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Thread: Decisions Decisions

  1. #201
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Braeside View Post
    The X-Pro 1 I had must be faulty as it does not have a video button, thankfully. The X-T1 does however.
    The function and control wheel to be more specific...

    I'm guessing the internal battery is the issue with the A7, but perhaps I'll try it again in a few weeks. I really was impressed by the form factor though and the Zeiss glass was the clincher. I'm curious about upcoming native lenses for these models.

  2. #202
    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Charge the camera/battery before use = Standard Operating Procedure. Not reading the manual is such a "Guy Thing"

    Given the battery consumption, I would have preferred a standard 2 battery charger with the A7/A7R plus the USB cord … because I can charge the camera using my cars' USB port, or from my laptop when traveling light. So, I like the USB cord, and see its' value … but not at the expense of a regular overnight plug-in the wall charger. Makes you wonder what other corners they cut to bring "Mighty Mouse" to market at this price point?

    Luckily, after using it for some time now, I haven't found any other cut corners. I'm thinking of adding the A7 to the A7R so I have a quieter camera when desired, and a back-up using the same lenses when traveling. Prices and packages are falling already, so it's getting more attractive.


    - Marc
    VERY close to making this exact same decision & for the same reasons. Great minds think alike, or is it just misery loving company?

  3. #203
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    VERY close to making this exact same decision & for the same reasons. Great minds think alike, or is it just misery loving company?
    That's what I did... Except I didn't have the patience for price drops.
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  4. #204
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Charge the camera/battery before use = Standard Operating Procedure. Not reading the manual is such a "Guy Thing"

    Given the battery consumption, I would have preferred a standard 2 battery charger with the A7/A7R plus the USB cord … because I can charge the camera using my cars' USB port, or from my laptop when traveling light. So, I like the USB cord, and see its' value … but not at the expense of a regular overnight plug-in the wall charger. Makes you wonder what other corners they cut to bring "Mighty Mouse" to market at this price point?

    Luckily, after using it for some time now, I haven't found any other cut corners. I'm thinking of adding the A7 to the A7R so I have a quieter camera when desired, and a back-up using the same lenses when traveling. Prices and packages are falling already, so it's getting more attractive.


    - Marc

    Actually, reading the manual is the first thing I did. It's not rocket science, but at first I thought the adapter was a charger. I don't think it should be too hard to get a charger and a few spares and have them both be charging at the same time. The A7 is the one to get for Leica wides it renders better than the M...imo

  5. #205
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Actually there are some sweet trade in deal packages right now. Plus 300 dollars off plus points. But I have both already . Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  6. #206
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Check this out

    Sony_TUTI
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    That's what I did... Except I didn't have the patience for price drops.
    The price drops are even more incentive. The only thing holding me back is a wife with a nasty big rolling pin, a wicked bass guitar, and firm "guidance" to please sell off the older gear to pay for it first She never says no, but she is always more prudent with money than I am.

    I don't have an M any longer, so that old "rangefinder in my blood" thing has already wained for me. Good thing too, as that price tag would be sure to raise more than an eyebrow. The X-E1 & GH3 for me duplicate what the Sony also does, so no great hesitation letting go of them.

    The tough one for me is giving up the 5D III, as it is my security blanket, for lack of a better description. It is big and heavy, uses big and heavy lenses, and takes quite a lot of ancillary gear to fully rig out. Gives you a big and HEAVY rig in the end, but a rig I know I can get the shots with. It also has by far the best autofocus system and camera controls of all the cameras I own. Universally widely supported too, so everything comes out for it first.

    So far, so good with the Sony's but having had my first A7R die on me does give me pause. For my commercial work I have to have backup, and right in hand, not home in the closet. So it is a roller case for Canons, two cases for lights and grip, or a larger small sized ThinkTank to hold two Sony bodies instead of my smallest Domke, one case for lights, and leave the grip at home. Not a hard decision, really.

  8. #208
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Chuck I gave it all up with the big Nikons. Do I still worry about at times yes but the bottom line I have not hit the wall with the Sonys. The A7 is a good backup to the A7r as it has the higher sync speed too. But I'm also looking down the road they have a A77 replacement coming most likely with some advanced A6000 features so that maybe a even better backup. But for now I don't miss my Nikons not in the slightest. But you know me I have no attachment to this stuff, I'm a dead cold fish on gear if it works than its in the bag if not its on the block. But so far I have not hit the wall and as more FE glass comes out than AF stuff gets to be less of a concern. Now having the 24-70 gives me a decent range for AF work and my ZA 85 and 135 are pretty good with the Sony 4 adapter and I even bought the Sony 3 adapter the other day as backup to the A4 its manual but a better working adapter than some of these other bolt ons. So right now I have 2 FE lenses and 2 ZA lenses so I'm covered with AF pretty well and the good news the ZA lenses are great manual focus lenses. So feeling pretty secure right now. But I know your feelings about hitting the wall. I took the leap over and so I'm okay. Its a tough call for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  9. #209
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    The price drops are even more incentive. The only thing holding me back is a wife with a nasty big rolling pin, a wicked bass guitar, and firm "guidance" to please sell off the older gear to pay for it first ...
    No wife here, and a partner who couldn't care less as long as I pay my share of rent and other expenses, but a good friend once looked in my equipment closet and said, "I don't know whether you just have way too much discretionary income ... or way too little discretion." I'm pretty sure it's the latter. =8^0

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    The price drops are even more incentive. The only thing holding me back is a wife with a nasty big rolling pin, a wicked bass guitar, and firm "guidance" to please sell off the older gear to pay for it first She never says no, but she is always more prudent with money than I am.

    I don't have an M any longer, so that old "rangefinder in my blood" thing has already wained for me. Good thing too, as that price tag would be sure to raise more than an eyebrow. The X-E1 & GH3 for me duplicate what the Sony also does, so no great hesitation letting go of them.

    The tough one for me is giving up the 5D III, as it is my security blanket, for lack of a better description. It is big and heavy, uses big and heavy lenses, and takes quite a lot of ancillary gear to fully rig out. Gives you a big and HEAVY rig in the end, but a rig I know I can get the shots with. It also has by far the best autofocus system and camera controls of all the cameras I own. Universally widely supported too, so everything comes out for it first.

    So far, so good with the Sony's but having had my first A7R die on me does give me pause. For my commercial work I have to have backup, and right in hand, not home in the closet. So it is a roller case for Canons, two cases for lights and grip, or a larger small sized ThinkTank to hold two Sony bodies instead of my smallest Domke, one case for lights, and leave the grip at home. Not a hard decision, really.
    Agreed and there are some really good deals that made me wish I had the patience. I've debated about getting another A7 though and I do have this NEX-5 that really doesn't get used but there are more pressing purchases. Then there's the rumor of new FE bodies by the end of the year.
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  11. #211
    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Chuck I gave it all up with the big Nikons. Do I still worry about at times yes but the bottom line I have not hit the wall with the Sonys. The A7 is a good backup to the A7r as it has the higher sync speed too. But I'm also looking down the road they have a A77 replacement coming most likely with some advanced A6000 features so that maybe a even better backup. But for now I don't miss my Nikons not in the slightest. But you know me I have no attachment to this stuff, I'm a dead cold fish on gear if it works than its in the bag if not its on the block. But so far I have not hit the wall and as more FE glass comes out than AF stuff gets to be less of a concern. Now having the 24-70 gives me a decent range for AF work and my ZA 85 and 135 are pretty good with the Sony 4 adapter and I even bought the Sony 3 adapter the other day as backup to the A4 its manual but a better working adapter than some of these other bolt ons. So right now I have 2 FE lenses and 2 ZA lenses so I'm covered with AF pretty well and the good news the ZA lenses are great manual focus lenses. So feeling pretty secure right now. But I know your feelings about hitting the wall. I took the leap over and so I'm okay. Its a tough call for sure.
    Knowing you for as long as I have there is little doubt in my mind that you still have a secret P30+ mounted to an old Alpa hidden under the old folded shirts in the bottom of your closet. Just forgot you hid it there from YOUR wife!

    Seriously, I hear you, and thanks for sharing this. Means a lot knowing that you too count on the gear to pay the mortgage. I had that 135mm Zeiss f/1.8 myself and sold it with my A77. It is a tank, but a wonderful fine lens I may try to find again some day. I am heading back to "Old" Mexico for Easter Week, so want to get my gear stuff sorted before then. That is one magic week, one I plan this year to heavily cover with Sonys.

    We should plan something down there again together. Been too may years since our last Mexican adventure dude!

  12. #212
    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    No wife here, and a partner who couldn't care less as long as I pay my share of rent and other expenses, but a good friend once looked in my equipment closet and said, "I don't know whether you just have way too much discretionary income ... or way too little discretion." I'm pretty sure it's the latter. =8^0

    G
    "Every man has a certain sphere of discretion which he has a right to expect shall not be infringed by his neighbours. This right flows from the very nature of man."

    William Godwin


  13. #213
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    VERY close to making this exact same decision & for the same reasons. Great minds think alike, or is it just misery loving company?
    Well, I picked up an A7 with the $300 credit deal, and after a night of contemplation, I put the A7r up for sale. For what I do I can live without the 36mp, and just prefer the A7 handling.

    I'm a bit more knee-jerk than Jono. By the time he decides, I'll have gone through three other systems
    new album | nostatic | music
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  14. #214
    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Agreed and there are some really good deals that made me wish I had the patience. I've debated about getting another A7 though and I do have this NEX-5 that really doesn't get used but there are more pressing purchases. Then there's the rumor of new FE bodies by the end of the year.
    Like yourself, we too have an old NEX-5 Suzanne uses. I am thinking it is high time to upgrade her to an A7 as well. I have started playing with three camera view productions, and frankly am getting sick of trying to grade-match footage from different cameras.

    Nostatic brought up the video, so a few words on what I am seeing with it.
    Intercutting the stills for a client coming from different cameras isn't too much of a problem, but video is a whole different story. Even with the same codec. The Sony is the ONLY one I own that I can get Video that matches color with the stills. Even using RAW, difficult on most brands finding a pleasing match for tying in the video with the stills for hybrid productions. These are small budget video "training wheels" shoots I am doing now, so no room for retouching to begin with. I think there will eventually be a business model from this, but to be honest as of now I haven't made much money from it, mostly just testing. Best I have time for is one quick grade, and into the edit hopper....

    One very pleasant surprise with the Sony A7R was the excellent built-in audio pre-amps and decent microphones. With some post processing applied to the audio track, these can be surprisingly good. Sony knows how to build excellent microphones, and for a long time. Here is a video clip from my wife Suzanne's performance last month. Very minor post work on the video, more post work on the audio track :

    https://vimeo.com/86800138

    The first nine minutes are using just the internal Sony mic system, as my battery went dead on the RODE VideoMic Pro I use. I waited until the third song to change the battery, as I knew I would miss a minute or so of the action doing it. I re-started the camera in the middle of Barracuda so it is easy to hear the difference. Both of these tracks have been audio post processed to bring out as much as possible.

    Honestly, to my ears I am not sure that in these circumstances getting the extra "ambient" surround wasn't a better accidental choice. While the RODE does isolate the singer better, cutting so much of the crowd takes something away from the natural live performance feel for me. I would love to hear others observations and preferences about this. Which one sounds more natural to you?

    I see the combo of video, audio, and stills as my own way forward. So my camera choices will be heavily weighted towards the best overall balance of features and functions that meet my needs. Right now, that is the Sony A7R by a mile in the mirrorless category, with the GH3 a distant second. Overall, the Sony gets the edge over my 5DIII due to weight, size, and dynamic range, but still a great camera system built like a tank.

    I'm looking foreword to my first three camera Sony A7/A7R edit.
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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Well, I picked up an A7 with the $300 credit deal, and after a night of contemplation, I put the A7r up for sale. For what I do I can live without the 36mp, and just prefer the A7 handling.

    I'm a bit more knee-jerk than Jono. By the time he decides, I'll have gone through three other systems
    Looks like Samys got another shipment? Now I am in trouble!

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post

    One very pleasant surprise with the Sony A7R was the excellent built-in audio pre-amps and decent microphones. With some post processing applied to the audio track, these can be surprisingly good. Sony knows how to build excellent microphones, and for a long time. Here is a video clip from my wife Suzanne's performance last month. Very minor post work on the video, more post work on the audio track :

    https://vimeo.com/86800138

    The first nine minutes are using just the internal Sony mic system, as my battery went dead on the RODE VideoMic Pro I use. I waited until the third song to change the battery, as I knew I would miss a minute or so of the action doing it. I re-started the camera in the middle of Barracuda so it is easy to hear the difference. Both of these tracks have been audio post processed to bring out as much as possible.

    Honestly, to my ears I am not sure that in these circumstances getting the extra "ambient" surround wasn't a better accidental choice. While the RODE does isolate the singer better, cutting so much of the crowd takes something away from the natural live performance feel for me. I would love to hear others observations and preferences about this. Which one sounds more natural to you?
    Cool band! What I have done in the past is mix a bit of the camera sound with the recorded. If I'm trying to get a good live sound mix I use a Zoom H6 with a direct feed from the board (vocals and sax) and one from my bass, along with the xy mics (recorder up on stage). That will give me a pretty clean 4 channel mix to work from. The camera will be out in the crowd so it'll get some crowd noise. I end up using the audio on the camera video (built-in mics) as reference for post anyway. Sometimes adding a bit of that to the mix helps give a bit more live "edge", while still getting the cleaner mix from the recorder.

    The vid I posted was just A7, nothing else. I have a 2-track recording from the stage but vocals are low since I didn't take a board feed. I'll likely blend the two when I cut the video later today, and maybe lightly grade the footage. I'm not that knowledgeable in that area - just minor tweaks in FCP-X but frankly it looks fine to me out of the camera. The stills are all 12800, so we're talking low light.

    Here is a still - 12800, 1/20, 70mm @ f4. OSS doing it's job...


  17. #217
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    The A7 is going to be swapped for another - I just love the size! I really think for 35mm FF the sweet spot is 24MP. From my experience most lenses today and even earlier glass are much better resolved on 24MP, but newer designs are certainly looking good.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    @ Jono

    do you already have a decision for keeping which cameras?

    Just interested in where you are with your findings,

    best

    Peter
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Well, I picked up an A7 with the $300 credit deal, and after a night of contemplation, I put the A7r up for sale. For what I do I can live without the 36mp, and just prefer the A7 handling.

    I'm a bit more knee-jerk than Jono. By the time he decides, I'll have gone through three other systems
    HI Todd
    I'm amazed that anyone thinks they're more 'knee jerk' than me . . . but the truth is I haven't made a decision yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    @ Jono

    do you already have a decision for keeping which cameras?

    Just interested in where you are with your findings,

    best

    Peter
    HI Peter
    I've just been skiing in Italy for a week, and I left all three of them behind - so it was M (mostly with a 28). tomorrow it's back to work, and I'll start reconsidering the situation. . . . . . . I think I know where I'm going (well, let's face it, Todd is always right), but I'm not quite there yet!

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I'm curious to know what you decide Jono.

    I finally made my decision. Bye Bye Sony. Even though the files are great, I just could not get along with the ergonomics and menu. Sometimes you just enjoy using something and other times its just a tool.

    My Nikon system is a tool, but never fails me when needed.

    My M240 & RX1r are my favorites for personal stuff and believe it or not, I've been very successful using them for concert photography or backstage stuff. I'm at the stage or on it, so a 50/.95 is basically glued to the M240 and the RX1r works great with the 35/2.0.

    The Fuji has endeared itself to my heart. I love the glass, the ergonomics, menus, etc... It is something that makes me feel confident and I enjoy the time shooting. The Sony A7/A7r just never got there with me. Since the Sony could not replace the Nikon gear for what I shot, only one system that felt like a "tool" stayed.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I also would like to know...

    And make a case for the Fuji...I was unconvinced until this afternoon...finally unboxed the 56 1.2 and used EXIFTool to import a few RAW files into C1 as X-E2 files ... applied the ASTIA profile and voila'! Happy camper now.....

    So here are a few pics ... first JPG into PS CC the rest out of C1...these end up being labeled as X-E2 files but are in reality from the X-T1.



    Fuji X-T1 18-55 Zoom







    Fuji X-T1 56 F1.2














    Thanks,


    Bob
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    A few more...


    Fuji X-T1 56 F1.2














    Thanks,


    Bob
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    OK last one...lots of high frequency stuff in the lawn...not a bit of artifacting....



    Fuji X-T1





    I should mention that this lens is tiny for a F1.2.....


    Thanks,


    Bob
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Bob,

    I love them.

    As soon as Fuji can do focus tracking as well as Nikon, then another one bites the dust. LOL

    Ray
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Ray,

    It won't happen....I have a Nikon Df and a Leica S coming....

    As Marc W would say....horses for courses...

    The Fuji is great for those times when you want a small unobtrusive system for travel or in dodgy situations...and it is so well thought out.

    But the EVF still lags behind a decent OVF in bright contrasty light....

    JMHO,

    Bob

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Actually,

    I said the above comments as the AF with the 56 was fairly awful in moderate light....better with MF and focus assist....

    My other cams nail it ... this one struggles when one assumes it should not.


    Bob

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Ray,

    It won't happen....I have a Nikon Df and a Leica S coming....

    As Marc W would say....horses for courses...

    The Fuji is great for those times when you want a small unobtrusive system for travel or in dodgy situations...and it is so well thought out.

    But the EVF still lags behind a decent OVF in bright contrasty light....

    JMHO,

    Bob
    Unfortunately, I agree. However, I can keep dreaming for some day.

    Ray

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Actually,

    I said the above comments as the AF with the 56 was fairly awful in moderate light....better with MF and focus assist....

    My other cams nail it ... this one struggles when one assumes it should not.


    Bob
    Not sure if you turned on high performance under the power management options, but it really does help focus.

    Ray

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    HI Bob
    Lovely photos as usual - but it was not winter grass that caused the grief, but spring green (as it were). I would certainly have expected all those shots to have done really well with the X-T1 . . . but there were others, and the only solution was to use Iridient, and my primary rule with new cameras is . . . Does it work well in Aperture?
    shrug

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Bob
    Lovely photos as usual - but it was not winter grass that caused the grief, but spring green (as it were).

    shrug
    Jono,


    You know I hate Green....Eire excepted....


    Bob

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Jono,


    You know I hate Green....Eire excepted....


    Bob
    There isn't much else here Bob - so one has to make the best of it!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Understood!


    Would change places with you in a NY minute....


    Actually hoping to be hit by a truck and wake up in Upper Slaughter....


    Although West Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Wales or West Coast of Ireland would suffice....


    Its all about the day not the box....


    Bob
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Understood!


    Would change places with you in a NY minute....


    Actually hoping to be hit by a truck and wake up in Upper Slaughter....


    Although West Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Wales or West Coast of Ireland would suffice....


    Its all about the day not the box....


    Bob
    Cornwall for me, and you're right about the box, but having embarked down the road of really trying to figure out which suits best . . . one may as well get to the end of that road (even if it would have been better to nip off to the pub instead!)

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Looking forward to your decision...

    Prior to today I was ready to move back to the A7R...not so sure at the present time...and the Df is going nowhere....


    Bob

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Looking forward to your decision...

    Prior to today I was ready to move back to the A7R...not so sure at the present time...and the Df is going nowhere....


    Bob
    I'd have bought a Df if it wasn't for your lovely photos . . . which made me sure that it still suffered from my Nikon Yellow Neurosis - right or wrong.

    I'm certain I can't deal with an A7r either, a shutter that sounds like someone stamping on a tin can is one thing, but one that sounds like two people stamping on a tin can is a stamp too far!

    But I'm fairly happy with the A7 - happy enough to embark on the 24-70 and the 55, and superficially pleased with these too. We Shall See!

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Jono...I'm also sensitive to the yellow demon that plagues Nikon ' s DSLR ' S but I have to say that in both color fedelity as well as high ISO output, the Df is on top of the heap as fat as I'm concerned. I truly believe you would not only be surprised by the whole Df experience but it's output. The camera is far greater than the sum of its parts and when used as intended is a pure joy to use.

    Just something to thing about.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I'm really surprised at the comments of the sound of the A7r. It's not nearly as bad as mentioned constantly and anyone that shot MF film or digital it's not even close to the bombs that go off on those cams. Maybe I'm deaf, who knows. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    I do enjoy the meaty, masculine sound of the a7r - it feels solid and dependable, like it will last very well. Another benefit is for shooting people who anticipate hearing the shutter release so they can relax. No one jumps away so it can't be too bad, hah.

    With the RX1 they just look at you quizzically when you lower the camera after the shot. I had a Fuji 690 that sounded like a bomb going off - an awful 'clank'. The A900 was pretty loud too.

    Looking around, some users are more sensitive than others. Some audio files:

    A7r Shutter Sound Test - YouTube

    Sony A7r and Leica M 240 Shutter Sound Comparison - YouTube

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Dave: The problem with Df is that it's massive. It's just too big & bulky for it's own good now that the A7 twins are out. And also it doesn't really know whether it's modern or retro.. it's a mix of things, similar to it's internals.

    From the sound of your experience, the internals are a excellent mix but unfortunately, at least I can't say that for the externals. For the hell of it I checked the latest batch of Nikon dslr's at the airport 'cause I had couple of hours to spare andthere's no way I'm going to carry something like that anymore.

    Actually aince it was a business trip for a couple of days and I wanted to carry hand luggage only, even the A7r stayed home. Had just the X2 with me and it was brilliant :-)

    //Juha
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Hi Juha,

    Appreciate your comments but of course size of a camera is all very subjective. That's the first time I've ever heard the Df described as massive. For myself, I find it relatively compact for a full frame DSLR and although bigger than a Leica rangefinder still consider it in the relm of a travel camera. Of course it greatly depends on lens selection. I'm used to using the large pro sized Nikon DSLR's and also the Pentax 645D, so the Df is a welcome change in size from those two.

    Again it's all depends on where one is coming from and what their definition is of "a large camera".

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Jono…I'm also sensitive to the yellow demon that plagues Nikon ' s DSLR ' S but I have to say that in both color fedelity as well as high ISO output, the Df is on top of the heap as fat as I'm concerned. I truly believe you would not only be surprised by the whole Df experience but it's output. The camera is far greater than the sum of its parts and when used as intended is a pure joy to use.

    Just something to thing about.

    Dave (D&A)
    Dave, Best typo EVER … given the following opinion that the camera is to bloated.

    (God knows I make enough of them myself ).

    - Marc
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Looking forward to your decision...

    Prior to today I was ready to move back to the A7R...not so sure at the present time...and the Df is going nowhere....


    Bob
    Bob,
    I wonder what the xt1 would give you what you don't get from the M?
    When/for which occasions would you grab the xt1 instead of the M?
    I am also interested in one of those cams (xt1 , em1, a7, df) but need to find out how much is just lust for something new and how much I will really gain after the new toy factor is gone.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Hi Juha,

    Appreciate your comments but of course size of a camera is all very subjective. That's the first time I've ever heard the Df described as massive. For myself, I find it relatively compact for a full frame DSLR and although bigger than a Leica rangefinder still consider it in the relm of a travel camera. Of course it greatly depends on lens selection. I'm used to using the large pro sized Nikon DSLR's and also the Pentax 645D, so the Df is a welcome change in size from those two.

    Again it's all depends on where one is coming from and what their definition is of "a large camera".

    Dave (D&A)
    If I had not switched to Canon 2 years ago I think I would buy the DF immediately. I also remember sometimes problems with skin tones from my previous Nikons, but the overall package seems so tempting (nice optical viewfinder, fast AF, small body, classic user interface, high DR and total freedom in regards to higher ISO).
    Just own to many Canon lenses, to make another switch and like the 5dIII too much. I would really like a second smaller body ala DF though. Maybe Canon will have something like this in the future? Or maybe I should just add a 6d.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    If I had not switched to Canon 2 years ago I think I would buy the DF immediately. I also remember sometimes problems with skin tones from my previous Nikons, but the overall package seems so tempting (nice optical viewfinder, fast AF, small body, classic user interface, high DR and total freedom in regards to higher ISO).
    Just own to many Canon lenses, to make another switch and like the 5dIII too much. I would really like a second smaller body ala DF though. Maybe Canon will have something like this in the future? Or maybe I should just add a 6d.
    Tom

    please! Do not switch from Canon 5DII to Nikon Df - NEVER! I am really serious. Never have seen such a misconnected camera as the Df.

    If you say D4s then it is perfect, but this is in another league anyway. But not Df ...

    Just my 5c

    Peter

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Bob,
    I wonder what the xt1 would give you what you don't get from the M?
    When/for which occasions would you grab the xt1 instead of the M?
    I am also interested in one of those cams (xt1 , em1, a7, df) but need to find out how much is just lust for something new and how much I will really gain after the new toy factor is gone.
    If had to decide today and not owning any cams of the above list, I would simply choose XT1 and Fuji X system. Period. All other is good in different areas, but the best overall package you get from the XT1. Plus I think also the best IQ.

    EM1 is clearly inferior WRT IQ, although it is superior WRT AF and AF tracking (allows kind of Group AF) which you find also in the latest Nikon D4s, which does work quite good. But the whole user experience of configuring the camera and always finding out you still have forgotten something - man I do not want to train for such a camera as much before I can shoot my good results. I want the camera to be self explanatory!
    Last edited by ptomsu; 21st March 2014 at 03:40.
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Bob,
    I wonder what the xt1 would give you what you don't get from the M?
    When/for which occasions would you grab the xt1 instead of the M?
    I am also interested in one of those cams (xt1 , em1, a7, df) but need to find out how much is just lust for something new and how much I will really gain after the new toy factor is gone.
    HI Tom
    For me, As well as my M - I definitely need camera with AF and a decent mid range zoom, without making too much compromise in image quality..... What I don't need is a bunch of native prime lenses to go with it, so the lack of lenses in FE mount doesn't affect me much

    .....Fuji X-t1, for me, is compromised slightly with greens in landscape images, and the solution to this (Iridient) is breaking my Aperture Only rule - and introduces other colour artefacts.

    ....Olympus E-M1 is very slightly compromised with IQ at low ISO, but like the Fuji is perfect in terms of handling and lenses

    ....Nikon Df (since it's been brought up) - Bob's great evening pictures just after he got it (and they were great) proved that the Nikon colour in evening light still has the yellow 'cast' which I disliked so much in my D3 and D700. . . and coming from where I am, it's big

    ....Sony A7 has a noisy shutter and relatively big lenses (again, coming from where I do - I realise it's rather quiet if you come from MF or a big dSLR) - but the IQ is really pretty good.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Tom

    please! Do not switch from Canon 5DII to Nikon Df - NEVER! I am really serious. Never have seen such a misconnected camera as the Df.

    If you say D4s then it is perfect, but this is in another league anyway. But not Df ...

    Just my 5c

    Peter
    Peter,
    I wont. The Canon works too good for me and I have some wonderful lenses for it. I might add a 6d as a somewhat smaller body.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Peter,
    I wont. The Canon works too good for me and I have some wonderful lenses for it. I might add a 6d as a somewhat smaller body.
    6D looks really tempting! If I were invested in Canon the 6D would be a no-brainer for me.

    Peter

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Tom
    For me, As well as my M - I definitely need camera with AF and a decent mid range zoom, without making too much compromise in image quality..... What I don't need is a bunch of native prime lenses to go with it, so the lack of lenses in FE mount doesn't affect me much

    .....Fuji X-t1, for me, is compromised slightly with greens in landscape images, and the solution to this (Iridient) is breaking my Aperture Only rule - and introduces other colour artefacts.

    ....Olympus E-M1 is very slightly compromised with IQ at low ISO, but like the Fuji is perfect in terms of handling and lenses

    ....Nikon Df (since it's been brought up) - Bob's great evening pictures just after he got it (and they were great) proved that the Nikon colour in evening light still has the yellow 'cast' which I disliked so much in my D3 and D700. . . and coming from where I am, it's big

    ....Sony A7 has a noisy shutter and relatively big lenses (again, coming from where I do - I realise it's rather quiet if you come from MF or a big dSLR) - but the IQ is really pretty good.
    Thanks Jono. I thought only A7r shutter was that loud?
    I guess the smartest thing for me is to stay with Leica M and my Canon stuff. I also still have the OMD-E-M5 and some lenses but don't use it often. Eventually I could replace it with an E-M1 -maybe I just wait until I find a used one in good condition.

    If I didn't havethe M I would probably go for the Fuji and accept the problem with the greens or learning another software.

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    Re: Decisions Decisions

    Some comments:

    1. Marc, in everyone's lifetime, there's always an invention or two that we're ever so grateful that we were born in that particular era. For some it's Bell ' s invention of the telephone, for some the refrig., for others it might be the Internet or cell phone....but for me it's "spell check". Reveals a lot about myself....LOL!

    Peter, both on paper as well as handling the Df for a short period of time like in a camera store, the Df does seem like a mish mash of features and presents a confused identity just exactly what it is, who its for and whether it's a blessing or hindrance in everyday shooting. These polarizing thoughts are most individuals initial impression, mine included. Yet for some who made the leap and have used the camera with great frequency and play to its strengths, it's actually a breath of fresh air and it's output, not to mention the pleasure of shooting with it, is impressive.

    It's like a vegetable we all hated as a kid but when given the chance to eat it when prepared to our liking, actually becomes a favorite over time. As I said previously, the Df is greater than the sum of its parts but a quick taste doesnt reveal a lot about its personality. Maybe not to everyone's liking but given a chance, has surprised many doubters.

    Dave (D&A)
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