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Thread: The Sony A7II

  1. #551
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Oh I thought Vivek's English was "upper class", but what do I know I am not English.
    There is no so called ' class ' of the written English Language.

    There is only one ' class ' , as you call it. It is commonly known as the ' correct ' way to write English.

    But then, you and me can be forgiven for our ignorance...after all, as you say, you are not English.

    Me....all this is new to me. I write and speak a language rooted in the Armaic and Semitic Scripts.. My Language continues to be spoken and written in common and official everyday life unchanged and understood as it was thousands of years ago.

    By the way, the word ' camera ' is derived from my Language. It means a dark room.
    Live and learn.

    Agreed that in the sentence you pointed out, I should have not used an uppercase ' i ' for the word ' incorrectly '. The quotes are necessary to indicate something specific.

    p.s. Or should I have said ' I should not have used an uppercase ...in the sentence above?

    p.p.s ' say ' or ' write '? It is so confusing
    Last edited by rayyan; 6th December 2014 at 15:45.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    I've tried hard to duplicate this, and have failed. I see very little noticeable lag in the EVF. I've shot lots of birds-in-flight with no blank frames.

    Now, I have not shot race cars while panning, so that may indeed show lag. But for near anything else, no noticeable lag. Even in low light when the frame rate slows a bit, it still seems quite current. If there is some way to test this, please tell me.
    hi there. I think you misunderstood me (or perhaps I wasn't clear). I reckon the mirror movement in an SLR more than makes up for the inevitable very slight lag of an EVF meaning that a good mirrorless camera has less overall lag than any SLR . certainly the Fuji X-T1 has the least lag of any camera I've used, and the E-M1 and the A7 aren't far behind.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks again Jono.
    Do you know for which focal length that adapter is good?
    Unfortunately I haven't tried it yet. I was unconvinced with most M lenses under 50 mm with the A7 when I had it (smeary corners). I was using a Novoflex adapter, which may not have been perfect. I'm still expecting to use the A7ii mainly with native lenses and R lenses (but I'll be trying M lenses with the VME

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    hi there. I think you misunderstood me (or perhaps I wasn't clear). I reckon the mirror movement in an SLR more than makes up for the inevitable very slight lag of an EVF meaning that a good mirrorless camera has less overall lag than any SLR . certainly the Fuji X-T1 has the least lag of any camera I've used, and the E-M1 and the A7 aren't far behind.
    Gotcha! Thanks for clearing that up.

  5. #555
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    One factor that seems to get lost in this discussion are the intangibles that go into using a tool, and how subjective and often lacking in language those things are. I'm also a musician, and there are forums that have threads that continue ad nauseum about technical minutae. Every once in awhile, someone brings up actually making music :-).

    I've cycled through a lot of expensive basses over the past few years, selling some pretty amazing instruments. Why? Because for whatever reason, they did not inspire me to take my playing to new places. There weren't specific technical reasons - I just didn't get on with them. And with some, I even liked the recordings from live show and sessions where I used them. But in the end, they just didn't stick. I see some of the same phenomena here. Well, that and GAS - which is alive and well in the musical industry as well.
    new album | nostatic | music
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    I've tried hard to duplicate this, and have failed. I see very little noticeable lag in the EVF. I've shot lots of birds-in-flight with no blank frames.

    Now, I have not shot race cars while panning, so that may indeed show lag. But for near anything else, no noticeable lag. Even in low light when the frame rate slows a bit, it still seems quite current. If there is some way to test this, please tell me.
    The problem when shooting bursts of moving objects is not so much the lag, but the fact that the images that come up in the viewfinder are a slide show of photos that have already bin shot, not what is actually happening at the moment. With fast shutter speeds and objects that follow a predictable path, this is hardly noticeable. For pan shots with slow shutter speed and/or if the object makes a sudden change of path, it becomes problematic, and the object gets blurry (long shutter speed) or the AF starts hunting (change of path).

    "The change of path" variety can to some degree be compensated for by a focusing system with very good tracking abilities (an area where most mirrorless cameras have limited abilities), but once the object disappears from the frame, it's lost for the AF as well.

    The problem seems to be that current electronic viewfinders cannot feed the camera buffer and the EVF simultaneously when shooting stills. This is btw. a problem for Sony's SLT cameras as well, and I noticed that when a sequence from a sports event was shown in the launch video for the A77 or A99 (can't remember which one of them), it was with an athlete coming straight towards the camera. That's a rather creative way to show a camera's abilities if you ask me.

    When the lighting gets low, the problem increases, not because of the EVF, but because cameras without separate phase detect AF sensors seem easier to "fool" by brighter objects appearing in the frame, near the tracked object. Traditional DSLR cameras (and I assume the SLT cameras) seem to stay much more firmly "on track".

    When "face detect" is used by the camera to track a person, mirrorless cameras are mostly superior.

    Edit: Interestingly, when shooting video, some mirrorless cameras, like the GH3/4, track without problems even in low light, while DSLR AF don't respond at all.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 6th December 2014 at 19:13.
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  7. #557
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Unfortunately I haven't tried it yet. I was unconvinced with most M lenses under 50 mm with the A7 when I had it (smeary corners). I was using a Novoflex adapter, which may not have been perfect. I'm still expecting to use the A7ii mainly with native lenses and R lenses (but I'll be trying M lenses with the VME
    Thanks Jono. I understand and recognize your also previously stated points of view. The reason I ask is that I have a Canadian adapter that starts to vignette a bit a 90 mm and severely for 135 mm focal length for FF sensor. For 75, 50 mm and below it is fine.

    Quoting from Hawk's Factory Leica M L M to Sony E Mount Macro Tube Helicoid V3 for 135 FF | eBay

    "There are several parts of this improved version,
    1, Stroke remains to 5mm,
    2, RF lens can be up to 135 mm focal length,
    3, Infinity can be adjusted according to the lens,
    4, you can lock it at infinity,
    5, no longer see oil inside of the hole,
    6, the contacts completely out of the way,
    7, the lens release button narrow than V2.5,

    complementary
    V1 ~ version 2.5 can be used to the 75 mm focal length lens

    The following is a test version 2.5 on A7r
    75 no vignetting (leica 75/1.4)
    90 vignetting will occur (leica 90/2 AA)
    35 no vignetting, no red edge (LEICA 35/1.4 ASPH 11663)

    So, I am looking forward to your experience with the VME adapter.
    Thanks again.



    PS: Answering my own question, the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter for VM-Mount Lens to BD272A, quote:

    "It Vignettes with 90 and 135mm

    By BillM
    from Los Angeles, CA
    About Me Photo Enthusiast
    Verified Reviewer

    The product is very nicely made.However, the Close Focusing mechanism intrudes such that it is less than a full frame opening. 50mm and shorter is okay. But my F4 135 Elmar and my F2 90mm Summicron have a small but hard vignette in the corners. I also have the Novoflex adapter. It does not have this problem.While the Close Focusing feature is very handy for my 28mm and 35mm lenses, I wouldn't have spent this much money if I'd know that it doesn't fully work with the longer lenses."
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 6th December 2014 at 21:44.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The problem when shooting bursts of moving objects is not so much the lag, but the fact that the images that come up in the viewfinder are a slide show of photos that have already bin shot, not what is actually happening at the moment.
    Am I missing something here? Why not just turn-off image review?

    I've shot plenty of high-speed action with the A7, including panning F1 cars at the US grand prix, in the grandstand where the angle of incidence is 90 degrees at close range. Lag is inconsequential and I certainly don't get a slideshow of image reviews.


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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    Am I missing something here? Why not just turn-off image review?

    I've shot plenty of high-speed action with the A7, including panning F1 cars at the US grand prix, in the grandstand where the angle of incidence is 90 degrees at close range. Lag is inconsequential and I certainly don't get a slideshow of image reviews.
    The A7 seems to work differently from (and better than) the GH3 in this respect. In that case, I may be incorrect with regards to the Sony. What was the shutter speed on these? What are you seeing in the viewfinder between the shots in a burst?

    It must be said also that I have shot pans successfully with the Panasonics, but only short bursts and rarely at longer shutter speeds (like 1/60s or longer).

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post

    So, I am looking forward to your experience with the VME adapter.
    Thanks again.



    PS: Answering my own question, the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter for VM-Mount Lens to BD272A, quote:

    "It Vignettes with 90 and 135mm

    By BillM
    from Los Angeles, CA
    About Me Photo Enthusiast
    Verified Reviewer

    The product is very nicely made.However, the Close Focusing mechanism intrudes such that it is less than a full frame opening. 50mm and shorter is okay. But my F4 135 Elmar and my F2 90mm Summicron have a small but hard vignette in the corners. I also have the Novoflex adapter. It does not have this problem.While the Close Focusing feature is very handy for my 28mm and 35mm lenses, I wouldn't have spent this much money if I'd know that it doesn't fully work with the longer lenses."

    My Voigtlander Close focus adaptor certainly doesn't vignette to any degree with my 135 apo=telyt, 90 Elmarit-M or Canon LTM 85/1.8. Have tested them all so I'm not sure what is going on with other peoples

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Viramati View Post
    My Voigtlander Close focus adaptor certainly doesn't vignette to any degree with my 135 apo=telyt, 90 Elmarit-M or Canon LTM 85/1.8. Have tested them all so I'm not sure what is going on with other peoples
    I can add tele elmar 135 with lens and adapter at closest focus distance. No vignetting.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I turn off image review with all my digital cameras, so that I can concentrate on the business of taking new images, not worrying about old ones. I review images later on. Never had EVF issues with the A7 and A7R, but do dislike the laggy vague release of the A7R. Fine for static stuff, but with moving subjects the decisive moment had better come with an advance warning flag and last at least a second

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The A7 seems to work differently from (and better than) the GH3 in this respect. In that case, I may be incorrect with regards to the Sony. What was the shutter speed on these? What are you seeing in the viewfinder between the shots in a burst?

    It must be said also that I have shot pans successfully with the Panasonics, but only short bursts and rarely at longer shutter speeds (like 1/60s or longer).
    Wait so what I'm gathering is that you haven't actually used or even tried any of the A7 series cameras before yet you were arguing against its merits based on hearsay!?! I really do respect you a lot as a long standing member and a great contributor of overall very useful dialog but in this specific topic of the Sony A7 cameras I think I have to recuse myself of every one of your opinions (positive or negative) as none of it was coming from direct personal user experience if this is in fact the case that you have zero experience with the cameras.

    I'm all for the spreading and discussing of information about potential issues. It's a pet peeve of mine when people spread anecdotal rumors not based on their own personal experiences. Leads to many credibility issues for people who just don't know any better. This is why the shutter shock talk and crosstalk topics always go nowhere. Some cameras get hit much harder than others the D800 and many MF cameras had these topics come up too but there seems to be more rational thought in finding/spreading workarounds amongst those who are full-time pros) and rarely do people bring up the workarounds in A7r conversations so that it's usually not an issue for the vast majority. The same could be said for M-mount lenses on both the A7 and A7r - some work well with both some don't. Depends on your lens kit.

    This is why the Internet can be such a dangerous place and it's important to weed through what's fact v. subjective opinion. We don't all shoot the same or have the same kits so it's best to rent or buy based on YOUR usage.

    I believe it was proven that the A7 series (even without the improvements in AF that the A7II brings) is in fact capable of even shooting auto racing in the hands of one that is capable. I have plenty of shots taken with a Sony A7r and lenses much longer than 50mm that prove it is possible to take sharp pictures without shutter shock affecting the output. As they say a picture is worth 1000 words and Show Performance just wrote a short essay.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Tre, If you get into this sort of details, there is no fun.

    Tracking power of a D8100 ought to be demonstrated with an old screw driver driven lens. Otherwise, people may mistake you for lacking in your technique.

    BTW, watch out for the spelling bee! You typed, "dialog", in English!
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I'm an American and Texan born therefore we are in the habit of not caring about the differences between British English, American English, or Texas dialect for that matter.

    The most important takeaway regarding being a Texans is that you refer to sodas properly as Coke's and never as Pop or God forbid you're one of those Pepsi people. Me personally, I using don't drink carbonated beverages without Sour Mash Whisky or Canadian Blended Whisky mixed in it. Otherwise is juice, coffee, or tea for me.

    P.S. We don't put milk in our tea. Actually we would probably argue that nothing belongs in tea beyond sugar, ice, and lemons.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    This is why the Internet can be such a dangerous place and it's important to weed through what's fact v. subjective opinion. We don't all shoot the same or have the same kits so it's best to rent or buy based on YOUR usage.
    So True Tre

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I'm an American and Texan born therefore we are in the habit of not caring about the differences between British English, American English, or Texas dialect for that matter.

    The most important takeaway regarding being a Texans is that you refer to sodas properly as Coke's and never as Pop or God forbid you're one of those Pepsi people. Me personally, I using don't drink carbonated beverages without Sour Mash Whisky or Canadian Blended Whisky mixed in it. Otherwise is juice, coffee, or tea for me.

    P.S. We don't put milk in our tea. Actually we would probably argue that nothing belongs in tea beyond sugar, ice, and lemons.
    Coke is coke everything else don't count. Hate Pepsi. Lol
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Deep in the heart of Texas, the question always is:

    "What kind of Coke do you want?"

    The correct answer: "Dr. Pepper."*

    As far as Pepsi: "That dog don't hunt."


    *Dr. Pepper originated in Waco
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Tracking power of a D8100 ought to be demonstrated with an old screw driver driven lens.
    Except for the 15 years old 80-200 AF-S, screwdriver lenses is what I use for tracking. They are cheap but work great mechanically as well as optically. $500 for a mint condition 300mm f/4 that can also be used as a weapon is a bargain in my book
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Deep in the heart of Texas, the question always is:

    "What kind of Coke do you want?"

    The correct answer: "Dr. Pepper."*

    As far as Pepsi: "That dog don't hunt."


    *Dr. Pepper originated in Waco
    I believe the joke goes two people walk into a bar in Texas and the bartender asks what kind of Coke do you want? One guy says Dr. Pepper and the other guy says Mr. Pibb... One guy walks out the bar and the other is dead.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Except for the 15 years old 80-200 AF-S, screwdriver lenses is what I use for tracking. They are cheap but work great mechanically as well as optically. $500 for a mint condition 300mm f/4 that can also be used as a weapon is a bargain in my book

    OT:

    The 300/4 AFS is a much better lens in every aspect. Try it to find out. The 300/2.8 AFS VR is even better. The differences will show very clearly on Sony's 36mp sensor.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Chad, you're more skilled than most so you can squeeze the best out of any camera that you use. Great shots by the way.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    OT:

    The 300/4 AFS is a much better lens in every aspect. Try it to find out. The 300/2.8 AFS VR is even better. The differences will show very clearly on Sony's 36mp sensor.
    The AF-S is better but more than twice as expensive and I like the warmer tones of the AF. The biggest disadvantage with the AF is that it sucks with a TC, but this is rather OT, isn't it, except that the AF-S would work fine on an A7/r/s/II as you point out. The AF isn't fun to focus manually. They both have aperture rings.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    LOL! Last thing I expected in a thread about a camera is a Texan dissertation on beverages...

    Anyway, Steve Huff has gotten his A7II review unit and has done his usual video gushing moment:
    The Sony A7II – First Look and Video! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

    The new finish on the body makes it look more heavy-duty. Styling-wise, Sony is never gonna take home any markers on the A7 series from me. I do get just a wee bit tired of hearing someone say, "It feels so much more solid than ..." over and over again.

    Can't wait to see the "in depth" review. News at eleven... ]'-)

    I expect it's a serviceable lump. Buy one, put it to use.

    G

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I find it interesting that some here maintain that only if one has used a particular
    brand of camera, can one bring something meaningful to the discussion.

    I can agree with that up to a point. I tend to read what one has written. More importantly, I tend to see the credentials of the one that has penned an opinion.

    Years of using cameras, with work for all to see, does impart a bit of knowledge and experience to the one that has produced photographic work of some merit.

    It is like telling that one cannot trust a medical doctor to prescribe appropriate treatment just because he/she has not suffered from such a disease or ailment.

    I tend to value experience and credibility and believe it can add something useful
    to a discussion within the context of that subject.

    p.s tea is always drunk on its own. Lemonade is another drink as is the lemon/lime drink. That is why there are various varieties of tea, to savour the full flavour of the product. To appreciate the palate of tea, one drinks it as tea...unadulterated. I do not refer here to the waste product bearing a yellow label and used commonly in the ' cuppa '.

    I guess it is like enjoying the different flavours of wine. I am not an expert in wine. But I
    have observed some of my British friends drooling over what must be good wine.

    Tea...I can speak about it similarly.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    except that the AF-S would work fine on an A7/r/s/II as you point out.
    I actually meant the D800/800E/810 series and not the Sony cams. It is not just the AF but there is a noticeable jump in IQ from the AFS.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Rayyan the tea comment was mostly a joke but like many good jokes there's a bit of truth in it. Most of what's "proper" is derived from some archaic point of view.

    I think a waiter in Germany reacted best when a colleague of mine tried to "pair wine" with menu items to which the waiter seemed totally confused by the notion of not just drinking whatever you like how you like. Essentially for such trivial things as a beverage why are there rules beyond - if you like it then drink it.

    I agree that general education of a topic is fine and definitely welcomed until you begin speaking from an experienced point of view in a specific nature. When it becomes clear that there's quite a bit of ignorance on the subject then you should preface it with a statement of "from what I've read, understand, or heard." Spreading misinformation knowingly or unknowingly can hurt the forum on some level as a reliable source of information and achieve the complete opposite of the intention of what this forum (from what I understand the goal to be.) What I understand about the purpose of the forum is to have open yet civil dialogue (that "dialogue" for Vivek who must like that spelling better... LOL) of our passion for photography AND to educate/share useful experiences (positive/negative.)

    I personally believe this forum does an impeccable job of that and I don't want to come off as attacking Jorgen specifically (if you took it that way Jorgen then I do sincerely apologize for not communicating that aspect effectively) and I certainly want him to continue to contribute challenging points of view (not that I'd have any say in that at all.) They they may be questions or concerns others on the fence have as well.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 7th December 2014 at 12:38.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Rayyan the tea comment was mostly a joke but like many good jokes there's a bit of truth in it. Most of what's "proper" is derived from some archaic point of view.

    I think a waiter in Germany reacted best when a colleague of mine tried to "pair wine" with menu items to which the waiter seemed totally confused by the notion of not just drinking whatever you like how you like. Essentially for such trivial things as a beverage why are there rules beyond - if you like it then drink it.

    I agree that general education of a topic is fine and definitely welcomed until you begin speaking from an experienced point of view in a specific nature. When it becomes clear that there's quite a bit of ignorance on the subject then you should preface it with a statement of "from what I've read, understand, or heard." Spreading misinformation knowingly or unknowingly can hurt the forum on some level as a reliable source of information and achieve the complete opposite of the intention of what this forum (from what I understand the goal to be.) What I understand about the purpose of the forum is to have open yet civil dialogue (that "dialogue" for Vivek who must like that spelling better... LOL) of our passion for photography AND to educate/share useful experiences (positive/negative.)

    I personally believe this forum does an impeccable job of that and I don't want to come off as attacking Jorgen specifically (if you took it that way Jorgen then I do sincerely apologize for not communicating that aspect effectively) and I certainly want him to continue to contribute challenging points of view (not that I'd have any say in that at all.) They they may be questions or concerns others on the fence have as well.
    I am (re) reading Chaucer now and that English would not be understood by many.

    [Chaucer and not Saucer and the name has nothing to do with tea. :-) ]
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am (re) reading Chaucer now and that English would not be understood by many.

    [Chaucer and not Saucer and the name has nothing to do with tea. :-) ]
    excellent Vivek. in English or Dutch?

    ...... and Tre, that was an excellent post.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am (re) reading Chaucer now and that English would not be understood by many.

    [Chaucer and not Saucer and the name has nothing to do with tea. :-) ]
    Yeah I we had to do the Canterbury deal in high school... It was a blur in hindsight and obviously my English teacher was way more into it than myself. I prefer nonfiction, foreign policy, geopolitics, and photography related education for my free reading. I'm weird like that...
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    excellent Vivek. in English or Dutch?

    ...... and Tre, that was an excellent post.
    Pre Samuel Johnson English (original version). Might as well be another language.

    In fact, quite a few words there show a lot of similarities to Dutch!

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    excellent Vivek. in English or Dutch?

    ...... and Tre, that was an excellent post.
    Thanks Jono.

    I try to be as respectful to all of the kind strangers that I've grown to view as the "bar regulars" around here (even though I can be bit edgy in real life without initially realizing a lot of the time.) Some call it youth, inexperience, lacking in some wisdom, straight craziness, etc. I can accept my own imperfection but I always lean towards the idea being properly educated because I was once that person seeking an answer beyond get a Canon/Nikon without anyone explaining why I should (being someone that has zero formal photography education.) What I do know has come from reading, watching web instruction, and good old personal experience (read: trial/error.) Whether in the form of video, a classroom, or a book I lookout it all as education and there's a responsibility in doing it properly.

    I have learned so much of what I know about photography from this very forum over the last 5 or 6 years so I'm very thankful this place exists. I look forward to the sharing of ideas and the occasional, yet almost always, respectful banter. It's been a journey from starting with a Canon Digital Rebel, moving to the G1, then eventually going to the antithesis of a DSLR in the form of a Leica M, and currently having my needs filled with Sony FE bodies.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I forgot about what camera we were talking but it is all educational for sure.

    I do realize again that Dutch is a language with a relativly short history like most European languages.

    I learned that the word camera did not originated from the Latin, namely camera obscura.
    Probably the Romans got the word from cultures before theirs. It would not surprise me, because the world is build by information of others.
    Also how many words we got from arabic culture and not to forget ciphers, algebra and mathematics. I am very gratefull for all that.

    I learned what Coke to drink in Texas, if I ever could get it through my troat.
    (I can recommend to everyone to abandon coffee and drink tea instead and preferably herbal tea.)
    But only when the time or occasion doesn't ask for a good glass of wine or a good glass of Irish whisky

    BTW I do like to shoot a Sony A7r occasionally
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    If it isn't too confusing (well it isn't as far romoved as some of the topics covered), I might as well add this here (sorry, I do not know how to use the advanced versions of camerasize.com ):

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
    Hacked A7, Hacked Sony E 24/1.8, f2.2, ISO6400, 1/200s, Ultraviolet capture, AF tracked and panned

    AF and tracking works fine even in extreme low light (UV capture requires ~7-8 stops more exposure time than visible light capture). The Sony/Zeiss 24/1.8 is usable for UV-A captures. The 24/1.8 with its rear baffle removed and the front shaved almost covers (but not quite) the FF.

    BTW, Michiel, any idea on the origins of the name, Fototoetsel? It sounds confusingly Dutch to me.
    Last edited by Vivek; 7th December 2014 at 14:00.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    I forgot about what camera we were talking but it is all educational for sure.

    I do realize again that Dutch is a language with a relativly short history like most European languages.

    I learned that the word camera did not originated from the Latin, namely camera obscura.
    Probably the Romans got the word from cultures before theirs. It would not surprise me, because the world is build by information of others.
    Also how many words we got from arabic culture and not to forget ciphers, algebra and mathematics. I am very gratefull for all that.

    I learned what Coke to drink in Texas, if I ever could get it through my troat.
    (I can recommend to everyone to abandon coffee and drink tea instead and preferably herbal tea.)
    But only when the time or occasion doesn't ask for a good glass of wine or a good glass of Irish whisky

    BTW I do like to shoot a Sony A7r occasionally
    I don't know I've become quite fond of single origin coffee - especially many of the ones from Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, and Indonesia (must be something about Lake Victoria that aids in producing great coffee.) The best coffee is grown in cooler temperate and slightly damp environments.

    I've also become quite fond of much of the Japanese Whisky that I've tried - namely The Yamasaki 18 year and The Hibiki 12 year - both are by The Suntory. That being said much of the European Whisky (or Whiskey depending on if you're asking an Irishman or Scottish fellow) is excellent of course. At the chagrin of many of my transatlantic brethren I do like a good Small Batch Bourbon as well having a soon to be fiancé that's a Kentucky native and all.

    I like my A7/A7R a lot and I am staying away from most of the user accounts of A7II outside of knowing what to expect from an A9 body.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    HiredArm; Nothing better then a great Kentucky Bourbon, one has to adapt
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    HiredArm; Nothing better then a great Kentucky Bourbon, one has to adapt
    That is very true. I have adapted and toured part of the Bourbon Trail... It's like Napa Valley for Bourbon/Whisky drinkers.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 7th December 2014 at 16:28.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    A bunch of Renaissance Men, grammarians, and excellent photographers all wrapped into one Sony forum. Who would have thought!!!!

    In all seriousness, I am enjoying the discussions as long as they remain on the respectful side.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek;
    BTW, Michiel, any idea on the origins of the name, [I
    Fototoetsel[/I]? It sounds confusingly Dutch to me.
    Fototoestel = photo apparatus (apparatus comes straight from Latin)
    I would not know were the word "toestel" comes from, probably a Germanistic word but I do know that foto/photo comes from the Greek word phōs, which means light and (photo)graphie from the greek word graphia which means writing
    So photography means literarly: writing with light. Isn't that beautiful!

    My dear late father (a poet) explaned it all to me in this beautiful poem.
    If you give me time I could try to give it a decent translation, although I doubt if I am capable.
    (some Dutch readers migt enjoy it)

    kijk
    de mens maakt zich kenbaar
    verheft zich in zijn beeld
    vertaalt afstand en ruimte
    in de greep van oog en hand
    en schrijft met licht

    kijk
    zij kijken zich de ogen uit
    leggen hun oren op straat
    zien alles en staan verbaasd
    beschrijven hun verbazing
    met licht
    de inventarisatie begint
    de hersenen vullen zich
    de gaten raken vol
    de ogen weerkaatsen de volheid
    en omschrijven hun waarheid
    met licht

    phōs graphia
    in phōs licht
    fotograferen
    schrijven met licht

    Bert Schierbeek

    Well the last 4 sentences are simple;

    phōs graphia
    in phōs light
    to photograph
    writing with light
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Michiel, Thank you!

    Your father has beautifully described street photography, among other things!

    I will share it with a couple of my dear ones here.

    Thanks a bunch!
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    actually spent a year studying Chaucer and another one Middle English as a lit major way back when:

    from the prologue to the Canterbury tales:

    "Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
    The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
    And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
    Of which vertu engendred is the flour;

    Whan Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
    Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
    The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
    Hath in the Ram his halfe cours yronne,
    And smale foweles maken melodye,
    (That slepen al the nyght with open eye)
    So priketh hem Nature in hir corages
    Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."

    not so tough to figure out and a nice bit o' poetry
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    You guys are now giving me post traumatic stress with flashbacks to high school English class...
    new album | nostatic | music
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    From Coke to Chaucer, never know what you might encounter on getdpi.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    From Coke to Chaucer, never know what you might encounter on getdpi.

    Don't forget the whisky... It's what Texans do... Drink whisky and shoot guns.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I guess I need to learn about whiskey!

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quite the lively thread

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    As founding father proper Engilsh is lofty goal but that leaves this Italian from Jersey boy out. Soooooooo that will never work. ROTFLMAO

    So just a reminder where all here to have fun. Don't get hung up on the details
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    OT:
    I always had a great interest in the historical context of how language was and is used.

    It is an error of judgement to think that there is no class - in the sense of Karl Marx - related inhernet attitude to language, especially pompous language.

    Obfuscation for example is a technique that is commonly used by the social "elite", the oligarchs, tyrants, religious leaders of all dominations, legal profession, politicians, banksters, twisted academics, you name them.

    Do not forget that reading books was not allowed to the masses for centuries and censorship of knowledge was and is even more so today in the information age a weapon of choice.

    Speaking of weapons, language itself can constitute a weapon, very much so. In general, language is a distinctive feature of the human mind to convey information and communicate.

    In the 18th century there were no schools in the southern states of America that admitted black children to its free public schools. Black literacy would prove a serious threat to the slavery system. So laws were passed that forbid slaves to learn how to read or write, and in addition making it a serious crime for others to teach them.

    Therefore,
    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of North Carolina, and it is hereby enacted by the authority of the same, That any free person, who shall hereafter teach, or attempt to teach, any slave within the State to read or write, the use of figures excepted, or shall give or sell to such slave or slaves any books or pamphlets, shall be liable to indictment in any court of record in this State having jurisdiction thereof, and upon conviction, shall, at the discretion of the court, if a white man or woman, be fined not less than one hundred dollars, nor more than two hundred dollars, or imprisoned; and if a free person of color, shall be fined, imprisoned, or whipped, at the discretion of the court, not exceeding thirty nine lashes, nor less than twenty lashes.
    II. Be it further enacted, That if any slave shall hereafter teach, or attempt to teach, any other slave to read or write, the use of figures excepted, he or she may be carried before any justice of the peace, and on conviction thereof, shall be sentenced to receive thirty nine lashes on his or her bare back.
    III. Be it further enacted, That the judges of the Superior Courts and the justices of the County Courts shall give this act in charge to the grand juries of their respective counties.


    Source: "Act Passed by the General Assembly of the State of North Carolina at the Session of 1830—1831" (Raleigh: 1831).
    Today there are roughly 35 million people on the planet held as slaves.

    2014 Global Slavery Index - Walk Free Foundation - Global Slavery Index 2014

    As for the class-conscious British society, upper class language (posh) certainly exists and still is expressed in bizarre class based shibboleths.

    Fanks for nuffink!
    Best
    G
    Last edited by Georg Baumann; 8th December 2014 at 00:07.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Georg; shocking; but it doesn't surprise me.
    Even around me in Amsterdam there are children-maids/aupairs from all over the world living with familys in their homes and working for peanuts, 7 days a week.

    BTW It is time that the A7II landed because we are straying of, although very informative and interesting.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    OT:
    I always had a great interest in the historical context of how language was and is used.

    It is an error of judgement to think that there is no class - in the sense of Karl Marx - related inhernet attitude to language, especially pompous language.

    Obfuscation for example is a technique that is commonly used by the social "elite", the oligarchs, tyrants, religious leaders of all dominations, legal profession, politicians, banksters, twisted academics, you name them.

    Do not forget that reading books was not allowed to the masses for centuries and censorship of knowledge was and is even more so today in the information age a weapon of choice.

    Speaking of weapons, language itself can constitute a weapon, very much so. In general, language is a distinctive feature of the human mind to convey information and communicate.

    In the 18th century there were no schools in the southern states of America that admitted black children to its free public schools. Black literacy would prove a serious threat to the slavery system. So laws were passed that forbid slaves to learn how to read or write, and in addition making it a serious crime for others to teach them.



    Today there are roughly 35 million people on the planet held as slaves.

    2014 Global Slavery Index - Walk Free Foundation - Global Slavery Index 2014

    As for the class-conscious British society, upper class language (posh) certainly exists and still is expressed in bizarre class based shibboleths.

    Fanks for nuffink!
    Best
    G
    Mmhh... a discussion about language and sort of a political message? Most of the stuff people rave about in this and other fora is made in parts of the world with questionable workers treatment. Just saying.
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