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Thread: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

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    A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    The A7S / FE 24-70 is a potent combo. Images look really good across the frame at 24mm and are exceptional at every other focal length, including 70mm. I tried 4 samples of this lens with my A7R and not one was sharp across the frame at 70mm (at any aperture).

    Here's some test shots from the extremes of the zoom range (all shot in raw and processed in LR5). I haven't bothered posting samples around 35 and 50mm since the lens performs superbly on the A7 and A7R at these focal lengths just as it does on the A7S.

    A7S + FE 24-70, 24mm @ F8:



    Link to full size: https://db.tt/qZS2bHBf


    A7S + FE 24-70, 70mm @ F4:



    Link to full size: https://db.tt/V3648MqC


    A7S + FE 24-70, 70mm @ F8:



    Link to full size: https://db.tt/R57R9KV7


    I no longer have my A7R but I've been able to dig out an image taken in virtually identical conditions as the above image. These are crops from the top right corner with the A7R image down-sized (prior to cropping) to the resolution of the A7S.

    A7S:



    A7R:

    Last edited by lambert; 3rd August 2014 at 23:41.
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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Nice..

    I get my A7S in a couple of hours.

    The only issue with this camera is a profound will to show moire. Look at the marina buildings facade covering mid/right of the photo.

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Nice..

    I get my A7S in a couple of hours.

    The only issue with this camera is a profound will to show moire. Look at the marina buildings facade covering mid/right of the photo.
    Yes, this is less than ideal. However, I often struck this with the A7R and, more so, with my Leica M9. The A7S seems to have a very light AA filter.

    Here's an example from the A7R:


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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Oh yes... moire indeed all over the crop.
    But we want those cameras to be without AA filters for ultimate sharpness.
    We can apply a little reduction in PP.. at least I do for files to be printed.

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    A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Another test shot.

    A7S + FE 24-70, 35mm @ F8:



    Link to full size: https://db.tt/KSUeMfNw
    Last edited by lambert; 4th August 2014 at 21:03.
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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Hello, lambert,

    As a potential buyer of the A7s, can you advise whether the silent shutter option compromises the highest available ISO? With the GX-7, and electronic shutter selected, highest ISO is 3200.

    TIA, KL

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Hello, lambert,

    As a potential buyer of the A7s, can you advise whether the silent shutter option compromises the highest available ISO? With the GX-7, and electronic shutter selected, highest ISO is 3200.

    TIA, KL
    Hi Kit,

    The A7S allows you to use the silent shutter all the way up to ISO 409,600.

    L

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Just an appendix

    WOW.. I just got the camera

    Now to the user manual etc etc...

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Its great with that kit lens! The A7s totally deterred my purchase of the F4 zoom. With the extra ISO usability, that kit lens just turned into a F2.8 for me.

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    Its great with that kit lens! The A7s totally deterred my purchase of the F4 zoom. With the extra ISO usability, that kit lens just turned into a F2.8 for me.
    Which kit lens are you referring to?

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    ...but at 1:1 (100%) pixel view, why would you not expect the A7R with 3X more pixels to look worse than the A7S? The A7R is simply resolving more. Reducing the A7R image to 12MP and then comparing pixel level crops would be more useful.

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    ...but at 1:1 (100%) pixel view, why would you not expect the A7R with 3X more pixels to look worse than the A7S? The A7R is simply resolving more. Reducing the A7R image to 12MP and then comparing pixel level crops would be more useful.
    Exactly. If you read my note you'll see that the A7R image was resized to 12mp prior to cropping. The A7R 100% crop looks terrible at 36mp.

    It would be great if the next generation of the A7R and A7 have sensors that allow the FE 24-70 to perform well across the frame, as it does on the A7S. The A7S has proven this to be a really fine lens.

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Exactly. If you read my note you'll see that the A7R image was resized to 12mp prior to cropping. The A7R 100% crop looks terrible at 36mp.

    It would be great if the next generation of the A7R and A7 have sensors that allow the FE 24-70 to perform well across the frame, as it does on the A7S. The A7S has proven this to be a really fine lens.
    Sorry, I did miss that. That does make this interesting.

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    It would be great if the next generation of the FE 24-70 had performance that allows it to perform well across the a7r frame. FIFY. Just joking, it already does a fine job, except for those wanting every corner pixel to look great in the screen equivalent of a 90 inch print at 24mm FL.

    Inside a 1200 pixel wide window (like images here at getdpi) a 24mp sensor is giving you 20% of the image (6000/1200), and the image on my web PC screen is around 14.5 inches wide, on my monitor.

    So, 1200 being 20% of image width, that is like having a full image screen size of 14.5 x 5 = 72.5 screen inches; the a7r 100% inside a 1200 pixel window is 16.3% the full size image, equivalent to 14.5 inches x 6.13 = 88.9 inches wide. Hardly seems fair..because it is not. This is why DxO normalise sensor comparisons by default, to level the playing field, in full knowledge most users want a common output print size comparison.

    It gets worse though, looking at 'screen print' area: 72.5 x 48.3 = 3500 sq in; and 88.9 x 59.2 = 5263 sq in - so the 24Mp image you are looking at at 100% is equivalent to a print just, as you might guess, 66% the size of the a7r 'screen print'.

    The a7s has pixel dimensions of 4240 x 2832, each dimension is 57.6% those of the a7r - about midway between 50% and 66% of the a7r image - these are PS zoom steps; so take a look at your a7r at both 50% and 66% zoom rather than 100% and see if nasties like moire and that elusive beast shutter shock can be coaxed out of its hole - look, there it is, over there! Nah, need 100% for that..magnification works that way. On lower resolution cameras, you can't see blur in what you cannot see at all.

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    Re: A7S + FE 24-70 vs A7R ... WOW!

    @ lambert

    + The noise level A7R/A7 resized to 12 MP vs A7S is equal until ISO 3200, then A7 kicks off being 1,5 perhaps 2 stops better all way up.
    Still I find the tonality just a tad nicer with the A7S.
    The A7S fun stops at ISO 12800 which shows acceptable noise for WEB use and smaller prints 8" x 10" perhaps 10" x 13" or so.
    A biy larger for B&W

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