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Thread: can the A7s do reds?

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    can the A7s do reds?

    I have been experimenting with the a7s for some days. Today I shot comparisons with my 5dIII and there was nice evening sun.
    I really like the A7s IQ but I am not sure about the reds.
    The aplle was really red, the Canon kept it, the Sony did not. I played with various profiles and saturation but I cant get there. Another example with the leaves.
    Now I wonder how it does skin tones.
    And I wonder if the A7/A7r are the same or different in regards of color???
    Canon:
    S73B8276 by paratom511, on Flickr
    Sony A7s:
    DSC00280 by paratom511, on Flickr

    Canon:
    S73B8254 by paratom511, on Flickr

    A7s:
    DSC00259 by paratom511, on Flickr

    all converted in lightroom.
    I played with WB, saturation, profiles... it all didnt really help - so whats going on here???
    Anybody can post some images of a Ferrari taken with the A7s?

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    While the first shot shows quite bait more resin the apple the second shots looks like the Canon shot is bleeding a bit more magenta and maybe a touch of violet in the leaves. Maybe it's my laptop though.

    As for the A7 or A7r... I have both and never really noticed any color issues personally.
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    While the first shot shows quite bait more resin the apple the second shots looks like the Canon shot is bleeding a bit more magenta and maybe a touch of violet in the leaves. Maybe it's my laptop though.

    As for the A7 or A7r... I have both and never really noticed any color issues personally.
    Thank you!
    I see you also have an M9. Do you see any major color difference between the M9 and the Sonys?
    One more thing Isee in A7s images is the sky seems towards cyan.

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Thank you!
    I see you also have an M9. Do you see any major color difference between the M9 and the Sonys?
    One more thing Isee in A7s images is the sky seems towards cyan.
    The color between the M9 and Sony's are different for sure but the Sony color is the closest thing I've seen to the M9 in any CMOS sensor. I would say the A7 color is what you would get if the M9 had more DR. The Reds tend to be a bit punchier in the M9. The A7 seems produce scenes with a lot of reds slightly warmer than reality. Scenes with lots of green and blue tend to be slightly cooler than reality. I think that's just a case of the camera profile. Both the M9 and A7 series produce extremely pleasing looks in my eyes. They've been my favorite cameras to use by far.

    I sold my M9-P a few months ago mainly because the A7 is quite a bit more versatile.
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    might also to be the different in glass/lens too?
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by UHDR View Post
    might also to be the different in glass/lens too?
    that might have an influence. it was the Zeiss 24-70 on the A7s and the Canon 24-70II on the Canon.

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    The color between the M9 and Sony's are different for sure but the Sony color is the closest thing I've seen to the M9 in any CMOS sensor. I would say the A7 color is what you would get if the M9 had more DR. The Reds tend to be a bit punchier in the M9. The A7 seems produce scenes with a lot of reds slightly warmer than reality. Scenes with lots of green and blue tend to be slightly cooler than reality. I think that's just a case of the camera profile. Both the M9 and A7 series produce extremely pleasing looks in my eyes. They've been my favorite cameras to use by far.

    I sold my M9-P a few months ago mainly because the A7 is quite a bit more versatile.
    May I ask which you use more often , A7 or A7r?

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    this morning i shot some more images of red and colored things with the A7s and my Leica T.
    Well...the A7s can do red. It still looks like overall the colors - except green -are not so saturated in A7s images.
    The T seems to be able to "see" red and yellow a little "better" than the A7s.
    So if my job was to photograph Ferraris I would probably not decide for the A7s.
    (Or do you think the Zeiss 2470 draws a little colder??)

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    that might have an influence. it was the Zeiss 24-70 on the A7s and the Canon 24-70II on the Canon.
    i asked because i read alot of report and from my own experience is that canon lens seems to allow a lot more red through their glass as opposed to zeiss. so overall giving it the warmer feel. and also why people some times describes zeiss lens (coating), cooler/crispier feel.

    time to get a EF to E mount adpator!

    (PS: i dont see canon's warmer tone as a bad thing!!!)
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    this morning i shot some more images of red and colored things with the A7s and my Leica T.
    Well...the A7s can do red. It still looks like overall the colors - except green -are not so saturated in A7s images.
    The T seems to be able to "see" red and yellow a little "better" than the A7s.
    So if my job was to photograph Ferraris I would probably not decide for the A7s.
    (Or do you think the Zeiss 2470 draws a little colder??)
    i think it's the lens. although i only have my a7r for couple of weeks i.e. still too early for conclusion. I have tried a few lens and in general i found leica lens gives better green/warm colour, while zeiss gives better blue and sometimes yellow.
    Keep It Simple.
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by UHDR View Post
    i think it's the lens. although i only have my a7r for couple of weeks i.e. still too early for conclusion. I have tried a few lens and in general i found leica lens gives better green/warm colour, while zeiss gives better blue and sometimes yellow.
    I just compared the Zeiss Zoom to the 50apo on the A7s...color look nearly identical. I am impressed how good the IQ of the Zeiss Zoom vs the 50APO on the A7s.
    I think Leica M lenses can not show their full potential on the A7s.
    There are so mixed reviews about the Zeiss 2470 but the sample I have here at least on the A7s seems to deliver pretty consistent IQ.
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    May I ask which you use more often , A7 or A7r?
    I usually use them at the same time but if I had to guess off the top of my head without looking at shutter counts I'd say I use the A7r slightly more.
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Sony sensors can take a lot of adjustment. I'd shoot a Color Checker and create a tailored camera calibration. :-)

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Sony sensors can take a lot of adjustment. I'd shoot a Color Checker and create a tailored camera calibration. :-)

    G
    Thanks,
    I ll give it a try.
    Experiencing the A7s and today also trying the A7 seems I find the handling of the body and speed of AF better than I expected from reading reviews.
    Even though I feel the camera has more buttons than one needs.
    And the same goes for the 2470 Zeiss which I find -so far- also better than what I read in reviews.

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Thanks,
    I ll give it a try.
    Experiencing the A7s and today also trying the A7 seems I find the handling of the body and speed of AF better than I expected from reading reviews.
    Even though I feel the camera has more buttons than one needs.
    And the same goes for the 2470 Zeiss which I find -so far- also better than what I read in reviews.
    The A7 has more than adequate AF speed in good light. It's lowlight (especially with slower lenses) where you start to see AF the hunting. In good light the A7 should be the fastest focusing of the A7 bodies... on paper at least.

    When I owned the 24-70/4 FE I thought it was a competent lens but I expected quite a bit more for the price personally. I think that's why I sold it - my expectations. I don't think I would've complained about performance (in my head) were it a $6-900 lens. At $1200 I expect a lens to be somewhat special.

    What RAW converter are you using? I've been using Capture One Pro 8 as of late but LR5 is still my primary for quick touchups and editing. There's just so many more options and integration with external editors to give it up for now.
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Canon reds have long been notorious, you can find a huge amount of information on the issue. Most people loved the original 5D for color before the company lost its way, trading off color for high ISO performance. Color in digital is complex and hotly contested. People get used to color and come to see the familiar as 'correct', and most prefer more saturated images. Here is an old piece back when people noticed how good Sony color was, in a900 days:

    'The way manufacturers make their general "trade-off choices" is a large part of the manufacturer colour fingerprint also, and those chosen trade-offs also affect the way you can post-process your pictures quite strongly. It's said that MDFB's can be PP'd a lot harder than "normal" cameras, and in part this is very much true - due to the choices an MDFB maker is likely to do when choosing a sensor package.

    Most of the Canon "problem" stems from the area that covers the skin-tones. By setting WB to get skintones "just right", you usually screw up the rest of the hues present in the picture. But in controlled lighting, building a profile to make this right is not a problem.'

    a850 vs a900, 1 stop better noise performance? - FM Forums

    Another related concern for Canon users is the lack of micro-contrast their lenses exhibit - leading to a more flat color rendition. Here was a fun experiment with interesting results:

    A Small Experiment:
    A small experiment - FM Forums
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    The A7 has more than adequate AF speed in good light. It's lowlight (especially with slower lenses) where you start to see AF the hunting. In good light the A7 should be the fastest focusing of the A7 bodies... on paper at least.

    When I owned the 24-70/4 FE I thought it was a competent lens but I expected quite a bit more for the price personally. I think that's why I sold it - my expectations. I don't think I would've complained about performance (in my head) were it a $6-900 lens. At $1200 I expect a lens to be somewhat special.

    What RAW converter are you using? I've been using Capture One Pro 8 as of late but LR5 is still my primary for quick touchups and editing. There's just so many more options and integration with external editors to give it up for now.
    I use LR, still also have C1 and DXO on my computer but allways come back to LR.
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by philip_pj View Post
    Canon reds have long been notorious, you can find a huge amount of information on the issue. Most people loved the original 5D for color before the company lost its way, trading off color for high ISO performance. Color in digital is complex and hotly contested. People get used to color and come to see the familiar as 'correct', and most prefer more saturated images. Here is an old piece back when people noticed how good Sony color was, in a900 days:

    'The way manufacturers make their general "trade-off choices" is a large part of the manufacturer colour fingerprint also, and those chosen trade-offs also affect the way you can post-process your pictures quite strongly. It's said that MDFB's can be PP'd a lot harder than "normal" cameras, and in part this is very much true - due to the choices an MDFB maker is likely to do when choosing a sensor package.

    Most of the Canon "problem" stems from the area that covers the skin-tones. By setting WB to get skintones "just right", you usually screw up the rest of the hues present in the picture. But in controlled lighting, building a profile to make this right is not a problem.'

    a850 vs a900, 1 stop better noise performance? - FM Forums

    Another related concern for Canon users is the lack of micro-contrast their lenses exhibit - leading to a more flat color rendition. Here was a fun experiment with interesting results:

    A Small Experiment:
    A small experiment - FM Forums
    The problem here was that the 5dIII did very well with the apple and the A7s didnt show the "life" of the apple in the evening sun.
    Last edited by Paratom; 26th October 2014 at 01:25.

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    The problem here was that the 5dIII did very well with the apple and the A7s didnt show the "life" of the apple in the evening sun.
    I've been sitting here trying to think of what to suggest you try, as clearly your right your camera seems to be having a problem with the red channel that mine is not. Have you tried doing a master reset of the camera, and starting fresh with the settings from scratch? You mite want to give that a try, and see if that helps.



    P.S. I *HATE* yellow colored painted walls with a room full of bright sunlight..... just no way to avoid the spill onto the skin. <sigh>.

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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Anybody can post some images of a Ferrari taken with the A7s?
    Not a Ferrari, but it's close--taken with the A7 and post-processed in Lightroom:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/grahamgibson/
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    Re: can the A7s do reds?

    Thank you guys.
    I have gone further using the A7/A7s.
    One thing for sure: AWB is much different from the M and also the LR presets are much different between M and A7/s.
    I still feel - even when tweaked in post - the A7 seem to produce slightly cooler colors and to be not so strong with reds.
    The M seems to produce nice warm tones but then its sometimes too much.

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