Zeiss FE Mount Manual Lens Rumors

[sven]

But if Sony comes out with a killer A mount with over 36 mpx than I could be in trouble. QUOTE]

I do not believe the rumors about a new Sony A mount camera with more than 36 mp. It will be most likely the same sensor in the A7r or D810. Reason being, if Sony had a higher resolution sensor, Nikon would have taken advantage and released it with the D810. It does not make economic sense for Sony to release the sensor first, as Nikon is not going to upgrade the D810 any time soon. Sony just does not have the required high end market share. I could be wrong but thats just my thinking.

OTOH, it makes sense to incorporate the 50mp MF sensor in one of the sony cameras but it is not going to be the A mount as they need to create a new MF camera. Again far fetched but possible. But We can remain hopeful

Josh

 

[Annna T]

Part of the Zeiss heritage is a certain warmth and character in colour signature.
If they manage to sprinkle some of that fairy dust over the Loxia line you might be back sooner than you think.

It is funy that you say that. At the time I was using the Zeiss Contax G lenses, they had a reputation for being very sharp, with few distortion and a very neutral color rendering, but they exhibited a rather busy bokey and a relative important purple fringing. I never thought of them as being warmer than others. For me they were offering a perfect example of German "Sachlichkeit".

May be it depends upon the lens line considered ? I think that their SLR lenses were rather neutral too, but may be that the lenses they built for the Contax 645 were warmer and those for other medium format as well ?

 

[dwood]

Sony just does not have the required high end market share.
Josh

Sony has been chipping away at gaining a foothold in the high-end since the introduction of the a900. The a7x series, especially the a7r, is the latest example of their resolve to be a major player. I would not at all be surprised to see the next leap forward in this strategy sooner rather than later. Unlike Nikon and Canon, Sony doesn't seem content to respond to what they other guys are doing. They're aggressive, and they're driving the bus.

 

[G43]

Part of the Zeiss heritage is a certain warmth and character in colour signature.
If they manage to sprinkle some of that fairy dust over the Loxia line you might be back sooner than you think.

This I could hope for. The Fuji X100 color palette is to me precious with its gentleness and pastel color space. I can't twist that out of neither the 7s or my Oly EM1, but the EM1 shows colors which I think is close to unmatched by any, IMO, though still not X100 colors.
What I find most cool about the 7s is an ILCE camera body, its clean files and stealth. Though not as stealth as the X100 which also sports a silent mode.

*sprinkle some of that fairy dust over the Loxia*

 

[G43]

But if Sony comes out with a killer A mount with over 36 mpx than I could be in trouble. QUOTE]

OTOH, it makes sense to incorporate the 50mp MF sensor in one of the sony cameras but it is not going to be the A mount as they need to create a new MF camera. Again far fetched but possible. But We can remain hopeful

Josh

Josh and Guy.. wouldn't you think 50 MP crammed down on a 24 x 36 mm sensor would require more than exquisite shooting discipline? It would start to be very sensitive to the slightest shake of any kind.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Josh and Guy.. wouldn't you think 50 MP crammed down on a 24 x 36 mm sensor would require more than exquisite shooting discipline? It would start to be very sensitive to the slightest shake of any kind.

No question. Bring it on

This would not be a street cam at all and would not expect it to be anything less than going for the jugular on IQ. So paramount technic would be a prerequisite to get the most out of it not to mention great glass which I think we have some out there today . It may not be native glass but some Art glass and Otus glass and others could handle a 50mpx sensor.

The thing is there will always be sluts like me trying to maximize the best image quality. Over 75 percent of the folks on this forum alone will go the same direction. Just look at all the hobbyist shooting MF right now. Believe me after 24 workshops that I have taught at they have far better gear than me alone. So there is a market it may not be a D800 or a 5dIII market in size. But Sony is used to playing the underdog and now they are hungry for market share. They have become very aggressive lately and nothing would surprise me coming from there camp. To top that off they have a full line of A glass today.

 

[sven]

There is very little doubt that Sony will stop at 36 mp FF but I am not sure it will happen this year. It will demand first rate shooting techniques to get optimal IQ.

I was not talking about FF but the current 50 MP 44 x 33 MF sensor that Sony already makes. I do think that there is a good possibility of Sony using it in one of their cameras. Question is which one. A new MF mount with adapter to use FE or A lenses albeit in cropped mode? A new MF system with Zeiss lenses?

 

[Steve P.]

It is funy that you say that. At the time I was using the Zeiss Contax G lenses, they had a reputation for being very sharp, with few distortion and a very neutral color rendering, but they exhibited a rather busy bokey and a relative important purple fringing. I never thought of them as being warmer than others. For me they were offering a perfect example of German "Sachlichkeit".

May be it depends upon the lens line considered ? I think that their SLR lenses were rather neutral too, but may be that the lenses they built for the Contax 645 were warmer and those for other medium format as well ?

You may be right about considerations of different lens lines because my experience with Zeiss has been primarily with VM and ZM lenses and I felt the Voigtlanders seemed cooler and more neutral than Zeiss. I once shot for a short time with a ZF.2. 2/35mm and I felt the Zeiss lens displayed beautifully rich and saturated colours, and that the Nikon lenses were a little more neutral. I've never had the pleasure of the Contax lenses, so couldn't say. To be honest, all I really care about is that the Loxia line performs on the Sony FE cameras without most of the drawbacks of say my ZM25 or VM15 on the A7 and A7r. I'm sorely tempted to buy the A7s for my M mount lenses with the safety net of a wide angle Loxia to fall back on if necessary. I'd certainly like the benefits of EXIF info being recorded and automatic magnification when turning the focus ring. As always, time will tell.

 

[ken_vs_ryu]

A 24x36 sensor with the pixel pitch of the nex-7, a6000, is a 57 mp sensor. That will be coming eventually.

 

[philip_pj]

Steve, I think you and sundry others will be happy. That Lloyd image was shot onto the a7r sensor, at huge magnification.

On the higher Mp full frame sensor issue, anyone using a 24Mp APS-C right now is doing exactly this right now with around 40% of the frame, but the industry needed time to rectify designs for outer frames and corners to look reasonable on FF.

Another thought on the Loxia 35/2 Biogon - its strong point in MTF is the high sagittal lines - these ones represent radial performance - from the image centre outwards to the frame corners - exactly the orientation where the dreaded smearing occurs, caused by light rays trying to penetrate the glass cover! The other dimension - around the image - matters much less.

Today is a rumour of the forthcoming Zeiss Otus 85/1.4. I feel that heavy fast non-telephoto lenses are the ones that belong in a studio or set shoot (tripod), and these Otus lenses are 'pure' and lack the nicety of VR/IS that owners are used to these days, and yet they are designed for Canon and Nikon.

Given the sharp separation at the plane of focus the high end lenses give - esp an 85m with wicked thin DOF - who is going to walk the streets with one on their D810, and expecting a whole bag of keepers? For general use, the current short telephotos are already wonderful.

It must be tempting for Sony to develop an IBIS DSLR with a ~50mp FF inside it - they now have the lenses for it to work very well, right across the range. That single change would regenerate interest in A mount overnight and throw down the gauntlet, I suggest. But Sony is just inscrutable. lol.

 

[G43]

It must be tempting for Sony to develop an IBIS DSLR with a ~50mp FF inside it - they now have the lenses for it to work very well, right across the range. That single change would regenerate interest in A mount overnight and throw down the gauntlet, I suggest. But Sony is just inscrutable. lol.

And perhaps IBIS on all @ cameras would be what it takes to place SONY on the high end summit camera maker ever... then add a bit of the responsiveness and photographers tool from the Olympus EM1 and think like Ricoh

 

[Annna T]

Zeiss is answering to questions concerning the two newly announced lenses. An interesting question concerned the difference between the existing 55mm F1.8 and the 50mm F2. Here is the Zeiss team's answer :

"The Loxia 2/50 is a complete different lens than the Sonnar T* FE 1.8/55. It is more optimized for smoothness than for contrast at high aperture."

Answering another question they described the iris : ten blades forming an almost circular aperture.

There are some interesting questions and answers. You can read more here.

 

[Steve P.]

There are some interesting questions and answers. You can read more here.

The man from Zeiss says they expect to release the next Loxia focal length in mid 2015. Maybe wide angle, maybe not. As usual they're keeping their cards close to their chests. Looking on the bright side at least it gives me a chance to save up!

 

[ZoranC]

The Fuji X100 color palette is to me precious with its gentleness and pastel color space. I can't twist that out of neither the 7s or my Oly EM1, but the EM1 shows colors which I think is close to unmatched by any, IMO, though still not X100 colors.

Just download evaluation copies of DXO's FilmPack and Alien Skin's Exposure and give them a run. You might find not only an answer/solution to your dilemma but also that universe of palettes and their permutations is so vast, practically infinite, that they have let you liberate yourself from "same old, same like everyone else's" look manufacturer's choice corals people into.

 

[G43]

Zoran..

I have Alien Skin and Perfect Photo Suite from OnOneSoft. I have promised myself never to make use of these filters and what do we have inside those SW's.
I have used those back in time and I somehow felt it applied something to my images that did not come from myself. It isn't my work and I can't take credit for anything these SW's does in good and bad.
OK, you do of course not suggest here I should spoil the signature I am trying to obtain with my photography and perhaps I am too conservative refusing those applications.
You may say, even you don't, why do I care as long as it pleases my eyes? Hmm.. I am not quite sure, but it has to do with I wish a RAW file that already shows the inherent quality/signature of the Fuji output in order not to land up with a processed Fuji RAW applied a filter that cannot be predicted what will do and there's no one filter that applies to all differently processed images. There will be too much of a trial and error involved.

 

[ZoranC]

Zoran..

I have Alien Skin and Perfect Photo Suite from OnOneSoft. I have promised myself never to make use of these filters and what do we have inside those SW's.
I have used those back in time and I somehow felt it applied something to my images that did not come from myself. It isn't my work and I can't take credit for anything these SW's does in good and bad.
OK, you do of course not suggest here I should spoil the signature I am trying to obtain with my photography and perhaps I am too conservative refusing those applications.
You may say, even you don't, why do I care as long as it pleases my eyes? Hmm.. I am not quite sure, but it has to do with I wish a RAW file that already shows the inherent quality/signature of the Fuji output in order not to land up with a processed Fuji RAW applied a filter that cannot be predicted what will do and there's no one filter that applies to all differently processed images. There will be too much of a trial and error involved.

If you use manufacturer's settings then you are already applying something that didn't come from you. Moment you open file in any RAW developer you are using look that didn't come from you. Open same RAW file in X different RAW developers and you are going to get X different looks, all representing what developers of that software felt file should look like. No tool will give you 100% of look you desire 100% of the time, and I consider manufacturer's looks just tools and starting points. Yes, you can do it all on your own but tools are there to take you to your goal faster. Once you get close enough to that goal quick rest of it is fine tuning to your personal liking (which you can always save as your own preset). And yes, I feel one shouldn't care that they used something to get to their goal as long as result pleases them and it saved them time / gave them flexibility.

 

[G43]

Of course you are right I do not control manufactures camera profiles or RAW developers basic algorithms.
I never felt these filters final paint was good for anything as I do anyhow not know how to PP an image to let them do the magic by just one touch.
I seems more logic to me the signature comes straight out of camera before PP.
I have perhaps just become an old sour rat with stiffened bones and brain cells unable to accept new FW ))

 

[ZoranC]

I never felt these filters final paint was good for anything as I do anyhow not know how to PP an image to let them do the magic by just one touch.

There is no tool that will match everybody's liking by just one touch. Initial exploration and learning curve are needed.

I seems more logic to me the signature comes straight out of camera before PP.

Then you are letting somebody's engineer dictate your look, and your satisfaction with your gear, when it should be other way around, you should take the charge.

In the end bottom line is that it is not your camera but rendering choices. It makes no sense to me to discard it just because of them when I can fully control them. I prefer having clean(er) file to work with than having file less clean but more initially to my liking because I can change the rendering but I can't make file cleaner.

 

[G43]

No matter how we turn it around, we are victims of engineers choices. I can PP as much as I want, but have no control of the PP underlying maths anyhow.
I am neither that much interested in influencing it Zoran and perhaps I can tweak a file to show me exactly the palette of the X100 which is in discussion but it is disturbing my preferred workflow. It is easier for me just to maintain owning a functional X100 and focus on how I can make the most out of the 7s, which again brings us back to the thread, the Loxia lenses and the 7 series cameras

 

[ZoranC]

No matter how we turn it around, we are victims of engineers choices. I can PP as much as I want, but have no control of the PP underlying maths anyhow.
I am neither that much interested in influencing it Zoran and perhaps I can tweak a file to show me exactly the palette of the X100 which is in discussion but it is disturbing my preferred workflow. It is easier for me just to maintain owning a functional X100 and focus on how I can make the most out of the 7s, which again brings us back to the thread, the Loxia lenses and the 7 series cameras

When it comes to color rendering one is victim of somebody else's engineering choices only if one decides to let go of his own steering wheel. When that is done that person's experience and results will be like leaf getting carried by a river, getting tossed left and right and hitting embankments.

One needs to ask himself does he really want to relinquish all control of his future. For example, what will happen if his, say, X100 stops functioning one day (and they all stop one day, sooner or later), will replacement model still have same rendering (I loved how my EP2 rendered out of the box, EP3 was completely different story).

Etc.