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Thread: Sony A77II ordered

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Sony A77II ordered

    Placed my order at B&H this morning. Check out Sony rumors video with Gary Fong given a demo. I never seen AF tracking so intelligent. I'm impressed can't wait to shoot it on runway. This setup with AF continuous with single point expanded is a no brainer.

    So now I'll have 3 bodies A7r, A6000 and A77ii.

    Heck I got every conceivable photo shoot thrown at me covered now. Primary PR will be A77ii and primary advertising will be A7r and the A6000 will float between everything.

    Anyone else order one
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Looks great... I had the first one and didn't use it enough so I sold it towards my other camera gear. Probably will pass on this one as I think I've come to the conclusion I'm just not a DSLR guy and I want to se what Photokina brings in the way of the rumored Sony/Fuji MF camera.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    im ordering one shortly. looks amazing !

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Placed my order at B&H this morning. Check out Sony rumors video with Gary Fong given a demo. I never seen AF tracking so intelligent. I'm impressed can't wait to shoot it on runway. This setup with AF continuous with single point expanded is a no brainer.

    So now I'll have 3 bodies A7r, A6000 and A77ii.

    Heck I got every conceivable photo shoot thrown at me covered now. Primary PR will be A77ii and primary advertising will be A7r and the A6000 will float between everything.

    Anyone else order one

    New for Sony, I agree.
    I am amazed though by the amount of disinformation in those videos about continuous autofocus tracking.
    Other vendors have done that kind of thing successdully before, no?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Not sure any have done it with a single point than in expanded mode like that. Usually it's just with the single point only and no movement of the AF point. Sony locks in than follows with the next closets AF point or maybe better said will go outside the initial AF point and keep tracking. Now I don't know of 4/3rds systems as they might be able to do that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    So now I'll have 3 bodies A7r, A6000 and A77ii.
    You know, there is that thing with uneven numbers. Should have placed the order for A7S as well.

    Whether you order now or in a few weeks, order you will!



    Congrats! Looking forward to your experience and pictures! For wildlife, the 500 F4 with 1.4 extender is probably a dream on her!

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Na I'm hooked up really well now. Here is the plan.

    Shooting Criteria One: landscape , advertising and anything I really care about. LOL

    A7r , ZA 24 F2, sigma 35mm ART, ZA 85 1.4 and 135 1.8
    backup to it A6000 plus two lenses I can use Zeiss 12 either on the A6000 as a 18mm or in crop mode on the A7r but I can shoot on the A7r right to the image circle and crop a square if I wanted. This one can be useful when I need vertical space. Plus I have the 55 1.8.

    In effect I have 18,24,35,55,85,135 and with the A6000 I can go to 200mm. Covered like a blanket

    Shooting Criteria 2: PR, Events,
    AF continous focus situations and 24mpx is more than enough stuff

    A77II, 16-50 2.8 DT lens, 85 1.4 and 135 1.8 PLUS I have the 24mm and 35mm if I need ISO shooting speed.
    Backup A6000, Zeiss 12 and 55mm

    again 18mm -200mm covered plus redundant fast lenses if needed. I rent the 70-200 for a effective 300mm for my big runway shows. Im not buying a 70-200 so i rent it when needed

    Shooting Criteria 3
    Af backup to both 1 and 2 shooting criteria, travel and when I want to go light

    A6000 Zeiss 12, 55mm FE plus i can use my Sony 4 adapter for the 24 and 85. which gives me a range from 18mm to 135mm

    Im pretty happy about the way I set myself up. Sure would not mind having some older manual lenses for the A7r but I still get a very nice look to some of the lenses I already have the 24, 35 are very nice in look but the 85 and 135 are killer in look.

    My only real snag to this is on the A7r i am using a adapter on all my glass except the 55 and 12mm but until Sony makes some real fast glass in FE this is what we get. I bought most of my ZA glass used so I won't take too much of a beating when the FE glass comes out. The 135 I did buy new and not sure i would ever sell it anyway. Just too nice even though they are coming out with a SSM model I will pass on that. Its plenty fast in AF speed.

    Okay back to work on deadline
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Na I'm hooked up really well now.
    I am sure you meant to say, Na I'm hooked up really well FOR now.

    Well thought out package in deed Guy!

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Guy

    You are evidence of how Sony have come from nowhere and now are poised to be the leading camera company in the market.

    LouisB
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    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Looks like I will have the A77II Friday and my 16-50 on Monday. Im all ready for both with LCD protector , lens hood ( i use metal lens hoods, no front cap for years)strap, 2 extra batteries and charger plus some new cards. I will get the vertical grip within the next month as well. Probably buy 2 more batteries as well for a total of 5 for when I do all day gigs.

    BTW been having a lot of luck on those Wasabi batteries on the A6000 and A7r. I ordered these for the A77II.

    My only downfall of these 3 bodies is they take 2 different batteries. PITA but it is what it is.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Guy,

    I have a few ZA lenses I am selling. I have two of everything. I even have a new in the box 24-70 f4 zeiss in FE mount. ping me if you want something. I will give you a smoking deal I just don't use the extra stuff.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Im out of money now bud. LOL

    But let me know what you have.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    A77II is here I never shot the A77 but this is one cool camera and I like the functionality of it. One thing to get used too for me is the focus modes the dial is on the body. Seriously though this thing may never come off Continuous focus with Low drive speed which you can still do a single shot easy as its not that touchy and the Flexible spot AF point might just be the ticket for a lot of PR and event work and its quiet. I do have to play some more but first impression is very positive.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    I only care about that AF speed with continuous shots with maximum fps, i would like to use this camera dedicated for sports, if it can match those Canon/Nikon sports bodies then i am in.
    Tareq
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Guy, what is your initial verdict on the A77II? I still didn't pull the trigger on the a6000. My wife ran a fashion blog about 4 or 5 years ago, which is the reason that Marc W. convinced me to get the a900. She now wants to get back in the game so I will definitely need something a bit better than the a900 for the runway and party work. The 77 II entered my mind because of your work and the fact that I could use it for sports as well.

    The 77 II is small enough to use as a travel camera as well, is my guess, but I am really loving my iPhone 5s for pretty much everything family and travel related in the meantime.

    Thank you.

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered



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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    I just went out to shoot a couple shots finally. Been sitting on this for a week now. Now that LR supports it I can process some files. But I will say this on the AF. It just about beats the crap out of anything I have seen. I actually like this camera a lot and the A6000 I like a lot. For different reasons of course but for the money these cams are pretty dang nice and the A77II is lacking for very little functionally . I get something up here in a bit, I just finished a huge design project last week so I am getting back to normal. Yea i do graphic design too but don't tell anyone. Im good but reality is Im a Pro Photographer not a Pro designer. LOL

    Now i just need to learn Lightroom as I loaded that 2 days ago.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Thank you. Now all we need is photos. Your secret about being a graphic designer is safe with us.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    Guy, what is your initial verdict on the A77II? I still didn't pull the trigger on the a6000. My wife ran a fashion blog about 4 or 5 years ago, which is the reason that Marc W. convinced me to get the a900. She now wants to get back in the game so I will definitely need something a bit better than the a900 for the runway and party work. The 77 II entered my mind because of your work and the fact that I could use it for sports as well.

    The 77 II is small enough to use as a travel camera as well, is my guess, but I am really loving my iPhone 5s for pretty much everything family and travel related in the meantime.

    Thank you.
    If the A77II isin the vein of the original then it will be a great camera. The only reason I sold my A77 was because I just didn't use it enough.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Okay Straight out of the can and stupid me I forgot the 16-50 this morning and had the Za 24mm on. I processed this in LR with only sharpening applied. Right now I have 90, .6, 25 and masking 10. Im not married to it yet but it is sharp as ****. LOL



    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Admittedly Im not a expert in LR yet but here is a case when C1 just screwed me . I have no Raw support for either the A6000 or A77II. But I have it in LR and one reason I bought it plus it has all the lens profiles.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    When I test something it usually is at the extremes as I need to know the limits of these cams. Here is no exception a very tough scene for any cam.

    First one just the sharpening applied , the second image I processed it for what looks best.



    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Obviously I worked the highlights and the shadows to expand the DR on it plus I added a little saturation and vibrance which does make it pop some. Now I could even go further on the highlight and shadows so I am not at the top of the adjustments which is very good to have that extra elbow room.

    I might add here the extra DOF of the APS sensor is kind of handy to have. These are at F8 which does carry the whole scene very well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    This is pretty impressive. 100 percent crop

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Nice lens corrections

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Thanks for the pics Guy.

    That is pretty impressive in deed for a 1k a-mount DSLR. The price seems very attractive in deed.

    Do you have the 70-400mm as well?

    Geeze, that would bring this lense up to a 600mm without and 840mm with a 1.4 extender. Combined with that blazing fast focus, this sounds very nice for wildlife.

    Did you get her with vertical grip as well?

    I am so used to this, I could not live without.
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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    I just played with one and could not believe how light it was. I thought it was a prop.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Just finishing up a big gig with it shooting all my glass but the light was total crap inside this meeting room had to shoot at ISO 2500 1/160 at 2.2 with the 135 and 85. Tough gig but files are looking pretty good. I never usually go over 1600 but again no choice. 2 great things the AF is amazing and Im never selling my 85 1.4 or 135 1.8. I just need fast glass and no way getting around it. Its very light and very comfortable to shoot. Battery life i shot about 700 images today with chimping before i had to switch batteries. So stop listening to the whiners on battery, all cams eat batteries buy more. I have 5 for the A77II and 6 for the A/E cams. But even with steady shot and on monopod you still need to shoot above 1/125 with these focal length lenses as movement from subject is gonna kill ya. Down the road I may get a A7S too. But that will be after Photokinia as i am waiting for more Sony surprises.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Down the road I may get a A7S too.
    Hehehehe!!!!!! Didn't take long.... didn't take long at all!



    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    You know, there is that thing with uneven numbers. Should have placed the order for A7S as well.

    Whether you order now or in a few weeks, order you will!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Na I'm hooked up really well now.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Guy,
    Now that you have used the A77II for a while, I was wondering if you could answer this question? If you could only have A6000 or A77II (given that you had a few FE, E and A mount lenses in your kit), which one would it be?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Great question as much as I like the form factor of the A6000 and the files for WORK its a little limited compared to the A77II. Now i say that because more of the A77II abilities in focusing and the options that you have . The A6000does not have the Expanded Flex Spot nor the Lock on AF spot with 79 AF points to do continuous tracking. Now if you don't need that than the A6000 is awesome. One other little nit moving the AF point with the joystick on the A77 II is a breeze as with the A6000 you have to dive into either a custom button and than move it or a FN function ( what I have set up) and than move it. Much slower in practice compared to the A77II which is on the fly. I won't bring up lenses as that will change on the FE side of the house down the road but I will say the A glass is the fast glass and if you need speed than A it is except for the 55 FE. Now having said that even with the adapter limitations on the A6000 I have no issues shooting the bigger A glass on it. Maybe not a handheld 300mm 2.8 but even the 135 its not bad. Maybe better said if I did not need it for Pro work the A6000 is a huge hit and seriously anyone that has a 7 series body should have this as a backup or even a primary for travel. One the new 16-35 comes out it will make that even more powerful. But the kit lens I sent you is really not bad either just slow. Now i have used and do use my Sony DT 16-50 2.8 on the A6000 as well with adapter and although a little big it works great and I love the Zeiss 12mm as well. In all honesty if I had life my way it would be the A7r and the A6000 and all FE glass for the weight and size. But like many hobbyists sometimes we need those fast lenses and other options. The A77II gives me that option plus a vertical grip. I don't want to downplay the A77II either as it is a very powerful cam in many many ways but we are back to our DSLR days but this one at least is pretty small and light. I would buy both of them again in a NY second though so that says a lot for both of them. I never liked the older Nex bodies even had one but this one I like a lot. Here is the good news they are both cheap and screaming deals with lenses. Seriously buy from B&H get the 14 day return and try them or even rent them at Lensrentals and even renting them is dirt cheap for 4 days. I been doing that lately try it first and see. The A77II i knew I needed it so I just preordered it from the specs. No regrets either not for 1200 dollars

    Now for the A7s body it has everything I would want but not the focusing of the A77II and thats the key feature on the A77II is the AF as none of the 7 series has this new AF setup of the A77II. Im hoping that will change at Photokinia and if it does than i would be fully committed to the A7 series , right now i am not and one reason I have mostly all A glass as Im in a holding pattern on my final destination. But Im working without struggle and I am enjoying it even though I have 3 bodies to get what i want its not a lot of money so right now that makes it just fine financially. And 1 or 2 gigs both of them are paid for.

    Let me add something else on the ROI side of the house and this applies to everyone as well. The commitment to Sony has not been very expensive at all compared to the same commitment to lets say a Leica that 5K for one lens has pretty much outfitted me with at least one body and several lenses to boot and extremely good lenses. Im a lens whore as we all know and I demand good glass, I am not lacking in IQ for even a split second. So I can still produce outstanding technically great images and keep costs down. Thats not a bad deal at all for everyone. Given I spent a lot of time on 5 MF digital backs thats a serious compliment to Sony. I don't throw that comment out to often coming from Medium Format.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quick one from yesterday and Im starring at over 2000 images to process right now in LR. Yuk

    Anyway shot at ISO 2500 with the 85 1.4 ZA lens at 1/160 at F2.2 on a monopod. BTW the best underrated tool out there in photography land. I did leave Steady shot on as i thought it might help even though I am truly a rock at handheld or monopod work. Little noise as you can see but not bad.

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    ... Given I spent a lot of time on 5 MF digital backs thats a serious compliment to Sony. I don't throw that comment out to often coming from Medium Format.
    hmmm. that's also throwing the gauntlet down at the MFD manuacturer/s

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    LOL. You know there are many many opinions on this one and sometimes the bottom line is ease of use and fluidity is just the better option. Maybe better said or said in a different way is you just might be better as a photographer without the absolute need for a tripod. I have about 30 more of these comments but its gotten so close and yet there is a little difference between them but if they do NOT innovate and the market just settles for less than there in big trouble. Biggest issue is and let me be so frank is smartphones are killing the photography business end of it , be it your a bottom feeder or a top notch Pro its having a affect and any one that denies that fact is got there preverbal head in the sand.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    BTW did i show you my A77II with a little upgrade to it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    I had no qualms about the A77 when I owned it. Great camera and probably the only dSLR that I REALLY liked. It looks like the A77II improves every little niggling issue A77 owners had - namely AF accuracy and tracking in lower light. Sony and Zeisshad some great A-mount lenses which gives me hope for future FE lenses. I only really sold my A77 because I just didn't use it enough. Just about everything I shot was with my M9. Well the A7/A7R has actually gotten me to sell my M9 but I held on to the lenses until after Photokina when one of two thing will end up happening - I buy a Monochrom or put the Leica lenses (I'm keeping the Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses regardless of outcome) up for sale toward an entry level MF system.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Yes in the last three days on 2 gigs I clocked in about 3000 images on it in total and my first real shoot with it and maybe the most important feature was just ease of use. No struggles getting it to do exactly what I wanted to do and very fast to get around the deck as they say. For a Pro working in a PR type environment that is all you can ask for is just work and don't get in the way. Now I say it is a very nice ISO 1600 cam and maybe I am picky on this end of it but even these ISO 2500 images look good at 50 percent than downrezed they look pretty good . At 100 percent pixel peaking level one may not like it as much but usually these high ISO kinds of shooting the end use is usually lower res output anyway. For the money this is a good buy.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Quick one from yesterday and Im starring at over 2000 images to process right now in LR. Yuk

    Anyway shot at ISO 2500 with the 85 1.4 ZA lens at 1/160 at F2.2 on a monopod. BTW the best underrated tool out there in photography land. I did leave Steady shot on as i thought it might help even though I am truly a rock at handheld or monopod work. Little noise as you can see but not bad.

    Hi Guy

    No disrespect but I'm not sure this shot looks particularly special, as in, I don't believe that the A77II got it any better than any other modern camera could have captured it. It is noisier than it could have been, monopod, rock steady pro and steady shot, couldn't you have reduced the shutter speed a lot lower than 1/160 and used a much lower ISO? She doesn't look like she was moving quick!

    I'm all for being enthusiastic about the kit we have but it just doesn't feel like there is anything particularly special here, all cameras nowadays have great IQ, it's sort of a given.

    Have you used the focus tracking in anger yet? I saw the video in the link you posted before with the tracking of the football players, very impressive but the thing that struck me was that it tracked the players chest everywhere he went, who needs accurate focus of his chest? Why wasn't it tracking his head? I don't believe it's possible for a camera to know what we want to focus on, it's great if it does happen to pick the right thing but in fast moving action, does it regularly know what you want it to lock on to?

    I'm looking in to a system for fast moving situations, I don't mind investing in a sony system if it has real benefits, I don't see them for this sort of PR stuff but maybe it really is better suited to sports etc. What do you think?

    Mat

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    None taken. Maybe slightly the wrong image to show what I was up against as I shot maybe 10 percent of the images out of 2000 when one was sitting down. The other was in front of the room and honestly very few people actually stand behind a podium and talk, most walk, pace , jitter and move around like rabbits up there. Mostly nervous to be even up there so they move a lot. I'll show a image of that later this morning. But sure I could have maybe dropped down to ISO 1600 for that shot. But I did test in the very beginning ISO 1600 at about 1/125 and saw movement immediately from the subject and given the horrible lighting I was left with no options but to bump it up. If you read my comment above I allude to the fact its a ISO 1600 cam not a ISO 2500 unless I was willing in LR to knock more noise down but that comes at a price too as images start to smear and I like detail. Often in most cases it's one or the other in these lighting situations either you go clean and suffer detail or given the output which in this case I knew and my client knows since I told her do not go big with these as it won't hold up. For her use these will be fine but again your back to limitations and here I did say above its a ISO 1600 cam. I'm not one of those high ISO freaks out there. I often laugh at the ISO 6400 and above comments out there.

    Now I will say movement with a monopod and being as locked down the problem is not coming from me at all so that part is eliminated right off the bat as a monopod is the best tool for this and sure a couple shots handheld you can match it but sitting there all day fatigue sets in on you not a monopod. No one can handhold a camera for 8 hours and 2000 images and not feel fatigue . Monopods take that issue away, like I said the most underrated tool in photography.

    Again these are noisy and I did say that and not the biggest fan of it but it's also rare I get into these high ISO problems but this room was set to look nice and not be a effective meeting room design at all. Bad planning IMHO .

    Now the big thing about this cam is the focus tracking which here I did little of but let's talk about the video and sports. In that video the soccer players are lets say 50 yards away and the DOF difference between the chest and the eyes is about nill. It's maybe a 2 or 3 inch difference of focus plane so given the distance it's pretty meaningless. Now would be nice to track the face don't disagree but problem is its a very small area compared to the chest so no matter whatever system you have the the AF can jump off far easier on the face than someone's chest with also a far better phase or contrast detection on a big chest area with numbers or graphics on the shirt or even different colors. A shirt is far easier to stay on tracking than a small face. I think the real point in the video and even what I was commenting on is the AF are is so large in the frame that we have not seen a cam pretty much go across 80 percent of the frame. Now that part is a big deal as I have not seen any other cam have that type of spread. That's really the highlight of this cam is the AF focus tracking and yes I agree after that's its like almost any other cam. Functionally its a nice layout fairly small , lightweight and cheap. Other than that it's not a high ISO cam like a D4 or Sonys new A7s. So I did not buy it it for that , I bought it for the tracking ability , vertical grip to do certain jobs with it. Plus a 200mm is a 300mm. So I did not have to spend 6 grand on a 300 2.8 lens. I'm cheap these days . Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Mat one other thing in play here is focal length of lenses and the magnification factor and shutter speed. I shot the 135 a lot here as well which is a effective 200mm . Now knowing the old rule of thumb with shutter speed you should match or exceed your focal length with shutter speed. Here is a case I should be shooting 1/200 or faster and more likely a lot faster like 1/400 but given you have steady shot and this case on a monopod you can cheat some but not a heck of a lot. Now my 85 did a better job than the 135 given the same 1/160 shutter speed and from testing these two lenses they are equal from 2.2 down. This is why I test my gear is to know this stuff for the field but I would have been far better off shooting the 135 at like 1/200 or faster but I just did not have the light output for it and refused to go even higher on the ISO so I switched to the 85 and got closer.
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    I'm on a roll here and let's talk about auto ISO . Frankly no one has this right yet from my experience. Every manufacture try's to protect you the shooter as in most cases it pushes the ISO higher to save you from low shutter speeds. It's why I never use it. In this case I have no doubts it would push me to ISO 3200. No doubt in my mind here. Now some cams you can control the limits of the high and low ISO but it will still no doubt about it push you to your limit in poorer light. Which many times is not what you want. Its a nice tool but again you need to know what it will do and I see complaints about this often. Even in good light it might push you to ISO 200 or above and your trying to shoot at 100. So care needs to be taken here. All OEMs are trying to protect you here as rule of thumb for them is not everybody is a expert shooter or should be.
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Pardon my rambling its 3 in the morning and like usual I don't sleep worth a damn.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Guy

    Thanks for your thoughts, I understand that these sorts of shoots are bread and butter, it's about recording the event reliably and producing usable result for the client, whatever the lighting situation so understand why you went the way you did.

    I'm less convinced by the af, I understand that depth of field at those distances makes the af lock on the chest less relevant, but at those distances I'd have just stopped down and got everything in focus and bumped ISO to compensate, if I was shooting wide open with a 200 f2 for example then I would think there would be a need for the focus to be on the face. Don't get me wrong, I think the ability to track is fantastic, I just don't see how the camera is ever going to know exactly what it is you are prioritising when there are lots of moving characters, it must surely be luck if it picks the thing you want to track. I also am not entirely convinced that the focal point for an image is ever really going to be at the extremes of the frame on purpose.

    To be honest i'm a bit of a luddite anyway, I use single point if I'm using af and just lock and recompose, mostly though I'm using mf and find it easier to control, sports and fast moving stuff I have little experience with so it's good to hear the views of others to try and understand what it's all about.

    I understand your auto ISO point, I like how you can set minimum shutter speed, maximum ISO and it will only increase ISO once you have met the minimum speed, works for me. On a monopod I can reliably get much lower speeds than the standard shutter speed/focal length calculation, I find that accurate for handheld but when it's on a monopod I can go a lot slower.

    Anyway, it's all good, learning from the experiences of others is what life is about.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Thank you, Guy, for sharing your insights.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    This is all good stuff Guy.

    I appreciate this sort of practical report verses some other more academic types because our paid shooting situations are very often quite similar: fast paced, moving from one lighting environment to another (often from poor to even poorer), static subjects that suddenly and unpredictably move, and copious amounts of images even if you carefully pick decisive moments, (a product of shooting 8 to 10 hours coverage with lots of different subjects).

    While I am not in the market for the A77-II, I'm very interested in what it directionally means for future Sony SLTs ... namely any replacement for the FF A99 which is my current workhorse for PR, weddings, events and parties.

    I've now determined that as long as I do this sort of work, I cannot exclusively rely on the A7 type camera and FE lens system ... a DSLR/SLT is a must ... in fact, other than available light stuff with a few A mount lenses, I see the A7 stuff as mere back-up to some sort of Sony SLT until the A99 replacement gets here and the A99 becomes the back-up to it ... and the A7R then goes into limbo or much reduced use.

    I did a Bat Mitzvah a few weeks ago, and used the A99 and Sony 500 mirror which is AF (the ceremony was a football field away) ... and between the Monopod and IBIS you will not believe what shutter speeds I was able to use @ f/8 while staying ISO 1600. I was even amazed.

    Keep the comments and pics coming Guy (good and bad) ... all enlightening stuff IMO.

    - Marc
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Guy

    Thanks for your thoughts, I understand that these sorts of shoots are bread and butter, it's about recording the event reliably and producing usable result for the client, whatever the lighting situation so understand why you went the way you did.

    I'm less convinced by the af, I understand that depth of field at those distances makes the af lock on the chest less relevant, but at those distances I'd have just stopped down and got everything in focus and bumped ISO to compensate, if I was shooting wide open with a 200 f2 for example then I would think there would be a need for the focus to be on the face. Don't get me wrong, I think the ability to track is fantastic, I just don't see how the camera is ever going to know exactly what it is you are prioritising when there are lots of moving characters, it must surely be luck if it picks the thing you want to track. I also am not entirely convinced that the focal point for an image is ever really going to be at the extremes of the frame on purpose.

    To be honest i'm a bit of a luddite anyway, I use single point if I'm using af and just lock and recompose, mostly though I'm using mf and find it easier to control, sports and fast moving stuff I have little experience with so it's good to hear the views of others to try and understand what it's all about.

    I understand your auto ISO point, I like how you can set minimum shutter speed, maximum ISO and it will only increase ISO once you have met the minimum speed, works for me. On a monopod I can reliably get much lower speeds than the standard shutter speed/focal length calculation, I find that accurate for handheld but when it's on a monopod I can go a lot slower.

    Anyway, it's all good, learning from the experiences of others is what life is about.
    Sure I agree outside in decent light you can drop your aperture down to 5.6 still have good shutter speed and not fight high ISO situations where noise is not a problem. Plus with a monopod it gives you a nice stable base to work from, most sports shooting falls mostly in that area. Now you have several AF options here with the A77Iii and I did not get into that very much as I believe you have about 4 options. Single point like any cam than there is expand single point which is nice for faces as it locks on with a single point than expands the area about 9 AF points so if your doing a portrait it will follow the eye if the subject is moving some, think model here. Than there is AF zone which takes about 9 points and you get a joystick in all these AF modes that moves your points very swiftly around the frame. Than of course you get options of single or continuous . The one we are talking about in the video is AF continuous tracking in the wide area setting. That one you hit your single AF point wherever you want and as the subject moves it uses about 9 points to track that single point you locked onto. This is the newest AF we seen and very promising. But once again AF is AF it's not predictable thinking as the human behind the camera knowing where the subject is going. So basically its dumb to that and it will not always nail it in every frame but you can still get a good hit rate and with high shutters good apertures and reasonable ISO speeds that hit rate will be better. Let's not also forget good light helps immensely the phase and contrast detection systems. So you get a lot of options with AF here and more than I hit on. Need to read the specs carefully to figure out all the options.

    Like Marc said the A7 series lacks this AF ability so if you need this than for now the A77II is a great option. I have no doubts this AF stuff here will be in future Sony cams. No doubt it will make it into a A99 full frame as well. Like usually we are playing the waiting game for that but for now at this price point it's damn good. That's all we can ask for as they keep innovating and Sony looks determined to be the leader in innovating . Gotta love that as a end user
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Better example here and mostly what I shot all day people up in the front arms waving and any type of movement you can think of.

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Lets talk about noise a little here and as you keep trying to knock it down tun it keeps losing detail. Now given the output one must decide where is the balance in the file to keep your detail and?or knock out some of the noise. Personally as i said this is a ISO 1600 camera but Im also pretty critical about the look of the file and noise content. i don't like noise simply put. But I could take this a little further and again when dealing with High ISO you hope that you don't have to get big with it.

    this one is very minimal like the ones above.




    Now this one I went a little more and sure the noise does decrease and maybe the break point but I am still losing detail. Which honestly drives me nuts. But again this is a comfort level as to what you like

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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Noise wise it looks better detail wise as you can see his sideburns and facial hair is losing detail. The question becomes what is acceptable and what is not. So for my sake I am branding this a ISO 1600 cam and in a emergency ISO 2500 as long as I don't need to get large with it.

    I should point out again this is ISO 2500 shot at 1/160 at 2.2 and i used this image on purpose it eliminates anything I did and the subject in this case is still plus he has facial hair in which we can identify the detail well. Now some folks will think this is perfect and some will not. Its a matter of taste just like sharpness levels are.


    Anyway i think dissecting these things are important as you learn when you go back out what to expect exactly when you come back in and start working your images you just know what works and what does not.

    Now in this image as Mat pointed out I sure could have dropped the ISO which would drop the shutter speed and i still would have got a acceptable image. I agree but here is the problem your out shooting in rapid speed you just don't have that chance to be playing with menu items all day long. Here is where Auto ISO would be very useful if it worked properly or maybe better said to your liking and thinking but unfortunately as mentioned the OEMs play it safe and bump it up to the highest level to protect you. The issue is I don't need to protect myself. ROTFLMAO but they are not designing this stuff for experienced users in a large part but for more inexperienced folks that need more help. I totally get that and i also agree with there thinking but if we could control that better that would be helpful. Maybe one trick or workaround is to use your memory dials which the A77II has 3 memory slots and that would make those type of adjustments much quicker
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    Re: Sony A77II ordered

    Guy I will say this level of noise doesn't bother me for web sizes and even in reasonably sized prints. I can say with certainty that Sony files sharpen up very well when it comes to printing - even when they appear to be a little noisy on screen. I've printed some out from a A77 (which I would say was a ISO 800-1250 for color or 1600-3200 for B&W camera at best spending on subject matter) out to 24x36 with no real issues from a natural viewing distance but I would say 16x24 is ideal for color prints and 18x27 for B&W. Regarding color for those who aren't use to Sony cameras - they generally aren't the high ISO machines the Nikon's are so if the cleanest high ISO is your #1 concern then go with a Nikon tuned Sony sensor.

    Sony is more about realistic and sometimes even vibrant color reproduction. That's what they tune their sensors for in general. I've said it before but the A7 cameras are the closest CMOS sensor I've seen to a CCD like signature when it comes to color. I haven't prated any of my A7 or A7R images yet but I have no doubt that they will do just as well if not better than the A77 images I've printed.
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