Final version: HCam Master TS 14-24mm

[Stefan Steib]

@ Joel

Yes it should be possible to do a 54x36 horizontal stitch and still use rise.
Right now I don´t have Canon TS-E´s here because I use my 14-24mm Nikon, but I use my longer stuff from Mamiya 645 MF on a second TS Adapter M645->EOS and the combo allows independent 2 way shift and 2way Tilt as well !

@ Massimo
I know that most of the longer Leicaa R lenses have pretty large image circles (from 60mm and up) but the wideangles are a different story. Though I have not tested many, this is probably the same as with short Zeiss and Contax Distagons (Primes). Their image circles are very close to the announced format giving only some few mm of movements.

My tip for future combo lenses for the HCam Master TS will be Canon 11-24mm, Tamron 15-30mm and as already used Nikon 14-24mm.
I still need to try the Canon 4/16-35mm, probably also a very interesting candidate.

All the Zooms do have a built in "teleconverter" which automatically enlarges the shortest focal range´s image circle when zooming to the longer end.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

 

[Massimo]

@ Stefan

thank you for the info ... have you already tested the Tamron 15-30mm, and does it require sawing off the hood to work as a shift lens, as you had to do with the Nikon 14-24mm?

 

[Stefan Steib]

Massimo

I would love to test the Tamron 15-30mm , but it´s not yet available in Germany. As soon as I get my hands on it, I will definitely report. This and the 4/16-35mm Canon are next on my list of tests.

Regards
Stefan

 

[daf]

Hi Daf and Stefan,

Daf, your results so far with this adapter have me very optimistic about it

When you say

" Camera in Portrait mode // hcam in shift mode(horizontal) max+11mm // risefall possibilities on the lens: 10mm without vigneting "

does that mean you could possibly shift two portrait orientation shots and end up with a wider F.O.V landscape shot, whilst still retaining front rise on the Canon 24mm TS-E II?

Cannot quite do the maths but would it end up being roughly equivalent to a 17mm equivalent with front rise?

Hope that makes sense..

If so, that would be very cool indeed! Would mean I would not necessarily have to purchase the Canon 17mm TS-E for the very few times I would need a F.O.V that wide.. Anytime I would use that lens would be for static subjects... landscape/architecture etc where it should be no issue to stitch..
.

Yes, when i say:
- Camera in Portrait mode // hcam in shift mode(horizontal) max+11mm // risefall possibilities on the lens: 10mm without vigneting

That mean that you can horizontal shiftstich 3 verticals(portrait) shot to get +/-11mm shift on the adapter so the image end up at 36x46mm and still being able to use 10mm of rise...
There is also a tricks by using cross X shift which could maybe allow more Capture size...

i'm only speaking vignetting here, sharpness need to be tested but some FPS users says that this lens is ok on iq180 so it should have some rooM.

for exemple with the contax 35pc distagon, you can stich 3 images same way: usable image is 36x54..or crossX shift 4images for a44x58mm or 30x60mm Capture size in both case somes room left for shift on the Lens itself...but a quick test show some CA with this Lens art large shift.

There is a lot of interesting discussion on Alpa FPS Hcam1 lenses, i think it make sense to based our choice on those which are good for the iq180...

 

[Glowrider]

Been following this thread and user reports. Have tried emailing Stefan.

Can we get some image samples and maybe a video of the product?

I'm looking at various options for a tech cam to use with my A7ii in the field. This is interesting but frankly there's not enough information (that I've found across other forums and the web) about this product.

Would really like to see pics of the product, pics made with the product, and a video walk through or something similar.

To others following this thread have you made a move on this? I found out about this project from one of Chiek's threads that got hijacked. Thanks.

 

[Stefan Steib]

Glowrider: for images of the product please go to page one of this thread !

for sample images here are some links in full res.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16038687857/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/15605844113/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16223030961/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16199536936/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/15611175023/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16225050175/

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

 

[Glowrider]

Glowrider: for images of the product please go to page one of this thread !

for sample images here are some links in full res.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16038687857/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/15605844113/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16223030961/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16199536936/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/15611175023/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/16225050175/

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

Thank you for these samples - looks like Potsdamer platz . I've seen the product image but am really looking forward to a video walk through to see it in use. I'll be looking forward to that. Thanks.

 

[joelorbita]

A stitched sample using a medium format lens please! A Hasselblad 40mm or 50mm would be great...

One that shows the total stitched area possible and 100% crops!

That is what I need to see before diving in

 

[joelorbita]

Or the Canon 24mm TS-E II lens please!

 

[Jérôme.E]

Thank you for these samples - looks like Potsdamer platz . I've seen the product image but am really looking forward to a video walk through to see it in use. I'll be looking forward to that. Thanks.

+1

A stitched sample using a medium format lens please! A Hasselblad 40mm or 50mm would be great...

One that shows the total stitched area possible and 100% crops!

That is what I need to see before diving in

+1

Or the Canon 24mm TS-E II lens please!

+1

Hi Stefan,
I'm also following this thread for weeks, i've been to your website and i'm really interesting in your product but please give us more "on the field" demo.
Thank to daf for the feedbacks.

Jérôme

 

[mandonbossi]

Yes, I agree 100%, I think information regarding this product is extremely confusing!

I almost ordered one a while back and am really glad I didn't, as it seems that the design has now been improved and is actually quite a useable product now..

Thanks to "Daf" for all the information he has provided. I feel like I have learnt more from his posts than anywhere else

I am interested in stitching with this adapter and like "Daf" has pointed out

"There is a lot of interesting discussion on Alpa FPS Hcam1 lenses, i think it make sense to based our choice on those which are good for the iq180"

I would have thought that this would be a big market for such an adapter? Stitching to get a bigger megapixel image whilst still having access to movements? If I can use lenses with a larger enough image circle and stitch to get a higher megapixel image, then that is awesome!

Where are the examples?

I have very little interest in getting a single shot A7R with a Nikon 14-24mm (or any of the new ultra wide options) even if they do allow shift. Would much rather stitch to get a nicer file with a Canon 24mm TS-E II for example and still have front rise on the lens itself... Or the Canon 17mm TS-E.

I feel like Stefan is so focused on its use with a Nikon 14-24mm that he is overlooking other areas..

Thanks again to "Daf" and if you do get the time, obviously sample images would be greatly appreciated and clear up a lot of confusion! Thanks again!

 

[chkproductions]

I have also been following this thread with interest. My needs are stitching images for more coverage using a wide lens but not an ultra-wide lens (too extreme for me). I'm hope to see some stitched interior images. I am looking to see if the Pentax SMC 35mm MF lens coupled with a Sony 7(x) will work with this system giving a large enough image circle for stitching in portrait format.

And a video walk-through would be very appreciated.

Cheers

chk

 

[Stefan Steib]

Hi Mandobossi

the adapter is usable with about a gadzillion other lenses and every one has special and differing specifics. I am testing the lenses I have and I also answer as many questions as possible, also by email, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to offer a complete list with tests of any available and possible lenses that somebody may want. I am still working on producing, organizing and selling this stuff and sorry I don´t have enough time to do that.

I have now sent a sample to Jack Flesher and I will direct this sample to other testers in the US later, so many people can try this and find about their special needs.

The usage of the TS-E lenses was indeed not a primary purpose of the adapter, as the Nikon 14-24mm lens substitutes these 17 and 24mm lenses to more than 100 % delivering all possible intermediate focal lengthes also.

I am 100% sure If I would market the adapter as a solution for the TS-E lenses, there would be other people complaining about the nonexistant electronic aperture control. So, I mention it , but it is not my primary target.

Right now I am working on a set of 2 adapters (I have already shown images of this) to combine 2x shift and tilt in independent directions to support MF lenses.

Remember: I am not Canon or Nikon, no Pressdepartment nor a sales organisation. Just me.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

 

[Jack]

I just received my demo copy (unit only, no lens) and want to add to some brief initial comments for posterity, and a note to stay tuned for a full blown review!

Firstly, I need to comment on how well this device is made -- it is a gorgeous piece of engineering manufactured on par with anything Arca, Alpa, Cambo or RRS would release. Second, note that while this adapter only allows forward tilts and right<>left shifts, by feature of rotating lens and camera station mounts, one can accomplish most any desired net camera movements "indirectly" if they have the device mounted on a tripod head that allows full hemispherical articulation. The final thing that impresses me is that all of the above is compiled into a very compact, lightweight and easy to operate device. The entire mechanical module is about the size of a typical Lee filter adapter, or the typical bellows alone for other similar adaptive products! No doubt when Stefan develops the multi-axis movement version, it will be more convenient and allow for more exacting combined movements, but it will also no doubt be somewhat larger and heavier. For my needs as a landscape shooter, this unit gives me 98% of all the movements I'm likely to need in an impressively compact device!

Note that the base lensmount is a Canon, so with adapters you can mount virtually anything to it. I have an older pre Nikon G to Eos adapter and have mounted my 17-35/2.8 AFD lens on it. The initial results are exceptional, and moreover, I was surprised at just how much shift and tilt capability exists in that lens! I also have a Mamiya 645 to Eos adapter, and may scrounge for a 120 macro to test, what I think would be an outstanding table-top configuration. I have ordered an appropriate Nikon G to Eos stop-down adapter and will test several lenses I am interested to see how well they work -- namely the Sigma ART 50 and Nikkor 85/1.4G.

Anyway, stay tuned for more as I get to know it.

PS: Stefan, it is very unlikely you will get my demo copy back!!!

 

[Massimo]

...
2. If using the Canon 17mm and 24mm TS-E lenses, what combination of rise AND shift is able to be achieved? Based on other users comments, if there was not a substantial combination of both, I just do not see the point. Especially when having to "preset the aperture of the Canon lenses" which is a bit of a hassle. Why not just use either of those lenses in combination with a Metabones adapter?

By the way, you do not need a Canon body to do this, it can be done via a Metabones adapter if using one. I cannot remember the procedure exactly but it is how I use mine.
...

@joelorbita @daf
Will you please detail how to preset the aperture of a TS-E lens without a Canon body?
Is this doable only with a Metabones adapter or can you use any Canon to Nex adapter like e.g. the much cheaper Viltrox?

 

[Stefan Steib]

I just received my demo copy (unit only, no lens) and want to add to some brief initial comments for posterity, and a note to stay tuned for a full blown review!

Firstly, I need to comment on how well this device is made -- it is a gorgeous piece of engineering manufactured on par with anything Arca, Alpa, Cambo or RRS would release. Second, note that while this adapter only allows forward tilts and right<>left shifts, by feature of rotating lens and camera station mounts, one can accomplish most any desired net camera movements "indirectly" if they have the device mounted on a tripod head that allows full hemispherical articulation. The final thing that impresses me is that all of the above is compiled into a very compact, lightweight and easy to operate device. The entire mechanical module is about the size of a typical Lee filter adapter, or the typical bellows alone for other similar adaptive products! No doubt when Stefan develops the multi-axis movement version, it will be more convenient and allow for more exacting combined movements, but it will also no doubt be somewhat larger and heavier. For my needs as a landscape shooter, this unit gives me 98% of all the movements I'm likely to need in an impressively compact device!

Note that the base lensmount is a Canon, so with adapters you can mount virtually anything to it. I have an older pre Nikon G to Eos adapter and have mounted my 17-35/2.8 AFD lens on it. The initial results are exceptional, and moreover, I was surprised at just how much shift and tilt capability exists in that lens! I also have a Mamiya 645 to Eos adapter, and may scrounge for a 120 macro to test, what I think would be an outstanding table-top configuration. I have ordered an appropriate Nikon G to Eos stop-down adapter and will test several lenses I am interested to see how well they work -- namely the Sigma ART 50 and Nikkor 85/1.4G.

Anyway, stay tuned for more as I get to know it.

PS: Stefan, it is very unlikely you will get my demo copy back!!!

Hi Jack

yes, lightweight and compact was the idea. And it is modular !
we are on the way to improve this system with some more parts.

For me right now I have a new favourite combination that I keep like that in my Photobag and shoot most of my images now:
A nice Canon FD L 1,2/85mm with Ed Mika mount (we do the remounting here in Germany- this lens is a bit tricky to do). This can shift about 10mm wide open, but even better can be tiltet 10 Degrees wide open.

Can you spell Bokeh ?
same applies for the 1,2/50mm FD L

for Macro and Tabletop with the TS-Rail I use the Micro Nikkors 2,8/60 AF-D, the Mamiya 645 4/80mm and 2,8/105 AF-D and for best longer perspective the Mamiya M645 Macro 120mm both on a second Mirex MF to eos adapter.

This is reaching Viewcamera movements, both Rise and fall and numbers.

and all fits easily in a small bag with nearly no weight.

But this is not the end of it. Expect more to come. I already have some more ideas.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

 

[Jack]

Hi Jack

yes, lightweight and compact was the idea. And it is modular !
we are on the way to improve this system with some more parts.

SNIP

Expect more to come. I already have some more ideas.

Stefan

Excellent, I will be waiting!!!

 

[joelorbita]

Hi Massimo,
Unfortunately I have only had experience with the Metabones in pre setting the aperture of the Canon 24mm TS-E II.

Others may work but I have no direct experience. Sorry.

Best

Joel

 

[mandonbossi]

Hi Stefan,
Am not meaning to attack you, I realise that you are running a much smaller operation..

It is just frustrating when you think a product may be really helpful and then not being able to get a clear idea of whether it is going to work for your needs...

I will look forward to tests and sample images from people who have used it in the field..

Can we please see some stitched images please? Of all the images out there I do not think there is one sample of this...

Any idea when your "multi-axis movement version" is coming out? Is that simply going to be a second adapter, combined with this one, that takes medium format glass?


With regards to the Nikon 14-24mm, I am a little confused to its purpose to be honest..

I saw this post recently

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/53261-nikon-14-24-mfdb.html

and I was under the impression that the image circle of the Nikon 14-24mm was bigger enough to cover a full 6cm x 4.5cm sensor..

As you can see from these samples, it does not even cover the smaller IQ250 sensor.

Is it really to be considered a replacement for the Canon 17mm and 24mm TS-E lenses?

Am no expert but it seems to me that the Nikon 14-24mm has a lot more distortion at 17mm than the Canon 17mm TS-E does?

 

[Stefan Steib]

Hi Stefan,

Can we please see some stitched images please? Of all the images out there I do not think there is one sample of this...

Any idea when your "multi-axis movement version" is coming out? Is that simply going to be a second adapter, combined with this one, that takes medium format glass?

With regards to the Nikon 14-24mm, I am a little confused to its purpose to be honest..

I saw this post recently

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/53261-nikon-14-24-mfdb.html

and I was under the impression that the image circle of the Nikon 14-24mm was bigger enough to cover a full 6cm x 4.5cm sensor..

As you can see from these samples, it does not even cover the smaller IQ250 sensor.

Is it really to be considered a replacement for the Canon 17mm and 24mm TS-E lenses?

Am no expert but it seems to me that the Nikon 14-24mm has a lot more distortion at 17mm than the Canon 17mm TS-E does?

As soon as I can do it with some nice weather and according spare time I will do some stitched images and post them on Flickr. full res.

The 2nd adapter will be shown when it´s ready. Obviously some people get confused when I show preliminary stuff. So - patience please.

And Geralds results are exactly as I described them: at 14mm there is not so much movement - maybe 3-4mm of shift /rise - but this alone is already a worlds first at this focal range for 24x36 ! at 20mm the shift is 15mm, which is more than the Canon 17 or 24mm, going down again to about 12mm at 24mm.

The unique feature of this workflow is the ZOOM with all the other focal length possibillities and the fact that nobody needs all the shift available all the time.
Most people just use several mm of rise for single shots.
This is what this system was built for. Fast, conveniant and for working pros doing jobs in the field, not for trying to test how much shifting and stitching can be done before it starts vignetting.

The idea that a combination of shift and rise and stitch at maximum movements are always necessary at these focal lengthes is ..... well.......
unrealistic. I never stated this was the purpose.
This was built to work, not to play.


Greetings from Germany
Stefan