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Rumor: Pro FE mount coming

pegelli

Well-known member
If it's true I hope they allow manual input of the focal length (like Olympus).
Otherwise this IBIS is still useless for adapted 3rd party lenses.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
Hello KH

My information was from a fellow who was comparing long lenses on Sony and Canon. He stated that he saw less vibration with the Canon lens based system. I just did a Google search and found this article:

https://photographylife.com/lens-stabilization-vs-in-camera-stabilization

Of course, not being an electro-mechanical engineer I can't speak to the truth of these statements. However it seems to make sense that motion in a long lens might not be sensed in the camera body as effectively as for a shorter lens.

Regards,
John
Many years ago I did an (unscientific) test with a colleague of mine.

I was using my Konica-Minolta 5D with a Minolta 100-400 zoom lens. (in-body stabilization).

He was using a Canon 30D and a Canon IS 100-400 zoom lens. (in-lens stabilization).

We both shot the same subject, handheld at 400 mm and 1/125th about 40-50 shots (taking some rest in between). The amount of pictures with acceptable sharpness we got was roughly the same (somewhere around the 50-60% mark).

Then we switched cameras and did the same. Again the number of pictures with acceptable sharpness was the same, but both significantly less than the first series with our own camera.

Then we picked up our own cameras again, switched off the stabilization and did another series, we both hardly got any acceptable shots.

For us the conclusion of this test was :
- Stabilization works, but it isn't a guarantee for sharp pictures, it just increases the probability you get an acceptable sharp shot
- No significant difference between in-lens vs. in-body stabilization at 400 mm and 1/125th handheld
- The system you use and are familiar with is better then something new and unfamiliar

To make this a scientific test you need to test other bodies, other lenses, more people etc. etc., but for day-to-day practical use I just stopped worrying about the theoretical differences between the systems, since we couldn't find any significant difference between them.
 
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UHDR

New member
the IBIS is welcomed, but not too sure about the additional weight and size increase.

interestingly they haven't annouced A7r m2. may be they want to see how the A7m2 goes, and see if market is saturated with their new tech, then determine how much price hike they will apply...
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
As they say ... This Changes Everything.


- Marc
This is a very important camera, and the IBIS may not even be the most important reason. The A7 II shows that:

- Sony is able and willing to improve ergonomics on an existing model.
- They listen to customers. One of the most common complaints about the A7 series have been that it's to small. Although this model isn't really any bigger, the grip is, which is the most important.
- It's the fourth A7 model and it still uses the same battery. It's still too small, but at least it's compatible with the previous models. (Panasonic managed three different batteries on the first three GH models.)

Hopefully, this represents the "New Sony", a camera manufacturer that thinks and acts like just that, and not so much like the inventor of 7 million different Walkman models. I'm rather impressed, and for the first time, it's more than 50% likely that I'll buy one. It would bring new life to a whole little forest of good, old lenses :)
 

Paratom

Well-known member
This is a very important camera, and the IBIS may not even be the most important reason. The A7 II shows that:

- Sony is able and willing to improve ergonomics on an existing model.
- They listen to customers. One of the most common complaints about the A7 series have been that it's to small. Although this model isn't really any bigger, the grip is, which is the most important.
- It's the fourth A7 model and it still uses the same battery. It's still too small, but at least it's compatible with the previous models. (Panasonic managed three different batteries on the first three GH models.)

Hopefully, this represents the "New Sony", a camera manufacturer that thinks and acts like just that, and not so much like the inventor of 7 million different Walkman models. I'm rather impressed, and for the first time, it's more than 50% likely that I'll buy one. It would bring new life to a whole little forest of good, old lenses :)
I wish they would have put a higher capacity battery in it instead of consistency.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hello KH

My information was from a fellow who was comparing long lenses on Sony and Canon. He stated that he saw less vibration with the Canon lens based system. I just did a Google search and found this article:

https://photographylife.com/lens-stabilization-vs-in-camera-stabilization

Of course, not being an electro-mechanical engineer I can't speak to the truth of these statements. However it seems to make sense that motion in a long lens might not be sensed in the camera body as effectively as for a shorter lens.

Regards,
John
It seems that this may alter that in that it is multi axis IBIS. I can attest to the fact that the existing IBIS of the A900 and A99 works well in real world situations ... and I've the real acid test of that in using a Sony AF 500/8 mirror on those cameras to amazing effect. This new A7-II should be even more effective.

- Marc
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Well, after all it's Olympus' 5-axis IBIS in a Sony.
That feature certainly works extremely well in my E-M5 and E-M1.
 

tn1krr

New member
If it's true I hope they allow manual input of the focal length (like Olympus).
Otherwise this IBIS is still useless for adapted 3rd party lenses.
That would be a nice feature. let's hope it is possible, but even without it this camera brings stabilization to lenses like ZE Mount Zeiss lenses, I would quess ZE APO Sonnar 135 would not be half that bad on this body with smart adapter ;)

Having a pile of FE mount lenses including the optically stabilized FE 70-200/4 OSS I'm slightly underwhelmed by the still-related specs outside IBIS
- AF appears to still be behind A6000, at least it is less hyped in marketing material
- AF low light sensitivity has not improved from A7, A7 is specced 0-20EV (ISO100, F2.8 lens), A7 II is -1-20EV (ISO100, F2.0 lens) so this looks same to me due to 1 stop difference in spec lens. For sake of comparison the A7S is -4-20 EV with F2.0 lens
- no burst speed improvements. My 70-400 SSM2 can use IBIS but something like 8 fps burst would not hurt
- bracketing still looks to be the same as before

This camera could still impress with things like
- smarter/more configurable auto-ISO
- better hotkey configurability; give us Live View Setting toggle
- uncompressed RAW, though I'm not holding my breath on this

Checked the specs from this google translate link

https://translate.google.com/transl...http://www.sony.jp/ichigan/products/ILCE-7M2/

Personally I'm more excited this as potential indication of A7R II with 36+ MP EFCS+IBIS sensor, my 70-400 G2 and inner pixel peeper would like such camera even more :)
 

gazwas

Active member
WoW, this look amazing and I can't wait for the A9 announcement after Christmas with rumoured new sensor!

A9 with higher MP sensor, IBIS and a Tilt shift lens or two (24mm and 100mm) and I'd never touch a Canon again!
 

Rawfa

Active member
At this point I'd be happier if Sony had released an LA-EAE5 with the A77II's AF speed...as e-mount lenses are few, slow and overpriced.

Also, the VG-C2EM makes me think that the current grip for the A7/A7R/A7S won't fit...just happened to buy TWO of them. How does Sony expect people to invest in an expensive system that keeps changing stuff like this all the time?

I'm thinking the A9 will the the A7R's replacement and will have some sort of ultra fast AF...so I'll just wait and see...maybe in the meanwhile Sony may let us see the A99II.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
How does Sony expect people to invest in an expensive system that keeps changing stuff like this all the time?
If you are into Sony, you should be prepared for this. All they have been doing (since NEX) is disruptive tech products. There is no system. It is yet to take shape. There is a new flash mount and there are even products (A6000) that do not work with their own flashes!

I hope the A9 will be very different than the A7 series cams, including the sensor.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I hope the A9 will be very different than the A7 series cams, including the sensor.
I agree and I'm hoping that the A9 is the "ultimate 35mm digital back." Robust in photography features and build with a great ~28-32MP FF sensor. I actually wouldn't need 4K or video recording but I don't imagine Sony would do that since there always needs to be a tie in with their consumer products.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Andrew and Jim:
When it comes to Sony there are no stupid questions, only crazy reality. The stabilized body will allow the legacy a-mount users (and other mount owners) to get stabilized results. However, it seems to be believed that lens based stabilization (especially with longer lenses) is more effective. So if this rumor is true (which is far from certain) it could be a win/win (unless you only like the smallest body size).
Regards,
John
Hi John
I think the idea that lens based stabilisation is better is long since superseded. The 5 axis image stabilisation on the Olympus E-M1 is nothing short of sensational - hand holding a 600mm equivalent lens at 1/25th second often provides good results, and at 1/60th always provides good results - that would translate to more like 1/1000 with an A7. Sony are claiming 4.5 stops - if that means 3 reliable stops it's fine for me!

My problem with all the A7 cameras has been the necessity to use fast shutter speeds to get unblurred images - EFC and IBIS should completely solve this.
 

Annna T

Active member
WoW, this look amazing and I can't wait for the A9 announcement after Christmas with rumoured new sensor!

A9 with higher MP sensor, IBIS and a Tilt shift lens or two (24mm and 100mm) and I'd never touch a Canon again!
You can easily adapt Canon TSE lenses on the A7 series : since they are manual lenses anyway, you have nothing to loose when they are mounted on the Sony FE bodies, on the contrary.

If you buy a smart adapter, you get EXIF info and a great help for focusing (they become easier to focus than on a Canon body).

Personally, I don't care for the pixels race : I would prefer an electronic first curtain to more pixels. I think that the more pixels you get, the more difficult it becomes to implement that. So 36meg with electronic first curtain would take care of any shutter shock.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Hi John
I think the idea that lens based stabilisation is better is long since superseded. The 5 axis image stabilisation on the Olympus E-M1 is nothing short of sensational - hand holding a 600mm equivalent lens at 1/25th second often provides good results, and at 1/60th always provides good results - that would translate to more like 1/1000 with an A7. Sony are claiming 4.5 stops - if that means 3 reliable stops it's fine for me!

My problem with all the A7 cameras has been the necessity to use fast shutter speeds to get unblurred images - EFC and IBIS should completely solve this.
More importantly it enhances the ergonomic factor, opens up the A-mount lens catalog, and instantly makes the FE platform more inviting to use longer lenses off tripod like the new 70-300mkII... Much the same way that the Olympus OM-D E-M1 was actually a Micro 4/3 "bridge camera body" marketed for those that wanted an update to the full size 4/3 cameras v. a replacement for the OM-D E-M5 .
 
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