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Thread: A7s!

  1. #351
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    Re: A7s!

    This week-end, I will put high ISO to the test....we'll see where it takes me...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: A7s!

    A7s High ISO monochrome
    Sony A7s High ISO Test by pasuay at gmail dot com, on Flickr
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    Re: A7s!

    Ashwin, that's a wonderful image of child with dog. Beautiful smile, beautiful light!
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    Re: A7s!

    I shouldn't look at this thread. The A7S is the only A7 series camera I want. I might need to borrow Guy's helmet.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Here is a question directed to all the pro wedding photographers out there. Is 12mp enough for printing large wedding photos?
    Yes.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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    Re: A7s!

    A7s High ISO 12800



    Last edited by pasuay; 11th July 2014 at 23:35.
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Sorry, I must be going dyslexic. I forgot to type "look" But yes, I mean that the iso 12800 results from the A7S look like the results I get with iso 6400 with the A7 in low light.

    I would really love seeing a direct comparison between A7S photos vs downsized A7 photos. Itīs the difference between me spending us$1200 or us$2500 on second camera for the A7 I already own!

    Here are some samples from my A7 and a Canon FD 50mm 1.4. I had high hopes to have much cleaner iso 6400 with the A7S in similar conditions...and much better iso 12800 (which for me is useless for professional work with the A7).





    absolutely wonderful pictures regardles of iso
    Ricoh GR is my main and only camera right now, but there is a high risk of the A7S would supply to be the second camera
    thorkil
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    Re: A7s!

    Many thanks, Thorkil

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    Re: A7s!

    I don't mean to thread jack....but I ended up trading some equipment I had no use for for a brand new sealed A99...yes, old technology, but there's still a lot of life to it and it will allow me to interchange lenses with the A7 + La-EA4.
    www.rafael-lopes.com
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    Re: A7s!

    I know this thread is "useless without photos" but a few thoughts after 24hrs with the 7s.

    As a regular ole A7 owner I was a little concerned about the resolution drop and can imagine how A7r owners may feel. For my purposes, there was nothing to be worried about. Viewing at 100% on MB Pro Retina, the A7s produces a gorgeous file with nice perceptual sharpness. Color is even nicer than the A7 - just a bit warmer and appears to respond to edits with less fuss (and I thought the A7 files were a dream).

    The EVF is nicer, showing less moire shimmer on the standard quality setting. This is actually a bit of a negative for me since I use that shimmer for MF in lieu of peaking. EVF performance in hyper low light is astounding.

    The camera really does see in the dark in terms of AF performance - much better than the A7 although the A7 PDAF sensors make it a fraction quicker in good light. Think of it this way, the A7s is always going to use Contrast Detection raking, front to back, but it does it very quickly. When the A7 uses PDAF it jumps right to focus so you shave a fraction of a second. Can't really comment on the comparison between 7s and 7r but my guess is that it is a hair faster.

    The silent shutter is unnerving but for the right subjects is a game changer.

    The construction looks to be the same as the A7r with full magnesium jacket and metal dials.

    For those of you with the battery grip, the camera powers on quicker on first start-up than the A7. Maybe twice as fast.

    After much testing, thinking and agonizing, I believe it is time to sell the A900. I was only holding on to it for steady shot with the 135mm and 200mm but I think the added sensitivity of the A7s will compensate when using the LAEA-4. The Minolta 20/2.8 worked great on the A7 but it is even better on the 7s. Based on Huff's comments about success with the Heliar 15mm, this might just be the FF compact for wides.

    For the first time I can definitely see the end of A-mount (for me) if Sony gets their act together and builds a viable lens lineup for FE. Give me a Zeiss 135/2 with OSS and I can die happy.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Sorry, I must be going dyslexic. I forgot to type "look" But yes, I mean that the iso 12800 results from the A7S look like the results I get with iso 6400 with the A7 in low light.

    Rawfa, I think you will definitely see some noise improvement but the bigger issue if you are using native AF lenses is the AF speed in the dark. The A7s is a beast in this regard.

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    Re: A7s!

    Just a loop around my house taking some sample shots - I actually did a shot for shot with the A7 but these are just the s files. You can click on the Flickr link to see full resolution - All 12 mp!

    First two with M-Rokkor 40/2, rest with Zeiss 55/1.8

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/chadwa...7645642132271/











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    Re: A7s!

    Chad, I am really digging the look of the Rokkor files...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Chad, I am really digging the look of the Rokkor files...
    Thanks Ashwin.

    I've been singing the M-Rokkor praises since the A7 was launched. Bang for the buck, I don't think they can be beat. Great combination of sharpness, tiny dimensions and a nice bit of character.

    I actually found an M-Rokkor 28mm without spots for a great price but it has some issues with infinity at wider apertures that I'm trying to get worked out.

    Here are a couple with that 28mm on the A7:



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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    Thanks Ashwin.

    I've been singing the M-Rokkor praises since the A7 was launched. Bang for the buck, I don't think they can be beat. Great combination of sharpness, tiny dimensions and a nice bit of character.

    I actually found an M-Rokkor 28mm without spots for a great price but it has some issues with infinity at wider apertures that I'm trying to get worked out.

    Here are a couple with that 28mm on the A7:



    Wow, lovely. Much of this is you, though, as everything you shoot looks great
    ...Pair that 28 and 40 with the 90 f/4 M-Rokkor, and what a set...I once owned the 90 M elmar (same lens), and it was lovely as well....I could see a fantastic 3 lens kit there for a great price...keep singing the praises, my friend...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: A7s!

    A question on my mind is how the camera operates with extreme long exposures.

    Say you stack up filters to -18 stops or more. Anyone around here would like to try? I do not know whether the camera has a darkframe mode, but I think it would be interesting to see how it performs without darkframe at base ISO and exposure times above 10 minutes.

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    Re: A7s!

    Please excuse a Sony A newbie question here; am I correct in saying the Sony FE 55/1.8 lens fits this camera natively, but the Sony Zeiss ZA 50/1.4S needs an adapter?

    I have an Oly 40/2 that I would love to try on the A7s, I must say; the video and the silent shutter sound fabulous to me.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Please excuse a Sony A newbie question here; am I correct in saying the Sony FE 55/1.8 lens fits this camera natively, but the Sony Zeiss ZA 50/1.4S needs an adapter?

    I have an Oly 40/2 that I would love to try on the A7s, I must say; the video and the silent shutter sound fabulous to me.
    That is correct. The 55mm fits the A7S natively. The 50mm 1.4 needs an adapter.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Wow, lovely. Much of this is you, though, as everything you shoot looks great
    ...Pair that 28 and 40 with the 90 f/4 M-Rokkor, and what a set...I once owned the 90 M elmar (same lens), and it was lovely as well....I could see a fantastic 3 lens kit there for a great price...keep singing the praises, my friend...
    Thanks again Ashwin. We are in the mutual admiration club.

    I cheated on the 90mm and am using the Contax G 90/2.8 to round out my three lens kit. I actually had the 90/4 a few years ago that I used on a NEX but sold it (boy was it sharp tho). The Contax is another huge bang for the buck lens so I think I'm ok.

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    Re: A7s!

    Thanks Rawfa. The 55 is a little long for me (or a little short, depending on how you look at it!). But I have only seen growing reports of it.

    I am teaching on the US later this year, and most likely will pick up an A7s then. Thanks.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Thanks Rawfa. The 55 is a little long for me (or a little short, depending on how you look at it!)....
    Kind of feel the same - 50 is as long as I like to go for a normal (and prefer a 40) but this lens is so superb that you make the accommodation and are usually rewarded for it.
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    Re: A7s!

    @ SP: the 20/1.7 lives on both the EM-5 and the G6...; yes, 40mm EFOV is definitely my favourite (hence the Oly 40/2, sitting here looking at me).

    I think the Oly 40 and the Sony FE 55/1.8 for when AF is needed is a decent difference in FL, I feel. Cheers, kl
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    @ SP: the 20/1.7 lives on both the EM-5 and the G6...; yes, 40mm EFOV is definitely my favourite (hence the Oly 40/2, sitting here looking at me).

    I think the Oly 40 and the Sony FE 55/1.8 for when AF is needed is a decent difference in FL, I feel. Cheers, kl
    Yup... Exact difference between 35 and 50 and there are a lot of fans of the 55mm focal length now. I will say though if you abhor the focal length the rendering, no matter how good it is, will not change that. I have that problem with 28mm lenses myself as I'm more of a 24 (and really as of the last couple years a 21 guy.)

    Regarding the 55FE. I too thought that it would be a bit too long for me before I bought it but I found that I really like it. It's probably my favorite lens in the 50-ish range right now to include my Leica M and Zeiss ZM lenses. It give a little extra separation from the 35 and a bit better spacing in focal length as a kit before jumping to that 70-100 short telephoto range.

    I've found myself using the 55 paired with a 85, 90, 100, or even 135 for a 2 lens "everything" kit. It's all depending on if I need the speed of a f/1.4 lens or reach of a medium telephoto.
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    Re: A7s!

    Same here. 40mm all the way. Itīs not as wide as 35mm and not as long as 50mm...it just hits the spot I would love if Sony released a 40mm pancake like Canon (maybe an f2.0 instead).

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Wow, lovely. Much of this is you, though, as everything you shoot looks great
    ...Pair that 28 and 40 with the 90 f/4 M-Rokkor, and what a set...I once owned the 90 M elmar (same lens), and it was lovely as well....I could see a fantastic 3 lens kit there for a great price...keep singing the praises, my friend...
    Those 28mm shots look lovely.

    M-Rokkor 40/2 II, M-Rokkor 90/4 here; wonderful lenses and they work well on the A7. A lightweight travel it...

    I haven't seen a 28 that wasn't damaged or too expensive lately. I tried the Ultron 28/2 on the A7 and wasn't terribly impressed. I haven't tried the Color Skopar 28/3.5 yet. Most of the time I've been using the Elmarit-R 24/2.8 and that works beautifully. (Actually, the only use my M-mount adapter has gotten on the A7 for several weeks now is to mount my M-mount Skink Pinhole... ;-)

    G
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I haven't seen a 28 that wasn't damaged or too expensive lately.... ;-)

    G
    Yes, I'm committed to making this M-Rokkor 28mm perfect. Not a spot in sight, and very sharp but when first I got it, it couldn't focus past 6-8 feet. Sent to DAG and I thought it was fixed to infinity but I'm noticing it is just working at 5.6 and higher.

    I'm not crazy right, this lens should focus to infinity wide open?

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    Re: A7s!

    Rawfa wrote:
    40mm all the way. Itīs not as wide as 35mm and not as long as 50mm...it just hits the spot
    I know in my head that my resistance to 35mm (the great X100, for example, or the RX1) is not "real" (just a bit wider than 40, right?) but the fact is for me that 35 IS too wide, somehow, and 50 too tight for all-around use. God knows I've owned enough of all of them to say that.

    So when I came across a pristine Oly 40/2 I jumped on it, even though it's pretty useless on the ĩ4/3rds cameras. The Panny 20/1.7 is a little dream lens for me; I do have all the other Oly primes (except the 75), and for video we use the 28, 35, 40, and 90 EFOV lenses literally daily. They all work just fine.

    But if it's one lens and out the door, it's always the 20. I've ramble on long enough about this; I must get an M-Rokkor 40, too, just to compare.

    Does anyone know the MFD of the M-Rokkor 40/2?

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    Re: A7s!

    Alright, the 7s is going to get a low light workout tomorrow. Photographing Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Only two songs from the side of the pit but that's at least 6 minutes of lowish light shooting
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    Re: A7s!

    A7s ISO 40000! on flickr

    A7s ISO 12800 on flickr
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    Re: A7s!

    Blown away by the performance of the 7s / 55mm tonight at the concert. AF was quick, accurate and could see in the dark. 6400 ISO looks like 800 ISO while retaining the detail of a 200 ISO image from most other cameras.

    Now I am going to be in a heightened state of anxiety until Sony releases more native fast (ish) primes for this system. I might have to breakdown and buy the 35/2.8 as a stop gap.
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    Re: A7s!

    Sony A7s High ISO Monochrome
    Sony A7s High ISO Monochrome by pasuay at gmail dot com, on Flickr
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    Re: A7s!

    A7s ISO 16000 color
    Sony A7s High ISO Color by pasuay at gmail dot com, on Flickr
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    Re: A7s!

    Awesome display of low light performance. This camera would kill at weddings and concerts. I'll eventually get this camera when the price drops, but at the moment I keep thinking if the A99II will follow a similar route....since it's the top of the line for Sony I would think 12mp could be a risky move, but you never know. I would also bet that it will do in camera 4K, it will have an advanced in body image stabilization and ultra fast AF.

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    I might have to breakdown and buy the 35/2.8 as a stop gap.
    whoops, I broke down...

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    Re: A7s!

    Received my A7S yesterday. Compliments my A7R for which I tested, then sold 3 Leica digital M bodies and 3 M lenses.

    Quick summary of my findings so far.

    Used to the A7R (have Zeiss 35 and 55 - desperately waiting for an 85 or 135 to be released) so the addition was an easy move 'fingers'-wise. Although trying to match the settings to my quite customised A7R you need to watch out for the slightly different menu structure. There are additional options for better video of course but also things like the custom button set up are listed in a different order, which seems strange. I'd like a bit more uniformity from Sony here.

    IQ is outstanding. I've done ISO sweeps up and down the range to find my comfort limit and have settled on 25600 as my max. A very small amount of work in LR can have this file looking superb. My A7R is limited to 6400, at the point ISO starts flashing in the viewfinder (I shoot auto ISO, Manual shutter, Manual aperture - which is why the Leica forum hated me!) I switch to the A7S.

    Silent shooting is insane. I've turned all beeps etc off and enabled silent shooting and people literally have no idea if I'm even shooting or just framing / playing with the menu's. If subjects *know* I'm shooting them it's very off putting as they are expecting a release noise, and it ruins the interaction between me and the subject due to it's absence, I have silent off for this.

    The small MP count is not an issue for me. It's still very "big" 1:1 on my 27" iMac and the quality is there. It's a very clean file, not like the "bitty" A7R file. I have always loved the image quality I got from the Canon 300D and the plastic 50 f/1.8. This feeling is back now with the A7S, must be a size of pixel thing.

    So I now have a fantastic compliment AND back up to the A7R for travel. Each can do what the other does well enough should one go down or get stollen. But when they need to "do their thing" they are both in a class of their own in my opinion. Dawn to dusk the A7R is giving me outstanding resolution, DR and clarity, switching out in the hotel room before going out again after dusk and the A7S is just rocking the night light and dim interiors.

    I'm one lens away from being totally complete.

    I've got head shots on my drive from the last 4 days of shooting Phase One IQ250 with Peter Hurley in a studio. Together with test ambient head shots from the A7S - once I've unpacked (we're renovating) I intend to print them on the Epson and see just where the differences lie in the real deal.
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    Re: A7s!

    Is anyone using the A7S with the LA-EA4? I was wondering how does this combo fare in low light....

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    Re: A7s!

    Hey, this last post was my 2k post! Aren't I supposed to become an ultra mega supercalifragilisticexpialidocious senior member?
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by dwbell View Post
    (I shoot auto ISO, Manual shutter, Manual aperture - which is why the Leica forum hated me!)
    Not this bit of the Leica forum - I fought tooth and nail to get auto ISO to work in manual mode with the M - now it does, that's how I like to shoot too.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwbell View Post
    Silent shooting is insane. I've turned all beeps etc off and enabled silent shooting and people literally have no idea if I'm even shooting or just framing / playing with the menu's. If subjects *know* I'm shooting them it's very off putting as they are expecting a release noise, and it ruins the interaction between me and the subject due to it's absence, I have silent off for this.
    I keep teetering on the brink of this camera - and your post makes it worse. I couldn't be doing with the clatter of the shutter on the A7r, but I can't quite bring myself to opt for 12mp. What I'd really like is this camera with slightly worse ISO and 24mp . . . then my FE lenses would be out of retirement!

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    Re: A7s!

    Has anyone got any thoughts on the advantages of the 12mp sensor over a down res'd 24 or 36mp file? I can see the other advantages, silent shutter for one but when looking at image quality, are there any real improvements over the A or the R?

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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Not this bit of the Leica forum - I fought tooth and nail to get auto ISO to work in manual mode with the M - now it does, that's how I like to shoot too.

    I keep teetering on the brink of this camera - and your post makes it worse. I couldn't be doing with the clatter of the shutter on the A7r, but I can't quite bring myself to opt for 12mp. What I'd really like is this camera with slightly worse ISO and 24mp . . . then my FE lenses would be out of retirement!
    Yeah, I just never fit in with the Leica crowd at all. Did the "New firmware coming" actually happen then? Good for them. I got bored waiting and being fed nothing in the meantime other than self righteous beta tester apologist rhetoric. But again, not you Jono.

    I have a 4.5m X 2.5m backlit print on the wall at the office. It was shot on a 5D MkII and you cannot view it from closer than about 5m. It looks awesome! I need to print the A7S files at my various sizes (I top out at around A2 normal) and see how it looks in the flesh. Luckily I don't have paying clients who demand for whatever reason any specific resolution. So my requirements differ from many.

    Table-top tripod, screen off, smile/face detect on medium, 35mm lens at ear height, then just talk to them about life and love. Is it "photography"? Not to some people, but the subject forgets we're shooting and the images are pure gold emotion and the viewer has no clue how it was achieved, nor do they ever care in my experience - other than in that other certain forum..... ;-)

    All the best to you Jono.
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  41. #391
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I keep teetering on the brink of this camera -
    Been wondering when you'd show up! I'm in the same boat. I'd like more MPs but if, and it's still a big if, this sensor plays nice with my ZM25 and VM 15, then it could prove tough to resist. (Always assuming Photokina doesn't throw any surprises into the mix).
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Has anyone got any thoughts on the advantages of the 12mp sensor over a down res'd 24 or 36mp file? I can see the other advantages, silent shutter for one but when looking at image quality, are there any real improvements over the A or the R?
    It's something I would be interested in seeing, but renovations at home mean it's not practical right now. However, much like the famed shoot base ISO and push in post ideology, or even to some extent shoot way to the right and pull in post, it's just not something I'm comfortable exercising in the field. I don't know why, but shooting >6400 on the A7R knowing it looks like crap and then downsizing in post and noise removing just seems too much for me, when compared to shooting a better low light body. I feel the same about 2x2 stitched mega rez images, I could shoot a grid of them on my iPhone and work them in post to an impressive final MP shot, but I'd rather rent a MF back and the right lens. Same goes for using one studio head, doing one shot key, one fill, one hair, one background and blending in screen mode in post and so on. All technically possible but I just can't practically bring myself to "do it".
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  43. #393
    Senior Member Show Performance's Avatar
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  44. #394
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Has anyone got any thoughts on the advantages of the 12mp sensor over a down res'd 24 or 36mp file? I can see the other advantages, silent shutter for one but when looking at image quality, are there any real improvements over the A or the R?
    The biggest advantage for my work is the AF speed in low light. It is just automatic - deadly accurate and no fuss.

  45. #395
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    Re: A7s!

    Took the A7s out today to my son's LAX tournament just for kicks. Really didn't think it would replace the 24mp A7 since I occasionally crop on these type of action shots.

    A few observations:

    1. AF with the LAEA-4 and Minolta High Speed APO 200mm/2.8 in CAF appeared to be more accurate on the 7s than on the 7. Tons of keepers.

    2. Images appear sharper than similar shots taken on the A7

    3. CA is much improved when shooting wide open on the 7s, compared to the 7. It really is minimal and restricted to a reddish CA as opposed to the blue /magentas that were predominant on the A7. Today's shoot was extremely bright and extremely high contrast - very pleased with the result.

    Here is one example. I did not bother correcting the minor red CA on the defenders stick head.


    Last edited by Show Performance; 26th July 2014 at 19:13.
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  46. #396
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    Re: A7s!

    Zeiss FE 35mm @ 2.8

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  47. #397
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    Re: A7s!

    Chad: I love the Nick Cave set; very nice. And I really like the processing of the image of the girl—care to share a rough insight into the way you approach this?
    Kit Laughlin, www.StretchTherapy.net/, www.KitLaughlin.com/bodypress/
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  48. #398
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    Re: A7s!

    Agreed with Kit, Chad. Fantastic work!!!
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: A7s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    Zeiss FE 35mm @ 2.8

    What an absolutely beautiful picture!

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    Re: A7s!

    Thanks all.

    Kit - as a "rough" overview, I use VSCO as a base for my edits but have built an extensive library of custom presets off of the VSCO product. I'll usually work up a preset and then save it as a lens and camera combination description so I can quickly go back and see what filters work best for the combo I am using.

    Some of my filters are tailored for a natural look, some like this one, for a more dramatic render.

    I'm definitely not an OOC guy

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