Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

  1. #1
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Okay, I did a little experiment this morning. I carried both the M9 and the A7 along with just the M-Rokkor 40mm f/2 lens. To further constrain the results, I set the lens to about f/4.7 and the ISO on both cameras to 320.

    In use, there are some situations where the A7 is much easier to focus and other situations where the M9 is much easier to focus. But by and large most situations prove equally easy to focus with either, and there are workarounds in technique that you can use to get around when either are more difficult to focus. The end result is that you can focus either camera with acceptable accuracy with a little practice and understanding.

    In all cases, it's much easier to see the framing accurately with the Sony. You always see precisely what the lens sees. The Leica allows you to see a bit around the outside of the actual frame by varying amounts depending upon the particular focal length, the distance you're focusing at, and your eyesight (because of how you see through the viewfinder). As a consequence, with the Leica I normally want to shoot a little "loose" to be sure I've got everything I want in the photo. This is the same if I were comparing an SLR and a RF camera of any type.

    The Leica M9 is a bit bulkier, a bit heavier than the Sony. The differences are not enormous. Likewise, the ergonomics of the two cameras differ a lot, but which fits your hands and use better is a matter of personal opinion. As is the ability to make settings with the camera not to your eye ... they both do, but how you do it and how you see what you're doing is different, and which you like more will also differ.

    The Sony A7 (and particularly the A7r) gets a bad rap for shutter noise. Well, the sound of the shutters is quite different:

    M9:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side/M9.mp3

    A7 with EFCS enabled (the normal mode):
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...de/A7-ECFS.mp3

    A7 with only mechanical (same as A7r):
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...mechanical.mp3

    The recordings were made at about 7 inches from the cameras, above and to the right of them. The M9's softer sound is followed by the longer, slow shutter recock. The A7 EFCS mode is sharp but quick, the A7 mechanical mode is clattery. None of them is particularly quiet, really, and from 8 feet way in an open field you'd hardly notice any of them. For a quiet concert hall ... Give me a quiet leaf shutter camera, please. :-)

    In the end, the question becomes "Which camera makes a better photo?" I've seen that some people think the M9 creates a sharper photo ... which seems kind of odd since the A7 has more pixel resolution. If you're using the same lens on either, and the lens is a good match to either sensor, the 30% more pixel resolution should count for more than the difference that the A7's light AA filter can reduce resolution by (the A7r's lack of AA filter and double the M9 resolution should account for even more than that), and perceptual sharpness is after that more of an image processing/local contrast issue.

    So here's the challenge: Look at these ten photo pairs and tell me for each one of them which is the M9 and which is the A7 exposure.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-01.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-02.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-03.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-04.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-05.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-06.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-07.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-08.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-09.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...by_side-10.jpg

    (I've got the legend here, but I'll let you do guess first. :-)

    As to what I like using ... Well, I like using them both. But I think I like using the A7 more: I was always most comfortable using SLRs because I could see the framing more clearly and see with my eye what was or wasn't in focus by judging its sharpness.
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 5 Member(s) liked this post

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    The M9 has a more pleasing sound to me.
    As far as the photo test images go, if one has to look (strain) that hard to tell the difference then it probably doesn't matter. Either will make great images if the part behind the camera is seeing well.
    Then there is how one likes each camera and the way he/she likes the feel and the method of operation.
    Nice test and post.
    Thanks,
    Robert

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by OlderThenDirt View Post
    The M9 has a more pleasing sound to me.
    As far as the photo test images go, if one has to look (strain) that hard to tell the difference then it probably doesn't matter. Either will make great images if the part behind the camera is seeing well.
    Then there is how one likes each camera and the way he/she likes the feel and the method of operation.
    Nice test and post.
    Thanks! I agree with you, although I'm a bit more ambivalent on the sound issue. The M9 shutter cocking often sounds like it's straining to me, where the A7 doesn't.

    Fun stuff. I just decided that I needed to carry them both side by side before I make a decision about whether to keep or sell the M9. I know now that despite how much I like the M9, the A7 will get the majority of my use as I prefer its viewfinder.

    G

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    94
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    In most of the pairs, the top image seems superior to me. Image 8 is the best example of that. I hope you are going to tell me that the top images are the camera I own. Otherwise, I will be saying the two famous words: "Oh, ****."

  5. #5
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,579
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    i prefer the Sony A7, but the CCD vs CMOS rendition are probably very personal and subjective. I have owned both and love the A7 shutter sound. It's very solid and satisfying compared to the M9.

  6. #6
    Senior Member JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    640
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    I'll guess that the top image in all samples is from the M9.

    I shoot BW almost exclusively, so I'm not good at judging from color examples. But the M9's CCD and lack of AA give the best BW output of any digital camera I've owned. The GR shares those two features and is in the same class. Particularly telling is their handling of upper gray zones. I just got an A7 and am hoping it will get close to the standard set by those two cameras.

    I also like the A7 shutter very much: not particularly quiet, but smooth and certain.

    John

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Anyone else care to offer an opinion on the photos? I'll post a key later today.

    Thanks!

    Godfrey

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Anyone else care to offer an opinion on the photos? I'll post a key later today.

    Thanks!

    Godfrey
    I would take a stab except I tested how both the A7 and A7r did with my M mount collection. All of the lenses I own work decent enough with the A7 except the 35 Cron ASPH (sadly) and most work well enough with the A7r (except the aforementioned and the 24 Elmar very sadly.) Some I prefer on the A7 and A7r to the M9/M9P (ZM50/2, 35/1.2 Nokton II, and 90 Summicron Pre-AA.)

    That's a 100% subjective decision as to whether SOME M mount lenses work better on the Sony camera but in any case I bought a set of Contax Zeiss Primes for consistent look with the other Zeiss lenses. All of the purchases were on the longer end though (85, 100, 135, 180.) Oh and as for which is better... I love both but it's hard for me to justify keeping the M9 outside the fact I love rangefinders too. That being said if in fact Sony does announce the rumored MF EVIL camera well the M9 and most of the M lenses are gone.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  9. #9
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Still a rumor but looks like a big boy RX coming to town

    Sony Compact Medium Format Camera Coming « NEW CAMERA
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Still a rumor but looks like a big boy RX coming to town

    Sony Compact Medium Format Camera Coming « NEW CAMERA
    God I hope that's not true or that they will at least release and interchangeable lens version later.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    A bit of topic drift I see ...

    If Sony comes out with something like the Hasselblad SWC, that is, a fixed-lens, niche camera that is extraordinary and compelling on some front that I find motivating, I'll be interested. If they just come out with another "Texas Leica" analogue (that is, like a big version of an RX1 with a relatively normal lens), well, there are limits to how much better than what I have already I need/want, and at what price.

    In 2002, I traded off my entire Leica M kit to buy a Hasselblad 903SWC. For several months, I used it as my only camera. It was such a memorable experience that even after I sold it to expand my kit in other directions, I missed it a lot, to the point of buying another one last year. Like the Leica M Monochrom, it's the singular, specialist nature of such a camera that attracts me. The constraints of using it provoke me to explore seeing in different ways.

    At the moment, I live in a surfeit of equipment choices. There are times when I find that expansion of choice a significant burden and wish for a simpler kit again. There are other times I celebrate it, find it compelling. Right now it's compelling, which is why the SWC has been sitting idle for a while and there are three lenses and the A7 on my desk all the time.

    I'll keep watching from the sidelines as this latest Sony creation comes to be. There's a nice thread about it chugging along already.

    Now, back to the A7 vs M9 comparison, please?

    thx
    G

  12. #12
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    The top pictures have to be from the Sony as the higher resolving power of the 24MP sensor shows in comparison 9 with the airplane, which can`t be seen in the shot taken with the Leica.

    More seriously:
    Very very difficult but I believe the top shots are from the Leica because of the way the greens are rendered and because they seem to show slightly less DR.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    31

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    I'll play.
    Images 1-3, Leica A, Sony B.
    Image 4, Sony A, Leica B.
    Images 5-7, Leica A, Sony B.
    Image 8, Sony A, Leica B.
    Images 9&10, Leica A, Sony B.
    Please bear in mind I've never shot with either camera and that my opinion, therefore, may very well be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
    Fun though.

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    I love your discriminator, retow. ;-)

    I've got the Elmarit-R 135mm on the A7 at present. I think I'll go for a walk now ...

    G

  16. #16
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Have not looked yet but the clue would be the DR is less on the M9, no question about it and with that colors would be more saturated. That's the nature of a CCD. Don't let that sway a decision though as the saturation on a CMOS in post can be easily had.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  17. #17
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    after using the Sony focus mag and full frame field of view, my favorite features, (and what functionality that brings...24mm TS, for example) , the M pales in comparison from that point of view.

  18. #18
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    I didn't try to second guess which brand was used … just picked the image I preferred over the other …

    1a, 2a&b-equally disliked, 3b, 4a, 5b, 6a, 7a, 8a, 9b, 10b

    No shots of humans makes it harder to evaluate for a big percentage of what I shoot.

    I sold my M9 in anticipation of the M240 … which I then rejected (so far) because I do not like the image characteristic from the CMOS sensor. Working with a A7R now, but still can't reproduce the look and feel of the M9s I used for years … even using M lenses. I'm working on it.

    - Marc

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Ok, I guess that's enough fun .. :-)

    The comparison photos line up like this:


    The raw files coming out of the two cameras are very different processed to Lightroom's defaults, both in white balance (AWB) and overall contrast, as you can (hopefully) see from the unprocessed raw files in these pair strips:





    Top row is Leica M9, bottom is Sony A7, in both sets of five frames.

    That would have made it too easy to guess which camera made which image for anyone who was familiar with processing raw files from either. So I took a few minutes time to adjust the white balance, contrast, and exposure so that they had a similar feel.

    What I didn't do was any changes to lens characteristics, other than turning on LaCA removal for all exposures from both cameras. The thing to look for (as one person commented) was that the M-Rokkor 40 at f/4.7 on the A7 would produce slightly darkened corners compared to the M9 at the same lens opening. The other indicator (which several people commented on) was that the M9 produces very vivid greens which are difficult to match with the standard camera calibration profiles provided by Lightroom for the two cameras.


    Note:
    If I create a custom camera profile for both with Xrite Passport software and a color checker, the resulting colors are virtually indistinguishable.. This is why I've always maintained that using the colors produced by the CCD sensor in the Leica as a proof of its so-called superiority is hogwash. The color spec is far more influenced by calibration and image processing than by the technology of the sensor.


    Sharpness was not a good discriminator. Even if you had the full resolution images to work with, all of these photos were made hand-held. It would be impossible to say with any credibility that one camera out-performed the other based upon resolution potential given the same lens and this test.

    So which camera wins for me?

    Well, it's a mixed bag. Neither camera is perfect, each has advantages and disadvantages. And I like shooting with both of them. I can afford to keep both if I want to. But I know that I'll get more use out of the Sony due to its viewfinder, greater sensitivity, and lens versatility. And I know that I will likely not be able to afford buying comparable quality lenses for the M9 across the board like I have for the A7. I feel the overall imaging performance is close enough to a wash that that's not a consideration.

    A fun comparison. :-)

    Godfrey
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #20
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Well, at least I am consistent with my opinion since I selected the M9 eight out of ten times … and changed #1 at the last minute by second guessing myself and the IQ … (I marked #2 a draw because it had little content to evaluate) … so I really got eight out of nine in favor of the M9.

    While I like the A7R and the versatility it provides, I prefer shooting with a rangefinder over most anything else because of the elimination of distractions in favor of content. What makes the Sony fun, is the opposite of that … it's all about the camera and all that it can do.

    They both have their place.

    - Marc

  21. #21
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, at least I am consistent with my opinion since I selected the M9 eight out of ten times … and changed #1 at the last minute by second guessing myself and the IQ … (I marked #2 a draw because it had little content to evaluate) … so I really got eight out of nine in favor of the M9.

    While I like the A7R and the versatility it provides, I prefer shooting with a rangefinder over most anything else because of the elimination of distractions in favor of content. What makes the Sony fun, is the opposite of that … it's all about the camera and all that it can do.

    They both have their place.

    - Marc
    Well said Mark. This is often the case with two very versatile and very capable but quite different systems.

    I too did well with blind guesses and it might confirm my biases towards a certain "look". With that said though, I'm sure if a head to head comparison wasn't available, I'd find images from both cameras quite pleasing and acceptable. As for which system I enjoy shooting with on a personal level, that's where the Sony and Leica diverge for me personally.

    Thanks ever so much for taking the time to do this Godfrey. A lot of fun and at least when examining at web sized viewing, quite informative.

    Dave (D&A)

  22. #22
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,579
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    The A7 has a better look IMO. It's AF and size make the M9 seem rather obsolete. Using any M lens on the A7 solidifies it's place in the mirror less camera market. CCD does have a unique, edgy look that I can't discern from these photos. Perhaps portraits or more contrasty pics, with backlighting would demonstrate the sensors character and dynamic range, which I think is more useful. While comparing these two cameras might seem obvious because of size and they're both mirror less, the sensors are quite different, so other than portability and ergonomics, there's really no comparison.

  23. #23
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    I guess the point is you can't go wrong with either and theA7 and A7r is the closest output to the M9 that I've seen from a CMOS sensor... especially with the extra saturated colors that seem to come from Zeiss lenses.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  24. #24
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    I preferred the warmer color/WB of some of the A7 images in those comparisons.
    I guess choosing one of the cams depends if someone prefers optical viewfinder/rangefinder or EVF. (I still prefer optical viewfinders; I am very irritated by the muted colors I see in EVF, and I can't judge the real light if I look through an EVF)
    I must say I wish there were more native lenses for the Sony to benefit from AF and the sensor. Being able to use a good AF would make it much easier for me to accept the EVF.
    My feeling is Sony is making optical compromises to allow lenses which are not too big. For example distortion in the 24-70, or speed in case of the 35mm.

  25. #25
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I preferred the warmer color/WB of some of the A7 images in those comparisons.
    I guess choosing one of the cams depends if someone prefers optical viewfinder/rangefinder or EVF. (I still prefer optical viewfinders; I am very irritated by the muted colors I see in EVF, and I can't judge the real light if I look through an EVF)
    I must say I wish there were more native lenses for the Sony to benefit from AF and the sensor. Being able to use a good AF would make it much easier for me to accept the EVF.
    My feeling is Sony is making optical compromises to allow lenses which are not too big. For example distortion in the 24-70, or speed in case of the 35mm.
    IMO, this is a good overview of the differences, along with some subjective preferences thrown in.

    As a long time Rangefinder user, I tend to NOT compare any non-rangefinder to my Ms. It isn't just optical verses EVF, it is RF verses other OVF or EVF cameras. The whole gestalt of shooting is different with each viewing system and type of camera.

    Personally, my main comparison to the A7/A7R are other 35mm DSLRs, SLTs, and EVF cameras. In this comparison area, the size/FF resolution/AF weighs heavy in the mix.

    I'm not a one-size fits all shooter, and tend to adhere to the maxim "horses for courses." This Sony A7/A7R kit is just another "Horse".

    At one point I'll need to trim the stable as I phase out paying work, with the most likely candidate for pasture being all the 35mm DSLR/SLT stuff. I just sold my A900 and replaced it with the A7R … and the A99 and A mount lenses are next … depending on what FE lenses come out and what FE camera is next … by the end of this year, after shooting my last wedding, I'll be out of the 35mm DSLR/SLT system.

    - Marc

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    IMO, this is a good overview of the differences, along with some subjective preferences thrown in.

    As a long time Rangefinder user, I tend to NOT compare any non-rangefinder to my Ms. It isn't just optical verses EVF, it is RF verses other OVF or EVF cameras. The whole gestalt of shooting is different with each viewing system and type of camera.

    Personally, my main comparison to the A7/A7R are other 35mm DSLRs, SLTs, and EVF cameras. In this comparison area, the size/FF resolution/AF weighs heavy in the mix.

    I'm not a one-size fits all shooter, and tend to adhere to the maxim "horses for courses." This Sony A7/A7R kit is just another "Horse".

    At one point I'll need to trim the stable as I phase out paying work, with the most likely candidate for pasture being all the 35mm DSLR/SLT stuff. I just sold my A900 and replaced it with the A7R … and the A99 and A mount lenses are next … depending on what FE lenses come out and what FE camera is next … by the end of this year, after shooting my last wedding, I'll be out of the 35mm DSLR/SLT system.

    - Marc
    Hi Marc,
    personally I am debating myself to either add a 6d and a 24-70/4-0IS to my Canon kit or to get an A7 with Zeiss Zoom.
    Now I understand the A7 is the sensor with more dynamic range, I am not sure which one I prefer in regards to skin color, probably both do a good job.
    The A7 has the advantage to be smaller body and slightly smaller lens.
    The 6d has the advantage to have faster AF also in dim light, and also for continues AF, the 24-70/4.0IS should be clearly better than the Sony/Zeiss at least is one is interested in the whole range of focal lengths and whole frame.
    I also get a nice display on top of the camera where I can see f-stop, ISO etc.
    I can also use the excellent 70-200/4.0IS which cost 2/3 of the equivalent from Sony (which is announced).
    And for those times where weight is not so important I can allways put a 24-70/2.8, or a sigma 35/1.4 or a 85/1.2 on the camera and the weight balance between camera and body is still fine.

    So for me I am leaning towards the small DSLR over the A7, but I have not yet decided.
    Why do you prefer the A7 over the DSLR? Is there anything I have not recognized yet?
    Maybe the difference is sensor IQ is bigger than I expect? (A7 being much better than Canon?...) How does it look if we judge combo of lens and sensor?

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Hi Marc,
    personally I am debating myself to either add a 6d and a 24-70/4-0IS to my Canon kit or to get an A7 with Zeiss Zoom.
    Now I understand the A7 is the sensor with more dynamic range, I am not sure which one I prefer in regards to skin color, probably both do a good job.
    The A7 has the advantage to be smaller body and slightly smaller lens.
    The 6d has the advantage to have faster AF also in dim light, and also for continues AF, the 24-70/4.0IS should be clearly better than the Sony/Zeiss at least is one is interested in the whole range of focal lengths and whole frame.
    I also get a nice display on top of the camera where I can see f-stop, ISO etc.
    I can also use the excellent 70-200/4.0IS which cost 2/3 of the equivalent from Sony (which is announced).
    And for those times where weight is not so important I can allways put a 24-70/2.8, or a sigma 35/1.4 or a 85/1.2 on the camera and the weight balance between camera and body is still fine.

    So for me I am leaning towards the small DSLR over the A7, but I have not yet decided.
    Why do you prefer the A7 over the DSLR? Is there anything I have not recognized yet?
    Maybe the difference is sensor IQ is bigger than I expect? (A7 being much better than Canon?...) How does it look if we judge combo of lens and sensor?
    That's a tough call Tom. It is so dependent on personal use and end objectives. My second shooters tend to use Canon equipment and L lenses, and I do see a difference when post processing them next to images I shoot with Zeiss and Leica optics. Whether that difference is bad or good is subjective. I just sold my A900 to one of them, so that will make it easier for what weddings I still have left for this year

    Frankly, I only use my A99 SLT to shoot weddings. I rarely use it for any other sort of photography. I do take it with me as back-up to my Leica S2P, but only occasionally use it.

    The reasons for keeping the FF 35mm A99 are all the features that lend themselves to working a fast paced wedding shoot: Already tried and true Hybrid AF. Dual card capture. IBIS. Highly articulated LCD. Full compliment of Zeiss ZA AF lenses from 16mm to an AF 500 mirror. It is a system suited to the task, and many others if they arise.

    In addition, the reason I do not see the A7R as a replacement for the A99 (yet) is the use of TTL speed-lights … what is currently available are too big on the little Sonys.

    Remove wedding photography from the criteria, and the A7/A7R then becomes a primary consideration due to small size/less bulk, easy use of my M lenses due to fast Focus Peaking/Focus Mag … and simple selection of the AF FE55/1.8 as a one lens walk about. Other than a Leica M camera with a M 50mm, not many 50s deliver that level of performance at that size. Interestingly, I didn't have any issues shooting the A7R's AF in very low available light.

    I don't use long zoom lenses, and in fact would NEVER spend the money these companies are now asking. My sister-in-law has a mint Canon FD 70-210/4 Macro zoom I just tied on the A7R for a few test portrait shots, and was delighted with the results. Damned thing cost less that the adapter to put it on the camera.

    - Marc
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  28. #28
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Thanks Marc,
    one thing which you mention would be a strong argument for the A7.
    I could use my M lenses on the M and on the A7, while for the Canon I have to have an extra set of lenses.
    If I got an A7 I could just use my Leica M 21mm/3.4 (if it works well on the A7?) and could sell my Zeiss 21/2.8 with Canon mount.
    I don't really need AF for ulra wide angle.
    Anyways...I think I went off topic here, because the thread is about Zeiss 24-70/4.0.

  29. #29
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Well, the thread was conceived as a small comparison of the A7 and M9 ... :-)

    I printed my first set of three 11x17 inch prints with the A7 on Sunday evening. The print quality at this size is gorgeous. Not that it's any less gorgeous with the M9 ...

    There's just so much to like about both of these cameras. They are very different—technology, feel, working methodology, etc etc—but both are very fine tools for making photographs.

    My preference is for the A7 overall because of the viewfinder and the lens kit I have that it is so compatible with. There are several things about the M9 (and its younger M240 sibling, or MM sibling) that I really like a lot, but the lenses are more important in the end analysis ... to me anyway.

    Who knows? I might just keep the M9 anyway, cut down the lens kit I have for it to only a couple. That's what I always used to do in the film era: Nikon with 8-12 lenses, Leica with 2-3 lenses. It works... ;-)

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    No CA
    Posts
    796
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Hi Godfrey,

    I too will keep both because for me they're complementary: M9 and RF for adequate light, A7 with bright EVF and higher ISOs for lower light levels.

    For street photography I've been carrying them simultaneously with one lens, usually 40 Summicron. Either body (without lens) fits in a jacket pocket while using the other one. Outdoors, M9 and RF; indoors I switch the lens to A7.

    I prefer RF outdoors because A7 in bright light and smaller apertures doesn't give a good sense of contrast and color.

    OK, one M240 body would do the same thing – but I'm still boycotting its color rendering, added 'features,' exalted price, and at this point its obsolescence.

    For me, your test shots validated my acceptance of both, because my preferences within the pairs went back and forth (with predominance of 'Likes' for A7). My preferences were probably attributable to the difference in metering systems – I tended to prefer the file that was exposed for the brighter midrange. (I didn't pixel-peep the corners.)

  31. #31
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    ...
    I too will keep both because for me they're complementary: M9 and RF for adequate light, A7 with bright EVF and higher ISOs for lower light levels.
    ...
    The situation is made a little more complex for me by the fact that I have a complete Olympus E-M1 system as well, with a superb array of lenses. The E-M1's image stabilization, excellent sensor, and great responsiveness, as well as its almost unheard of customization options and high sensitivity, makes it an extremely versatile performer. Particularly with long focal length lenses ... there's no other camera I've used that I can reliably, consistently hand-hold a 500mm+ EFOV lens in a wide range of lighting and get such sharp, camera-movement free exposures.

    As said before, there is such a wealth of superb cameras available nowadays!

    For today's carry about, I've pulled out my Polaroid 350 Land Camera and fitted a pack of Fuji FP-3000B film. A spare film pack in my bag, and I'm off to the office. :-)

    G

  32. #32
    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Studio City, CA
    Posts
    700
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    18

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Godfrey, this is a great piece of work. Thanks SO much for taking the time to put it together and post it!

  33. #33
    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Colorado USA
    Posts
    518
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ...before I make a decision about whether to keep or sell the M9...


    (Just kidding)

    I am still in awe of how much camera $2K buys these days. But maybe I should hang onto a couple of older, rougher-edged models, because sometimes a little authentic sensor noise and lack of fine detail is called for.

  34. #34
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: comparing the A7 to the M9 ...

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post


    (Just kidding)

    I am still in awe of how much camera $2K buys these days. But maybe I should hang onto a couple of older, rougher-edged models, because sometimes a little authentic sensor noise and lack of fine detail is called for.
    That's one of the notions for why I still love the Olympus E-1 ... :-)

    G

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •