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Thread: Loxia or FE 55?

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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Loxia or FE 55?

    Im ready to pull the plug and am having a hard time deciding. Anyone here have the loxia and 55 ? I have not evaluated them and am looking for feedback.

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    Senior Member CharlesK's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    The FE 55 on both the A7r and A7s is an amazing lens in its own right. I feel the Loxia 50 is a lens you purchase afterwards for difference style of look/rendering IMO.
    Charles Kalnins
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    'having a hard time deciding.'

    Sony's excellent marketing at work. It might depend on what you shoot, what look you are after, whether you want a general purpose lens or more a 'character' lens. Most of us would like both I suspect ;-)

    Here is a good going over of these two plus Leica's very nice Summicron-R 50/2:
    #285. Zeiss Loxia 50/2, Sony FE55/1.8 and Leica Summicron 50/2, the Great Normal Lens Shootout | DearSusan
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    I agree that there is room for both if you love the focal lengths. I have the ZM 50/2 Planar and have used it on the A7 and A7r (as well as my M9's.) It has more of a classical Zeiss rendering but is plenty sharp. The 55 is more clinical perfection with some classic Zeiss cues thrown in for good measure. You won't be disappointed with either I don't think. The question is more of preference of rendering.
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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    i had the 55 at one time and stck with the 50 ZA because it was so good and worked on both cameras. I may end up with the loxia as a dedicated E mount lens. I lik ethe manual focus aspect of it and the size seems rather conforming.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by ryc View Post
    i had the 55 at one time and stck with the 50 ZA because it was so good and worked on both cameras. I may end up with the loxia as a dedicated E mount lens. I lik ethe manual focus aspect of it and the size seems rather conforming.
    Why not go with thereal Zeiss, the OTUS 55mm than dealing with Zeiss badged lenses?

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by ryc View Post
    i had the 55 at one time and stck with the 50 ZA because it was so good and worked on both cameras. I may end up with the loxia as a dedicated E mount lens. I lik ethe manual focus aspect of it and the size seems rather conforming.
    You selling the 50 1.4 ZA. I maybe interested
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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Otus is too big for my style of street shooting.

    Sorry Guy. the 50 1.4 is a keeper. But I a selling the 85

    camerapeddler.com | Listing 63 | 85mm F1.4 ZA New in the box

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Dang I have the 85 now but like you in serving 2 mounts and this would be a great match. I like the look if Zeiss so I'm trying to stay in it in the 50. The 55 1.8 is very sharp but a touch clinical. The Loxia 50 sounds more classic looking. When are these hitting the streets
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    IMO AF is a real benefit for a fast lens.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Why?

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Dang I have the 85 now but like you in serving 2 mounts and this would be a great match. I like the look if Zeiss so I'm trying to stay in it in the 50. The 55 1.8 is very sharp but a touch clinical. The Loxia 50 sounds more classic looking. When are these hitting the streets
    There were a couple Zeiss Loxia 50's on Amazon a couple weeks ago so they are trickling in.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Yes the FE 55 maybe a touch clinical, but wide open for portraits it is excellent! The FE 55 combined with the A7s seems to be a great match. I am usually not one for AF, but the AF with A7s will virtually focus in total darkness, and it is very accurate.
    Charles Kalnins
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    I got to try a Loxia 50mm on my A7R at PhotoPlus last weekend and it was sweet. I wasn't seriously considering the lens until I gave it a try. Afterward, I found myself asking the same question as yourself Loxia 50mm or FE 55. I found this review in my search for an answer.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    I'm with Charles, I love the Jeckyll and Hyde character of the FE55, it's like the truck in Mad Max flicking the switch on the nitrous oxide - going from soft and pleasant f1.8 to 'everything is revealed' at f4 onwards, lol.

    Here are some images from cine guy Philip Bloom shot with the Loxia 50/2 in the fashionable clipped blacks and strong saturation and deep skin tones of contemporary movie making, and see his battered a7r at the end:

    https://www.storehouse.co/stories/o9...-loxia-50mm-f2

    The Loxias are going to be perfect fits on the bodies.
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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Well, i think i am placing an order tomorrow for the loxia. Now lets see how long it takes

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why?
    Because its faster, because I find face recognition one of the few benefits of mirrorless cameras, and because I think AF is more accurate for non static subjects.
    The longer and faster the lens, the more one can benefit from AF IMO.
    Of course it doesnt make any difference for static subjects.

    On the other side if the manual focus lens would render much more to my taste I would probably accept to have no AF.
    By the way...I just looked at that Loxia review which is also comparing the 2 lenses and I admit I find the Noxia to render somewhat smoother and more natural in some of the portrait images.

    One more thing is focal length - I find 5mm can make some difference. 55 seems quite nice if one is using it a lot for short-medium distance portrait. I realized the difference when I compared the 55 Sony to the 50 APO.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Because its faster, because I find face recognition one of the few benefits of mirrorless cameras, and because I think AF is more accurate for non static subjects.
    The longer and faster the lens, the more one can benefit from AF IMO.
    Of course it doesnt make any difference for static subjects.

    On the other side if the manual focus lens would render much more to my taste I would probably accept to have no AF.
    By the way...I just looked at that Loxia review which is also comparing the 2 lenses and I admit I find the Noxia to render somewhat smoother and more natural in some of the portrait images.
    I agree. Face and Eye recognition are quite useful and F/1.8 aperture makes the FE 55/1.8 best AF lens for my A7R and A6000. Set the Live View Setting to "setting effect off" and it always focuses wide open (means most contrast/least noise for sensor-CDAF) and this lens can AF in very very dark conditions if one just gives it a tiny bit of vertical contrast, even in the A7R. The thing is that this also works in MF mode so even when shooting stopped down the lens will remain wide open until I press shutter; a nice feature for low light shooting when stopping down for DoF. Loxia unfortunately cannot do this as aperture is purely manual only, I asked this from Zeiss and they confirmed it.

    Don't get me wrong, I still miss the real manual focus feel of Makro Planar 50/2 that I traded in for the FE 55/1.8, but the FE 55/1.8 is so usable in variety of situations and the AF gizmos are gonna get better and better with each generation of FE bodies.
    Last edited by tn1krr; 10th November 2014 at 01:59.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Because its faster, because I find face recognition one of the few benefits of mirrorless cameras, and because I think AF is more accurate for non static subjects.
    The longer and faster the lens, the more one can benefit from AF IMO.
    Of course it doesnt make any difference for static subjects.
    They are also slower than manual focusing speeds. Besides (except Fuji and Samsung and tiny formats) all AF lenses in that FL range are not that fast, including the new and shiny Leica's T system.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Well I suppose it all depends on what you want. One of the main reasons I made a more than partial switch from the Leica M system to the A7 series was for the auto-focus lenses as what with getting older (eyesight wise) I was finding it harder to get a high hit rate with my summilux 50 asph wide open and even slightly stopped down. Personally I find the FE55 to be a most excellent lens that focus well on the A7 and better on the A7s in low light. I can hit the focus on the eyes close up, wide open and off centre in a way I just can't with the M. The fly-by-wire manual focussing on the 55 is also pretty good and a lot better than a lot of early tries at this technology (think of the problems with the early fuji X100). What I miss on the FE lenses is a DOF scale though not so useful on lenses of over 50mm I really would love to have a DOF scale on the wider lenses for street work

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    They are also slower than manual focusing speeds. Besides (except Fuji and Samsung and tiny formats) all AF lenses in that FL range are not that fast, including the new and shiny Leica's T system.
    Hi Vivek,
    I dont understand what you mean, I am not aware of a 50mm equivalent AF lens for the T.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Hi Tom,

    Fast lenses are limited to f/2.8 and f/1.8 (The T's fastest is f2). The only proposed fast lens for the E mount is a 35/1.4 monster.

    I can still focus a fast 50ish lens on the A7/r faster than any AF these cams offer (it may not work for others as David points out above).
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Tom,

    Fast lenses are limited to f/2.8 and f/1.8 (The T's fastest is f2). The only proposed fast lens for the E mount is a 35/1.4 monster.

    I can still focus a fast 50ish lens on the A7/r faster than any AF these cams offer (it may not work for others as David points out above).
    I understand,
    it seems you are faster manually focusing than I can achieve (or your AF is slower than mine )
    Nice to have the choices between those lenses.
    I read one can use the Noxia in a way focus mganification is automated automatically when turning the wheel. This should be a nice option for people who like manual focus.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Another thing to think about (this is going from my ZM experiences) is that the 50 Planar while not quite as sharp wide open will give you more pleasing shots for people. That's not to take anything away from the 55 as its a great lens (and possibly more versatile) too. Again you won't be displeased with either unless you're an extreme pixel peeper or require the sharpest lens out there.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I understand,
    it seems you are faster manually focusing than I can achieve (or your AF is slower than mine )
    I guess it will be about 15 years to slow my faculties and to match any auto focus improvements.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Another thing to think about (this is going from my ZM experiences) is that the 50 Planar while not quite as sharp wide open will give you more pleasing shots for people. That's not to take anything away from the 55 as its a great lens (and possibly more versatile) too. Again you won't be displeased with either unless you're an extreme pixel peeper or require the sharpest lens out there.
    Thats what I found from looking at the Portrait Images in the comparison. The Noxia looked slightly more pleasing to my eyes, but the differences seemed pretty small.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    i've thought of this lens (Loxia/50) too. Aside from performance I just really like the look of this lens and the zoom manual feature. It seems to compliment the A7 in a way that Leica does with its manual focus lenses.
    That being said, i've used the 55 1.8 FE in places i'm not sure the Loxia would like, such as extreme cold and snow. I've literally had the 55FE covered in snow (UV in place) of course, and not something I recommend, but the lens performed perfectly. There's a little peace of mind knowing your lens is weather sealed.

    Sony A7 users have waited long enough for a good selection of primes. Now an 85mm1.4 would be welcomed too.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    i've thought of this lens (Loxia/50) too. Aside from performance I just really like the look of this lens and the zoom manual feature. It seems to compliment the A7 in a way that Leica does with its manual focus lenses.
    That being said, i've used the 55 1.8 FE in places i'm not sure the Loxia would like, such as extreme cold and snow. I've literally had the 55FE covered in snow (UV in place) of course, and not something I recommend, but the lens performed perfectly. There's a little peace of mind knowing your lens is weather sealed.

    Sony A7 users have waited long enough for a good selection of primes. Now an 85mm1.4 would be welcomed too.
    There's always that hope for getting the "Otus-lite" treatment in the form of a Sony Zeiss 85/1.8 FE.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    There's always that hope for getting the "Otus-lite" treatment in the form of a Sony Zeiss 85/1.8 FE.
    Agreed! The 85mm is such a great focal length. Honestly, the 55FE is much closer to the Otus then the Loxia in regards to technical data, but many suggest the rendering of the Loxia more pleasing. I'm not convinced though, i've cropped the 55FE really tight and the results are spectacular. You might spend a little more time editing, but a weather proof lens is important for my style.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Agreed! The 85mm is such a great focal length. Honestly, the 55FE is much closer to the Otus then the Loxia in regards to technical data, but many suggest the rendering of the Loxia more pleasing. I'm not convinced though, i've cropped the 55FE really tight and the results are spectacular. You might spend a little more time editing, but a weather proof lens is important for my style.
    I think most people are referring to the "more pleasing" warmer style of the Loxia - especially for people shots. The 50 Planar on which the Loxia is based on was known as a great character lens and one that performed above it's price level on the M platform. In fact I chose it above the 50 Summicron and not because I bought it for1/3 the price either. I own a 50 Summilux FLE still as well but there's something special about the Zeiss 50.

    For clinical perfection or absolute detail I don't think anyone will argue that the 55 FE doesn't excel at that. They're both great lenses and there's room for both if you love the focal length.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Nice thread and with much mental debate on what to buy. I need the A and FE mount for both my cams. I was not willing to wait for the Sigma Art 50mm 1.4 so I bought a Sony Zeiss 50mm 1.4 ZA. I figure worst that can happen is it will render like my 85 1.4 ZA which I love. So my bet is I will be happy with it. Right now i still have not committed to the FE mount in total when the Mark II versions of the A7 series comes out and it has the same or better focusing abilities as my A77II than I will jump hook, line and sinker. Until than Ill buy what works today because sitting here waiting on Sigma is Not a good option( waiting on anything is not how I roll either), waiting on Zeiss for the Loxia does not solve the A mount issue and I am pretty dang sure I will render just like it. Being a Pro I have these limitations in the FE mount that I just can't overcome right now until a improved body comes out.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Nice thread and with much mental debate on what to buy. I need the A and FE mount for both my cams. I was not willing to wait for the Sigma Art 50mm 1.4 so I bought a Sony Zeiss 50mm 1.4 ZA. I figure worst that can happen is it will render like my 85 1.4 ZA which I love. So my bet is I will be happy with it. Right now i still have not committed to the FE mount in total when the Mark II versions of the A7 series comes out and it has the same or better focusing abilities as my A77II than I will jump hook, line and sinker. Until than Ill buy what works today because sitting here waiting on Sigma is Not a good option( waiting on anything is not how I roll either), waiting on Zeiss for the Loxia does not solve the A mount issue and I am pretty dang sure I will render just like it. Being a Pro I have these limitations in the FE mount that I just can't overcome right now until a improved body comes out.
    Well the good thing is you can sell the Zeiss if you don't like it or buy the Sigma outright if it out performs it in your eyes.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    I really miss the 24mm f2 and the 85mm 1.4 when I had the Alpha mount. I suppose i could try the LAea3/4, but i've read that the translucent mirror degrades the image slightly.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Hogwash. But seriously I have not noticed any degradation. I guess obviously if it was dirty or had something on it sure. Seriously though i think some reports like this are more internet lure than anything else. Maybe Im wrong but I have not noticed anything like this. Including the newest one I read today with regards to banding blaming lossy compression. But here is the key have you seen anything faster in 1.8 in a FE mount. Only the A mount is faster. Now if maybe I had a A7s than speed of lens may not be so important but shooting things at F4 and yes i am STILL HIGH ISO shy makes me nervous. Okay I went off topic. You remember my 55, 85 and 135 test. Well the 85 and 135 where with the LA-4 and they did very very well with the 55 1.8 which maybe only the OTUS and Sigma Art can beat the 55.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Well the good thing is you can sell the Zeiss if you don't like it or buy the Sigma outright if it out performs it in your eyes.
    Exactly my thinking. Until Sigma actually shows there hand which lets be honest they have botched the 24-105 A mount release and Im just not sure how serious they are about the A mount. So until its on the streets ill play it safe.

    The key here is i have enough money in the Zeiss to make that switch if need be. Money sitting in my Paypal account for 2 months is not likely going to be there when it does come out. LOL

    been a rough week sold 2 lenses I really like for 2 lenses that I really need. The 24 TSE and great 50mm
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Guy,

    I agree on internet hype...
    I am considering the LA3 or 4 just to play with those and other Alpha/Minolta lenses. I haven't held back on the adapter because of hype, but only hope that they'll be more fast FE prime lenses in the portrait range.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Well agree it's also a forced issue to get focal length and speed. Time will make it better and as I mentioned earlier I'm having a hard time committing to the FE mount until a version 2 comes out. I need something that can track AF like the A77II can. Until than I will hang on to the 2 bodies but I really want to go FE all the way. Maybe early next year. Get the La-4 as it does give you AF not sure the 3 does
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Hi,

    I guess that if the lens doesn't fit in the constraints of the FE mount it needs to be redesigned. The Nikon mount is not wider than the FE mount AFAIK but flange distance is long on the Nikon mount, giving more opportunity for optical tricks.

    So, yes, I think Sigma can be right.

    Best regards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Exactly my thinking. Until Sigma actually shows there hand which lets be honest they have botched the 24-105 A mount release and Im just not sure how serious they are about the A mount. So until its on the streets ill play it safe.

    The key here is i have enough money in the Zeiss to make that switch if need be. Money sitting in my Paypal account for 2 months is not likely going to be there when it does come out. LOL

    been a rough week sold 2 lenses I really like for 2 lenses that I really need. The 24 TSE and great 50mm

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Hogwash. But seriously I have not noticed any degradation. I guess obviously if it was dirty or had something on it sure. Seriously though i think some reports like this are more internet lure than anything else. Maybe Im wrong but I have not noticed anything like this. Including the newest one I read today with regards to banding blaming lossy compression. But here is the key have you seen anything faster in 1.8 in a FE mount. Only the A mount is faster. Now if maybe I had a A7s than speed of lens may not be so important but shooting things at F4 and yes i am STILL HIGH ISO shy makes me nervous. Okay I went off topic. You remember my 55, 85 and 135 test. Well the 85 and 135 where with the LA-4 and they did very very well with the 55 1.8 which maybe only the OTUS and Sigma Art can beat the 55.
    Hi Guy,
    The E-Mount lenses are not the fastest but compared to Fuji or to the A77II the FF-sensor allows quite shallow DOF. And with the A7s high ISO capability is quite good and a little slower lenses not that much of a problem.

    People see a m43 12-40/2.8 as fast lens , and a FF 24-70/4.0 as slow lens. For me a 12-40/2.8 m43 is equivalent to a 24-80/5.6 FF lens, a 50/1.4 on DX I see as a 75/2.0 FF lens.

    More important than max f-stop of a lens - for me-is that the widest f-stop is really good and usable.
    So far I am quite happy with FE Zooms (24-70 and also the 70-200 seems quite good).
    I have waited long before eventually checking out an A7s ... but I am seriously considering to sell my Canon 5DIII and lenses. Of course the Canon is faster and does nice focus tracking, but the A7s an A7 do focus faster than I had experienced. (I would never chnage if sports were my main interest - but my kids are fast too sometimes and the A7s so far keeps up pretty good).

    sorry, off topic.
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    but flange distance is long on the Nikon mount, giving more opportunity for optical tricks.
    Sigma is a full of BS. It is because of the short registry there are more opportunities for optimization of the lens.

    Check this out (the details): https://www.smpte.org/sites/default/...1-Caldwell.pdf
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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    I played with the Loxia today at the local shop. None in stock just the display. Needless to say, got home and placed my order with zeiss immediately. The build quality and feel are fantastic!

    http://zeissimages.com/showphoto.php?photoid=40804

    http://zeissimages.com/showphoto.php?photoid=40805

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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    There is a nice comparison between the new 50mm Loxia and the Leica M 50mm F2 cron. here in the Spanish DSLR Magazine
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Yeah I red that. Interesting read.
    My summicron M and the Minolta 58/1,2 are witholding me from buying any rather expensive new 5omm lenses.

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Hi,

    True, but if the lens is designed so it cannot illuminate the full sensor plane it needs a redesign. The diameter of the bayonet is smaller than the diagonal of the sensor and there is a need for the bayonet, too.

    Sigma is a commercial producer of lenses. If they don't make lenses for the FE-mount it is because it does not make economic sense according to their market analysis. It is as simple as that.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Sigma is a full of BS. It is because of the short registry there are more opportunities for optimization of the lens.

    Check this out (the details): https://www.smpte.org/sites/default/...1-Caldwell.pdf

  45. #45
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Hi,

    The Zony (FE 55) 55/1.8 seems to be an excellent lens for the price. Diglloyd is testing both Loxias, and I got the impression that compared to the Zony lenses they are a bit aged.

    The main issues seems to be field curvature, but rendition may be pleasant. The images Diglloyd have posted are not very sharp (unusable) at full aperture, but they sharpen up nicely around f/4 (what I have seen).

    I miss a high quality 85 mm lens for the FE mount, but the A-mount 85/1.4 would be able to fill that gap.

    Best regards
    Erik

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Hi,

    Interesting. It seems that the Leica lens is basically a superior design, but it may be hampered by the about 2 mm thick "cover glass" of the sensor at large apertures.

    The Loxias have been redesigned to take that optical package into account. Leica has a thinner optical package (0.8 mm), that works better with lenses having large beam angles.

    The M8, had even thinner package (0.5 mm), but got problems with excessive IR as the IR filter was to thin. Life is a compromise.

    LensRentals.com - Sensor Stack Thickness: When Does It Matter?

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    There is a nice comparison between the new 50mm Loxia and the Leica M 50mm F2 cron. here in the Spanish DSLR Magazine

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Zeiss maybe gambled a little that, instead of making a new design, they could improve on the ZMs enough to get past the quite typical midfield curvature so many near normal M lenses have. The irony is the Planar 50/2 ZM is very good in this respect until the far corners, albeit at lower contrast.

    Overall, they did very well, boosted contrast stopped down but (always a but) you do get a fall in midfield (IH 15mm). This is where the DSLR mag charts are misleading, as contrast rises in the corners of the Loxia. Something has to give. Even the ZM 35/1.4 has a little residual midfield curvature but it's already at such a high level no one will notice!

    They (Zeiss) admit contrast in the L50/2 will be lower up to f4 compared to the FE55. 50mm lenses are a kind of cross over point - people want great bokeh and strong centers but these days the images get closely peeped, so smooth outer frames and good corners are needed too. People will likely warm to the Loxia images over time, and they really dress up the bodies.

    I don't reckon there is much room for Sigma in FE, with CZ and Sony hard at it.

    'I miss a high quality 85 mm lens for the FE mount'
    Let's start a petition!

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    On the Loxia 50mm lens:
    The Sony A7 and Zeiss Loxia 50mm f/2 Lens Review by Tomer Vaknin | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS
    Looks like an excellent lens to me.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    I hardly take it off my A7R, it is such a delight to use, and so good at just about everything.

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    Re: Loxia or FE 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    On the Loxia 50mm lens:
    The Sony A7 and Zeiss Loxia 50mm f/2 Lens Review by Tomer Vaknin | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS
    Looks like an excellent lens to me.
    Amsterdam is one of the cities filled with people (and most aren't averse to photographs) and he finds a cat to photograph! Not useful.
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