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Thread: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

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    A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    I shot these identical. So here is the process the A7r shot with the ZA 24mm F2 lens at F8 BUT IN CROP MODE. Than switched bodies with the A6000 shot it identical. Now i processed them both exactly the same in ACR since thats all I can use with the A6000. I gave them both equal shadow recovery and highlights. Im processing for the best image but I did everything the same. Now I figured out the dang sharpening in this program. I also found the secret don't use detail over 10 or either files gets bad artifacts. So sharpening at 100 radius at .7 detail at 10 and clarity at 8. Now they look nice and sharp but IMHO its a perfect combination of drawing the most out of the file without going overboard which a lot of people do. Maybe not so much here but i do see a lot of over sharpened images on the web, people get crazy. I want to get just above slightly soft but with detail. Im a little anal on sharpening and never take it too far. Anyway if you look at both these files I can't tell the dang difference. Now obviously I am in crop mode and would not normally do that with a A7r but what I was after is how good is this A6000 and no crop mode with 24mpx which for me is a big interest since I am trying to get longer on some lenses.

    Anyway too long a paragraph there sorry . But I shot a bunch of these and Im pretty dang impressed with the A6000. BTW I did test my 24mm F2 since I just bought it used and its a good copy in my mind at 5.6 the corners look very good at F2.8 the center is a razor and stopping down anymore does nothing more. Boarders look very good at 5.6 as well and I am not going to bore you with showing all that in images just trust me the ZA 24mm can produce at F8 no one would every complain about the corners even to the picky pixel peeper that I am it would make stunning images. It may even be slightly better than my Zeiss 25mm F2. Ill take that anyday of the week

    Okay to the two images . If you can guess them apart immediately than good on you. Its tough



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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    To me this makes the A6000 a extremely good backup to the power of the A7r. Its also a great travel cam and even on a Pro level for me i can use it on gigs. For 650 dollars I am extremely impressed by that alone.
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Okay this time no adjustments to exposure , shadows or highlights or WB just the same sharpening method as above.



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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Wow not even a guess. Geez come on funsters
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Wow not even a guess. Geez come on funsters
    1st one is A7r in both sets.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Ok, why do you want them to be different? And how much difference you want to see doing this test? even if that A6000 is way better than A7R in crop mode i will not buy it, i am waiting to get A77-II, that will be my main purchase over A6000, and as i say always, i am not rich enough to buy many cameras to test even some are cheap, i can buy A6000 because it is cheap but i will not use it over A7r and sooner or later i will buy A77 version 2, then i will never find someone to buy A6000 locally.

    Sometimes i come here and most what i see is more tests and tests and tests, it became like members care about technical things more than the photos themselves, i want to see more beautiful stunning fantastic photos, but most of what i see is comparisons and tests shots.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Wow Tareg sorry to bother you with the comparison but let me be very clear as a working Pro. I need to know EXACTLY what to expect from anything I put in my hands. I will have all three bodies the A7r, A77II and the A6000 as they all serve a very different need but I also no matter what want a matched set of files as I can mix and match cameras with my files looking very similar given to the same job and client. This is far more important than you might think. If I deliver 600 images to a client I certainly don't want 200 of them looking radically different from the rest. That's a failure.

    Now this was not meant to make a choice of buying one over the other, what ever gave you that idea in the first place. I want to add the A6000 to my workflow but I need to see how it compares to the A7r and I clearly said right out of the gate, I would not be shooting the A7r in crop mode anyway. But to test the A6000 I want to know how close it can get to the A7r if its ****, it will never make it in my bag. It's that simple, nothing goes in my bag unproven and more important untested. You don't like tests than turn the dial, it's that simple . But this is valuable information to a lot of people.

    Now you want to see more artistic shots than the fun threads are good for that. But let me be even more clearer I don't need to sit here post images to prove how good I am. I'm a damn good photographer I already know that and get paid dearly for it. I need to prove nothing or show nothing. I'm here because I want to give back my 40 years of experience, you don't want to learn from me fine , turn the dial but I have taught many photographers here how to be better and they appreciate the tests that folks do and take the time without pay to actually do these and post these.

    Sound snotty well your damn right. I do this for me but share with the community and frankly maybe I will never do it again either. Many people contribute here to share with others.

    Now what did this test tell me. Btw the 1st in each series is the A6000. But I can tell immediately which I will need to correct for in post is the A6000 has about -8 points of desaturation and is slightly cooler in temp. To me that's important to know other than that it's very close in file and I can add this into my system without worry. Need to remember as a working Pro failure is not a option or I don't feed my family. It can't get anymore basic than that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    ^^^ Ok, now it is very clear and understandable, i met one pro and he was saying the same, care about his gear and deliver the high quality and get paid, so i am sorry if my post was so harsh and offensive, i didn't know that you are pro and get paid for testing your gear, and sure if you are getting paid then i will do the same and buy more gear to have the best knowledge about what i have or need to do my work.

    Well, maybe i am little annoying in my post, but really i didn't see much of that high quality artistic works from those pro including you, either you don't show your top best or maybe my standard about the quality is different here, but at least if someone is pro and have the great gear and high photography skill then i should see that in his works, but anyway, as you said, if i see it didn't show here then i just turn the dial.

    I like to have an idea about technical things but it is too much here and it is going under many many pages, i spend maybe whole day just to read one page, so many times i am thinking why they wasting time in pages posting about technical details more than they are out shooting, but now just knowing you do this professionally and to help others looking for it i will not comment again, i apologize and i hope you don't mind i stay here reading and posting when i can regardless of that i am not a high technical gear person.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    I see the menu board on the B shot of the 2nd set better than shot A.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay to the two images . If you can guess them apart immediately than good on you. Its tough
    Looking at shadows, my guess would have been
    1. A6000
    2. A7R

    which appears to be true, because when I answered, the file names could be seen. LOL

    Thanks for doing that Guy, for the money the A6000 goes, this seems to be a very very good camera in deed!

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Is the A6000 also lacking an AA filter of any strength?

    I'll go..
    1. A7r
    2. A6000
    my reasons are I see a tad more detail in the carpark in the first set and a bit more in the hill top left of the second set. I kinda reminds me of A7r
    While there isn't much in it I prefer the look of #1 slightly. I hope my guess was wrong.

    I think this is a fun thread.
    The A6000 has probably been overlooked a lot due to the A7 range.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Great comparison Guy. I honestly can't say which image is which, but I can say the A6000 is very impressive.

    I think what astonishes me is the dynamic range these sensors have. Blue skies are very vibrant and shadow detail is very discernible - and it's a "cave effect" (looking into a dark area).

    I've found with these two cameras at low ISO it is hard to see a difference. However, at high ISO you'll see higher quality from the A7R.

    In this little test, I did a comparison of the A6000 and the A7R with high ISO, 100% crops. Just scroll down to the indoor shots ISO 16000 and ISO8000. Sony A6000 » Before The Coffee
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    Looking at shadows, my guess would have been
    1. A6000
    2. A7R

    which appears to be true, because when I answered, the file names could be seen. LOL

    Thanks for doing that Guy, for the money the A6000 goes, this seems to be a very very good camera in deed!
    Hey that's cheating. LOL but your correct the A6000 is the first image in both series.

    The first series I did adjust shadows, highlights. So it's more equal between them

    The second series I did not make those same adjustments. My take away the A7r handles the highlights a little better which seems to be more DR. That makes sense since it's coming from a full frame sensors. The A7r has more color saturation as well, again its a DR and pixel density advantage. Also seems a touch warmer in color temp as well.

    All stuff that can be adjusted. My surprise here is just how close the A6000 is which very good indeed and the A77II should look the same since from what I understand its using the A6000 sensor. Now I did not test for noise here but sharpness wise it's very good, so no loss using the same lens on either if your shooting the A7r in crop mode which I have shot the A7 in crop mode to get more reach. That gets solved now with the APS sensor in both the A6000 and A77II.

    What does impress me here is the APS sensor does perform better than expected. That's a good thing as this little cam can serve as a great backup, a second shooting cam in the field shooting two bodies. Plus as a single travel cam it can hold its own.

    Love these options of use for it. So if you want to get really small than the A6000 outweighs its price tag IMHO.

    I have some more samples I can post later
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    ^^^ Ok, now it is very clear and understandable, i met one pro and he was saying the same, care about his gear and deliver the high quality and get paid, so i am sorry if my post was so harsh and offensive, i didn't know that you are pro and get paid for testing your gear, and sure if you are getting paid then i will do the same and buy more gear to have the best knowledge about what i have or need to do my work.

    Well, maybe i am little annoying in my post, but really i didn't see much of that high quality artistic works from those pro including you, either you don't show your top best or maybe my standard about the quality is different here, but at least if someone is pro and have the great gear and high photography skill then i should see that in his works, but anyway, as you said, if i see it didn't show here then i just turn the dial.

    I like to have an idea about technical things but it is too much here and it is going under many many pages, i spend maybe whole day just to read one page, so many times i am thinking why they wasting time in pages posting about technical details more than they are out shooting, but now just knowing you do this professionally and to help others looking for it i will not comment again, i apologize and i hope you don't mind i stay here reading and posting when i can regardless of that i am not a high technical gear person.
    You misunderstood . I do not get paid to test my gear. Its a prerequisite for me to test everything before I go on a real job and shoot for clients. I'm only posting tests for others to benefit from that what I have learned.

    What I learned from this is to make some adjustments in the A6000 to match a little better to my main workhorse the A7r

    Anytime there is a new piece of gear that hits the market many folks will test there gear to see what they are getting that's very normal in all forums.

    Now posting real work than most Pros do not post client images on forums. I do very rarely for several reasons which I don't want to get to far off topic. But many of my clients work in corporate industries that are defense contractors, aerospace builders and stuff like that which cause liability issues for photographers plus people shots without releases and things of this nature. Usually there websites are good sources of what a photographers work looks like as those images are usually safe to post or released to use for promoting themselves only. I have such clients where I can't post what I shoot on a public forum. When I teach workshops those images of landscape work I can post as they are my personal work. Client work simply causes a liability issue in too many cases and most avoid it all together. I know I do
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by ferrellmc View Post
    Great comparison Guy. I honestly can't say which image is which, but I can say the A6000 is very impressive.

    I think what astonishes me is the dynamic range these sensors have. Blue skies are very vibrant and shadow detail is very discernible - and it's a "cave effect" (looking into a dark area).

    I've found with these two cameras at low ISO it is hard to see a difference. However, at high ISO you'll see higher quality from the A7R.

    In this little test, I did a comparison of the A6000 and the A7R with high ISO, 100% crops. Just scroll down to the indoor shots ISO 16000 and ISO8000. Sony A6000 » Before The Coffee
    Totally agree in a noise test with higher ISO the full frames will win out and I also agree with you on just how close they are. Sure some adjustments are needed but this maybe the best I have seen a APS sensor do in this type of comparison . I find that encouraging
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Guy

    A question, just because I have no idea of the answer, if you are using the A7r in crop mode, aren't you forcing it to be basically an aps sized sensor? In which case, why would there be a difference between a crop A7r and the A6000, you've effectively made them the same? Wouldn't the test be better to upres the A6000 file to match the A7r? That way you'd see what the differences are when wanting to match files, basically as you're not using the A7r in crop mode. I'm guessing the advantage of the A6000 is the af speed or reliability otherwise there's no point having it, just use the A7r in crop mode. Matching the A6000 file to a reduced A7r file just doesn't seem to make much sense to me, especially if you aren't planning on using the A7r in crop mode.

    It's quite possible that I just don't get it!

    Mat

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Guy

    A question, just because I have no idea of the answer, if you are using the A7r in crop mode, aren't you forcing it to be basically an aps sized sensor? In which case, why would there be a difference between a crop A7r and the A6000, you've effectively made them the same? Wouldn't the test be better to upres the A6000 file to match the A7r? That way you'd see what the differences are when wanting to match files, basically as you're not using the A7r in crop mode. I'm guessing the advantage of the A6000 is the af speed or reliability otherwise there's no point having it, just use the A7r in crop mode. Matching the A6000 file to a reduced A7r file just doesn't seem to make much sense to me, especially if you aren't planning on using the A7r in crop mode.

    It's quite possible that I just don't get it!

    Mat
    That was my main point when i asked why he wanted both to be same or how much difference he would see, why i buy A6000 if the crop mode from A7r is almost same or identical or maybe better than A6000 shot itself.

    In fact, the only thing i care about A6000 over A7r is more fps and maybe faster AF, so that i am waiting A77II, i was hoping if Guy did shoot with A7r at full frame mode and then crop the shot to be equivalent to A6000 24mp resolution and then see the result, he can use different lenses to make it more sense, for example using 100mm on A6000 and 150mm on A7r if that A6000 is about 1.5x crop factor, then crop that A7r shot to nearly equivalent A6000 FOV and then compare without considering the DR.

    Anyway, sure this test could be useful for those who can't afford A7r, or for those who want a camera backup to their A7 or A7r, i want to see the result from A7 full frame to A6000 shot as long both are 24mp.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Once good post work is done, especially if it includes heavy cropping and recovery at both ends, most cues are gone and in a small jpeg it's anyone's guess.

    And you are using the same sweet spot of the lens in both files. So: same lens 'crop area', but only 16Mp for the cropped a7r file against 24mp for the a6000. The a7r is a far superior camera but not when you reduce its file size so drastically. I thought it did well here.

    The a6000 is very good indeed - about halfway between the a7r and the a77 (with SLT).

    There are as many sharpening formulas out there as there are photographers ;-) They all think they do it the right way! FWIW, Adobe's starting point is a very safe 25/1.0/25/0, because 90% of all photos are of people - very few people limit detail to that low a figure of 10. Guy, you are only really doing the large edges. The landscape guys go crazy with ultra high Detail and Radius of 0.5 for greenery and distant objects but use quite a lot of masking for skies etc. It maybe works best to balance Amount and Detail against each other with an Alt key check of smooth areas, then add masking. Most start Amount at 40-60 and work from there - it's also very content dependent, and your preferences, and output needs.

    FWIW, the technical info behind 'Detail' is that low Detail is USM but protected against halos; and high Detail is Deconvolution.

    Finally, a lot is happening that we don't know about. Jeff Schewe of Adobe had this to say recently:

    "Although the answer is indeed yes, these are default capture sharpening settings, it's actually a bit more complicated...

    ACR/LR does do a level of normalized default sharpening and color noise reduction but these are not hard specific numbers, they are normalized for the camera and ISO settings...the engineers try to arrive at a useful starting point but that starting point will vary by camera model and sensor. By default there is no luminance noise reduction–even though a small amount of luminance noise reduction should prolly be applied."

    Sony's sensors are getting better in leaps and bounds, and it's good Adobe leave that very nice lum noise alone! I only knock out a little, say 10 between ISO 400-1600, and 30-40 at ISO 6400. Thanks for posting.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Ok, it actually makes even less sense to me now, the A7r in crop mode is a 1.5 crop at 15mp and the A6000 is 1.5 crop at 24mp, the A6000 should be doing better in this case, as philip points out above, the A7r is actually doing well in this test.

    I'm not sure what the point is.

    Mat

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    An a7 and a nex body is the perfect travel one two punch.
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Guy

    A question, just because I have no idea of the answer, if you are using the A7r in crop mode, aren't you forcing it to be basically an aps sized sensor? In which case, why would there be a difference between a crop A7r and the A6000, you've effectively made them the same? Wouldn't the test be better to upres the A6000 file to match the A7r? That way you'd see what the differences are when wanting to match files, basically as you're not using the A7r in crop mode. I'm guessing the advantage of the A6000 is the af speed or reliability otherwise there's no point having it, just use the A7r in crop mode. Matching the A6000 file to a reduced A7r file just doesn't seem to make much sense to me, especially if you aren't planning on using the A7r in crop mode.

    It's quite possible that I just don't get it!

    Mat
    Great question . Maybe the only reason since really nothing changes in the A7r file except size it's just a easier comparison to see what the A6000 is doing given the exact same framing. Not really should I use one over the other but just more clear to see the A6000 given the same crop. Now agree with you why would I use crop mode on the A7r over the A6000 well I would not now since I do have the APS sensor. Before I had just the A7 and A7r and on one gig was forced to use crop mode. So the reason I bought the A6000 was I get a full 24mpx sensor instead of reduced A7 or A7r file size. Now I have the A6000 on board and a A77ii on the way than I won't have to use crop mode. In this test it's far easier to see and identify the differences since it's exactly the same framing and far easier to spot what I need to do to bring the A6000 into the fold of the A7r.

    Maybe I should have been more clear on that point why I did it this way but more for convenience and identifying things better. I think it helps others see just how good the A6000 is much better too since there is no effect on changing the A7r except the file size. If I was testing noise and some other things sure test would have been diffrent.

    For me also is getting a handling on the raw processing better too since I can match easier seeing the exact framing. So bottom line more a convenience and identity method more than this cam versus that cam. Those tests I hate doing
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    Once good post work is done, especially if it includes heavy cropping and recovery at both ends, most cues are gone and in a small jpeg it's anyone's guess.

    And you are using the same sweet spot of the lens in both files. So: same lens 'crop area', but only 16Mp for the cropped a7r file against 24mp for the a6000. The a7r is a far superior camera but not when you reduce its file size so drastically. I thought it did well here.

    The a6000 is very good indeed - about halfway between the a7r and the a77 (with SLT).

    There are as many sharpening formulas out there as there are photographers ;-) They all think they do it the right way! FWIW, Adobe's starting point is a very safe 25/1.0/25/0, because 90% of all photos are of people - very few people limit detail to that low a figure of 10. Guy, you are only really doing the large edges. The landscape guys go crazy with ultra high Detail and Radius of 0.5 for greenery and distant objects but use quite a lot of masking for skies etc. It maybe works best to balance Amount and Detail against each other with an Alt key check of smooth areas, then add masking. Most start Amount at 40-60 and work from there - it's also very content dependent, and your preferences, and output needs.

    FWIW, the technical info behind 'Detail' is that low Detail is USM but protected against halos; and high Detail is Deconvolution.

    Finally, a lot is happening that we don't know about. Jeff Schewe of Adobe had this to say recently:

    "Although the answer is indeed yes, these are default capture sharpening settings, it's actually a bit more complicated...

    ACR/LR does do a level of normalized default sharpening and color noise reduction but these are not hard specific numbers, they are normalized for the camera and ISO settings...the engineers try to arrive at a useful starting point but that starting point will vary by camera model and sensor. By default there is no luminance noise reduction–even though a small amount of luminance noise reduction should prolly be applied."

    Sony's sensors are getting better in leaps and bounds, and it's good Adobe leave that very nice lum noise alone! I only knock out a little, say 10 between ISO 400-1600, and 30-40 at ISO 6400. Thanks for posting.

    And this is my basic problem is I don't use ACR so I'm a little baffled by how certain functions work. C1 does not do behind the scenes adjustments raw is raw and you go from there. This is more my issue than anything else as I don't know what the hell they are doing and what things are applied. I'm just looking at stuff at 100 percent when processing but heck I could certainly be wrong since it's very rare I use this program. I'm far more efficient with C1 since that's all I been using for many yeas like maybe 10.

    Thanks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by ken_vs_ryu View Post
    An a7 and a nex body is the perfect travel one two punch.
    Exactly what I have been thinkng as well. Its a great backup, nice second body and a great travel cam. For me not the primary but I it's a nice second cam when shooting side by side. Another reason to match things up as well.

    But regardless I see some difference like DR , color and saturation that I need to adjust in the A6000 to match better. Until I get full C1 support for the A6000 and A77II. I'm just plugging along. I'll have a far better idea when that happens
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Test A77-II with Canon 70-200 f2.8 for us please, i want to know how good or fast the AF speed with non native lenses on A77-II, i don't think i am really wanting to go with Sony 70-200 lens, and hope my 300 2.8 can work fast on A77-II.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    Once good post work is done, especially if it includes heavy cropping and recovery at both ends, most cues are gone and in a small jpeg it's anyone's guess.

    And you are using the same sweet spot of the lens in both files. So: same lens 'crop area', but only 16Mp for the cropped a7r file against 24mp for the a6000. The a7r is a far superior camera but not when you reduce its file size so drastically. I thought it did well here.

    The a6000 is very good indeed - about halfway between the a7r and the a77 (with SLT).

    There are as many sharpening formulas out there as there are photographers ;-) They all think they do it the right way! FWIW, Adobe's starting point is a very safe 25/1.0/25/0, because 90% of all photos are of people - very few people limit detail to that low a figure of 10. Guy, you are only really doing the large edges. The landscape guys go crazy with ultra high Detail and Radius of 0.5 for greenery and distant objects but use quite a lot of masking for skies etc. It maybe works best to balance Amount and Detail against each other with an Alt key check of smooth areas, then add masking. Most start Amount at 40-60 and work from there - it's also very content dependent, and your preferences, and output needs.

    FWIW, the technical info behind 'Detail' is that low Detail is USM but protected against halos; and high Detail is Deconvolution.

    Finally, a lot is happening that we don't know about. Jeff Schewe of Adobe had this to say recently:

    "Although the answer is indeed yes, these are default capture sharpening settings, it's actually a bit more complicated...

    ACR/LR does do a level of normalized default sharpening and color noise reduction but these are not hard specific numbers, they are normalized for the camera and ISO settings...the engineers try to arrive at a useful starting point but that starting point will vary by camera model and sensor. By default there is no luminance noise reduction–even though a small amount of luminance noise reduction should prolly be applied."

    Sony's sensors are getting better in leaps and bounds, and it's good Adobe leave that very nice lum noise alone! I only knock out a little, say 10 between ISO 400-1600, and 30-40 at ISO 6400. Thanks for posting.
    Okay now i see what the detail is doing along with the masking.If you load up on detail the sky gets nasty artifacts and when you apply masking it knocks it back down. Its okay still seems like a lot of detail applied though. Ill play some more as I can see what your talking about now.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Test A77-II with Canon 70-200 f2.8 for us please, i want to know how good or fast the AF speed with non native lenses on A77-II, i don't think i am really wanting to go with Sony 70-200 lens, and hope my 300 2.8 can work fast on A77-II.
    I don't have any Canon glass at all. A77II i need to order here in a couple days. As far as the Sony 70-200 2.8 either the older model or newer they are very good lenses. The latest just has faster focusing from what I am told but same lens formula.

    As far as third party lens like canon on a Sony body with the Metabones III adapter there very slow to focus( probably hunt bad as well) and not anywhere near the speed of a Sony 70-200 2.8 Native on a A77II thats going to be like lightning fast. If you really need the focusing speed and fast AF on a Sony body than really your only choice will be Sony. If you have the A7 or A7r than the 70-200 F4 will be faster since your not using the Sony Adapter. On the A77II than you want the A glass and the 70-200 2.8

    Here really is the bottom line if your staying manual focus on these 7 series cams than almost any lens that works would be fine but as soon as you start wanting AF speed and accuracy than you need to think native glass and even with using the Sony 4 adapter it will not be as fast as the native glass to that mount. In this case talking the longer zooms the A series cams you want the 70-200 2.8 and the FE mont cams you want the new 70-200 F4 FE mount.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Just playing here with a A6000 shot intentionally with a glare on the highlights. This is pretty extreme between a overblown reflected in camera highlight and deep shadows. First image is as shot except I do have my sharpening included than second image is lets make it work correctly. Very malleable file to be able to handle this and this is pretty extreme DR going on here.



    Corrected

    [IMG][/IMG]
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Worked very well without going overboard and looking like a HDR files. Final result looks very normal
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Just to show how extreme the adjustments where
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    in your first post I prefer the color of the first image (which seems to be A6000). Cheers, Tom

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Ok thanks, i saw that Sony 70-200 f2.8, it is a big option, i can wait and see if this lens is really good quality and fast AF speed compared to Canon/Nikon competitors.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    sony 70-200 | B&H Photo Video

    First one is for the A7 FE series the F4
    Second one is for the A series A77II, A99 and this is the latest version. The older version you can pick up used for far cheaper.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    The newer 7A-mount 0-200/2.8 has nano coatings on the lens elements and improved weather sealing I'm told. It's also quite a bit pricier than the old model. The old model is great though. I had one up until about a week ago. It's just too heavy for the A7 bodies on a normal basis and the FE mount 70-200/4 looks pretty damn good.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    For me having the 135 1.8 my need for the 70-200 is not worth buying but I do rent them twice a year for 10 days each to do a big runway gig. I actually use 300mm effective so going APS with the A77II is ideal for me. Outside of that my 135 with effective 200mm on a APS sensor I'd perfect. I just did a big job like that with the A6000 and the 135 which worked great. End of day the A77ii will be the primary on those kind of gigs. Just need to sell a few items and I'm ordering it. Release date is June 10th. I have 3 gigs starting the 24th so would love to put that into action.

    Last Jan. I rented the 70-200 2.8 older version with the Sony 4 adapter on my A7 in crop mode. It did okay but I think the A77II APS will AF track far better and faster. Why I'm buying the A77II
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    And surprisingly it is even pricier than Canon/Nikon ones, so i am not sure it will be worthy to buy it for sports over my 1DX + Canon 2.8 L lenses, just the specifications of A77II is better and outperforms that of 1DX [24mp, APC-s, smaller and lighter, fps are almost the same and high ISO is not a big deal and A77-II is a new camera so maybe better technology than 1DX].
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    If i didn't hear about that A77-II i was a hair away from getting A6000, or maybe A77 I, but good i wasn't in rush, Sony A7r is my first ever Sony still camera or mirror-less and i have no regret, so the second camera i hope it will be a right/wise decision as well.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Yea it's a tough call. There saying the AF on the Sony with continuous tracking is outstanding and you get AF points out to the edges. I see that as a advantage. But yes the zoom is very pricey.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    If i didn't hear about that A77-II i was a hair away from getting A6000, or maybe A77 I, but good i wasn't in rush, Sony A7r is my first ever Sony still camera or mirror-less and i have no regret, so the second camera i hope it will be a right/wise decision as well.
    The A6000 with the new FE 70-200 F4 zoom is going to be very good at tracking but here is where it lacks. No vertical grip and its a slower lens in F4. I need 2.8 so big reason I am adding the A77Ii. I get a vertical grip and a fast 2.8 lens in the mix plus shooting thousands of images on the jobs it should hold up better.

    This here is a need issue as I'm pretty sure the A6000 with its fast AF would do well with its new zoom. But it maybe a little limiting for certain things so for me the A77II will be added. The A6000 will play a secondary roll and travel cam.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    This is another reason I'm checking out this A6000 sensor as it's supposedly the same on the A77II.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    And your posts are a good strong reason that i should pass/neglect A6000 and look directly to A77II, i am not like you and i don't want 2 cameras while i have already one, so this Sony will be either my main camera then 1DX is a backup or vise-versa, i don't see myself any point buying A6000 and then A77II, definitely i will use A77II extensively and i will never touch A6000, you are different level/league and i understand, but i have time to wait until that A77II will be released in markets and been tested as you do then i can have my final decision.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Totally agree with you. This always depends on needs and the A77II maybe a far better choice in your situation. After I get the A77II my needs for the A6000 will go down quite a bit for real work.

    What's fun here is a 650 dollar camera has some real meat to it.
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Totally agree with you. This always depends on needs and the A77II maybe a far better choice in your situation. After I get the A77II my needs for the A6000 will go down quite a bit for real work.

    What's fun here is a 650 dollar camera has some real meat to it.
    Yes, because it is cheap it is really a killer deal, but i am saving that 650 [to me it will be over 800 to buy A6000 online or locally] for something else better, say a lens for example, and i am trying to complete some items i want to buy before i travel to USA this summer, and A7r will be my main camera and i will leave my MF at home.

    I don't know how many lenses i will carry with me, i don't want to miss anything from landscapes to macro to portraits if possible, but definitely i will carry my trinity zoom lenses and TS lenses, then maybe 1 macro lens, whatever else is just bonus.

    If i know some people renting this A6000 i may give it a try, or i may buy A77-II from there that it will be way cheaper than my country and hopefully cheaper than online.
    Tareq

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    I just skipped all posts. Let me guess:
    The first one in the first two comparisons is the A7R.
    I can see 2 things: In the first one I see a tiny less amount of definition and bit more DR. so, it must the A7r.
    Eduardo

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Guy

    Thanks for sharing your testing results as well as your settings. I find it very useful to back up what I have been seeing in my images and to improve my PP.

    I am coming from a Canon background and was using the 5D III. I now have added the Sony A7r and A6000. The DR of the Sony sensors is amazing. While the A7r will be used for most of the landscape work, the A6000 is a great back up body and is a very nice size for a walk about camera. There will also be times when using the FE 70-200 on the A6000 will give more reach.

    Again, this thread has been educational.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    I think it tells a good story of what to expect and many folks will have the A6000 as the little walk around but nice to know you can quality reaching the A7r. Usually these types of 36mpx cams and P&S are so far apart it makes them hard to use in combination. For those that maybe don't need the A77II to backup there A7r than this is a nice option. I like options myself but I like things to match and these are pretty dang close
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Ok. I was wrong twice. But yes, somehow I like better the second images which corresponds to the A7r. Don't know why, but I do.

    BTW: My IR-converted A6000 and Rhinocam got home 2 hours ago.

    Eduardo

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    I do as well the A7r renders about 200-300 kelvin warmer which most folks like.
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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Ok. I was wrong twice. But yes, somehow I like better the second images which corresponds to the A7r. Don't know why, but I do.

    BTW: My IR-converted A6000 and Rhinocam got home 2 hours ago.

    Eduardo
    Don't worry I was wrong twice also. I preferred the A6000 as well, only ever so slightly and I could only detect a tiny difference in parts of the image. Maybe it was some other factor.

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    To me this makes the A6000 a extremely good backup to the power of the A7r. Its also a great travel cam and even on a Pro level for me i can use it on gigs. For 650 dollars I am extremely impressed by that alone.
    I know I'm reviving an old thread, but I had a question, or more specifically, needed some confirmation.

    I currently have an A6000 and added a nice range of lenses. The kit lenses, 16-55mm, 50-210mm. The 50mm Prime 1.8f, the 35mm Macro 3.5f, and the Samyang 12mm F2 'Astro' lens.

    I'm considering the reasons to upgrade to the A7R, and after seeing this thread, am thinking maybe it would be a good idea to sell the A6000, get the A7R body, and keep using my lenses until I can sell them/afford to replace them with FF lenses. Based on what I'm reading, I won't lose anything by doing this, but will be better setup to just focus on getting the FF lenses over time. Then, these lenses can be used when I'm ready to upgrade to the A7Rii.

    Does all of that sound right?
    Appreciate any input.

    Thanks all,
    Rob

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    Re: A7r Crop Mode Vs A6000

    Quote Originally Posted by shamanrawb View Post
    ...get the A7R body, and keep using my lenses until I can sell them/afford to replace them with FF lenses. Based on what I'm reading, I won't lose anything by doing this...
    Your existing lenses should work well on the A7R, but you will give up some megapixels. The APS-C mode on the A7R is 15mpx, vs the 24mpx of the a6000.

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