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Thread: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I had thought that the difference might be in colour casts and possibly vignetting but this morning I went for a stroll with Jono's A7 and my 35mm F2.8 and took some of my standard shots. I later compared them to some of the same scenes shot with the same lens but on the A7R. When resed to the same size, the A7 files had sharper edges.

    Maybe the micro lenses on the A7R 'does' something unhelpful to wides? But it has answered the question as to why Jono thought the 28-70 was great and I thought it was pretty cruddy: my 28-70 (now long gone) was very soft at the edges a lot of the time and nothing you did with stopping down would help much...

    Not scientific, though tomorrow I can do some proper side by sides, but in this initial impression the 35 F2.8 looks like a much better lens on the non-R...
    Last edited by tashley; 1st April 2014 at 04:46.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    A bit of a contradiction because you mention the A7r is better at the end of the paragraph...

    Micro - lenses and wides will usually show color cast because of shallow angles of incidence of light on the sensor, resulting in green or red color casts. Perhaps the EFC of the A7 results in a sharper image? One of the main reasons i'm shooting with the A7 is because it renders color much better when shooting with fast, wide "M" lenses and is capable of sharper photos with the EFC. Doesn't the A7 also have micro - lenses? IMO, 24 mp is the sweet spot for most of today's lens designs.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 1st April 2014 at 05:05.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    The aperture doesn't really matter, the files have sharper edges on the A7 at 2.8 thru 8. which is where I have so far shot. The difference is less notable as you stop down but it is there.

    Of course the colour cast behaviour is evident with wides. That's why most of my Leica glass has gone, and from what I understand the event of the problem differs between the 7 and the R and a lot of shooters of both have given up with their M wides.

    I am merely discussing edge sharpness and I was not aware that there would be a difference, which there does seem to be.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    It may be simply resolving power. Given the same lens same apertures the lens may not be able to resolve a full 36 mpx off center
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I have both and I would generally agree that this is the general rule regarding the A7 and A7r. I'm sure there are possibly some exceptions to be found adapting glass and there are exception where the wide glass works well on both. I don't know if it's the higher resolving power or what but I do see that most wides work better on the A7 than the A7r but you can't beat the A7r for normal to shorter telephoto (45-180mm.)

    Case in point the 24 Elmar has severe CC on the A7r but it's perfectly fine in most real world shots on the A7 using the LR5 lens correction. There's even some differences (though very small) using the Rokinon 14/T3.1 or the Voigtlander 21/1.8. Those are lenses that works well on both after corrections.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    It may be simply resolving power. Given the same lens same apertures the lens may not be able to resolve a full 36 mpx off center
    Nope - down-resing shows the same thing.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    My non-scientific quick and dirty test with legacy lens showed no advantage to A7. I am afraid that there is no golden rule.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Tim, would it not be that the capture is when the result is determined and the downsizing is shutting the gate after the horse bolted? In that you are downloading a compromised file with low contrast and/or mushy corners, incapable of remediation.

    My CY Distagon 21mm does very good corners on the a7r, better than on the a99, but like the 21 and 24 SEMs (which sadly have excessive beam angles) it is exceptional.

    I believe all lenses must work harder on the a7r, this has been a consistent pattern since day 1. The mighty small one rewards optical excellence but punishes optical weakness. Of course almost all wide angles tend to drop off more and it shows in the MTF data. Same problem with almost all normal lenses - the otherwise great 50 Makro-Planar has just 50% the fine detail performance at the corners as in the image centre.

    Photozone found the FE35 to have a significant drop off in midframe and corners, tested on the a7r; and it shows up in the slrgear Blur Index chart as well - tested on the a7r also. You should also see much better image centre resolution from the a7r than the a7.

    You can simply get away with more design weakness in the lens with less resolution on the sensor. As sensor resolution goes up the gap between image centre and corners gets wider and much more obvious. D700 owners are well placed!

    35mm lenses are simply hard to design for fine corners. People can wait for the next RX1 with the 36Mp non-AA filter inside, it will break the trend as that lens is ready for anything.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I suspected this might be the case from the beginning, which is why I bought the A7 for my all-adapted-lenses kit intent. I haven't seen positive proof as yet since I don't have an A7r to compare directly against the A7, but I know that with most of my Leica R and Nikkor lenses I'm getting very good performance across the board, even down to the 18mm.

    36 Mpixel sensors are pretty demanding.

    I'll be watching to see your test results, Tim.

    G

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Philip, it is well understood that, as you say, when resolution of sensors increases, weaknesses in lenses is revealed. Clearly a full frame sensor with just ten pixels would be undemanding whereas one with 100mp would be very fussy. At some point in between, and it might be at 16mp 24mp or 36mp or 50mp, the lens will reach the limits, at some part of its field of view, of whether it can supply enough resolved information to match the resolution of the sensor.

    The corollary of this is that even if that point is reached at, say, 34mp, a file taken on a 36mp sensor and then down-resed to 24mp should be at least as good as a file taken with that lens on a 24mp sensor.

    If, as I suspect is the case with the A7 and A7R, a same-aperture file taken with a lens such as the 35mm F2.8 on the A7R, when down-resed to 24mp looks worse at some points in the frame than the A7 file, then there is a specific issue with the higher mp sensor which does not relate purely to the increase in pixel resolution. I suspect it relates to the arrangement of micro lenses.

    So I think that you may have misunderstood my point: downresing the A7R file isn't an attempt at bolting the stable door - it is an exercise to determine whether the weakness of the 36mp file is caused by the sensor having out resolved the lens or whether there is some other factor.

    If the downresed file looked as good as the A7 file, we would suspect that the problem was that the 36mp sensor had out-resolved the lens at some points in the field of view. But if, as seems the case, the A7R file downresed looks worse, we should suspect other factors such as the micro lenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    Tim, would it not be that the capture is when the result is determined and the downsizing is shutting the gate after the horse bolted? In that you are downloading a compromised file with low contrast and/or mushy corners, incapable of remediation.

    My CY Distagon 21mm does very good corners on the a7r, better than on the a99, but like the 21 and 24 SEMs (which sadly have excessive beam angles) it is exceptional.

    I believe all lenses must work harder on the a7r, this has been a consistent pattern since day 1. The mighty small one rewards optical excellence but punishes optical weakness. Of course almost all wide angles tend to drop off more and it shows in the MTF data. Same problem with almost all normal lenses - the otherwise great 50 Makro-Planar has just 50% the fine detail performance at the corners as in the image centre.

    Photozone found the FE35 to have a significant drop off in midframe and corners, tested on the a7r; and it shows up in the slrgear Blur Index chart as well - tested on the a7r also. You should also see much better image centre resolution from the a7r than the a7.

    You can simply get away with more design weakness in the lens with less resolution on the sensor. As sensor resolution goes up the gap between image centre and corners gets wider and much more obvious. D700 owners are well placed!

    35mm lenses are simply hard to design for fine corners. People can wait for the next RX1 with the 36Mp non-AA filter inside, it will break the trend as that lens is ready for anything.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    My non-scientific quick and dirty test with legacy lens showed no advantage to A7. I am afraid that there is no golden rule.
    A lens with weaknesses will quite possibly look weak on both cameras if it is under-resolving both sensors or if it has ray angle issues which afflict both cameras similarly. But what I am getting at is that there seems to be at least one lens, and I suspect quite a few more, which displays problems on the A7R and not on the A7 which are not related to pure lens resolution and which are more likely related to micro lenses and sensor covers.

    So as you say, there won't be a golden rule: some lenses will be good on both, some on neither. But I do think it is worth bottoming out which lenses might actually produce more effective resolution on the A7 than on the A7R - and if possible, to understand why!

    We all tend to assume as a rough rule of thumb that the more resolution a sensor has, the more it will squeeze out of a lens in some parts of the field of view (usually on or close to centre). But it might well be the case that with some lenses, higher resolution sensor arrays are actively a worse choice even for a print size which both sensor resolutions can easily provide.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I suspected this might be the case from the beginning, which is why I bought the A7 for my all-adapted-lenses kit intent. I haven't seen positive proof as yet since I don't have an A7r to compare directly against the A7, but I know that with most of my Leica R and Nikkor lenses I'm getting very good performance across the board, even down to the 18mm.

    36 Mpixel sensors are pretty demanding.

    I'll be watching to see your test results, Tim.

    G
    I think you're right but, as in the above two posts, I don't think it is that the pure extra resolution of the A7R that is more demanding: if it were just that, a downresed A7R file would look about as good as an A7 file.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Obviously, all of this is based on subjective interpretation and nothing scientific. With all due respect it's obvious that not all wide lenses will look good on any camera, but that's what defines character in a lenses rendering of a scene. Just because the Sony A7/r's can mount almost any lens ever made, perhaps the glass is half full instead. It's the forest through the trees I think your overlooking here. Besides, you're just going to annoy the ones who purchased the A7r for it's resolution

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Hmm, I am only here referring to the one lens I have tried, the 35mm F2.8 - specifically designed for these two cameras. I think most people would assume (I did) that such a lens would look as good on a downresed A7R frame as it does on an A7 frame.

    If as I suspect (and am in the process of testing a little more) the A7 gives better results with at least one of the currently only four lenses in FE mount, then I will personally find it useful to know because I will swap out one of my A7Rs for an A7...

    More soon.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I'm with Tim
    1. The A7 is better with a number of wide angle lenses than the A7r
    2. It's to do with the sensor, and not the lens (although some lenses exacerbate the situation)

    As I recall the A7r has angled micro lenses and the A7 doesn't - Angled micro lenses will certainly make colour casts more likely unless corrected for in firmware. . . . which is why M mount lenses are more prone to colour casts on the A7r than on the A7.

    Some M lenses (for instance the 28 summicron) have mushy corners on the A7r, and less so on the A7 - this is not to do with the lens design (it's sparkly and sharp on the M240) . . once again, I suspect the Angled Microlenses on the A7r

    It's ironic that we expected the A7r with angled micro lenses to be BETTER with wides than the A7 . . . but lots of experience with Leica and their firmware shows that angled micro lenses are, at best, part of the solution, and there has to be lens specific firmware adjustments as well . . . which is why the M240 does NOT have angled micro lenses, and why it's less prone to nasty corners and colour shifts than the M9.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I suspected this might be the case from the beginning, which is why I bought the A7 for my all-adapted-lenses kit intent. I haven't seen positive proof as yet since I don't have an A7r to compare directly against the A7, but I know that with most of my Leica R and Nikkor lenses I'm getting very good performance across the board, even down to the 18mm.

    36 Mpixel sensors are pretty demanding.

    I'll be watching to see your test results, Tim.

    G
    HI Godfrey
    I've found all the R lenses to be fine on the A7r - the problem is with non-telecentric rangefinder lenses.

    I would have thought ALL lenses which were designed for use with an SLR and it's mirror box would be good on both cameras.


    . . . . . by which I mean "It's fine - go ahead and buy an A7r"

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I just did some side by side shots but I am loath to publish them because the light is very murky but they do back up my initial observations that at wider apertures the 35 F2.8 does better in terms of pure detail at the edges on the 7 than the R. The same is true for the 24mm end of the 24-70 zoom*. I do certainly suspect that the 28-70 has the same issues and is probably going to please 7 owners and mildly irritate R owners.

    I am going to buy a 7. For print sizes up to 30" it will most likely give better results with at least these lenses as an average over the frame even if the & has more detail on centre. I detest fluffy edges, unless I have purposefully arranged for them to happen. They make certain types of landscape work look badly done.

    The A7 gives more of an 'RX-1' style look with these lenses and makes the 24mm end of the 24-70 look pretty good. But the A7R leaves you reaching for the crop tool...

    * method: tripod, two plates, one on each camera, same everything on both bodies, RAW files given my normal sharpening (same of both but could be tweaked) and then exported to Photoshop for downresing to 4000 pixels (so they have BOTH been re-sized) and then compare in LR.
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I think you're right but, as in the above two posts, I don't think it is that the pure extra resolution of the A7R that is more demanding: if it were just that, a downresed A7R file would look about as good as an A7 file.
    I didn't mean to imply that it was only the increased resolution that increased the issues, Tim. But as we've seen with the Nikon D800 and D800E ... same sensor with and without AA filter ... they're both quite demanding on the lenses to produce their best results. I just had a gut feeling that the A7's sensor would be more compatible with the lenses I want to use.

    I am intrigued to see what the A7r does with the same lenses because at some point I'll want to acquire a second body. I have to decide whether it's worth buying an A7r or just getting another A7. Certainly the EFCS in the A7 is worthwhile having for the majority of situations I encounter, and the 24Mpixel resolution is more than enough to make superb prints at the sizes I print. :-)

    G

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Godfrey
    I've found all the R lenses to be fine on the A7r - the problem is with non-telecentric rangefinder lenses.

    I would have thought ALL lenses which were designed for use with an SLR and it's mirror box would be good on both cameras.

    . . . . . by which I mean "It's fine - go ahead and buy an A7r"
    Well, hmm, I was noticing that the Summicron-R 35mm does show a small bit of smearing at f/2 and f/2.8, cleans up nicely by f/4 or so. Others of my R lenses show some at distance settings, not at my usual test target distance.

    Normally, I'm not all that fussy about it ... important subject matter is rarely at the extreme corners of the frame, and it only becomes an issue when stitching frames were detail is important right to the edges (at which point, why use a wide anyway? use something that is easier to deal with ... ;-).

    No rush. I'm enjoying what I've got well enough. Just made the first few prints from the A7 exposure the other day and I have to say they look terrific. Not more terrific than similar quality exposures from the M9 or E-M1, but terrific all the same. ]'-)

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Maybe the micro lenses on the A7R 'does' something unhelpful to wides? -tashley

    That seems to imply more than just the 35mm f/2.8.

    Micro - lenses in the A7r are probably more to offset the short back flange distance because of the shallow angles of incidence. Lens design is also prone to many variables, so what one lens does on a particular camera may not in fact, do the same on another. Although some of your inputs are thought provoking, I'd be careful not to do "something unhelpful" to A7r just because of a casual observation from one shoot.
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I would not go by that lens either as it is known to be soft in the corners, why I sent mine back and never replaced it. Nice lens but my corners where bad.
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Maybe the micro lenses on the A7R 'does' something unhelpful to wides? -tashley

    That seems to imply more than just the 35mm f/2.8.

    Micro - lenses in the A7r are probably more to offset the short back flange distance because of the shallow angles of incidence. Lens design is also prone to many variables, so what one lens does on a particular camera may not in fact, do the same on another. Although some of your inputs are thought provoking, I'd be careful not to do "something unhelpful" to A7r just because of a casual observation from one shoot.

    Ahhh but... I do roughly know what I'm doing. So far I have certainly identified to my own satisfaction that there are edge improvements with the 35mm (with which I started this thread) and the 24-70 at 24mm, when shot on the 7 rather than the R. I have made no further claims than that, merely raised the question. We've all read the spec differences between the micro lenses on the two sensors and many of us have had M240 and M9 and M8 and have seen how that all panned out.

    I wouldn't expect 'normal' design lenses (i.e. SLR type flange distances) to be affected and in my experience so far (I have tried many) I haven't had reason to suspect that they perform any worse on the R than on, say, a D800e. But I do at least suspect that some of the Leica M wides I recently sold may have performed better on the 7 than the R.

    I think most experienced photographers, especially those with experience of Leica digital M and Sony A7/R, are aware of all the issues relating to back flange distance and micro lenses.

    So I have no intention of doing something unhelpful: thinking by extrapolation is something I use in order to reach hypotheses for further testing, rather than conclusions! But I do suspect that shooters of short flange distance wide lenses, even those designed specifically for FE mount, might as a good generalisation get tighter edges on a 7 than an R and that is, I think, useful information. It's not unhelpful to know more, in my book...
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I would not go by that lens either as it is known to be soft in the corners, why I sent mine back and never replaced it. Nice lens but my corners where bad.
    Guy, mine is a reasonably good copy (my third I think) but the same thing is visible on the wide end of the Zeiss zoom. It's the smaller pixels and the micro lenses and the ray angles, I'd make an educated bet on it.
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    For anyone wanting a refresher the original brochure for both cameras is linked here and it is worth noting that the differences are on pages 16 and 17 and in short are:

    A7R has no AA filter, A7 does
    A7R has smaller pixels
    A7R has gapless on-chip lenses

    I assume that this is because the smaller pixels of the R mean that peripheral areas need 'cleverer' lenses in order to mitigate the various problems introduced by the pixels being smaller.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Maybe the micro lenses on the A7R 'does' something unhelpful to wides? -tashley

    That seems to imply more than just the 35mm f/2.8.

    Micro - lenses in the A7r are probably more to offset the short back flange distance because of the shallow angles of incidence. Lens design is also prone to many variables, so what one lens does on a particular camera may not in fact, do the same on another. Although some of your inputs are thought provoking, I'd be careful not to do "something unhelpful" to A7r just because of a casual observation from one shoot.
    HI Johnny
    It is more than just the 35mm f2.8

    It's not just one shoot (at least, not for me) - I tried thoroughly and carefully with 9 different rangefinder lenses. Smudgy corners and colour casts were the order of the day with many (but not all) of the lenses 35mm and wider - mostly longer than that was okay. . . . and I'm certainly not alone in this. Others have found the same. The A7 is better (but not completely okay). . . . It's hardly surprising, and not really a criticism either - just an observation.

    For me - I'll happily use the A7 or A7r with pretty much any SLR lenses (like Leica R lenses) but I've given up using it with M lenses because the results are patchy and unpredictable - not worth the candle IMHO.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I can't speak for the a7, but this shot is from the a7r and 12 mm Voigtlander - they don't come much wider. The purpose was to look for colour casts. There were lots, so I'm using P1's LCC to correct and it works very well. I chose the ice because any errant colour would show up easily.

    Other shots show perfectly satisfactory edge and corner detail; perhaps it would be better on the a7, but what I'm getting with the a7r is fine for my purposes.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Johnny
    It is more than just the 35mm f2.8

    It's not just one shoot (at least, not for me) - I tried thoroughly and carefully with 9 different rangefinder lenses. Smudgy corners and colour casts were the order of the day with many (but not all) of the lenses 35mm and wider - mostly longer than that was okay. . . . and I'm certainly not alone in this. Others have found the same. The A7 is better (but not completely okay). . . . It's hardly surprising, and not really a criticism either - just an observation.

    For me - I'll happily use the A7 or A7r with pretty much any SLR lenses (like Leica R lenses) but I've given up using it with M lenses because the results are patchy and unpredictable - not worth the candle IMHO.
    Hi Jono,

    Thanks for the comment. I agree that some rangefinder lenses will show color casts based on the physics of the the A7r sensor. That's why I chose the A7 specifically for the use of wide lenses. This is something many have pointed out regarding the a7/r. Either one is an outstanding camera. Perhaps an A7r for b/u will suffice when I want the absolute in resolution with something 50mm and up!
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I am not good reader mostly if it is long posts or threads, so let me ask you:

    What i should buy [even i bought already], A7 or A7R?

    Which lenses to buy for any of them if i get one of them?
    Tareq

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    I am not good reader mostly if it is long posts or threads, so let me ask you:

    What i should buy [even i bought already], A7 or A7R?

    Which lenses to buy for any of them if i get one of them?
    Tareq,

    A) How experienced are you? (0= I never took a photo, 10= Ansel Adams)
    B) Do you ever make prints? If you do, what is your maximum print size?
    C) What sort of subjects do you mostly photograph?
    D) Do you often shoot at 35mm or wider?
    E) Are you experienced with processing from RAW or do you shoot JPEG?
    F) What is you current camera?

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Tareq,

    A) How experienced are you? (0= I never took a photo, 10= Ansel Adams)
    B) Do you ever make prints? If you do, what is your maximum print size?
    C) What sort of subjects do you mostly photograph?
    A) I can't answer this about myself, i am not a beginner at all but i am not a master or pro, just very closer to a semi pro, but say advanced freelancer hobbyist

    B) I did print some before, but not much lately, but i will for sure. Size? Depends for whom i print, for myself i like to print minimum A4, for some galleries say from A2 and larger, few photos i love i can print up to 1m wide

    C) Landscapes if i will buy one of those Sony A 7 series, architecture, cityscape
    Tareq

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Tareq,

    A) How experienced are you? (0= I never took a photo, 10= Ansel Adams)
    B) Do you ever make prints? If you do, what is your maximum print size?
    C) What sort of subjects do you mostly photograph?
    D) Do you often shoot at 35mm or wider?
    E) Are you experienced with processing from RAW or do you shoot JPEG?
    F) What is you current camera?
    A, B, C answered

    D) Ofcourse, in landscape and architecture i mostly shoot at widest, even sometimes i try to make 24mm as longest i shoot, so imagine what widest i want to use.

    E) What do you think? I shoot with Canon top DSLRs and i have Hasselblad digital medium format, so do you think i am not shooting with RAW? even when i shoot soccer of our local team i do shoot in RAW while press photographers all shoot with JPEG for reasons i know.

    F) My current camera i use mostly is Canon 1DX, not much using my H4D-60, 1Ds3 is a backup for my 1DX, 1D3 is another backup for sports but i may sell it, i already have 1Ds2 and 1D2n and 5Dc and 30D and large format and many film medium formats, also my last addition is Sony A....

    So which one to go with or you think which one i chose? I hope i didn't make a wrong choice for any reason
    Tareq

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    HI There Tareq
    What I would say is that if you are going to print up to 30" then you should get the A7 - it has advantages with a quieter shutter, less camera shake and some improvements with wide angle lenses.

    If you want to print up to 40" then you may find the A7r is better, but you'll have to be much more careful with your lens selection.

    If you want to print larger than 40" then you'd better go back to Medium Format.

    All the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    I agree 100% with Jono.

    I have the R and will soon get the normal 7 for use with wider lenses and the zoom, but I also keep medium format if I want really big prints.

    You obviously know what you're doing, and will make good shots with either camera... your needs are mostly better met by the A7 with the exception of the occasional need to print larger. There's no 'one size fits all'... yet!
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Ok, let's say you answered my half question, the another half is: what lenses to choose? suppose i go with A7 or with A7R, what lens[es] to get for this or for that?
    Tareq

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    My feeling is that there is a real argument for having both cameras . . . . . . . . .
    But if you're going to have one, then it's probably better to have the A7.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Ok, let's say you answered my half question, the another half is: what lenses to choose? suppose i go with A7 or with A7R, what lens[es] to get for this or for that?
    Get the native lenses . . . .

    55 f1.8 and 24-70 zoom

    If you have other third party lenses already then try them . . . . . but don't buy them specially.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    You might want to add a Canon 17mm TSE with Metabones III adaptor. It'll give you a very nice wide prime with the bonus of movements for architecture and the ability to make bigger files by stitching for when you are doing landscapes and want to print large.
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Get the native lenses . . . .

    55 f1.8 and 24-70 zoom

    If you have other third party lenses already then try them . . . . . but don't buy them specially.
    Well, i have Canon DSLR lenses already so later will buy an adapter to use those, also i have Hasselblad manual lenses of 500 series, not sure if there is an adapter for those.

    But, why you chose those 2 lenses of 50 and 24-70 as first choices? why not 35 and 16-35, or 50 and 70-200?
    Tareq

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    You might want to add a Canon 17mm TSE with Metabones III adaptor. It'll give you a very nice wide prime with the bonus of movements for architecture and the ability to make bigger files by stitching for when you are doing landscapes and want to print large.
    I am a poor guy, but i will add this lens for sure later to my collection, for now i will practice with TS-E 24mm II until i can afford that 17mm and adapter
    Tareq

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    The 55 is the second best lens ever made (not starting a war here but it could be argued) after the Otus. The 24-70 is just really useful. The 35 is nice but is optional since the zoom is good at that focal length. There's no native FE mount 16-35.

    EDIT: I have the 17 TSE and it is quite useful.
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Well, i have Canon DSLR lenses already so later will buy an adapter to use those, also i have Hasselblad manual lenses of 500 series, not sure if there is an adapter for those.

    But, why you chose those 2 lenses of 50 and 24-70 as first choices? why not 35 and 16-35, or 50 and 70-200?
    Hi There
    Sorry, I should have said 55 f1.8 not 50.

    Well, not the 35 because it doesn't seem to be so perfect
    the 16-35 is an A mount lens - you'll need a big adapter and it rather destroys the point
    70-200 is the same (A mount) - later on in the year there will be an f4 version, but not yet (and it's white).

    There are only 4 Native FE mount lenses available now
    28-70 kit lens (decent on A7 if you get a good copy)
    24-70 f4 - idiosyncratic but finally satisfying
    35 f2.8 - not bad, but not great either
    55 f1.8 - stunning quality

    all the best

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There
    Sorry, I should have said 55 f1.8 not 50.

    Well, not the 35 because it doesn't seem to be so perfect
    the 16-35 is an A mount lens - you'll need a big adapter and it rather destroys the point
    70-200 is the same (A mount) - later on in the year there will be an f4 version, but not yet (and it's white).

    There are only 4 Native FE mount lenses available now
    28-70 kit lens (decent on A7 if you get a good copy)
    24-70 f4 - idiosyncratic but finally satisfying
    35 f2.8 - not bad, but not great either
    55 f1.8 - stunning quality

    all the best
    I see

    honestly, i feel i want to start with that 55 f1.8 and then add more according to the needs, i may buy the adapter for Canon so then it may help me to be wisely on choosing Native lenses for Sony A7 series
    Tareq
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Than you very much!
    Tareq
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    I see

    honestly, i feel i want to start with that 55 f1.8 and then add more according to the needs, i may buy the adapter for Canon so then it may help me to be wisely on choosing Native lenses for Sony A7 series
    Good Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Than you very much!
    It's a pleasure

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    This is an interesting point. I need an UWA lens for my A7r. I had been thinking of the 18mm Zeiss but all my data on the corners is from viewing the RAW images Guy so helpfully provided, they were shot on a D800e. I had assumed that given the same sensor I could successfully extrapolate what it would look like on the A7r. With the microlenses I may however be setting myself up for disappointment. What do you all think of that?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    This is an interesting point. I need an UWA lens for my A7r. I had been thinking of the 18mm Zeiss but all my data on the corners is from viewing the RAW images Guy so helpfully provided, they were shot on a D800e. I had assumed that given the same sensor I could successfully extrapolate what it would look like on the A7r. With the microlenses I may however be setting myself up for disappointment. What do you all think of that?
    I Think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.
    On the other hand it may be wonderful . . . .

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Wish there was an easy answer it's a lot of mullah to part with on a single prime. Suppose it would help if I lived somewhere were I could try it. Dirt cheap to rent from Lensrentals, you guys in the states are lucky!
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    This is an interesting point. I need an UWA lens for my A7r. I had been thinking of the 18mm Zeiss but all my data on the corners is from viewing the RAW images Guy so helpfully provided, they were shot on a D800e. I had assumed that given the same sensor I could successfully extrapolate what it would look like on the A7r. With the microlenses I may however be setting myself up for disappointment. What do you all think of that?
    You might want to look at the Nikkor 18mm f/3.5 AI-S.

    I don't know why people I've mentioned it to seem to have a chip on their shoulder about this lens ... The testing and shooting I did with it show it to be an excellent performer on the A7. Corners and edges are very very good IMO, and rectilinear distortion is both simple and minimal. And they're not particularly expensive.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I can't speak for the a7, but this shot is from the a7r and 12 mm Voigtlander - they don't come much wider. The purpose was to look for colour casts. There were lots, so I'm using P1's LCC to correct and it works very well. I chose the ice because any errant colour would show up easily.

    Other shots show perfectly satisfactory edge and corner detail; perhaps it would be better on the a7, but what I'm getting with the a7r is fine for my purposes.

    Georgian Bay is completely frozen from shore to shore!

    Bill
    Bill,

    your example is nearly perfect.
    An even better result you get when you use to first the Lens Compensation app and then make your own LCC in C1. The correction in C1 is not as fast at the limit.

    Try it out, you'll be amazed.

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    Re: Is the A7 better than the A7R at the edges with wides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    You might want to look at the Nikkor 18mm f/3.5 AI-S.

    I don't know why people I've mentioned it to seem to have a chip on their shoulder about this lens ... The testing and shooting I did with it show it to be an excellent performer on the A7. Corners and edges are very very good IMO, and rectilinear distortion is both simple and minimal. And they're not particularly expensive.

    G
    You got it on A7 or A7r Godfrey?

    Thing is, if a Zeiss might not be good enough, an old Nikkor, hmm. I tried the Oly 21mm MC, brand new, never used. To be honest, didn't come close. The older lens designs just don't seem to have it and even the best of the modern, Zeiss are questionable.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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