Decisions Decisions

[GrahamWelland]

For Jono the M is the bellwether camera system. If I could have afforded it at the time I also would have kept my Leicas and particularly the lenses too.

I suspect, given the rate that the other systems blow through here such as the D800, D800e, Sony A7, A7r etc etc, that by next year there will be another 'must have' system out there and a corresponding move en-masse to adopt it. :watch:

Perhaps the best plan is to take this into consideration and purchase with that in mind :chug:

 

[peterb]

Hey Jono,

The more I stare at your picture (of the cameras) the more I think...get rid of all 'em except for the M. And start fresh by waiting juuuuuuusssssttt a little longer.

My takes:

The Olympus. Takes nice shots but I wish the LCD screen was FULLY articulated like Panasonic's G's. THAT is what an LCD should do. None of this simple flip up and down stuff. I can't tell you the number of situations I have just loved the sheer brilliance of the Panasonic LCD. The EVF is nice. But Fuji's is nicer. Finally, it certainly has nice lenses. As nice as your M's? Seriously? And again, if given the choice between taking a Digital EM-1 or M-240 out for the day I'd probably take the M. Also Olympus still has way too many buttons and dials for my liking. Why is it that an M with just on/off and shutter speed (and lens aperture) simply works? (Or works so simply?)

Fuji:

Definitely love the EVF. And they've finally had the brains to realize when you turn a camera 90 degrees you can make an EVF turn 90 degrees too!. Again nice optics. The 23mm and 56mm are hands down winners for sure. Pretty decent OOC jogs. Raw is probably a bit funky still (but if the jpgs are stellar who cares?). Like the Olympus the LCD is a no go. It's better than fixed I suppose but give me the Panasonic approach. It's got the traditional deck layout and buttons. Again, I think it could still be simpler. Different strokes though.

Sony:

Okay it's got resolution. Done. But I KNOW how you feel about the shutter. I'm in the same camp. So wait to see what the A8r will bring. Maybe the EVF will be bigger like the Fuji. And won't be as 'laggy' after each shot. Maybe the grip will be a few mm fatter to accommodate a bigger battery that won't poop out on you after two hours. Maybe the LCD will flip to the left 180 degrees BEFORE flipping up or down. Maybe there'll be more lenses that aren't all f2.8 or f4. Maybe I'll win the Powerball lottery...

On the other hand...maybe Sony might release an RX with a snappier AF and a built-in EVF so you get that stellar Zeiss optic with a Sony sensor, verrrry quiet leaf shutter, and Leitz simplicity all in a compact digital camera that doesn't insult you by insisting you pony up another 400+ dollars/pounds/quid/drachmas because you want to have a VF.

Okay, I'm done. :grin:

 

[ptomsu]

I don't know what your issues are with the Sony A7 image quality, but that's neither here nor there. As I've said previously, my ONLY reason for buying the Sony A7 was to find a digital capture body for the Leica R lenses. Conversion for an SLR without auto-diaphragm*and auto-aperture operation makes for a crappy viewfinder and workflow IMO. The Sony's sensor and EVF net the original format they were designed for, an excellent viewing experience, and more functionality than the Leicaflex SL they were designed for on with respect to metering automation and focusing aids.

To me, the A7 is simply the Leicaflex SL Digital that Leica will never produce. The fact that it's also a quarter the weight and more compact is a huge plus. These lenses focus so nicely and render so beautifully on the A7 (and I think on the A7r as well) that I'm just overjoyed about it.

G

Sorry I need to correct myself - I did not mean to say I have issues with the A7/A7R IQ, but I have issues with the feel and haptics of these cameras. Simply do not like to touch, hold and operate them. Not comfortable and for me Sony did too much overall size reduction and a certain "technical" look of the camera which does not resonate just with how I would like it to be. And I do not like the shutter!

 

[Godfrey]

...The Olympus. Takes nice shots but I wish the LCD screen was FULLY articulated like Panasonic's G's. ...

We will disagree on that one, Peter. I really dislike LCDs which flip out to the side, they make handling the camera very awkward IMO, particularly if I want to use it as a waist-level viewfinder because it puts the image off the centerline of the lens axis. There's no good way to use the E-M1 LCD as a waist level portrait orientation finder, but for use as a waist level finder or on a copy stand, it works great for me. I'm glad the A7 LCD does the same thing.

No camera is perfect. Of course, this particular consideration become moot if you are framing for square format images, which I do a good bit of the time.

Godfrey
"Old Rolleiflex Users Never Stop Being Squares."

 

[Godfrey]

Sorry I need to correct myself - I did not mean to say I have issues with the A7/A7R IQ, but I have issues with the feel and haptics of these cameras. Simply do not like to touch, hold and operate them. Not comfortable and for me Sony did too much overall size reduction and a certain "technical" look of the camera which does not resonate just with how I would like it to be. And I do not like the shutter!

Ah, that's different.

The haptics and ergonomics are ameliorated somewhat for me by the way I intend to use the A7. The buttons and menus are basically just kinda littered about the camera rather than being presented well, but it's got JUST enough function/button customizability that I have made it work for my "manual lenses only" intent, to the point where I find it comfortable and easy to use now. The A7 shutter clatter is no worse than my Nikon F or FM2n, I can live with it. This little video of the A7 running a continuous shutter sequence reminds me so much of the FM with MD-12 motor ...

Sony A7-continuous_still frame.m4v

Ergonomically, the E-M1 is superb and runs rings around the A7 in my hands. The only thing I notice is that after using the A7 for several weeks, the E-M1 body without the grip feels a little short again. LOL!

Nuthin's perfect. ;-)

G

 

[biglouis]

Sell them all, keep the GR



LouisB

PS That thought keeps on crossing my mind...

 

[Paratom]

my fav walkaround at the moment is the S with 45mm.
you should give it a try !>)
and its probably lighter than the 3 camaeras you have now (together)

seriously... if its just abot a midrange f4 zoom... get a mate for the M

 

[Paul_Kerfoot]

"I find overly aggressive input sharpening with LR and Camera Raw is the largest cause for noisy FourThirds/Micro-FourThirds results, aside from underexposure. The later generations of FourThirds format sensors have light to no AA filter, and need precious little input sharpening at all." Per Godfrey.

Thanks Godfrey, this weighs a ton. I have two cameras, an old G1, (soon to be replaced) and a Ricoh GR (my pocket camera). The G1 replacement I am looking at closely is the Oly EM10. That would leave me with two cameras, neither having an AA filter. Your advise with respect to LR input sharpening was exceptionally timely and useful to me.

Paul

 

[peterb]

No camera is perfect.

Hi Godfrey,

Definitely agree with you there. Different strokes...

 

[nostatic]

Well, my new data point is I sold the RX1r. Loved the shots and camera, but couldn't convince myself to keep it. The A7 still is my fav for whatever reason (even over the A7r) so I might pick another one up to go along with the A7r. Since I have the 35/2.8 I'm not losing much. Or I'll just shoot the A7r and RX100ii for awhile and figure out what I'm "missing".

 

[jonoslack]

Well, my new data point is I sold the RX1r. Loved the shots and camera, but couldn't convince myself to keep it. The A7 still is my fav for whatever reason (even over the A7r) so I might pick another one up to go along with the A7r. Since I have the 35/2.8 I'm not losing much. Or I'll just shoot the A7r and RX100ii for awhile and figure out what I'm "missing".

Hi Todd
Excellent thinking.
FWIW what you're missing is an M and a bunch of Leica lenses

 

[nostatic]

While I might be missing those, I'm not missing the $1X,000 still in my bank account ;-)

With the $300 "trade in" deal I'm tempted to pick up an A7. While I love the files from the A7r, I still prefer the feel/sound of the A7 shutter.

 

[biglouis]

For what it is worth, I am just finishing a 3 year photographic project during which I mainly used MF film but at times I used a GH-2 and 45/2.8, a M8 and 28ASPH and 90/2.8 Elmarits (which I no longer have) and more recently a DP2M, DP3M and Ricoh GR.

Hand on heart the M8 despite its age is the best of all the cameras at a pixel peeping level in that although the DPxMs beat it hands down on detail in terms of micro-contrast and all round 'glow' the M8 frames have a certain 'je ne sais quoi'.

But, before I go all gooey and fantasise all over again about Leica kit, the A7 beats all of them on handling and versatility and it also beats pretty much everything except the M8 on IQ and 'look'. There is something about the 24mpx sensor which is definitely very nice. I can live with the marginal difference in quality between the A7 and FE 35/2.8 and the M8 purely on convenience and versatility.

And of course, I cannot justify the ridiculous price tag associated with the M. It just is not three time the value of the A7, imho.

I was semi-serious, btw, about selling it all and just keeping the GR. That is one amazing sensor and super lens in a very well thought out body.

LouisB

 

[jonoslack]

I was semi-serious, btw, about selling it all and just keeping the GR. That is one amazing sensor and super lens in a very well thought out body.

LouisB

HI Louis
not such a stupid idea - I love the GR - excellent little camera.

 

[jonoslack]

Well Everyone - many thanks for your help, I'm going to ponder the decision over a long weekend skiing, as it's complicated taking all of these cameras I'm going to take
2 M bodies
WATE, 28, 50, 75 lenses

. . . . . . and the GR

So perhaps Marc is right after all

 

[Knorp]

Well Everyone - many thanks for your help, I'm going to ponder the decision over a long weekend skiing, as it's complicated taking all of these cameras I'm going to take
2 M bodies
WATE, 28, 50, 75 lenses

. . . . . . and the GR

So perhaps Marc is right after all

Pfff, escapist ...

happy skiing and stay safe.

 

[mbroomfield]

Think outside the box ... keep 3 of them.

You've already started your concern over the x-trans
You know you'll never get rid of the Leica
Keep the A7 for super quality and good coupling with some Leica lenses
Keep the OMD EM1 but pair down to one good zoom (12-40?) for rain/fishy weather shooting

 

[jonoslack]

Think outside the box ... keep 3 of them.

You've already started your concern over the x-trans
You know you'll never get rid of the Leica
Keep the A7 for super quality and good coupling with some Leica lenses
Keep the OMD EM1 but pair down to one good zoom (12-40?) for rain/fishy weather shooting

HI There Mike
That's actually rather a good idea - Hmm not bad at all.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Only on this forum would someone suggest that idea of keeping the lot and the gear w***es all start nodding sagely and saying 'yeah, good idea'... :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[jonoslack]

Only on this forum would someone suggest that idea of keeping the lot and the gear w***es all start nodding sagely and saying 'yeah, good idea'... :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Hi Ben . . . I think he was suggesting selling the X-T1 and all the µ43 lenses . . so not quite keeping everything!