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Thread: A7s!

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    Re: A7s!


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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I am never on Facebook, have a account but I hate it so I am never on it. My kids on the other hand I would love it if they stayed far away from it. Seriously I think it is a very dangerous place in many ways. My privacy is mine not the freaking worlds. I really try and keep my wife and myself far away from it and the gossip. My wife has had big health issues and that is something we keep far away from Facebook.
    seconded I closed my account over a year ago and dont miss it , it's totally ridiculous!! a great decision for me.

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    Re: A7s!

    I didn't think I was in the market for a new camera but this is tempting.. Still trying to have strength to wait until after Photokina for any purchases.
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    Zoran, I am thinking you are a delightful cynic, lol.
    Thanks LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    TBH, Sony's problem with the a7s for stills shooters is that the a7 and even more so the a7r (relative to res) are so competent already - in ALL light.
    I feel you are right. I am already very happy with results from my A7R (when coupled with certain lenses) so any extra DR etc would not play huge importance to me, what I would care about is would I like files from it more than ones downsized from A7R and would it play better with my legacy lenses than A7R does.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I didn't think I was in the market for a new camera but this is tempting.. Still trying to have strength to wait until after Photokina for any purchases.
    My thoughts exactly. Lol
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    Re: A7s!

    To me this is not a generalist type camera. It's more for a very specific type of shooting. Not saying its something not to buy as a generalist cam but I think the A7/A7r fill that bill better.
    Maybe better said a 2nd cam in your system. I have 3 now so I'm covered pretty well at ISO 1600 and slower.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7s!

    Guy, it's in stock at B&H, has been for a while. I am surprised I actually knew about this cam before you ordered one!

    Here you go: Sony a7S Alpha Mirrorless Digital Camera ILCE7S/B B&H Photo



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    Re: A7s!

    Lol I known about it for awhile. It has only one shortcoming that has stopped me from buying it. The AF is not nearly as good as my A77Ii for focus tracking. Plus in this case full frame for my specific need does not help me. I would have to use a 300mm 2.8. With the A77II I get 300 with a 70-200 2.8 that I'm renting for my shows. But here 12mpx would actually be better.

    My needs here are for big runway shows so I need good focus tracking. the A7 series has nice AF but continuous the A77Ii smokes it and many other models out there. So at the moment the A77II is better but after Photokinia that may change. I'm expecting quite a few surprises from Sony
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Guy, it's in stock at B&H, has been for a while. I am surprised I actually knew about this cam before you ordered one!

    Here you go: Sony a7S Alpha Mirrorless Digital Camera ILCE7S/B B&H Photo



    /
    Enabler...
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Some very optimistic results

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    Re: A7s!

    ...and then comes the
    Sony A7S Review - Conclusion | PhotographyBLOG

    thorkil

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    Re: A7s!

    The one part reading that which immediately puts the brakes on for me as I would have got this instead of the A77II was the focus speed. I just don't know how much faster it would be than the A7 as last show I used the A7 with the 70-200 2.8 with Lae-4 adapter to squeeze out 300mm for me as I shot it in crop mode. Now if I had the A7s I would rent the 300mm 2.8 instead of the 70-200 but with the adapter you lose those AF points too .My burning question and no review answered it yet except eluding to the fact a Pro DSLR is faster at AF tracking continuous. Now the above A7 rig worked but was not ideal either. This would actually be better as the 12mpx is perfect for me on this stuff and a fast 300mm 2.8 would be perfect maybe more rental fee but who cares. Seriously if I knew the answer i would have bought this over the A77II which is a crop camera and the 70-200 gives me a 300mm but the focus tracking on it is better than ANYTHING I have seen to date. Yes folks its that freaking delicious. Im afraid to hit the wall on the A7s and reason i did not jump on it. It still leaves the AF tracking ability a hanging question mark. I can't take that risk although I want too, I'm just smarter than that. End of day for this type of shooting I think I made the right call on the A77II.

    If Sony can pull off better AF tracking like it did on the A6000 and A77II in the 7 series and has the glass to support it than I can completely commit to the 7 series until than I will use the A glass and whatever body fits the job. For normal shooting for folks this is not even a issue, Im just very high at risk with a LOT of money on the line so I have to be sure of it. Since it is spec work I have to have brilliant images or no one will buy prints. Im my own client here. LOL


    Regardless of my special needs you got love the effort Sony is throwing at our feet. Since when do you get the same body type and three distinct different sensor options. Its like picking your film. If you can't admire them for this type of push in the industry than I feel really sorry for ya because you have no clue on this industry. This stuff is unheard of until now
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7s!

    Guy, just wait for the the A99II . Iīm sure it will be a high iso monster, with crazy fast AF, dual sd slots, in-camera 4k video and IS!

    The A7s is very very tempting for me as it would kill when the bride and groom hit the very very dark dance floor. AF does worry me though.

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    Re: A7s!

    Is the 24-70 the widest option in native mount for the A7? If so, does anyone have comments on performance at 24? I have just the application for this A7s but it needs a wide lens.

    Mat

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Guy, just wait for the the A99II . Iīm sure it will be a high iso monster, with crazy fast AF, dual sd slots, in-camera 4k video and IS!

    The A7s is very very tempting for me as it would kill when the bride and groom hit the very very dark dance floor. AF does worry me though.
    Im EXPECTING a A99II to be killer good. The AF here does worry me some if that is something you are really going to need to be fast and in low light. Here it has the low light but I do question AF speed and accuracy. Right now for those type of shooters IMHO get the A77II for now and/or wait for the A99II. I would like it to be 36 mpx with a crop factor of 1.5 option as well. And the rest you mentioned
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Is the 24-70 the widest option in native mount for the A7? If so, does anyone have comments on performance at 24? I have just the application for this A7s but it needs a wide lens.

    Mat

    For now native it is the 24mm as the widest. 16-35 we are just waiting for release , my money says Photokinia. You do have the option of using a A mount 16-35 which is said to be very good with the Sony LAE-4 adapter. I use this adapter for my A7r and my A glass today. One issue is you only get AF points ala the A99. So center 9 points and it is still pretty darn fast AF. Obviously you have 3rd party lenses options as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7s!

    I just received the A7S last week and have not really had a chance to work with it yet. However, two things are clear so far. First, the files at 12,800 ISO look really clean. This opens up possibilities for me in using this camera that simply were not there before. I am headed to India for three weeks in October and will spend lots of time roaming around and photographing at twilight and beyond. I am very excited about being able to shoot in very low available light. I don't need the high ISO feature for action, just (very) low light travel photography. Second, the electronic shutter is amazing. Sony just completely eliminated ANY shutter vibration. What a difference this makes in hand held shooting. What a difference this makes in tripod shooting with longer lenses. I wonder what technical limitations prevented Sony from introducing this feature on the A7R. Will we see it on the A8?

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    Re: A7s!

    You sir need to go out and shoot and report back. Thats a direct order from the GAS aquisiton team. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    For now native it is the 24mm as the widest. 16-35 we are just waiting for release , my money says Photokinia. You do have the option of using a A mount 16-35 which is said to be very good with the Sony LAE-4 adapter. I use this adapter for my A7r and my A glass today. One issue is you only get AF points ala the A99. So center 9 points and it is still pretty darn fast AF. Obviously you have 3rd party lenses options as well.
    Thanks Guy, 16 would work, I have an aversion to adapters, irrational I know but there it is. I'm instructing aurora courses this winter and this could be the camera for stars and aurora shots, only need manual focus and a remote trigger.

    Mat

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    I just received the A7S last week and have not really had a chance to work with it yet. However, two things are clear so far. First, the files at 12,800 ISO look really clean. This opens up possibilities for me in using this camera that simply were not there before. I am headed to India for three weeks in October and will spend lots of time roaming around and photographing at twilight and beyond. I am very excited about being able to shoot in very low available light. I don't need the high ISO feature for action, just (very) low light travel photography. Second, the electronic shutter is amazing. Sony just completely eliminated ANY shutter vibration. What a difference this makes in hand held shooting. What a difference this makes in tripod shooting with longer lenses. I wonder what technical limitations prevented Sony from introducing this feature on the A7R. Will we see it on the A8?
    An electronic first curtain shutter should be sufficient to eliminate vibration in almost all shooting scenarios - any vibration from the closing of the second curtain would propagate long after the exposure is over. The reason a fully electronic curtain is not implemented more often is due to limitations in how fast the sensor can be read for a complete exposure - this creates motion and rolling shutter artifacts, even on the A7s which has a very fast read-out.

    Btw, I had a friend shoot some A7s raws to compare the dynamic range between the fully electronic shutter and the EFCS - it seems the fully electronic shutter robs a few stops of dynamic range:

    A7s EFCS vs Fully Electronic Shutter

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    Re: A7s!

    Well, it wasn't long, and I am back in the Sony Fray with the A7s. My decision hinged on it's capacity to be a body for M lenses. I had come to the conclusion, that in general, the camera best suited for M lenses is an M, but going back over the past few months of shooting, I did enjoy using the A7 both with native and M glass. Now the news that the A7s plays well with wides, and I decided to jump in, especially given the low light capabilities. At very first glance, the silent shutter function should be fantastic for most of what I shoot....that is, composed street shots...And at first blush, the sensor seems to do better with wide M's, the 21 super-elmar in particular....At the moment, I have no FE lenses, so it's going to be M lenses all the way, for a bit at least....fun fun fun!
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    Re: A7s!

    Maybe get the 55 for now. Be nice to have one that can AF and take advantage of all the AF points. Besides its killer good too
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Well, it wasn't long, and I am back in the Sony Fray with the A7s. My decision hinged on it's capacity to be a body for M lenses. I had come to the conclusion, that in general, the camera best suited for M lenses is an M, but going back over the past few months of shooting, I did enjoy using the A7 both with native and M glass. Now the news that the A7s plays well with wides, and I decided to jump in, especially given the low light capabilities. At very first glance, the silent shutter function should be fantastic for most of what I shoot....that is, composed street shots...And at first blush, the sensor seems to do better with wide M's, the 21 super-elmar in particular....At the moment, I have no FE lenses, so it's going to be M lenses all the way, for a bit at least....fun fun fun!
    This is great news. With respect to M-mount wides, is the improvement limited to just colour cast/vignetting or is there also less smearing?

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    Re: A7s!

    Great great question. It's the question that I specifically wonder about. From what I can tell, color cast/vignette doesn't appear to be much of an issue. I just started using my 28 summicron, which is notorious for smearing on the A7/7R, and I continue to see some of this when shot wide open. It's much harder to see smearing once you stop down to about f/5.6...

    I need to do much more testing, but that's my first blush....
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    Re: A7s!

    Looking forward to seeing some shots and hearing your opinion, Ashwin. I'm seriously considering this body for use with M-lenses only.
    Ed

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    Re: A7s!

    28 cron, wide open, ISO 1000, A7s....

    This is a very very rough test. Camera was handheld, shutter speed 1/2000 of a second, ISO 1000, natural evening light in my porch. No processing in LR other than "auto" exposure....I find the results interesting, but will let you draw your own conclusions. In my opinion, having used both the A7 and A7r, the A7s offers much better control of vignetting and color casts for wide lenses such as the 28 cron. I continue to see some corner smearing, but I would need to do a far more controlled test to determine how much.

    Full size:


    Center crop:


    Bottom left crop


    Bottom right crop:



    Top left crop


    Top right crop
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    28 cron, wide open, ISO 1000, A7s....

    This is a very very rough test. Camera was handheld, shutter speed 1/2000 of a second, ISO 1000. No processing in LR other than "auto" exposure....
    Thanks Ashwin. This is very helpful. I no longer have this lens but if I recall correctly it had to be stopped down to about f4 before it was sharp across the frame on my M9.

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    Re: A7s!

    Better question is does A7S show less smearing than A7/A7R shot would when downsized to 12 MP.

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    Re: A7s!

    Hard to say, but in my opinion, from experiences with the 28 cron and 21 SE in particular, the A7s is better. More importantly, I don't have to do a ton of color corrections to get the images to look right with the M lenses.

    It is by no means a replacement to the M240 on M9 (12 mp vs 18-24 mp; AA filter vs no AA filter, RF vs no RF) but seems that it will have a defined place in one's kit if they want it, particularly for low light...

    The unique offering of the A7 is likely its low light capacity, and for my type of photography with this camera (street), it will sit happy as a low light imager. Further, having looked through ISO, it does appear to have very good noise control through about ISO 10,000, possibly higher, and this suddenly allows lenses such as the Super Elmar to function well in very low light conditions...Could make for a great concert photog camera, for instance, were having affordable low light wides suddenly is an option now...
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Well, it wasn't long, and I am back in the Sony Fray with the A7s. My decision hinged on it's capacity to be a body for M lenses. I had come to the conclusion, that in general, the camera best suited for M lenses is an M, but going back over the past few months of shooting, I did enjoy using the A7 both with native and M glass. Now the news that the A7s plays well with wides, and I decided to jump in, especially given the low light capabilities. At very first glance, the silent shutter function should be fantastic for most of what I shoot....that is, composed street shots...And at first blush, the sensor seems to do better with wide M's, the 21 super-elmar in particular....At the moment, I have no FE lenses, so it's going to be M lenses all the way, for a bit at least....fun fun fun!
    Welcome back. You've been missed.
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    Re: A7s!

    Very tempting. I can envision a small kit with the A7s, Voigtlander 15, 40 & 75mm lenses.
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Well, it wasn't long, and I am back in the Sony Fray with the A7s. My decision hinged on it's capacity to be a body for M lenses. I had come to the conclusion, that in general, the camera best suited for M lenses is an M, but going back over the past few months of shooting, I did enjoy using the A7 both with native and M glass. Now the news that the A7s plays well with wides, and I decided to jump in, especially given the low light capabilities. At very first glance, the silent shutter function should be fantastic for most of what I shoot....that is, composed street shots...And at first blush, the sensor seems to do better with wide M's, the 21 super-elmar in particular....At the moment, I have no FE lenses, so it's going to be M lenses all the way, for a bit at least....fun fun fun!
    Saw your Flickr first earlier this evening. So what happened to the Fuji? You had some very nice shots with the 23mm and 56mm.

    Some random thoughts here with the 28 Elmarit III.

    And from a couple of different lenses, none of which show any corner color cast, but I do get the same results as you with smeared/soft corners/edges...

    40 M-Rokkor (CLE)

    f4


    f8 (i think, maybe f5.6)


    Nikkor S.C Nippon Kogaku Tokyo 50mm f1.4

    f1.4


    f2



    f2.8 (even here edges a little weak, but the lens is 50-60 years old and optimized for near/medium distances)
    "We're human, after all, and everybody's got something a little off somewhere." - Murakami Haruki, The fall of the Roman empire
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    Re: A7s!

    Come on, A7S owners! Stop teasing us and start posting some crazy high iso samples in near dark.

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    Re: A7s!

    Happy to report that for the most part, I have had zero issues with the A7s in real world shooting....here are a few in normal light...with 35 FLE, 50 APO, 90 Macro-Elmar...Only the 28 cron (and to a much lesser degree, the 35 FLE) have shown corner smearing, but no color casts at all...The corner smearing isn't a huge deal at all on the 35 FLE. I need to test the 21 SE more, but am hopeful from early shooting that it'll be useable....









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    Re: A7s!

    High ISO:

    ISO 12800, edited a bit:



    ISO 10000



    12800 again (a bit OOF)
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    Re: A7s!

    I would love to see the same image at ISO 400 and than one at 3200 if you get a chance
    Last edited by Guy Mancuso; 5th July 2014 at 21:29.
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    Re: A7s!

    Btw does the 7s have crop mode by chance
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    Re: A7s!

    "We're human, after all, and everybody's got something a little off somewhere." - Murakami Haruki, The fall of the Roman empire

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    Re: A7s!

    The question I have is how the A7S @ ISO 6400 or 12,800 would compare to a A7R image shot at ISO 3200 or 6400 pushed a stop? The noise comparison being same image with same print-size to print-size, where the A7R is 3X the resolution of the A7S thus 3X less enlargement.

    IMO, this camera would have to substantially beat the A7R to make up that 3X difference. At lower ISOs I would think there is no comparison.

    Of course, this is all mitigated by the choice of lenses … if one is looking for use of M lenses that do not play well with the A7R then that's an important deciding factor.

    - Marc
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    Re: A7s!

    The a7r - like it, fear it or hate it - is the most versatile and capable camera ever made.

    Guy, I from a read a guy who could not get his a7s to do files larger than 5Mb, so I am guessing that is it, as the maths make sense!

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    Re: A7s!

    The little girl's ISO 12800 pictures that Ashwin Rao posted like the A7's iso 6400. I would love to have access to these RAW files if possible.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    The little girl's ISO 12800 pictures that Ashwin Rao posted like the A7's iso 6400. I would love to have access to these RAW files if possible.
    Noise from the A7S using ISO 12,800 @ 12 meg is like A7 using ISO 6400 @ 24 meg … is that what you mean? One stop difference sounds like a wash when comparing similar print sizes.

    If that is true, then why would one want to be stuck with 12 meg at ISO 100 to 400 for a majority of images one would normally shoot where noise isn't an issue?

    I think you are right, it is very hard to evaluate images and ISO performance without access to the RAW files. It would be interesting if someone had both the A7S and A7 (or A7R) and could shoot a low light image at the same distance using the same lens (especially with people in the frame), then compare the full image on A3 prints for noise and color.

    - Marc

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    Re: A7s!

    I think with the 7s, Sony is going for the 4K video trend with the S-Log2 gamma capabilities, as opposed to trying to wow the still shooters.
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It would be interesting if someone had both the A7S and A7 (or A7R) and could shoot a low light image at the same distance using the same lens (especially with people in the frame), then compare the full image on A3 prints for noise and color.

    - Marc
    Marc:
    I'm sure someone else will step up in the meantime, but if the question remains unresolved by the 17th, I'll be able to compare the A7S and A7R head to head. I'm renting the A7S for a family party on the 19th. One other option is that Imaging Resource has some raw files for download for the A7S up on their site that can be compared to other cameras.

    Regards,
    John

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Noise from the A7S using ISO 12,800 @ 12 meg is like A7 using ISO 6400 @ 24 meg … is that what you mean? One stop difference sounds like a wash when comparing similar print sizes.

    If that is true, then why would one want to be stuck with 12 meg at ISO 100 to 400 for a majority of images one would normally shoot where noise isn't an issue?

    I think you are right, it is very hard to evaluate images and ISO performance without access to the RAW files. It would be interesting if someone had both the A7S and A7 (or A7R) and could shoot a low light image at the same distance using the same lens (especially with people in the frame), then compare the full image on A3 prints for noise and color.

    - Marc
    I'd be interested in a downrez comparison to the A7r too, there's a lot of downrezzing there to reduce noise.

    I downrezzed a iso 2000 image from my A7r (albeit shot in good light) to match what I'm used to from my long used 5Dc's. I'd say that the A7r at 100% downrezzed matched the 5Dc at around iso 100 for cleanliness and purity of image. Couldn't believe it. When you are downrezzing from 36 to 12 megapixels the files look more than lovely...
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Noise from the A7S using ISO 12,800 @ 12 meg is like A7 using ISO 6400 @ 24 meg … is that what you mean? One stop difference sounds like a wash when comparing similar print sizes.

    If that is true, then why would one want to be stuck with 12 meg at ISO 100 to 400 for a majority of images one would normally shoot where noise isn't an issue?

    I think you are right, it is very hard to evaluate images and ISO performance without access to the RAW files. It would be interesting if someone had both the A7S and A7 (or A7R) and could shoot a low light image at the same distance using the same lens (especially with people in the frame), then compare the full image on A3 prints for noise and color.

    - Marc
    I'll have my A7s in a few days and will be able to perform this comparison. In the meantime here's a comp I did between the D800 and Df, which can serve as proxies for the A7r and A7s as they have very similar performance to the Sony bodies. At normalized resolutions (I chose 8MP like DxOMark) there is no discernible difference at ISO 6400 and very little difference at ISO 12,800.

    Df vs D800 vs 6D High ISO and DR: Nikon FX SLR (DF, D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    …. why would one want to be stuck with 12 meg at ISO 100 to 400 for a majority of images one would normally shoot where noise isn't an issue?……….
    Silent shutter?

    A 'stuckist' might say it depends on which kind of noise annoys the most.

    ……………. Chris

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Hard to say, but in my opinion, from experiences with the 28 cron and 21 SE in particular, the A7s is better. More importantly, I don't have to do a ton of color corrections to get the images to look right with the M lenses.
    Thank you, that is a sign of good news.

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    Re: A7s!

    With all this talk of downsizing/downrezzing does anybody have info on best methods to use when downsizing 36 MP picture to 12 MP?

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