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Thread: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

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    Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    During browsing of Fuji X thread I observerd this look / rendering that seems to be common to many of samples that I have, not being able to pin down exact root behind it, started labeling in my brain as "Fuji colors".

    After I have finished browsing my knee jerk response was "I want to buy Fuji X" but then I started thinking would that make any sense because I have started wondering how much of such looks is due to "look by certain hardware" and how much is due to manufacturer's choices of tone mapping, curves, etc during RAW development, similar to choices "film emulation" software does.

    In turn I started wondering, if it's the later, can such look be recreated/reproduced during RAW development of files from any camera, whether A7R or some else, and if yes how to do it.

    What are your thoughts / experiences with this?
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    one of many approaches that can be used = sail2ithaki - How to make a "correction" profile
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    one of many approaches that can be used = sail2ithaki - How to make a "correction" profile
    Thank you, but (please correct me if I am wrong) you are pointing to article on how to color calibrate your output, not how to get output from say A7R to match output from Fuji XT1. Two completely different things.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
    I am one of those shooters who prefers using a one-fits-all tool, in my case LR. Basically, I'm lazy (or, put kindly, interested in efficiency). I have certain camera/lens combos that produce the files which, coupled with my inventory of presets, deliver what I want by way of color, "look," etc. What I don't do is try to get different "looks" from the same camera/lens by varying workflow, developers, plug-ins, what-have-you. I probably should but, my time being limited, I prefer to shoot more and process less, I guess.
    Thank you but topic is not "do you personally care" but "is my assessment correct and if yes how to go after it".

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    ...I have started wondering how much of such looks is due to "look by certain hardware" and how much is due to manufacturer's choices of tone mapping, curves, etc during RAW development, similar to choices "film emulation" software does.

    In turn I started wondering, if it's the later, can such look be recreated/reproduced during RAW development of files from any camera, whether A7R or some else...
    No, you can't necessarily map the color rendered by one camera to that rendered by another. The spectral transmission properties of the CFA determine which colors the camera will be able to differentiate, and these vary from one camera to another. If one camera cannot differentiate a given pair of colors while another can, no amount of correction applied to the files from the first camera will enable you to make them match the files from the second.

    How much this theoretical principle will affect you in practice will depend on the colors of the subjects you photograph and of the lighting under which you photograph them, on how far apart the two cameras' CFA's are, on your own perception of subtle color distinctions, and on which distinctions you care about.

    As the discussion of Sensitivity Metamerism Index on the DxOMark website puts it:

    Digital processing permits changing color rendering at will, but whether the camera can or cannot exactly and accurately reproduce the scene colors is intrinsic to the sensor response and independent of the raw converter.

    Color sensitivity - DxOMark
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    No, you can't necessarily map the color rendered by one camera to that rendered by another. The spectral transmission properties of the CFA determine which colors the camera will be able to differentiate, and these vary from one camera to another. If one camera cannot differentiate a given pair of colors while another can, no amount of correction applied to the files from the first camera will enable you to make them match the files from the second.

    How much this theoretical principle will affect you in practice will depend on the colors of the subjects you photograph and of the lighting under which you photograph them, on how far apart the two cameras' CFA's are, on your own perception of subtle color distinctions, and on which distinctions you care about.

    As the discussion of Sensitivity Metamerism Index on the DxOMark website puts it:

    Digital processing permits changing color rendering at will, but whether the camera can or cannot exactly and accurately reproduce the scene colors is intrinsic to the sensor response and independent of the raw converter.

    Color sensitivity - DxOMark
    Well put..

    Add to that the fact that the color pixels are arranged very differently on the Fuji sensor than on others, so it is probably more difficult to equal the rendering of Fuji cameras than that of say Nikon cameras with the A7r.

    BTW : different developing software will render different results.

    Personally, I have often found that Adobe is adding too much yellow and their skies are too much cyan. At first I thought it was due to the body not being calibrated correctly. So I got the XRite color checker passport... But this didn't change anything (in fact, I read later that Adobe was collaborating with XRite for colors.. So no surprise). It may just be a question of cultural taste, because I have often heard Americans complaining that there were magenta cast in their skies.
    Things aren't writen in stone. Before the last version of ACR/LR, i was happier with the way LR was rendering the A7r colors, provided I avoided the adobe standard preset. With the last version (5.4) they seem to have added more yellow to the camera presets too. I prefer the colors of DXO or C1, but on the other side it makes my workflow more complicated and I like the tone sliders of LR, so I'm constantly returning to LR too, in spite of my dislike for their colors.

    I don't like playing with the camera calibration : when you begin touching something it may get you some colors right in your landscape pictures, but may disturb other colors in other pictures, for example for skin tones etc..
    Last edited by Annna T; 14th August 2014 at 01:55.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    I somewhat face this issue every time I process a wedding.

    I may have up to 5 different cameras and a myriad of lenses in the mix. A Sony A900, or A99, or A7R, or my Leica S2, or a M9 (CCDs), and my assistant's Fuji, Oly or their Canon or Nikon DSLR.

    The objective then becomes to TRY and mitigate the differences so there is some sort of over-all flow without obvious bumps from one image to the next.

    Frankly, there are too many variables to be exacting about it. How the cameras initially render color, the differences in optical performance, the vast spread of lighting situations, etc.

    The best I've been able to do is strike a compromise in the service of some consistency. I'm fairly sure that I'd fail at that if I chose one camera/lens system and tried to doggedly match it with the others.

    The only really consistent ones of the bunch are the CCD Leicas. The S2 and M9 images differ very little, and it is easy to process them to be indistinguishable any differences being attributable to shear resolution and DOF rending between 35mm and MFD, but identical in color and hue.

    - Marc

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    If I look through my printed albums of film there is a similarity to most of the images.

    As I page through my digital prints is a cacophony of colours and tones all over the place. You can see the change in cameras as you page through.

    BTW: I have just ordered an A7. Reason is, I very much like the DR and look of the colours and tones of the Sony.
    Its not that I don't like the Fuji, (they are probably the best jpging cameras ever), its that I wanted the sensor size of the A7 and the rendering was also very acceptable.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Everything affects color along each part of the imaging chain, and you add other parameters in choice of color space and software, gamuts of cameras, etc. I have never found it easy to match between models, especially if there has been a large jump in some aspects - like DR. Older CCD cameras were also quite different to today's CMOS chips.

    At the end of it alI, you need to have enough experience and control of color management and processing and tone handling generally to get them close to each other, as all factors affect the others. You end up with your personal 'house style' with some variations for images from different source files, small but usually fairly noticeable, to the practitioner anyway.

    Quite a bit can be controlled by choice of gear. I shoot an RX1 and a7r, and have used an a99 so these share very similar colour engines and gamuts and sensor response, noise patterning, and work up much the same in ACR. Some lenses - to risk starting an argument - make life easier, Zeiss and Leica have strong signatures usually common in each range, so if you use a few ZE or R lenses they add more common ground. In fact this is one reason to stick with your tried and known setup - to help color consistency, esp if it's very important to your work. More productive and efficient too.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    Thank you, but (please correct me if I am wrong) you are pointing to article on how to color calibrate your output, not how to get output from say A7R to match output from Fuji XT1.
    you can create a correction profile to use in PS to get the colors closer to what you receive from the target camera...
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    Everything affects color along each part of the imaging chain, and you add other parameters in choice of color space and software, gamuts of cameras, etc. I have never found it easy to match between models, especially if there has been a large jump in some aspects - like DR. Older CCD cameras were also quite different to today's CMOS chips.

    At the end of it alI, you need to have enough experience and control of color management and processing and tone handling generally to get them close to each other, as all factors affect the others. You end up with your personal 'house style' with some variations for images from different source files, small but usually fairly noticeable, to the practitioner anyway.

    Quite a bit can be controlled by choice of gear. I shoot an RX1 and a7r, and have used an a99 so these share very similar colour engines and gamuts and sensor response, noise patterning, and work up much the same in ACR. Some lenses - to risk starting an argument - make life easier, Zeiss and Leica have strong signatures usually common in each range, so if you use a few ZE or R lenses they add more common ground. In fact this is one reason to stick with your tried and known setup - to help color consistency, esp if it's very important to your work. More productive and efficient too.
    a lot of text - where is a practical advise though about how to do it ?
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Add to that the fact that the color pixels are arranged very differently on the Fuji sensor than on others, so it is probably more difficult to equal the rendering of Fuji cameras than that of say Nikon cameras with the A7r.
    dear, you kind of forgot that Fuji makes a regular bayer camera with the same colors as x-trans...
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    dear, you kind of forgot that Fuji makes a regular bayer camera with the same colors as x-trans...
    Do you still see the same so-called "Fuji color" with the X-A1? Otherwise, it's a moot point.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    No, you can't necessarily map the color rendered by one camera to that rendered by another. The spectral transmission properties of the CFA determine which colors the camera will be able to differentiate, and these vary from one camera to another. If one camera cannot differentiate a given pair of colors while another can, no amount of correction applied to the files from the first camera will enable you to make them match the files from the second.
    If for a second we ignore differentiation ability question is "why not"? There is obviously a way to "color correct" both camera A and B to let's call it "reality camera". Then task of matching A to B would be converting A to "reality" and then applying "from B to reality" transformation in reverse.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    you can create a correction profile to use in PS to get the colors closer to what you receive from the target camera...
    How exactly, please?

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiepphotog View Post
    Do you still see the same so-called "Fuji color" with the X-A1? Otherwise, it's a moot point.
    you do
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    How exactly, please?
    read the instructions and think
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    There is obviously a way to "color correct" both camera A and B to let's call it "reality camera".
    No, there isn't. To borrow a bit more from the DxOMark discussion of Sensitivity Metamerism Index (emphasis added):

    The underlying physics is that a sensor can distinguish exactly the same colors as the average human eye, if and only if the spectral responses of the sensor can be obtained by a linear combination of the eye cone responses. These conditions are called Luther-Ives conditions, and in practice, these never occur. There are objects that a sensor sees as having certain colors, while the eye sees the same objects differently, and the reverse is also true.

    Similarly, you cannot be sure of being able to correct two different cameras to match each other, unless one camera's RGB color response at the level of the CFA can be expressed as a linear combination of the component RGB responses of the other.

    That doesn't mean you can't ever get a match that's "good enough"; depending on what you're looking for, it might well be possible. But strictly speaking, in general, you cannot count on being able to achieve an exact match.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    On Fuji colors and always at the risk of giving offence, I find them far less appealing than what Sony is giving us these days. Quite poor separation of tones with each hue area - so for example greens all tend to look the same across the range of luminance, a form of posterisation. Subjects all seem to have a 'look at me' quality to them, as a result!

    Many spend years learning PS to pick up ways of separating color tones in Fuji's excellent E6 emulsions using PS's many color controls, so it's ironic that the company is gathering plaudits for its very similarly afflicted digital output.

    Sony's world is much more distinguished and photorealistic in color than the garish yellow/green hybrid tones that populate Fuji's world view so fully. Their color is quite unsophisticated, and for nature shots, often cartoonish and Disney-like. There is more subtlety in a Ridley Scott sci-fi movie!

    It is also very popular so I hasten to add that color preference is very personal, as we all see differently, and there are good reasons to believe this applies especially to color perception. I would never post this on the Fuji forum of course, it would start a bun fight.

    On Fuji generally, why so many B&Ws if the color is so popular for users? They are running at maybe 60-65% in the hundreds of images I checked just now. OK, this is all for Sony users only.

    It's somewhat easier in PS to mimic a primitive color response - so going from Sony to Fuji is not as hard as trying to recreate subtle lifelike tones from the narrow gamut of Fuji's output. The best control is Selective Color (selcol) which lets you mix final color after you see how PS renders overall tones in a PSD or TIFF file - and by the look of so many images in the X thread, you need to go heavy on the Hue/Saturation (huesat) control and narrow range contrast (can do with luminance masks). Some work in LAB, others don't like what it does to the files.

    It's one case where working in sRGB is probably better, as you want to *reduce* color gamut by clipping, not expand it, as other makers are trying to do - they want to show more colors, not fewer! A monitor with good color response, calibrated well, is a big help too.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    For me I'll buy cameras for the color they provide and what looks good to my eye. One reason is post processing for me is not where I'm making my money. pros make money shooting in general spending hours in post is something I try to avoid on the whole. Sure tweaking out a red bias or yellow bias coming off the sensor you want to build a preset or calibrate that stuff out but if I want a Fuji look which is more yellowish or greenish you maybe able to get close but never accurate to it . I'm not a big fan if Fuji color but that's me. To me the best cam to look more CCD sensor is Sony. I'm coming from MF and it seems the sony comes fairly close to MF CCD. MF has better tonal range though. Guess my point here is I'm trying not to work my butt off in post. Just buy what looks good to your eye and software that matches your vision. Software matters a lot
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    On Fuji colors and always at the risk of giving offence, I find them far less appealing than what Sony is giving us these days.
    philip_pj, at the risk of giving offence, this thread was meant to discuss technical topic, it was not meant for voting whose colors one likes better nor for cheerleading brand X and poohpooing brand B.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Guess my point here is I'm trying not to work my butt off in post.
    Good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    Thank you but topic is not "do you personally care" but "is my assessment correct and if yes how to go after it".

    But you asked:

    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    During browsing of Fuji X thread I observers this look / rendering that seems to be common to many of samples that I have, not being able to pin down exact root behind it, started labeling in my brain as "Fuji colors".

    After I have finished browsing my knee jerk response was "I want to buy Fuji X" but then I started thinking would that make any sense because I have started wondering how much of such looks is due to "look by certain hardware" and how much is due to manufacturer's choices of tone mapping, curves, etc during RAW development, similar to choices "film emulation" software does.

    In turn I started wondering, if it's the later, can such look be recreated/reproduced during RAW development of files from any camera, whether A7R or some else, and if yes how to do it.

    What are your thoughts / experiences with this?
    Perhaps you need to be more careful when posting your questions if you want to control the responses so tightly?

    You asked "what people's thoughts and experiences were with this". If their experience was "it can't, and here is why.", that begs just as much explanation behind that opinion as it would if the answer was "Yes it can, and here is how to do it".

    Just because you personally may not like the response based on a member's experience and personal observations of "Fuji, Canon, etc." (i.e. Sony, Leica, Nikon, Oly, Panasonic, ), doesn't mean it is not a valid answer for the group to consider.

    IMHO, it is an inevitable consequence when discussing engineering and software type questions that effect a subject that is fraught with personal artistic interpretations or, as Guy and I have indicted, the practical consequences on time and expense.

    - Marc
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Perhaps you need to be more careful when posting your questions if you want to control the responses so tightly?

    You asked "what people's thoughts and experiences were with this".
    He asked "can such look be recreated/reproduced during RAW development of files from any camera, whether A7R or some else, and if yes how to do it.

    What are your thoughts / experiences with this? "

    what most of people posted is totally useless blah-blah-blah (yes, including your postings indeed)... valid points posted were 1) that if 2 cameras have at least one pair of colors which first separates and second does not then you can not match colors absolutely exactly and 2) I posted a link to a method (from Iliah Borg's - /collaborator in RPP, rawdigger, frv/ - blog) how to more or less match the output
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    what most of people posted is totally useless blah-blah-blah (yes, including your postings indeed)... valid points posted were 1) that if 2 cameras have at least one pair of colors which first separates and second does not then you can not match colors absolutely exactly and 2) I posted a link to a method (from Iliah Borg's - /collaborator in RPP, rawdigger, frv/ - blog) how to more or less match the output
    This is an internet forum. Trying to control where people want to take it is a lot like p***ing in the wind.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    He asked "can such look be recreated/reproduced during RAW development of files from any camera, whether A7R or some else, and if yes how to do it.

    What are your thoughts / experiences with this? "

    what most of people posted is totally useless blah-blah-blah (yes, including yours indeed)... valid points posted were 1) that if 2 cameras have at least one pair of colors which first separates and second does not then you can not match colors absolutely exactly and 2) I posed a link to a method (Iliah Borg's blog) how to more or less match the output
    Okay. Nice to know that so many respected and valuable member's thoughts, ideas and experiences are "Useless blah, blah, blah".

    Not the usual friendly tone and manner of this forum where no thought is right or wrong, just something to consider, or not, at will without all the dismissive huffing and puffing.

    - Marc
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Okay. Nice to know that so many respected and valuable member's thoughts, ideas and experiences are "Useless blah, blah, blah".
    being "respected and valuable" does not mean that every posting is automatically full of sense... if it is a **** I call it what it is, sorry - not born in USA, not fond of Dale Carnegie.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    being "respected and valuable" does not mean that every posting is automatically full of sense... if it is a **** I call it what it is, sorry - not born in USA, not fond of Dale Carnegie.
    Not full of sense according to you, not everyone.

    Apparently, you aren't fond of common courtesy either.

    By all means, continue whizzing into the wind.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Perhaps you need to be more careful when posting your questions if you want to control the responses so tightly?

    You asked "what people's thoughts and experiences were with this". If their experience was "it can't, and here is why.", that begs just as much explanation behind that opinion as it would if the answer was "Yes it can, and here is how to do it".

    Just because you personally may not like the response based on a member's experience and personal observations of "Fuji, Canon, etc." (i.e. Sony, Leica, Nikon, Oly, Panasonic, ), doesn't mean it is not a valid answer for the group to consider.

    IMHO, it is an inevitable consequence when discussing engineering and software type questions that effect a subject that is fraught with personal artistic interpretations or, as Guy and I have indicted, the practical consequences on time and expense.

    - Marc
    I feel I was as careful and clear as one can get because it can't get much clearer and simpler for comprehension than "can such look be recreated/reproduced during RAW development of files from any camera, whether A7R or some else, and if yes how to do it". phillip_pj's post did not offer anything on that topic.

    Also, his post was IMHO nothing but berating of Fuji and cheerleading Sony. Words like "unsophisticated, and for nature shots, often cartoonish and Disney-like. There is more subtlety in a Ridley Scott sci-fi movie!" do not offer anything of value (maybe to you but not to me), and make you wonder where they come from, especially when check of Imatest results indicates anything but. Please take a look at IR's measurements of A7R vs. XT1:

    Sony A7R Review - Exposure
    Fujifilm X-T1 Review - Exposure
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/came...colorerror.png
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...colorerror.png

    Combine that with his history of "Sony-Sony-rah-rah-rah" kind of posts, both here and elsewhere, and I think it should be rather clear to you I was not trying to tightly control answers but am getting annoyed at cheerleading squad trying to (ab)use this thread.

    So maybe it's you that needs to be more careful when posting so you can avoid jumping down somebody's throat without assuring it's founded first.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    I feel I was as careful and clear as one can get because it can't get much clearer and simpler for comprehension than "can such look be recreated/reproduced during RAW development of files from any camera, whether A7R or some else, and if yes how to do it". phillip_pj's post did not offer anything on that topic.

    Also, his post was IMHO nothing but berating of Fuji and cheerleading Sony. Words like "unsophisticated, and for nature shots, often cartoonish and Disney-like. There is more subtlety in a Ridley Scott sci-fi movie!" do not offer anything of value (maybe to you but not to me), and make you wonder where they come from, especially when check of Imatest results indicates anything but. Please take a look at IR's measurements of A7R vs. XT1:

    Sony A7R Review - Exposure
    Fujifilm X-T1 Review - Exposure
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/came...colorerror.png
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...colorerror.png

    Combine that with his history of "Sony-Sony-rah-rah-rah" kind of posts, both here and elsewhere, and I think it should be rather clear to you I was not trying to tightly control answers but am getting annoyed at cheerleading squad trying to (ab)use this thread.

    So maybe it's you that needs to be more careful when posting so you can avoid jumping down somebody's throat without assuring it's founded first.
    Thank you, now it is clearer.

    You are annoyed at the Sony oriented response on the Sony portion of this forum.

    Duh!


    - Marc
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thank you, now it is clearer.

    You are annoyed at the Sony oriented response on the Sony portion of this forum.

    Duh!


    - Marc
    I see you are not interested in logic but in twisting words (or you ran out of chill pills so you are just in the bad mood and looking for an excuse to argue with somebody?).

    Regardless of that I hope you are capable of realizing "bashing of Fuji in Sony forum" can not be disguised and dismissed as "Sony oriented response in Sony forum".

    P.S. "XYZ oriented response in XYZ forum"? Whatever is that supposed to mean? Is that how they call fanboi shouts nowadays?

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve P. View Post
    This is an internet forum. Trying to control where people want to take it is a lot like p***ing in the wind.
    I suppose I could write it again but what's the point? May as well just quote myself.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    The Moderators, in their wisdom, provided other forums for discussing cross branded technical subjects such as yours.

    Perhaps you'd get a better response there?

    - Marc

    BTW, NO I am not interested in your brand of personally dismissive autocratic logic, and really do not care if you are "annoyed" by other's enthusiasm for the gear they chose to express themselves with on a forum dedicated to that choice. So, give it a rest.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The Moderators, in their wisdom, provided other forums for discussing cross branded technical subjects such as yours.

    Perhaps you'd get a better response there?

    - Marc

    BTW, NO I am not interested in your brand of personally dismissive autocratic logic, and really do not care if you are "annoyed" by other's enthusiasm for the gear they chose to express themselves with on a forum dedicated to that choice. So, give it a rest.
    I will repeat my plea that you start thinking through before posting (thank you in advance!) because:

    1. It is obvious I am asking how to match colors from Fuji with my Sony. This is a Sony forum. Thus this _does_ belong into Sony forum.

    2. Bashing of other brands is not "enthusiasm for gear one chose". Actually, it is my understanding brand bashing is against GetDPI rules in any of the GetDPI forums.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Uiii ... some harsh remarks fell here.

    If a softer tone would come back to this thread I would be very interested carrying out a small experiment Zoran and I agreed to make.

    Jumping over all the initial conversations leading up to this agreement it is about trying to get the output from an A7s looking like the output of my X100 MP Bayer camera.

    Short prelude: I have two X100 cameras which color palette I like very much. Lately I bought an A7s in the hope to replace the X100's as a low pixel count workhorse. No doubt the X100's will die for me one day and it is probably becoming more and more difficult to maintain a working sample.
    I've tried to develop the Sony RAW files pulling the colors towards the X100 output, but so far without any satisfying outcome.

    So in all simplicity I agreed with Zoran to shoot a scene with both cameras and make the files available on my Dropbox. A link will be posted here when I am done. (will not be within the first weeks time, I am travelling).
    Zoran would then make his try and perhaps see what could be done by use of filters of any sort i.e. DXO's FilmPack or Alien Skin's Exposure . Something I did not try yet.

    I use ACR/PS in my workflow but have disregarded this as an influencer since the signature this SW leads to are applied all kind of camera files processed by it.

    About my shots I find it best to post the RAW files and I will try to match the two OOC histograms to be even. Set the cameras as even I can leading to the closest color and contrast match I can muster OOC.

    Perhaps for most this experiment is not interesting at all? How many still shoots the old X100 and how many wish a brand new camera from a different brand to perform like a almost vintage camera? I can't think of many.
    Please note this is not about the X-TRANS sensor output which is a completely different kettle of fish.

    Again. Hope the continuation of this thread will be kept in a nice tone. Any other way, I'm out.

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    You might be able to reproduce a certain "look" but in my experience what works for one image doesnt necesarly work for another image with different WB, color, light.
    For me much easier to use a camera/raw processor combination which works in the first step color wise.
    I think specially the Fuji colors do look different, some like it a lot, I sometimes found them washed out.
    If I would like them I would probably just use a Fuji camera.
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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    Hi Anna T

    We have to stay clear the Fuji Colors I am addressing are NOT those from the X-TRANS sensor but those produced by the 12 MP Bayer sensor in the X100.
    Perhaps it was also what you meant?
    As I wrote over at the Loxia Thread I haven't had any success using all my skills with ACR/PS twisting the A7s colors even near to the Fuji's.
    It is of course not such a terrible problem, if I can't or somebody else can't... then it is just like that.
    There are many camera signatures over the digital age that cannot easy be replicated.

    This little experiment is just for fun and as a start point I have my prejudices it can't be done to the point. I hope nobody will start sweating over this, it is merely just me who tried if I could do it and that I have a certain love affaire with the mojo the X100 sensor and engine deliver.
    I also replied to Zoran applying filters or filmemolusion vintage is not my cup of tea. But let's see where this takes us

    I will leave the topic for now. I'm leaving for a 7 days Photo Safari

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    Re: Fuji/Canon/etc colors?

    I'm looking forward to attempting to match the colours and seeing the results we all come up with.

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