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Thread: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    I'll be primarily interested in its tracking performance. I'll give it a go with the 24-70 F and the 55 F1.8 though what I rally want to know is how it'll do with the 70-200F4.

    Whatever its merits, the only think I'm interested in is 'can it track' and if it can't do so to some reasonably useful level, it won't find any place in my bag.

    Watch this space!
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I'll be primarily interested in its tracking performance. I'll give it a go with the 24-70 F and the 55 F1.8 though what I rally want to know is how it'll do with the 70-200F4.

    Whatever its merits, the only think I'm interested in is 'can it track' and if it can't do so to some reasonably useful level, it won't find any place in my bag.

    Watch this space!


    - Marc
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I'll be primarily interested in its tracking performance. I'll give it a go with the 24-70 F and the 55 F1.8 though what I rally want to know is how it'll do with the 70-200F4.

    Whatever its merits, the only think I'm interested in is 'can it track' and if it can't do so to some reasonably useful level, it won't find any place in my bag.

    Watch this space!

    Well, can it track better than the E-M1?
    TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    I have one on order. Am curious about the 55/1.8 as more "portrait".

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Well, can it track better than the E-M1?
    TIA.
    I hope so. The E-M1's tracking was pretty hit and miss in my use, and not useful for my occasional needs...
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Please hurry up Mr Ashley.....

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I hope so. The E-M1's tracking was pretty hit and miss in my use, and not useful for my occasional needs...

    Thanks Tim. I hope so too. Looking forward to your experiences.

    The E-M1 tracks much better than the E-M5 though. My best tool for tracking hummingbirds in flight has been the D800E and the new AF-S 80-400 lens. My D800E suffered from the left autofocus problem but was successfully repaired by Nikon.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...


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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    So I'm just going to say it because it's not said enough. I don't care how fast the AF is... I care about how accurate it is. When companies start bragging about the accuracy of their autofocus (in the non-Pro bodies) I think I will pay more attention. Give me an accurate 3-5FPS that I can consistently count on and they can keep the 10+FPS where on 1 or 2 frames are actually in focus.
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Yea the speed factor going blazing fast is not my priority either. Just give me dead solid accuracy even in single shot mode with a decent buffer is all i care about. I do NOT lay on the Horn ever.
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yea the speed factor going blazing fast is not my priority either. Just give me dead solid accuracy even in single shot mode with a decent buffer is all i care about. I do NOT lay on the Horn ever.
    That is what lead to my A77 going to the chopping block and me pretty much only using the M9 for everything. Sure there were some shots that I missed with the M9 (anyone who tells you differently is most likely lying) but I could count on the vast majority of pictures (and I'd gather better than 90-95%) being in focus or close enough.
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    So I'm just going to say it because it's not said enough. I don't care how fast the AF is... I care about how accurate it is. When companies start bragging about the accuracy of their autofocus (in the non-Pro bodies) I think I will pay more attention. Give me an accurate 3-5FPS that I can consistently count on and they can keep the 10+FPS where on 1 or 2 frames are actually in focus.
    Well, there's not much doubt about the AF on the E-M1 - fast and accurate, it's the tracking that lets it down - to be honest, I think that all the mirror less cameras seem to have fast and accurate single shot focusing, it's continuous that isn't.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Bloody thing hasn't arrived yet - so I spent the time organising a wife swap with Jono. Don't ask.
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    On the bright side: no need changing the title ...

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, there's not much doubt about the AF on the E-M1 - fast and accurate, it's the tracking that lets it down - to be honest, I think that all the mirror less cameras seem to have fast and accurate single shot focusing, it's continuous that isn't.
    I must say that in my experience the AF tracking of the EM1 works pretty well if set to AF area of 9 AF points. It is not quite up to the Nikon D800E, but not too much different. And I tested with the 75-300 II and the 12-40. Especially at 300 I was surprised how good this works. Actually this is one of the main reasons why I am keeping the EM1, as it gives me kind of what I am looking for in AF tracking for wildlife. Only a faster super telephoto zoom would be really on my wish list!

    Having said that - if set to single AF point or even "small single AF" point it really sucks. But then also D800E gets worse if only using a single AF point.

    IMHO the EM1 is lightyears ahead of the Fuji's (name your favorite) and I cannot speak for the A7/A7r as I did not test AF tracking there.

    No doubt the next generation(s) of mirror less cameras will outperform classical DSLRs, I would bet even the D4s and D1X likes.
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I must say that in my experience the AF tracking of the EM1 works pretty well if set to AF area of 9 AF points.
    I've not tried this Peter. Perhaps those who moan about it haven't either. Certainly I've found the Olympus focus generally better than the Fuji X-T1

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Tim,

    By the time you get it we'll all have moved on to the ______________.

    Cheers, Matt
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    The courier company screwed up. I am promised today, on pain of things too nasty to repeat...

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I do NOT lay on the Horn ever.
    Perfectly put! Besides, who wants all that extra sifting on the computer after the show?

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Don't ask.
    Not asking.
    Wondering, but not asking ...
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Well, the A6000 is here but I'm afraid it's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard to me: the included manual is really just a Quick Start guide and it refers you to Sony support website, which gleefully informs me that support for the camera is coming soon.

    The crux of this is: which focus area modes does AF-C work in if you want tracking? I have read that it only works in wide area mode. There's nothing in the manual that I can see, but there does seem to be some form of continuous focus in Wide, Area, Centre and Single spot modes though I imagine that Wide is needed (as I have read) for tracking performance. Trouble is, you can't dictate what it thinks is the subject.

    I will explore in some proper depth but with no instructions it ain't easy. First test,the famous 'running dog' test with the 55 F1.8, failed to find any setting that could track to any useful degree at all.

    Otherwise everything seems OK, focus is very fast and accurate on static subjects, the JPEGS look horrible and LR doesn't read the RAW yet, whereas Sony's IDC does its usual weird stuff on them and is to be avoided.

    Mine arrived with a large and unshakeable blob of dust on the sensor (a first for me with Sony) and I have to say that unless you have fingers like chopsticks, getting the memory card out is going to really annoy you.

    More later.

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Try AF lock on and select a small AF point and see if it tracks like that. Have AF continuous on
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Lock on AF is assigned to the center dial switch. Nice place for it too
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Makes no difference as far as I can see, but still testing. If you use single point it can't track to outside that point and if you use one of the wider modes, you can't determine what it should be locking onto unless you're using face detect and there's a face. Sometimes it will track a subject which it initially finds, if it is contrasty or has a brighter colour than the rest of the frame, but often it will just fail. I reserve judgement until I have found some decent instructions but for now, it smells like some marketing puff and some carefully selected pre-testers who only used the sorts of subjects on which it works (bright doll on gray background background, for e.g.)

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Here's an example of what I am talking about. When framing the image below using WIDE area and AF-C, the system locks onto the balloons but if you sweep the camera gently from side to side it loses interest in them and starts looking at a patch of grass nearby.


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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    And just for sh*ts and giggles, as the vulgar expression goes, here are links to two RAW files saved into DNG with no sharpening. Take the one with the boat and give it appropriate sharpening. When I do that, I get a strange effect on the wall behind the subject, sort of like sand ripples on the beach, even though that wall is totes smooth.

    http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g64...JrUiytAZ0-hjU=

    And here's one that shows how effective AF-C is at tracking something when it stops moving. Pretty good.
    http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g55..._s7Z1lCdnbRXI=

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    With respect, those two links prove my point entirely: the first leads to the Chocolate Fireguard manual (looks useful from a distance, is not very useful close up) and the second link just goes to the Sony website with nothing about the 6000. I can't find anything anywhere more useful online, either...

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Here's an example of what I am talking about. When framing the image below using WIDE area and AF-C, the system locks onto the balloons but if you sweep the camera gently from side to side it loses interest in them and starts looking at a patch of grass nearby.


    Thanks Tim. That's exactly what the E-M1 would do with AF-C, namely continuous focusing on whatever you currently point the camera at, but no tracking. The E-M1 has another mode, namely AF-C Tr, that would keep the focus on your initial focus object, the balloons in this case and track them. I wonder what the corresponding setting is for the A6000?

    With the E-M1 I have tracked cars going up a road on a hill. The camera was on a tripod. The focus point set to the extreme left. When a car entered that area I half pressed the shutter until the camera achieved focus. Then I kept the shutter button pressed down and saw a yellow focus box around the car, travelling across the viewfinder and taking images. It also was important ahead of time to set how many images per second one would want to take as eventually the camera will run out of buffer for too high a frame count per second.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 29th March 2014 at 11:33.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    With respect, those two links prove my point entirely: the first leads to the Chocolate Fireguard manual (looks useful from a distance, is not very useful close up) and the second link just goes to the Sony website with nothing about the 6000. I can't find anything anywhere more useful online, either...
    Sorry.
    I thought the 48 page version would be the one you might be looking for as the 'Chocolate Fireguard' version I took to be the 'Help Guide' at only 1.27 Mb ...
    The second link, although copied and pasted correctly is typical of corporate sites then rerouting to what they consider important, not the customer's wishes; thus the "http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/ILCE-6000#Manuals" link leading to their main entry page and one having to go through all the clicks thereafter ...
    The larger centre link of 31.51 Mb is not worth the wait as it's the same manual in several different languages.

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    The 3rd one is the 200 page manual
    http://download.sony-europe.com/pub/...6000_HG_EN.pdf
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by mbroomfield View Post

    Many thanks. Pages 67, 68, and 74 seem to have useful tracking settings.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by mbroomfield View Post
    The 3rd one is the 200 page manual
    Well now, there ain't no trusting' dem dere meggybites ...

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Thanks, got that, will have a read later... I know Sony's website is famously bad (SAR have been doing a series of 'spot the mistake' articles) but making people treat the manual as the centrepiece of an Easter Egg Hunt seems egregiously daft...
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    One little learning: Guy's advice from yesterday is correct according to the manual but in real life it only works if you are NOT in flexible Spot setting for AF area: in that setting, pressing the control wheel centre button, which should make the tracking frame appear, instead makes the flexible spot yellow/moveable.

    In Wide, Zone and Centre it works as advertised but if you are a flexible spot shooter you'll need to use Lock on AF ON (start with shutter) or you won't be able to make the tracking frame appear. You might be able to alter this behaviour with custom control settings but as-shipped, it doesn't work in the way the manual states.

    Now to go and see if it works!

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Tim good input I did not realize the flexible spot did not work like that. I remember seeing a yellow box on my A7 and could never get it back when I first got it it. Now I know why. I have yet to read the bloody manuals.

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Hello, a forum newbie here I've had my A6000 for some days now and have tested the AF-C/tracking a bit. Bought the camera for AF-C/tracking/locking/burst in decent light, I have the A7R for pretty much everything else. The longest lens I have is the FE 55/1.8 though my FE 70-200/4 OSS should be here in about a week.

    Anyway, I agree on the analysis on lock on AF. If you focus on a static subject and move camera it has tendency to go looking for something else. On the moving subjects it seems to be a bit happier keeping the lock: I tested the FE 55 wide open with lock on shutter + flex spot large on the side of a road and when I locked the car in a distance it was followed quite nicely until it passed me within a few meter despite being a multilane road during rush hour so there was plenty of background "noise" to confuse the lock. Lock was maintained quite nicely from one corner of the frame to another. I tested the burst shooting both 6 and 11 fps and pretty much each and every frame was in focus, but with FE 55 even wide open that is not really a that huge an accomplement.

    One thing I was not super happy about lock on AF was its tendency to "go big". Even with flex-spot small it picked huge objects like a whole 18 wheeler. But I quess that is sort of nature of the best and for keeping the tracking on specific point lock-on AF needs to be disabled and smaller target tracked manually while the camera maintains focus. This was just a short test, I sneaked out of our office almost immediately when the courier brought me the camera only to be sent back by the nasty wind chill some 20 minutes later.
    I'll be banging my head on this further when the FE 70-200 arrives, the FE 55 is not really an action lens.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    Yea like to see what it really does with the long zoom. That's where I need the tracking is models walking down a runway which I shoot about 15k images in a couple days so focus tracking is real important for this gig. Or even my ZA 135 1.8 which becomes a 190 1.8 on this body. Yum
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    I should have the 70-200 f4 soon so I'll report back. Probably too slow for runway work though...

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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    It's not too fast anyway. Like 6 shots in 5 seconds worh of time. So not race car type work.
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    Re: A6000 arrives tomorrow...

    They more I hear about this body it sounds to me the biggest diffrence between it and the A7 is it will just use more focus points aka like 85 percent of the frame . Not sure if the real number but everything else sounds pretty much the same. I know I'm missing some parts of it but from a user seat that what it sounds like.

    We certainly need to hear more from the user base no question. Needs a dang vertical grip too but I sort of have my eye on the A77 replacement coming in May.

    Bottom line Sony is on the move and giving us users choices . You gotta love that or worse they are raping our bank accounts. LOL
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