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Thread: DXO D810

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    DXO D810

    Nikon D810 sensor review: New DxOMark leader - DxOMark

    sorry for the cross post but if the mods think it irrelevant, please delete...

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    Re: DXO D810

    So in real world they are still essentially neck and neck!?!
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    Senior Member ecsh's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Looks like it. I doubt you could actually see that difference, it is so small.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Actually not so: the increased DR is just enough to tip it over the bar into being able to handle just about any real world scene. DXO has it at 0.7 stop more than the A7R and so far, to me having shot it in very very bright contrast midday light, it feels like that is just enough increment to really allow white clouds in a bright sky to keep their detail without losing the shadow detail in stuff on the ground. It is too soon to speak definitively of course but so far it feels like the tipping point...

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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Nikon D810 sensor review: New DxOMark leader - DxOMark

    sorry for the cross post but if the mods think it irrelevant, please delete...
    Perhaps I'm missing something but is there a reason why you've posted this in the Sony forum?
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    Re: DXO D810

    I guess it's better here than in the MF forum.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Perhaps I'm missing something but is there a reason why you've posted this in the Sony forum?
    I invited the mods to remove it if they consider it irrelevant and I posted it because for a lot of photographers I know, including myself, the D8xx and Sony A7r are competitors for their time and money. But I am perfectly happy for it to be removed.
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I invited the mods to remove it if they consider it irrelevant and I posted it because for a lot of photographers I know, including myself, the D8xx and Sony A7r are competitors for their time and money. But I am perfectly happy for it to be removed.
    Fine by me. I couldn't see the connection and was genuinely curious.
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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Yeah this probably should be in the other forums like MFD because with this new DXO rating it's obvious what camera is a better value.
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    Re: DXO D810

    I do not care in what forum it is, but I must say I really like this thread!

    I feel there is lot of competition between D810 and A7r, although I still prefer the "old school" approach from Nikon till today. Owning the D800E I am now very close to pull the trigger for the D810. And forget the Sony at least for the next incarnation period.

    Many thanks Tim!

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    Re: DXO D810

    The problem with putting it here is that it appears to be trolling.

    Putting a favorable review or comment of one camera in a thread dealing with another camera is almost certain to elicit the kind of "mine's better than yours" discussion almost certain to annoy someone.

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    Re: DXO D810

    I think this kind of discussion fits in both the Nikon and Sony forum.
    After all the sensors are related.
    I certainly use my D800E and A7R in a complementay fashion.
    The D810 doesn't seem so far to be enough of an improvement for me to warrant an upgrade.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    The problem with putting it here is that it appears to be trolling.

    Putting a favorable review or comment of one camera in a thread dealing with another camera is almost certain to elicit the kind of "mine's better than yours" discussion almost certain to annoy someone.
    Well, nobody took it as trolling, one day after, no one even took the pain to say a word for the A7r. I was curious about DXO results and came to the conclusion that I won't see much difference between the Nikon and the A7r. Anyway I find the DSLRs way to big and to heavy to drag around, so I'm just happy that the A7r remains a close competitor to the D810 :-).
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    Re: DXO D810

    I didn't take it as trolling myself. I just don't think stats tell the whole story. One of my favorite cameras of all time received relatively poor ratings there. Doesn't mean I don't love it (even if I no longer own it.)

    Tim still owns his A7r and I'm sure it will be Sony overtaking Nikon again after Photokina. Won't matter though if it doesn't fit my needs.
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    Re: DXO D810

    we are all spoiled for choice: it's a great time to be a photographer
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    Re: DXO D810

    Well, it is trolling, but Tim gets a pass because of his status here apparently...

    I looked at the review, and I don't see how you are finding a difference in your images Tim? It appears that the only real separation point on DR is at the base ISO (64), and beyond that, the two cameras are essentially comparable.

    I suspect that the difference you are seeing has to do with the way the camera handles exposure and shadow recovery.

    Many people have said that they can bring up the shadows of their a7/a7r images by 2-3 stops very easily and with good results. All you have to do is retain the highlights and perform a slight bit of shadow recovery and you may achieve comparable results with the a7 that you have.


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    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm
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    Re: DXO D810

    Admin note: Comparative discussions of top-level cameras are inevitable. I don't see this one as trolling. First off, DXO themselves made the comparison of the two top cameras -- the new D810 and Sony A7r -- so it seems a fitting post in both forums, which was done. (You will note the same thing happened when the A7r was "the new top dog" over the D800E in the Nikon forum -- no Sony users complained about that, but nor did any Nikon shooters .) The sensors are related as well, so it seems a fitting discussion for readers who have BOTH systems, but use the cameras in different ways for different purposes. As such, they would probably like to discuss relative merits to each with other like--minded users. Trolling in my view would be to say, "I've got the best new whizbanger and your old whateverbrand sucks." This is clearly not the case here, and in fact Tim was sensitive to doing it and why he added the caveat. Instead it was presented as an opportunity to discuss how much the increased DXO stats mean to you as real world photographers -- moreover, it's a good discussion for the plethora of lurkers who land here trying to decide between camera types for a new or first-time purchase. As regular posters on GetDPI, YOUR opinions matter --- no matter what side you're on! Just keep it friendly

    If you happen to not be interested in this type of discussion, you can easily ignore the thread.
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    Re: DXO D810

    Well said Jack. These type of discussions usually bring up other related subjects as well like Ergos, processing and such besides the fine tuning of the OEMs themselves . Myself I don't defend any brand. I like what I like but I always keep my eye on everything to figure out what may work best overall for me. Obviously this is so close in comparison by the numbers in this case it's more about what you can draw out if them in the real world. Now if the Nikons numbers where heavily weighted than certainly something to consider. But either way these are top in there class.
    DXO is fine but it never tells the end story which does not take processing into account and that bugs me some. So real world at least to me is more important but again you have to take all the data as pieces of a puzzle and make solid buying decisions. To me this is far to close by the numbers.
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    Re: DXO D810

    It's very likely that we are 'over the hump' regarding Dynamic Range; it might be that we now have a plate full and don't need much more...the a7r almost never leaves anything behind at either end when well-exposed in high brightness range images as it is. And as you say Guy, even more lurks for access in post-processing.

    I am very happy for the Nikon shooters - DSLRs are fine low ISO landscape devices, so it is playing to a strength, but you are into Velvia territory light-wise to realise the slight gain. At the other end, it is all in the 'red zone', and a dead heat everywhere else.

    As an old E6 shooter reviewing old material, what a difference any FF camera has made. I'd like to see Canon get with the program for their legions, however. The other thought is this - the mighty 36mp sensor is two years old...does Sony have something up their sleeve besides their arm? This is where competition is great, they all try harder to make our lives easier.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I do not care in what forum it is, but I must say I really like this thread!

    I feel there is lot of competition between D810 and A7r, although I still prefer the "old school" approach from Nikon till today. Owning the D800E I am now very close to pull the trigger for the D810. And forget the Sony at least for the next incarnation period.

    Many thanks Tim!
    Thank you... You might like the comparisons I've posted over on the nikon forum...

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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    The problem with putting it here is that it appears to be trolling.
    You have been around GetDPI long enough to know that tashley is not a troll.
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    Well, it is trolling, but Tim gets a pass because of his status here apparently...
    How in the heck did you come up with that, by which figment of vivid imagination?

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    Re: DXO D810

    Tim,

    Is the 810 good enough to upgrade the 800E? I've still found the D800E is more than enough to make good pictures.

    The A7R has their own advantages and the little improvement of the 810 should not be enough reason to sell it. Am I right?

    Certainly, this topic is not a troll and I've found it's very interesting especially coming from Tim.

    Pramote

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Thanks for the 'he isn't trolling' comments people. Clearly I'm not - and I have no 'status' here other than as a long term participant. I'm not a moderator, which is why I invited anyone who is to remove this if they saw fit.

    Moving on. Pramote, honestly, there are few real reasons to move to a D810. Focus is better, in both accuracy, no 'left side' problem and the addition of the Group mode, which I have yet to try but people do say it is great. Shutter is a lot nicer and there is less of a shutter shock problem, plus the EFC mode in LV totally gets rid of the issue. People also commonly report no need for AFFT, which is my experience also but I don't have many AF lenses... The camera overall feels nicer.. And the ISO 64 files are even cleaner though there may be a slight penalty at higher ISO; I haven't done a side by side because I have no D800 now. The new LV is really really good and makes a big difference.

    Overall it's likely to be a usability trade, not an IQ one, but those ISO 64 files sure are clean and the low ISO DR seems hard to exceed.. my best indication is that now, if I am close to home or in the studio I use the D810 rather than the A7r, especially with longer lenses and if I have a lens that fits the Nikon which is at least as good as that I would use on the Sony, but for anything under 70mm and assuming the light is reasonably good, I will use the Sony if I am straying further from base because it is still a nicer package to carry and the differences are for many use cases not relevant.

    I never loved my D800e. I said so many times. It was objectively a very very fine camera but I never loved it. This one somehow feels different and I am really enjoying it. Hard to pin down why, but others have said the same... however, when Sony responds with an AXX variant that has a better shutter and better tracking focus I will probably finally consolidate in that system for good. Those are the last pieces missing from the Sony lineup that matter to me and I prefer the breadth of lens options in Sony.

    ps Pramote - for sure the D800 is generally more than enough to make good pictures, especially in the hands of someone such as yourself, but the D810 broadens the 'shooting envelope' in all but stupidly high ISO situations and will therefor mean, everything being equal, more opportunities for good pictures in the hands of an experienced user.
    Last edited by tashley; 28th July 2014 at 07:02.
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    Re: DXO D810

    From what I am reading, it sounds like Nikon has sorted out some of the 'utility' issues with the D800, and I wonder if Canon show a reverse with the 5d IV: the utility of the 5D III is already fabulous, only now they could do with a better sensor with more DR. Perhaps both manufacturers will end up in about the same place, after all this!

    As for another half stop of DR with the D810, all that mean in real world is half a stop more push in the shadows, if required. I think we are very much in the realm of vastly diminishing returns here, especially when one considers what one cannot shoot perfectly well with the 14+ stops of the D800 and A7R. It has to be a scene that exceeds the DR of the sensor AND cannot be shot with multiple exposures. It has to be a tiny fraction of scenes.

    To me, the new D810 looks like a D800 with the niggles ironed out, so that a person can enjoy a more seamless shooting experience and bond better with the tool, rather than fight the thing. The value of the experience needs no technical validation, although the small improvements are surely welcome.

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    Re: DXO D810

    I don't think the last couples of answers do cover all the D810 uses.
    Such high level sensor needs the best body and lenses to express its potential.
    Use a D800E & a D810 on tripod with MLU, Live View and a very best manual focus lens and the d810 will cumulate its new benefits: better focus thanks to better live view, less vibrations thanks to better shutter, better color depth , DR and less noise thanks to better sensor and iso 64.

    Quite sure that, let's say on 10 high res. landscape pictures taken with both systems, the D810 will show its clear advantage.

    Of course with less perfect lenses or shooting conditions, differences could be reduced to usability improvements only.
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    Quite sure that, let's say on 10 high res. landscape pictures taken with both systems, the D810 will show its clear advantage.
    With the absolute best lenses, best technique, perfect conversion and processing on the same image taken under identical conditions, you *might* be able to detect some slight advantages to the D810 sensor at 100% or 200% pixel view on a calibrated imaging monitor over the A7r or D800E. But I'd be *really* (really, really) surprised if anybody could see any difference in the best 24in x 36in (58cm x 88cm) prints from each.

    Really
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    Re: DXO D810

    This is splitting hairs like the 610 which was to fix the D600 issues. Im afraid the D810 is essentially the same concept. I'm not buying this as a new thing but a tweaked one. Which does add to its value but I would be hard pressed to say its any better IQ wise than its sibling. More likelihood a nice marketing plan.
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post

    Moving on. Pramote, honestly, there are few real reasons to move to a D810. Focus is better, in both accuracy, no 'left side' problem and the addition of the Group mode, which I have yet to try but people do say it is great. Shutter is a lot nicer and there is less of a shutter shock problem, plus the EFC mode in LV totally gets rid of the issue. People also commonly report no need for AFFT, which is my experience also but I don't have many AF lenses... The camera overall feels nicer.. And the ISO 64 files are even cleaner though there may be a slight penalty at higher ISO; I haven't done a side by side because I have no D800 now. The new LV is really really good and makes a big difference.equal, more opportunities for good pictures in the hands of an experienced user.
    Hmmm, Jack, Guy, I'm sure you're right that the IQ differences will be hard to establish, but these usability issues sound very worthwhile.

    Ironically, I was teetering on the brink of a D800e, now they can be had so much cheaper, but this makes me hesitate. I'm afraid I may be doomed to 24mp for ever

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    Re: DXO D810

    Jono,

    I have zero doubt that usability has been improved, and that is a good enough reason to purchase one if you want those features.

    My point is we're at such a high level of performance already, any IQ "improvements" are now pretty tiny and as such, of questionable real value. Getting OT but it is my belief: When the 50+MP DSLR finally gets introduced, my guess is there will be maybe one or two lenses currently available that can outresolve that sensor, so what is really gained from it? We now have nearly 14-stops of DR -- more will be useful in a very tiny percentage of situations that I can think of. As an example, how many of us are already adding black and white to make our images look right in print or onscreen?

    I guess I'm just tired of the MP race wars and pixel peeping extraordinaire -- my desire is to create art and share it through my images. On that vein, I'm still making some really nice images with my iPhone 4. Are technically perfect? Heck no! But are they visually pleasing? Yepindeed, at least to me
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    I agree Jack: it's the lenses. Honestly, now I have the D810 I am struggling to get glass that is both good and (to me) useful. For 70-200 zoom use it's the best game in town but in the past week I've tested the Sigma Art 24-105 and Tamron 24-70 and they are both useful on centre but not capable of edges and corners that remotely satisfy - unlike the Sony Zeiss 34-70 F4, which beats them both comfortably and also IMHO beats the Nikon 24-70 F2.8 overall because of its reasonable performance at 24mm (where the Nikkor is weak) and stellar performance at 50mm, with no focal length at which it is a dud.

    So though I intended to use the D810 mainly for serious work with primes, I am stuck with the fact that short of the Otus, the FE55 is the best 50-ish prime on these sensors - and even if it does get slightly edged by the Sigma ART, I already have the 55. Then I have the FE 35, which is not stellar but is very good, and I can't face going through another several Sigma ART 35s to get a good one. So the D810 is staying, for longer lens use and with my Zeiss 21 and Samyang 14 and beloved 50 Cron, but otherwise, for the lenses I would want to use, the shortlist is depressingly.... short!

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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I agree Jack: it's the lenses. Honestly, now I have the D810 I am struggling to get glass that is both good and (to me) useful. For 70-200 zoom use it's the best game in town but in the past week I've tested the Sigma Art 24-105 and Tamron 24-70 and they are both useful on centre but not capable of edges and corners that remotely satisfy - unlike the Sony Zeiss 34-70 F4, which beats them both comfortably and also IMHO beats the Nikon 24-70 F2.8 overall because of its reasonable performance at 24mm (where the Nikkor is weak) and stellar performance at 50mm, with no focal length at which it is a dud.

    So though I intended to use the D810 mainly for serious work with primes, I am stuck with the fact that short of the Otus, the FE55 is the best 50-ish prime on these sensors - and even if it does get slightly edged by the Sigma ART, I already have the 55. Then I have the FE 35, which is not stellar but is very good, and I can't face going through another several Sigma ART 35s to get a good one. So the D810 is staying, for longer lens use and with my Zeiss 21 and Samyang 14 and beloved 50 Cron, but otherwise, for the lenses I would want to use, the shortlist is depressingly.... short!
    Yes, Tim, the list is short - which is why I'm not giving up on MFDB despite weight, expense and lack of features we take for granted with DSLRs and mirrorless cameras.

    Not to say I don't love the a7r/FE 55 combo!

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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    With the absolute best lenses, best technique, perfect conversion and processing on the same image taken under identical conditions, you *might* be able to detect some slight advantages to the D810 sensor at 100% or 200% pixel view on a calibrated imaging monitor over the A7r or D800E. But I'd be *really* (really, really) surprised if anybody could see any difference in the best 24in x 36in (58cm x 88cm) prints from each.

    Really
    My point is that there is both usability and quality upgrades with the D810 apparently.
    The best manual lenses are surely needed for the quality improvements to show up and this will be supported by a better technical usability (live view, shutter).
    All together there is good chances the D810 pictures will be more technically optimal: depth of field perfectly placed thanks to better LV, less vibration and iso 64 for a touch of extra IQ.
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Jono,

    I have zero doubt that usability has been improved, and that is a good enough reason to purchase one if you want those features.

    My point is we're at such a high level of performance already, any IQ "improvements" are now pretty tiny and as such, of questionable real value. Getting OT but it is my belief: When the 50+MP DSLR finally gets introduced, my guess is there will be maybe one or two lenses currently available that can outresolve that sensor, so what is really gained from it? We now have nearly 14-stops of DR -- more will be useful in a very tiny percentage of situations that I can think of. As an example, how many of us are already adding black and white to make our images look right in print or onscreen?

    I guess I'm just tired of the MP race wars and pixel peeping extraordinaire -- my desire is to create art and share it through my images. On that vein, I'm still making some really nice images with my iPhone 4. Are technically perfect? Heck no! But are they visually pleasing? Yepindeed, at least to me
    Ah, you're preaching to the (long since) converted, although using an iPhone 4 as an alternative to the D810 seems a little 'alternative'!

    In the final analysis it's why I never did jump for MF, and why I never got a D800 and didn't keep the A7r: because they all had disadvantages which more than outweighed their advantages (whether weight or shutter slap or lens choice to take advantage or whatever). I still like the M because it doesn't get in my way and there are a number of small and excellent lenses. It's not perfect, but it's a set of compromises which suits me.

    I'm a gear whore like the best of us, but I prefer taking pictures to testing lenses

    I also very much agree with you about DR, 14 stops is great, but I almost always want both black and white in my images!

    Roll on the Sony A9 I say, with 36mp and a silent shutter. THEN my snoozin' FE lenses will be hoicked out of the cupboard!

    Just this guy you know

  35. #35
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    It seems we're getting to a rather significant point here ---- it isn't about the pixel performance as much as it is about usability to create our art?

    QUICK, MARK YOUR CALENDARS!!!

    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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  36. #36
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I agree Jack: it's the lenses. Honestly, now I have the D810 I am struggling to get glass that is both good and (to me) useful.
    SNIP
    and even if it does get slightly edged by the Sigma ART, I already have the 55.
    You answered your own question -- get the Art 50 and no reason not to keep your FE55 too! This way, you can have the killer 50 with you when you're out with your D810 and not wanting to schlep an entire extra system. (PS: You can afford it! )

    Useful is another interesting topic for me. 6 years ago, useful to me meant perfect sharpness from corner to corner at f5.6 or 8, very little vignetting falloff and flat field performance. Now I realize I've very seldom made an outstanding image where the extreme corners mattered in the final image at all; and then some vignetting and even curvature of field can add an interesting dynamic. So now in glass I go for look, period. And yes, this includes what I call creamy bokeh which I know more than a few of you detest the discussions of! Anyway, my stable of lenses has morphed over the last few years due to this realization, and I am now at a point where I can do pretty much everything I want to do with my existing and much smaller kit. Bodies are about usability, but also look. And yes, total resolution. But not so much emphasis on pixel level performance, total DR (current cams all have enough) or even high ISO performance -- HERESY ALERT! -- I actually LIKE a little noise in an image sometimes
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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  37. #37
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Heretic! Burn him!

    Seriously, I totally agree about corners and even about field curvature but unless I make a specific creative choice to the contrary, I detest soft edges and I particularly detest lenses that focus closer on one side than on the other. Just returned by second mid range zoom in two days for that reason...

  38. #38
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Ah, I agree that decentered elements (which cause skewing and a bunch of other optical atrocities) is unacceptable.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  39. #39
    Member ThomasZ's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Not long ago I was pixel-obsessed like the most of us. Until I had a real eye-opener: I was on vacation with the family and I did not took one of my two 36mp monsters with me, instead I grabbed the Fuji XE-2 with the kit lens and the 10-24, a really amazing small package. I did not really expect to have some great photographic opportunities, but the opposite was the case and I had to use what I had with me. Best of all is the tripod story. I left my mighty Gitzo Carbon tripod with the Arca Swiss head at home because I did not had enough luggage space (I have a wife with a lot of shoes!). When I realized that I may need one, I jumped into the only spanish photo shop and bought a rattly no-name tripod for 59. Worked flawless. And guess what - I brought great results home, for example this one: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/589618-post3589.html
    I printed it at 60x90cm and it looked great.

    But of course I will buy the next high-end A7 camera at the day it comes out. GAS is simply incurable
    http://500px.com/ThomasZ
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  40. #40
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    Re: DXO D810

    I have to say I'm loving the look of my older lenses towards this goal, the A7r with choice legacy lenses costing peanuts is a great way to kick back, relax and think about the result not the way you got there. Been redoing my website, lot of images I'm really happy with. 8 years of work. I wonder if anyone could tell which lens or camera or indeed how many megapixels. Heck half the time I don't remember myself. I used whatever lens I had kicking around from my wedding photography business at the time or could borrow from a friend.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  41. #41
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Believe it or not I love my Sony A6000 as for me its a total kick to shoot. The IQ is really really good too. The days of chasing ultimate image quality have been over for awhile now for me at least. Ever since I sold my Phase gear than I just had to accept what I can get out of 35mm digital again. Im fine with that too. These newer cams are a million times better than when I entered digital back in 1992 I think it was.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  42. #42
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I have to say I'm loving the look of my older lenses towards this goal, the A7r with choice legacy lenses costing peanuts is a great way to kick back, relax and think about the result not the way you got there.
    This ^^^

    It is liberating isn't it, to shoot for the image instead of chasing pixel perfection?
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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    Re: DXO D810

    The reality is that many photographers spend more time trying to inject imperfection into their images than perfection. That says it all to me.

    I made the decision as Guy: if I cannot produce a cracking image at 36MP (aside from some crazy special application), then I need to remind myself what makes an image great. I don't need more and I don't want more. In many cases I am enjoying my ability to produce noise and lose resolution with my M43 camera at high ISO.

    Technical perfection is a red herring, but great utility is another matter. That really does result in better images.

  44. #44
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Here is the bottom line. Anyone can shoot the same or better gear than me and as a Pro what's separates me and having a steak dinner instead of bread and butter sandwich is just flat out talent. If I can't shoot better than what my clients can buy and shoot than I'm in deep do-do. Gear only does one thing and sure its great to have the best and I try hard to have it but end of the day it's just a tool. It's what between your ears that counts. It's not any more complex than that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    talent.
    rather ability to sell your product to your clients... you can call that talent too
    A7RII + FE55/1.8
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  46. #46
    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    So I take it none of your guys will take any interest at all in the 50+ Mpx cameras that will be introduced shortly...
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  47. #47
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    So I take it none of your guys will take any interest at all in the 50+ Mpx cameras that will be introduced shortly...
    Hey we are still pigs. Lol

    Seriously though there times when having a 50mpx cam would be extremely useful. I would still love to have a tech cam with a back. Now it's creative cheating without it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  48. #48
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    rather ability to sell your product to your clients... you can call that talent too
    Absolutely and unfortunately there are a lot of Pros with very little talent but very good marketing skills.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    So I take it none of your guys will take any interest at all in the 50+ Mpx cameras that will be introduced shortly...
    I'm sure there will be a certain amount of people that would benefit from such MP increase (assuming glass can keep up). Better question is how many how often.

    Me? Unless something suddenly changes for me I will absolutely have no benefit from it. Even 36MP of my A7R are quite often much more than I need. Out of photos I have taken recently one that stood out by a mile above all others in compliments it got from those that have seen it has been taken with 12MP camera. My interest in D810 is not because of megapixels, it is due to features / functions, like ISO 64.

  50. #50
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: DXO D810

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    (assuming glass can keep up).
    BLAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! !

    Sorry, it just blurted out.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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