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Thread: Flash for Sony?

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Flash for Sony?

    Hey guys,

    I'm looking for a flash with the following specs:

    - Compatible with the A7 and the A99
    - Powerful (good enough to use with a large fast zoom at a wedding)
    - Long lasting battery
    - Can be triggered wirelessly if necessary
    - TTL
    - If possible...not very expensive

    I can see my options with the new multi-interface are kind of limited http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...07+4043133129&


    What would you recommend?
    Last edited by Rawfa; 6th August 2014 at 09:02.

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I did some research and there´s a lot of people complaining about the HVL-F60M overheating. Does anyone know if this is an issue with the HVL-F43M too? Also, what are the main advantages of the HVL-F60M?

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Hey guys,

    I'm looking for a flash with the following specs:

    - Compatible with the A7 and the A99
    - Powerful (good enough to use with a large fast zoom at a wedding)
    - Long lasting battery
    - Can be triggered wirelessly if necessary
    - If possible...not very expensive

    I can see my options with the new multi-interface are kind of limited On Camera Flashes | B&H Photo Video


    What would you recommend?
    well, you did not list TTL as what you need - so just go ahead and buy any flash that can be triggered by a center pin only (and that means you can trigger it wirelessly too) ... w/o TTL you can get that cheap and poweful at the same time

    flash reviews are available @


    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    The Sony 43 will overheat if you push it really hard. Normal use it holds very well but if your banging rapid fire than it will shut down for about 3 minutes.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Thanks, guys.

    I think I might go with the 43...

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    The 43 works on all my cams with TTL. A7r,A6000 and A77II.I think its one of the better choices . Not screamingly to large and gets the job done.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Thanks again, guy. I´ve used the HVL-F20M this weekend and it´s a cool little portable flash that works well if the subject it´s not too far. The refresh times were not too bad on the A99 but it did struggle a bit with the A7...also, when I took a photo with the A99 it fired immediately, but it blinked like 2 or 3 times before it fired with the A7...which as REALLY annoying.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I just bought one for fun but more for my A6000 as my travel cam. Nice to have a little flash handy. I just went out and finally shot my 16-40 F4 Sony for that kit. So far looks to be a nice lens for kicking around but not exactly cheap either.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    as you added TTL to what you want - consider Metz 64... even if you pay B&H prices it is only $50 more than 43 but 1 stop more firepower... if you consider using adapter from old hotshoe your choices for TTL flashes will include big Nissin and Phottix Mitros and probably more 3rd parties
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I've found an F58AM here in Rio for a nice price. Would all everything work using an adapter? Also, I've read some horror stories regarding this flash an overheating...

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    You might want to wait for the Nissin i40, smaller and lighter than the 43M with similar functionality (sans the awesome Sony cobra head design)

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    That is very cool. I've just watched a video in spanish and the flash looks really compact, it's more powerful than the HVL-F20M, it's almost us$150 less expensive than the HVL-F43M and it fits the new Sony models without any adapters!

    I could not find the Sony version anywhere though...

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    That is very cool. I've just watched a video in spanish and the flash looks really compact, it's more powerful than the HVL-F20M, it's almost us$150 less expensive than the HVL-F43M and it fits the new Sony models without any adapters!

    I could not find the Sony version anywhere though...
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nissi...03086046406602

    They just released it for Sony so you might want to wait until September for worldwide availability.
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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I might just do that...unless I find a very good price on a used F43M.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I just wish sony could figure out how to use the flashes AF assist with a mirrorless body such as the A7.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2WK View Post
    I just wish sony could figure out how to use the flashes AF assist with a mirrorless body such as the A7.
    CDAF requires uninterrupted (during the whole focusing timeframe) illumination of some area with more or less solid (patterned beam might not work) light...

    however if you have a PDAF-on-sensor assisted CDAF or purely PDAF-on-sensor then may be there is a chance of firmware fix to use old style AF beams... however concern (patterned beam) is the sheer difference between sensel-sized area for PDAF-on-sensor detector within the frame vs the size of frame area covered by one off-sensor-PDAF-sensor... just my $0.02
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    I might just do that...unless I find a very good price on a used F43M.
    also there is often forgotten Sigma - now they have really cheap flashes (but old style hot shoe = adapter)... EF-610 DG Super ("super" models only)
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    I've found an F58AM here in Rio for a nice price. Would all everything work using an adapter? Also, I've read some horror stories regarding this flash an overheating...
    That's your best bet if F60M is out of price range. Overheating is an issue with any speedlight when shooting at high sync speeds of 1/250s and over continuously. Get an External Flash Battery Pack to mitigate overheating.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    Overheating is an issue with any speedlight when shooting at high sync speeds of 1/250s and over continuously.
    really ? and what do you think is the power output @ HSS = 1/8000
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    really ? and what do you think is the power output @ HSS = 1/8000
    That's what I experienced when shooting in a bright day with a speedlight.

    I guess, it's the same as at 1/250s, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    CDAF requires uninterrupted (during the whole focusing timeframe) illumination of some area with more or less solid (patterned beam might not work) light...

    however if you have a PDAF-on-sensor assisted CDAF or purely PDAF-on-sensor then may be there is a chance of firmware fix to use old style AF beams... however concern (patterned beam) is the sheer difference between sensel-sized area for PDAF-on-sensor detector within the frame vs the size of frame area covered by one off-sensor-PDAF-sensor... just my $0.02
    ...I'm sure there is a reason why it doesn't work. I'm also sure it is something that Sony can overcome. I hope.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    I guess, it's the same as at 1/250s, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
    when you do HSS the exposure time is filled by a number of small (I am talking about the duration, which for a speedlite = power) flash impulses of ~equal (within the margins of design/manufacturing precision) intensity (and small one)... so by defintion you will spend less power with HSS @ 1/8000 vs HSS @ 1/250 (we assume for simplicity that flash is working at max output during those exposures) = less heat emitted... so how you can overheat the flash by having even a lot of x 1/8000 HSS shots beats me... flash impulse with duration of 1/10000-1/15000 is typically the same as shooting in M mode @ 1/64 or lower, I 'd guess that HSS impulses are using 1/128-1/256 power to be of even shorter duration (because you need a lot of them during 1/8000 exposure time, when slit formed by shutter blades travels across the frame)... did you ever manage to overheat your speedlite by shooting @ 1/64, 1/128, 1/256 ratios in M mode ?

    PS: I compared M mode output for Metz 58 in regular mode vs HSS mode - max output in HSS based on given guide numbers is a between 1/8 and 1/4 power settings in regular mode... shooting with max HSS output is like shooting with thoses ratios in regular M mode (or less if you do not need full possible power)... and also the manual specifically says that "Bear in mind that in high-speed flash mode, the guide number of the flash unit is additionally constrained by the shutter speed: The faster the shutter speed, the lower the guide number!", so that will additionally lower for speeds faster than x-sync (1/250 for this Sony).
    Last edited by deejjjaaaa; 9th August 2014 at 14:28.
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2WK View Post
    ...I'm sure there is a reason why it doesn't work. I'm also sure it is something that Sony can overcome. I hope.
    however so far nobody overcome that... CDAF cameras and flashes with focusing assist for off-sensor PDAF exists for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax/Ricoh, Fuji, m43 (Panasonic & Olympus), Samsung, etc... yet nobody managed
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    however so far nobody overcome that... CDAF cameras and flashes with focusing assist for off-sensor PDAF exists for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax/Ricoh, Fuji, m43 (Panasonic & Olympus), Samsung, etc... yet nobody managed
    You would think they could incorporate a ir/ultrasonic rangefinder that just judges distance. No need to focus on the beam.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    deejjjaaaa, will flash power output be different for shutter speeds 1/250 and 1/8000 when it is manually selected to 1/1 power?

    I tried 58AM in a bright day (direct sunlight, 90F+ & ~85% Humidity) at 1/2 power output and continuous shooting at 12 shoots/min, and the flash overheated in 5 minutes or so.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    deejjjaaaa, will flash power output be different for shutter speeds 1/250 and 1/8000 when it is manually selected to 1/1 power?
    I believe that what for example Metz is saying... in M+HSS mode (not TTL+HSS... well TTL is naturally also limited - it is just has additional variables that might affect the test) you will have less power output @ 1/8000 at the identical M ratio... I just compared two shots with my A7 and sony flash = both HSS+M mode 1/1, one 1/8000 and one 1/250... exposure is very different, 1/250 is totally blown... so as promised total power output with HSS depends even in M mode on exposure duration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    I tried 58AM in a bright day (direct sunlight, 90F+ & ~85% Humidity) at 1/2 power output and continuous shooting at 12 shoots/min, and the flash overheated in 5 minutes or so.
    I see - that means that even with lesser power demand @ 1/8000 HSS shots the flash still can't keep up... that is very sad ... probably internal circuitry itself still overheating when providing a lot of small impulses even each impulse is miniscule in power and @ 1/8000 there are way less of them per shot vs @ 1/250...
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Guys, changing the subject a little bit here...what's your advice on a wireless trigger for an F20M and an F43M (or a Nissin i40)?

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Guys, changing the subject a little bit here...what's your advice on a wireless trigger for an F20M and an F43M (or a Nissin i40)?
    Well, I don't use any dedicated flash units on the Sony, only simple manual or auto flash units. So I use a Cactus V2 RF trigger if I'm controlling just one flash, and a Cactus V5 trigger if I'm controlling two or more (because I had them already rather than for any inherent superiority of one over the other...).

    I bought the Cactus V5s once upon a time because they also allow me to use an RF shutter release with an accessory cable for my Olympus cameras; you've just made me think to check and see whether they have a Sony A7 compatible cable.

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 10th August 2014 at 11:36.
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    What I'm waiting for is a TTL pass through transmitter compatible with the newer Sony hot-shoe mount.

    I have a complete set of Phottix TTL pass through radio transmitters and receivers that worked like a charm with the older A900's hot-shoe.

    Pass through TTL allows use of on-camera flash for fill, while triggering a more powerful off-camera directional light … which can be any speed-light with a PC port, or any strobe kit.

    - Marc

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Well, I don't use any dedicate flash units on the Sony, only simple manual or auto flash units. So I use a Cactus V2 RF trigger if I'm controlling just one flash, and a Cactus V5 trigger if I'm controlling two or more (because I had them already rather than for any inherent superiority of one over the other...).

    I bought the Cactus V5s once upon a time because they also allow me to use an RF shutter release with an accessory cable for my Olympus cameras; you've just made me think to check and see whether they have a Sony A7 compatible cable.

    G
    Yes, GadgetInfinity.com has the accessory cable to connect the Cactus V5 with the Sony A7 for RF remote shutter operation. Just ordered one: $15 plus change including shipping. Maybe I'll get some more use out of my V5 set with this... :-)

    G

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Guys, changing the subject a little bit here...what's your advice on a wireless trigger for an F20M and an F43M (or a Nissin i40)?
    I don't think you can trigger off-camera F20M wirelessly (based on my knowledge of F20AM). You can trigger off-camera F43M with on-camera F20M wirelessly at all shutter speeds. Works well as long as F43M can detect light pulse from F20M.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    That is the idea, to use the F20M on camera and trigger the F43M...at least until I get another flash other than the F20M.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    What I'm waiting for is a TTL pass through transmitter compatible with the newer Sony hot-shoe mount.

    I have a complete set of Phottix TTL pass through radio transmitters and receivers that worked like a charm with the older A900's hot-shoe.

    Pass through TTL allows use of on-camera flash for fill, while triggering a more powerful off-camera directional light … which can be any speed-light with a PC port, or any strobe kit.

    - Marc
    Doesn't phottix ttl work with the new mi hotshoe with the ADPMAA adapter?

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by ken_vs_ryu View Post
    Doesn't phottix ttl work with the new mi hotshoe with the ADPMAA adapter?
    some people can't stand using adapters and want native shoe
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by ken_vs_ryu View Post
    Doesn't phottix ttl work with the new mi hotshoe with the ADPMAA adapter?
    I'm not against using adapters. I carry an older mount type 58 from when I shot with an A900 to use if my A99's 60 flash goes down.

    However, as soon as you use an adapter on the A99, then the pass through Phottix, then the flash … it gets very wobbly and is just asking to bust something including the flash's hotshoe mount which looks rather expensive to get fixed.

    I'll wait for a direct mount.

    - Marc

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'm not against using adapters. I carry an older mount type 58 from when I shot with an A900 to use if my A99's 60 flash goes down.

    However, as soon as you use an adapter on the A99, then the pass through Phottix, then the flash … it gets very wobbly and is just asking to bust something including the flash's hotshoe mount which looks rather expensive to get fixed.

    I'll wait for a direct mount.

    - Marc
    with new phottix flash you do not need transmitter - flash is radio transmitter... so it is camera -> adapter -> flash... http://flashhavoc.com/phottix-mitros...sony-released/
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    with new phottix flash you do not need transmitter - flash is radio transmitter... so it is camera -> adapter -> flash... PHOTTIX – Mitros+ for Sony Released | FLASH HAVOC
    This is cool!

    Why do you need a separate adapter? It looks like the shoe is the newer Sony mount.

    TTL flash on camera, controlling off-camera TTL flash … Like Canon's system.

    Update:
    OOPs, just read the fine print on the site … it's the older hot shoe … a non starter for me.

    I'll wait.

    - Marc

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Me too
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    The adapter + wireless ttl transmitter is certainly lighter than Sony flashes - why the worry? Unless you really need on camera flash.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by ken_vs_ryu View Post
    The adapter + wireless ttl transmitter is certainly lighter than Sony flashes - why the worry? Unless you really need on camera flash.
    Each of our needs are different.

    When shooting a wedding (which is my primary use of Sony cameras), the speed-light connection to the camera is the most vulnerable part. Back when Canon made their flashes with plastic mounts, breakage was not unusual … no, actually it was all to common.

    The more connections from flash to the hot-shoe the more vulnerable it gets. I had to be very careful when using the Phottix transmitter on the A900 … and that was using the more secure older Minolta style hot-shoe connection.

    Hopefully, Phottix will deliver a radio enabled speed-light with the newer Sony multi-functional foot.

    The way I use these is on-camera pass through TTL for fill, and the radio function to trigger the key off-camera light … either another speed-light (not often because of thermal shut down), or more often a portable strobe (which never shuts down under heavy use). Great combination for mobile, fast paced work like a wedding or event … even location portrait work.

    - Marc
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Little doubt....does the A7 "pre-flashes" with all flashes?? I mean, I use the same flash on the A99 and and it fires straight away, then I use it on the A7 and it pre-fires like 1 to 3 shots before actually shooting. Which makes the A7 useless with any flash for ME (impossible to use it like this at weddings).

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I don't have a A99 but ETTL relies on pre-flash to calculate the amount of flash duration. I expect the A99 is just faster. This is particularity a problem with the A7r.

    I primarily use a manual flash like the Godox 360 for that reason. No pre-fllash and no delay. I expect you could also use a flash with an Automatic function instead of ETTL.

    Jim

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Jim, which flash are you using with your A7R? At the moment there are only 4 flashes with the mult interface mount that allow for TTL on the A7 series.

    I've also read that the F43M uses the red AF-assist beam for pre-flash instead.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I have read lots of complaints about the F60M overheating after 5 minutes. I thought getting the F43M it would be a safer option and it more suits what i need it for.

    I was shooting an event tonight and right as the organizer asked for a pic i noticed it was shutdown due to overheating. Lucky i had other options but it took about 5 minutes to recover. It happened a good hour into the event though and there had just been some speeches so it seems nowhere near the complaints of F60M and more normal behaviour. I was a little surprised but maybe this will help others out there.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I ended up pre-ordering 2 Nissin i40s for Sony. They´re more compact, less expenssive than the F43M and hopefully won´t overhear as much.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slingers View Post
    I have read lots of complaints about the F60M overheating after 5 minutes. I thought getting the F43M it would be a safer option and it more suits what i need it for.

    I was shooting an event tonight and right as the organizer asked for a pic i noticed it was shutdown due to overheating. Lucky i had other options but it took about 5 minutes to recover. It happened a good hour into the event though and there had just been some speeches so it seems nowhere near the complaints of F60M and more normal behaviour. I was a little surprised but maybe this will help others out there.
    I think it depends on the shooting conditions, frequency of shots in a burst, and the level of light required.

    I've had mine shut down in hot summer conditions, when shooting bursts at or near full power to overcome severely backlit subjects. However, to be fair, so did my pal's Canon flash, almost at the same time. Took over ten minutes to recover, and then they shut down again a few minutes later. They need to completely cool down to continue as usual. Doesn't hurt to remove/replace the batteries which can get red hot and slow down the reset.

    Other than that, I've never had the FM60 shut down because I usually just use it for a wink of fill in most cases … but I would never use them in place of strobes in any studio setting, or in a modifier that would require more output … learned that the hard way … a mistake I won't repeat.

    - Marc
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    Super Duper
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I'm not sure if the issue is over-heating as much as how low the thermal threshold is set. If I recall correctly, you could shut off the thermal protection on the Nikon flash.

    If there is an issue of over-heating it appears to be present to one degree or another with all modern speed-lights … not just Sony.

    Perhaps technically pushing the envelope coupled with the use of Lithium batteries has made it necessary to lower the thermal threshold to keep from frying these units and dealing with a zillion warranty repairs?

    - Marc
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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I think it depends on the shooting conditions, frequency of shots in a burst, and the level of light required.
    Words of wisdom!
    Any speed light can overheat under certain conditions. It's good that there are safety measures in place to prevent hardware failure.
    One just has to know the speedlight limits and move on to more powerful lights if conditions require so.
    If you are abusing a speedlight, a battery booster and a set of fresh spare batteries will be quite handy. The former will speed up recycle time (up to x2), the latter will reduce down time when overheating eventually happens.

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    I have been using the Sony HVL-F43M with an A7r for the past 10 months. Coming from Nikon (and still using a D3x with SB800s) I can say Sony's F43M performs equally well, short of lacking some remote control capabilities.

    Unfortunately, a week ago I lost the connector protector caps for the F43M and A7r flash shoe. Neither I or my dealer is able to obtain them from Sony Canada.
    Considering all the contacts are now exposed I'm concerned it may not be long before they become damaged...

    Does anyone here know where I can get several of these "connector protector caps"?
    Cheers
    Michael

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    Re: Flash for Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by miklar View Post
    I have been using the Sony HVL-F43M with an A7r for the past 10 months. Coming from Nikon (and still using a D3x with SB800s) I can say Sony's F43M performs equally well, short of lacking some remote control capabilities.

    Unfortunately, a week ago I lost the connector protector caps for the F43M and A7r flash shoe. Neither I or my dealer is able to obtain them from Sony Canada.
    Considering all the contacts are now exposed I'm concerned it may not be long before they become damaged...

    Does anyone here know where I can get several of these "connector protector caps"?
    Cheers
    Michael
    might try this.

    Flash Hot Shoe Cap Cover For SONY A850 A750 FA-SHC1AM B

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