the tele end (21mm to 560mm EFoV). And I have just the right compatibility between E-M1 and E-1 to keep the (almost worthless to sell, but delightful to use) E-1 body. The E-M1 is a fantastic shooting kit, particularly when I want speed, responsiveness, auto-focus, etc. Terrific lenses, excellent sensor. If I post PDFs optimized to print to 13x19 inch from both A7 and E-M1, you will NOT be able to tell the difference.

    The GXR kit (that I bought the Voigtländers for in the first place) will get sold too. It's a great camera that I've gotten a lot of good photos out of, but in the end I'm happier with the A7 and E-M1.

    The Leica X2 is my biggest question mark. It's nice to have a small, fixed lens, auto-mostly camera which makes such nice photos. Question is will I use it enough to be worth keeping it.

    I can also likely sell one of the Leicaflex SL bodies and one of the Nikon F bodies. And a whole bunch of much less valuable film cameras. I'll keep the Polaroids and the Hasselblads for the moments when they motivate me (surprisingly often for the Polaroids), and maybe a Minox submini or two. One Robot and the Rollei 35S stay too, for sentimental reasons.

    There are inevitably a whole bunch of bags that I'll sell or give away. And a couple of new ones I want to buy.

    Decisions, decisions indeed...!

    G

    "Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

  42. #142
    Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,423
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Pah!

    You GAS(eous) guys, you're just a load of shilly-shallying prevaricators.

    I was at the paint counter at Homebase this afternoon, and overheard two people discussing whether to have their lounge painted in Magnolia, Natural Calico, Mellow Mocha or Barley White. They quickly made up their minds and went for the old favourite Magnolia.
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  43. #143
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by gandolfi View Post
    Pah!

    You GAS(eous) guys, you're just a load of shilly-shallying prevaricators.

    I was at the paint counter at Homebase this afternoon, and overheard two people discussing whether to have their lounge painted in Magnolia, Natural Calico, Mellow Mocha or Barley White. They quickly made up their minds and went for the old favourite Magnolia.
    There should be a REALLY LIKE button!

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  44. #144
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Leica M wide angle lenses are truly lovely but the benefits of the rangefinder don't come into play when shooting with wides. Wider than 28mm, you need to choose between the lesser of 2 evils - a cludgy live-view/EVF or external finders.

    In my experience, the magic of the rangefinder really only comes into play for 35mm and 50mm lenses.
    Hi there
    As you say, the real magic of the rangefinder comes into play ........ Actually I'd say at 28mm
    As you say, the M wides are truly lovely ....... On an M, but many of them aren't even usable on an A7. If I'm shooting wider than 28 on an M I use the rangefinder for focusing, and on the rare occasions I don't understand the field of view I'll use live view for framing. But I don't have a problem with externL finders either.

    ..... In a nutshell, for 28mm and longer there is the magic of the rangefinder, and for wider than that the M is really the only game in town anyway.

    Personally, if I didn't want to shoot with an M I'd sell the M lenses as well

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  45. #145
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    261
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there
    As you say, the real magic of the rangefinder comes into play ........ Actually I'd say at 28mm
    As you say, the M wides are truly lovely ....... On an M, but many of them aren't even usable on an A7. If I'm shooting wider than 28 on an M I use the rangefinder for focusing, and on the rare occasions I don't understand the field of view I'll use live view for framing. But I don't have a problem with externL finders either.

    ..... In a nutshell, for 28mm and longer there is the magic of the rangefinder, and for wider than that the M is really the only game in town anyway.

    Personally, if I didn't want to shoot with an M I'd sell the M lenses as well
    You must have a flatter eyeball than me

    With a 28mm, I don't see anything outside the frame-lines and find I need to scan around the frame in order to frame with any level of accuracy.

  46. #146
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    1,282
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    With a 28mm, I don't see anything outside the frame-lines and find I need to scan around the frame in order to frame with any level of accuracy.
    I keep the other eye open to see outside the frame lines at 28mm. I agree with Jono's point that external viewfinders are comfortable to use, even though the parallax corrections are hard to guess. I often forget to bring the viewfinder when I use a 21mm and it doesn't seem to matter that much.

    scott

  47. #147
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    The Leica X2 is my biggest question mark. It's nice to have a small, fixed lens, auto-mostly camera which makes such nice photos. Question is will I use it enough to be worth keeping it.
    This was where I ended up with the RX1r. Brilliant camera, but just big enough to not be pocketable (which the RX100ii is), and lacking the EVF and longer lenses available to the A7(r).

    Truth be told, I think I got some of my best shots with my D-Lux4, small sensor and all. But that also was 6 years ago and my eyes were better then - man, really started going downhill after hitting age 50. While I still am comfortable doing the "point and shoot" method, increasingly I'm finding that a good EVF is important. I used to be better able to judge things from the rear screen, now not so much.

    I'll have an A7 in my hands again tomorrow, then I'll likely spend the weekend agonizing over whether to keep the A7 or A7r. I know the resolution on the A7r makes me weak in the knees, but for whatever reason I remember enjoying using the A7 a bit more. Silly little things can tip the scales.

    If I were a more patient person I would have tried both the EM1 and XT1 a bit longer to see if I could make them work, but the Sony FF files kinda spoiled me. I am pretty happy with the files from the Sony 1" sensor though - but there probably is some automatic rationalization going on with me thinking, "well, it is a point-and-shoot..."
    new album | nostatic | music
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  48. #148
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    You must have a flatter eyeball than me

    With a 28mm, I don't see anything outside the frame-lines and find I need to scan around the frame in order to frame with any level of accuracy.
    I can't see the 28mm framelines at all with my glasses on, and I can't focus with them off. I usually just ignore the framelines entirely when using a 28mm lens and point the camera based on my understanding of the 28mm FoV.

    While wider lenses on the M might be delicious, I have no issues whatever with the imaging qualities of the Elmarit-R 24mm, Elmarit-R 19mm, and Nikkor 18mm on the A7. They all work better than a CV Heliar 16/4.5 did on the M, and as well as the older Elmarit-M 24mm f/2.8 did on the M6 and M4-P.

    An SLR or the A7 EVF gives me a much easier to work with view for use with a wide lens.

    G

  49. #149
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    You must have a flatter eyeball than me
    It's known generally to be one of my greatest assets

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  50. #150
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I can't see the 28mm framelines at all with my glasses on, and I can't focus with them off.
    G
    I'm much older than you Godfrey. Contact lenses is the answer
    Different dioptre in each eye. The 28 Framelines are as clear as anything

    Just this guy you know

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •