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Thread: The Sony A7II

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Well I've lived with both an A7 and A7r for the last year soooo I'm gonna say that I'm not mistaken.
    You did not return either or sell them and start a thread why you did that?
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    The new grip looks like it will fix one my complaints to Sony when evaluating the A7r, you simply can't use a hand grip on the body. I had the Sony hand grip with my A7r and the sony hand grip strap. If you strapped it to the grip and up to the upper strap ear it pinned your hand to where it was impossible to get near the shutter release, a really odd situation as they put a strap pickup on the grip so you would think one person would have tested this. I will be pre-ordering one to test with as soon as they hit the Sony site.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You did not return either or sell them and start a thread why you did that?
    Nah... They're in a camera bag underneath a desk I'm typing this on.

    They've managed to survive trips to three continents (Europe, Africa, and all over North America) to include an African Safari that had over 50% of it shot handheld with a Zeiss Contax Yashica 180/2.8 FLE MMJ... Mananged to get extremely sharp shots too.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Fair enough but anecdotal evidence of one person (real or otherwise) doesn't constitute a problem for all that SOME try to make it out to be. If that one guy didn't post about it then people wouldn't have such an issue... kinda like the shutter shock "issue." Few people would even know it existed if someone didn't go out of their way to create a mob of people that decided it was unbearable for them as well even when their longest lens goes to 200mm (which is very easy to handhold BTW.)
    Yet if one is heavily into night/star photography one should know about these things. As for shutter shock; when I got my A7R I noticed it pretty much immediately. I had the light and flimsy APS-C 55-210 at the time and it vibrated like madman on tripod. Again, after studying stuff in internet I found a pile of nice antidotes and my A7R + LA-EA4 + 70-400 SSM2 setup now looks like this and it works ok while I wait for EFCS on high res sensor



    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    That's the problem with many new electronics and the internet. People go out of their way to look for problems most wouldn't encounter in normal usage then demand a total redesign.
    Gotta disagree here. Both RAW compression and shutter shock are "good to know" stuff for people considering these cameras; let them decide if they are an issue for their photography. And the fact that they have been made publicly known can have a contribution on Sony fixing them.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I am really astonished about the replies here about the new A7 II.

    Is it really so difficult to see what kind of a Milestone that 5 axis image stabilisation is ? Using the chip and allowing it for all 3rd party lenses as well ?

    Hello - Good morning ? For that feature alone some other people would probably kill, respectively pay thousands of $ just to get their one important lens stabilized 4,5 stops !

    α7 Ⅱ 5-axis SteadyShot INSIDE from Sony: Official Video Release - YouTube

    And probably that is only the beginning, I am pretty sure an A7R II with same specs will follow.

    Firmware update...... people you are funny sometimes.

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    Well said. Fuji can issue a new firmware update every month, but the XT-1 will never have IBIS nor a video codec that will match Sony's XAVCs.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I wish they moved the mount further away from the grip but the angle should be a little relief.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    Gotta disagree here. Both RAW compression and shutter shock are "good to know" stuff for people considering these cameras; let them decide if they are an issue for them. And the fact that they have been made publicly known can have a contribution on Sony fixing them.
    What I'm referring to specifically is the compulsive nature of people spreading the potential issues around as a problem without ANY workarounds that affects ALL. That is a problem in itself.

    I agree that information sharing is a great thing but only when done responsibly. I've read plenty of posts of people who have never even touched an A7r (much less owned one) quoting something they read on the internet as fact for all. Again if it affects a particular person then so be it but I think those people are in the minority to be honest. There's a lot more people holding onto their A7r's than people selling them.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Well said. Fuji can issue a new firmware update every month, but the XT-1 will never have IBIS nor a video codec that will match Sony's XAVCs.
    Or a FF sensor... or FF lenses... Without redesigning them... Which requires a new body.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Nobody can probably know how effective a single chip operation is against a split operation, the text on the japanese site "seems" to preferre the split operation with OSS lenses.

    "....E-mount lens of OSS (lens in the optical camera shake correction function) lens featuring the (* 1) when worn, correction of angular camera shake (Pitch / Yaw) in the lens side, Shifutobure (X / Y) and rotational camera shake (Roll) of correction was performed in the body side, by combining the correction of lens side and the body side, to achieve the optimal 5 Jikute shake correction....."

    I just say: I am drooling about getting this for my converted 1,2/85 FD L , my 1,2/55mm, the 1,4/35mm and even more for my FD 2.0/135mm. or my FD 2,8/200mm. Probably net this is more important than the A7Ss larger pixels. But then - can anyone imagine what an A7S II would do with this ....?

    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    What I'm referring to specifically is the compulsive nature of people spreading the potential issues around as a problem without ANY workarounds that affects ALL. That is a problem in itself.

    I agree that information sharing is a great thing but only when done responsibly. I've read plenty of posts of people who have never even touched an A7r (much less owned one) quoting something they read on the internet as fact for all. Again if it affects a particular person then so be it but I think those people are in the minority to be honest. There's a lot more people holding onto their A7r's than people selling them.

    Well, I wonder who is compulsive here?
    I still have my A7R, use it a lot and like it.
    But I also know how to avoid situations in which shutter shock rears its ugly head.

    I guess we have to agree to disagree on this issue.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Stefan, Stop with that Jikutu.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I'm definitely in again on this one - hopefully this time I'll keep it.
    The IBIS makes it a perfect candidate for use with R lenses (and of course any other longer lenses). 24mp suits me well.
    a definite definite (very exciting).
    The IBIS and the shutter do it for me. Now for the wait.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    This is all fine and dandy. The camera seems to be great, certainly better than the first attempt, and I would like to buy one. Time will show. Then I ask myself: What will I use it for? It will be a great body for all my excellent old Zuiko, Nikkor and Zeiss lenses of course. Great fun that can translate into some (hopefully) nice photos. And for travel and work too, just buying some of those great, new Zeiss AF lenses for this camera, like the.... hey, wait! There ain't none!

    Well... not none, but still, it wouldn't be correct to talk about holes in the lineup. The current lens lineup reminds me more of islands in the ocean. I'm sure they are great, but wouldn't a portrait lens be kind of nice to have? Even Samsung has that. And Nikon? That ancient camera wizard that recently launched yet another museum-ready DSLR, this dying breed of imaging equipment that our grandfathers used. The last couple of years, they have launched 5 new f/1.8 primes for the 35mm format, spanning form 20 to 85mm. Do I need to mention m4/3?

    I know there are workarounds. Adapters, including the use of A-mount lenses, and Guy who is successfully using his A bodies for professional goodness. But what's the strategy? Sony's strategy? We have seen so many great products from Sony through the years, and so many failures. And the failures mostly didn't fail because they were bad products. Rather the opposite actually. The Elcaset, the MiniDisc and the Memory Stick were all nice products and often better than the competition, but the product strategy behind didn't seem to work.

    Now we have A-lenses for two different formats, E-lenses and FE-lenses. The total number of lenses would resemble those available for m4/3 and look almost impressive if they had all been for one mount, one format. But they ain't. One can of course always give them some slack for a system that is only a year old, but it isn't. The NEX system, which is what this really is, is fast approaching 5 years, and even in the digital universe, corporations the size of Sony have strategies that last longer than 12 months. Most of them anyway.

    Remember when Sony, during some financial crisis a few years ago, announced that, due to the world recession, they would put LED TVs on hold? It took only a couple of hours before Samsung issued a press release stating the opposite. That was when Sony TVs disappear from the premium shelves of stores and were replaced by Samsung. It didn't take many weeks.

    So I don't trust Sony. I trust their products. They are among the best money can buy. But I don't trust their strategies. Sometimes, I wonder if they have strategies.

    To me then, the A7 II looks like yet another great hobby camera. Fine for professional use for those who can earn the cost within the lifetime of the camera, or the lifetime of Sony's FE strategy. But for my work, and living in a market where cost levels dictate write-down of five years rather than one, I might have to trust the old horses yet again, like Nikon and Panalympus. And then, if I stumble across some unexpected cash... the A7 II or III might be what I spend it on. I hope for that

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This is all fine and dandy. The camera seems to be great, certainly better than the first attempt, and I would like to buy one. Time will show. Then I ask myself: What will I use it for? It will be a great body for all my excellent old Zuiko, Nikkor and Zeiss lenses of course. Great fun that can translate into some (hopefully) nice photos. And for travel and work too, just buying some of those great, new Zeiss AF lenses for this camera, like the.... hey, wait! There ain't none!

    Well... not none, but still, it wouldn't be correct to talk about holes in the lineup. The current lens lineup reminds me more of islands in the ocean. I'm sure they are great, but wouldn't a portrait lens be kind of nice to have? Even Samsung has that. And Nikon? That ancient camera wizard that recently launched yet another museum-ready DSLR, this dying breed of imaging equipment that our grandfathers used. The last couple of years, they have launched 5 new f/1.8 primes for the 35mm format, spanning form 20 to 85mm. Do I need to mention m4/3?

    I know there are workarounds. Adapters, including the use of A-mount lenses, and Guy who is successfully using his A bodies for professional goodness. But what's the strategy? Sony's strategy? We have seen so many great products from Sony through the years, and so many failures. And the failures mostly didn't fail because they were bad products. Rather the opposite actually. The Elcaset, the MiniDisc and the Memory Stick were all nice products and often better than the competition, but the product strategy behind didn't seem to work.

    Now we have A-lenses for two different formats, E-lenses and FE-lenses. The total number of lenses would resemble those available for m4/3 and look almost impressive if they had all been for one mount, one format. But they ain't. One can of course always give them some slack for a system that is only a year old, but it isn't. The NEX system, which is what this really is, is fast approaching 5 years, and even in the digital universe, corporations the size of Sony have strategies that last longer than 12 months. Most of them anyway.

    Remember when Sony, during some financial crisis a few years ago, announced that, due to the world recession, they would put LED TVs on hold? It took only a couple of hours before Samsung issued a press release stating the opposite. That was when Sony TVs disappear from the premium shelves of stores and were replaced by Samsung. It didn't take many weeks.

    So I don't trust Sony. I trust their products. They are among the best money can buy. But I don't trust their strategies. Sometimes, I wonder if they have strategies.

    To me then, the A7 II looks like yet another great hobby camera. Fine for professional use for those who can earn the cost within the lifetime of the camera, or the lifetime of Sony's FE strategy. But for my work, and living in a market where cost levels dictate write-down of five years rather than one, I might have to trust the old horses yet again, like Nikon and Panalympus. And then, if I stumble across some unexpected cash... the A7 II or III might be what I spend it on. I hope for that

    Just my 2 baht...
    Looking at B&H there are 14 native FE lenses available for purchase of preorder. That's all within one year's time. Seems like Sony is forming a strategy but people won't let them live their past down (not that I totally blame people for being skeptical.)

    This isn't counting the hundred of adapted lenses that people have access to. So I agree as a FF hobby platform or one for some pros the FE system works maybe better then anything else out there.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Looking at B&H there are 14 native FE lenses available for purchase of preorder. That's all within one year's time. Seems like Sony is forming a strategy but people won't let them live their past down (not that I totally blame people for being skeptical.)

    This isn't counting the hundred of adapted lenses that people have access to. So I agree as a FF hobby platform or one for some pros the FE system works maybe better then anything else out there.
    According to Sony's homepage, there are 7 FE lenses available now of which 2 are primes. Any mirrorless camera can use adapted lenses. As for strategy, which one are you talking about? The Alpha strategy, the NEX strategy or the FE strategy?

    Sony's past isn't very long ago. They came up with a usable, although nothing near complete, lens lineup for the Alphas, partly because they inherited Minolta's designs. They don't seem to develop new lenses for Alpha, SLT or whatever it's called nowadays. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    After nearly 5 years, the NEX or E lens lineup is rather mediocre with a few shining exceptions. Will there be more lenses for E?

    For FE, they have a roadmap and 7 lenses. Even for the unloved Nikon 1 there are 13 lenses currently available.

    So far, Sony have shown what Sony always show: Premium technology in a fun package.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    While camera bodies are undergoing redesigns after redesigns, I think it's smart for them to not invest too deep into developing lenses. I rather they choose the body/mount for the best reasons than making compromises on support for an existing line up. The new kid on the block gets to do that for a little while, I think. I love how they are iterating through all these versions of bodies, each time getting closer and closer to.... ???

    Meanwhile, I was watching the video about the 5-axis IBIS and was intrigued how it seems that they're able to turn each component on/off for the demonstration. I wonder if those are just mocked videos for marketing purpose, or if they are direct video clips taken out of the camera. However, that's kind of what they'll have to do with the OSS lens, right? To be able to turn on/off certain axis in the IBIS is pretty cool to me.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    According to Sony's homepage, there are 7 FE lenses available now of which 2 are primes.
    Not sure which one the 7th is but B&H has only 6 native FE lenses of which two are primes, one of them being not particularly fast.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    There are probably more lenses for the pentax Q and Pentax K ( they had a mirrorless machine), Nikon V1 is very well built, absolutely no NEX body will measure upto it. Does it matter?

    There are many who just buy Sony stuff for what they are, with no illusion about old fashioned ideas.

    Just compare how long of a song and dance Nikon fans went through to see the 16mp Nikon Df.

    It takes a very short time to get what people want in a Sony cam. There is no other innovative camera company at the moment to compare with Sony.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    Not sure which one the 7th is but B&H has only 6 native FE lenses.
    There is a power zoom.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    There is a power zoom.
    That's the seventh one, a very interesting lens, particularly for video. Apparently, that one isn't shipping yet either, so Joris is right; there are only six.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    According to Sony's homepage, there are 7 FE lenses available now of which 2 are primes. Any mirrorless camera can use adapted lenses. As for strategy, which one are you talking about? The Alpha strategy, the NEX strategy or the FE strategy?

    Sony's past isn't very long ago. They came up with a usable, although nothing near complete, lens lineup for the Alphas, partly because they inherited Minolta's designs. They don't seem to develop new lenses for Alpha, SLT or whatever it's called nowadays. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    After nearly 5 years, the NEX or E lens lineup is rather mediocre with a few shining exceptions. Will there be more lenses for E?

    For FE, they have a roadmap and 7 lenses. Even for the unloved Nikon 1 there are 13 lenses currently available.

    So far, Sony have shown what Sony always show: Premium technology in a fun package.
    You're forgetting the Samyang and Zeiss Loxia lenses... Not autofocus but native lenses nonetheless. I don't know that Panasonic nor Olympus had 14 lenses combined in Micro 4/3 within the first year.

    As for strategy there is only the Alpha strategy now. I won't pretend that it's perfect because it's not. There's the A and (F)E mount - to which all of the E mount lenses can also be used in crop mode. There's the A mount lenses that offer AF and FF coverage. Yes there's still room to grow and yes there are gaps but we are talking about a system that is a year old.

    If you're counting the APS-C E-mount lenses then they have the bulk of the gaps covered as well. There's not much I'm interested in in the crop system but it's not really made for me either.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    so А99 being a FF camera does not have IBIS ?
    Never could get a significant benefit from the IBIS on A900 or A99. Plus the A99 is a bit behind in low-light performance vs non-SLT implementations of the Sony Exmors.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Now, here's an interesting comparison with the other "new kid on the block", the Samsung NX1. The Samsung has a crop sensor, 1.5x, so the Sony is undoubtedly nicer for legacy lenses. The Samsung also cannot be fitted with a Speed Booster due to lens mount restrictions.

    First, the normal zooms. In Sony's case, it's a 24-70mm f/4, a combo that weighs 1,029 grams. The Samsung sports a 16-50mm f/2.0-2.8 (roughly 24-75mm f/2.8-4.0 eqv.) and weighs 1,232 grams.



    Then the telephoto comparison. The Sony with the 70-200mm f/4 weighing 1,439 grams. The Samsung has a the 50-150mm f/2.8 mounted (roughly 75-225mm f/4.0 eqv.) and weighs 1,525 grams.



    Prices should be roughly comparable as well. As we all know very well now, the Sony includes IBIS, probably a very good one, while the Samsung relies on OIS, again making the Sony superior for legacy glass. The Sony is 24MP and the Samsung 28MP (backlit sensor).

    But... even with the improvements of the Sony ergonomics, and without having tried any of these cameras, the Samsung seems to be the winner in that department. The Samsung also has a battery with almost twice the capacity (13.6 vs. 7.3 Wh), it includes a "good, old-fashioned" top LCD, shoots 15fps, shoots 4K internally with the new, very space saving H.265 video codec, has a pop-up flash etc. etc. etc.

    There are too few lenses available for the NX too of course, only 12 at the moment, not including the two pictured above, which are both new (December delivery?). However, it does include an 85mm f/1.4 and a couple of other good primes.

    This is not saying that the A7 II is bad camera. It's absolutely the opposite. But, if I should choose a camera to live with day after day, for all kinds of assignments, and should choose a mirrorless from one of these two electronics giants, it would be an easy choice for me. That is what makes the Sony look like a hobby camera and if Sony doesn't fix that with the next iteration of the A-series (the A9?), I see no long term future for these other than as an alternative to Leica and for special use, like with the low light friendly A7s. That isn't bad in itself, but I don't think that was Sony's ambition when they acquired the camera division of Konica-Minolta.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Jorgen, You are on the record here(this forum) that you only buy stuff that is outdated. There is no chance of you are remotely being interested in either Samsung or Sony. So there is no danger any of these would be actually used for any assignments any time in the near future ( ie about 4 years).

    Sony gear is not in a " hobby" category. You may want to check some other fine manufacturers who cater to that segment.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Why would someone who "doesn't trust Sony" even consider something from Samsung, perhaps the only company whose reputation is lower than those in the petrochemical and tobacco industries?
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Jorgen, You are on the record here(this forum) that you only buy stuff that is outdated. There is no chance of you are remotely being interested in either Samsung or Sony. So there is no danger any of these would be actually used for any assignments any time in the near future ( ie about 4 years).

    Sony gear is not in a " hobby" category. You may want to check some other fine manufacturers who cater to that segment.
    Spot on, Vivek, spot on. None of these can compete with my D2Xs anyway
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    Why would someone who "doesn't trust Sony" even consider something from Samsung, perhaps the only company whose reputation is lower than those in the petrochemical and tobacco industries?
    I trust neither, nor do I trust Panasonic, which I currently use (and who kept one of my cameras for repair for 6 months), but Samsung has produced what seems to be a very usable apparatus, one that would be very useful for much of my work. Still, I have learned from experience that it pays off to keep a couple of Nikon bodies just in case

    There's always a "but" with Sony. The A7s is fantastic for video and low light stills, "but" you need an external box to shoot 4K. The A7r is pocket sized medium format, more or less, "but" it says "click clack" when in use and ergonomics suck. I have a GH3 that is inferior in almost every way compared to any A7. On paper. "But" ergonomics are fantastic, the battery goes on and on, it focuses faster than greased lightning and I can use it to hammer nails with. It's cheap also because, as Vivek points out, I only buy ancient, obsolete technology

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Too bad we can't throw all these camera bodies into a futuristic machine and cherry pick which features we would like from each.

    Even with that, though, somebody will find it lacking.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I trust neither, nor do I trust Panasonic, which I currently use (and who kept one of my cameras for repair for 6 months), but Samsung has produced what seems to be a very usable apparatus, one that would be very useful for much of my work. Still, I have learned from experience that it pays off to keep a couple of Nikon bodies just in case

    There's always a "but" with Sony. The A7s is fantastic for video and low light stills, "but" you need an external box to shoot 4K. The A7r is pocket sized medium format, more or less, "but" it says "click clack" when in use and ergonomics suck. I have a GH3 that is inferior in almost every way compared to any A7. On paper. "But" ergonomics are fantastic, the battery goes on and on, it focuses faster than greased lightning and I can use it to hammer nails with. It's cheap also because, as Vivek points out, I only buy ancient, obsolete technology
    There's a "but" with every camera on the market! Sony seem to be working harder than any other maker right now to resolve them. Samsung are also putting up a great fight. The rest will be left fighting for the crumbs.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Now, here's an interesting comparison with the other "new kid on the block", the Samsung NX1. The Samsung has a crop sensor, 1.5x, so the Sony is undoubtedly nicer for legacy lenses. The Samsung also cannot be fitted with a Speed Booster due to lens mount restrictions.

    Prices should be roughly comparable as well. As we all know very well now, the Sony includes IBIS, probably a very good one, while the Samsung relies on OIS, again making the Sony superior for legacy glass. The Sony is 24MP and the Samsung 28MP (backlit sensor).
    IBIS will not just benefit legacy lenses. It will be also be a HUGE benefit to FE mount prime lenses, none of which are stabilised. This is critical for hand held video.

    The show-stopper with the Samsung NX1 (particularly for video) is that their primes do not have IS.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    IBIS will not just benefit legacy lenses. It will be also be a HUGE benefit to FE mount prime lenses, none of which are stabilised. This is critical for hand held video.

    The show-stopper with the Samsung NX1 (particularly for video) is that their primes do not have IS.
    I agree, and in this respect it's a 2 lens system, plus the 85mm for portraits. This is also why I keep coming back to m4/3 and Nikon; those two systems in combination work very, very well and offer any option I can think of expect a compact 35mm camera with IBIS and great video

    That's why I'm here discussing the Sony to start with
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    The NX1 is classic Samsung. "Just throw everything we have at it because people like spec lists".

    Sony is becoming the camera iteration company. Maybe they need the profits to fund the development of more cameras. I the fact they are shrinking these technologies. But bemoan the fact they are ignoring boring things like relatively cheap primes and firmware polishes.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by sloppywmu View Post
    The NX1 is classic Samsung. "Just throw everything we have at it because people like spec lists".

    Sony is becoming the camera iteration company. Maybe they need the profits to fund the development of more cameras. I the fact they are shrinking these technologies. But bemoan the fact they are ignoring boring things like relatively cheap primes and firmware polishes.
    Both of those corporations have huge R&D departments that come up with new, bleeding edge technology more or less on a daily basis. To pay for all those techies, and to stay ahead of the other monster, they pack whatever cool new invention they can think of into as many products as they can, trying to convince the consumers, us, that this is needed to take photos, listen to music, brush our teeth or whatever. And since we all have dysfunctional memories, we forget the wonderful photos we took with the OM-1 and a 50mm some 40 years ago, and how simple technology can be and still work very satisfactory.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I think you nailed it Jorgen. I'm starting to believe the sweet spot is two years behind the bleeding edge.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Both of those corporations have huge R&D departments that come up with new, bleeding edge technology more or less on a daily basis.
    They are truly evil!
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Then there is no point in looking at it, is there? If the seller won't ship then what is the point?
    The point is that you can compare market prices and Ebay is also a great source of information when you want to know specifications and what kind of accessories exists : that a given item isn't shipping now to my country doesn't mean that there won't be another vendor selling it here in the coming days. They are rendering the market less transparent, aka less free. They prevent customers to be well informed. Earlier, there was a filter to choose between shipping worldwide or not. Now this option has disappeared : they are making the choice for me and I don't like it. Why should they prevent me to just see an item ? In what is it their business whether the vendor will agree to sell it to me or not ? If I had the vendor's email, I could always try to send them an email and negotiate.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    The point is that you can compare market prices and Ebay is also a great source of information when you want to know specifications and what kind of accessories exists : that a given item isn't shipping now to my country doesn't mean that there won't be another vendor selling it here in the coming days. They are rendering the market less transparent, aka less free. They prevent customers to be well informed. Earlier, there was a filter to choose between shipping worldwide or not. Now this option has disappeared : they are making the choice for me and I don't like it. Why should they prevent me to just see an item ? In what is it their business whether the vendor will agree to sell it to me or not ? If I had the vendor's email, I could always try to send them an email and negotiate.
    You Madam or Sir, just do not know how to use ebay. Your difficulties are squarely based on the problems with your browser and its settings, it looks like. No sane company will be posting emails of the vendors or buyers online.

    I posted the number for the L plate for Tre (and anyone) who can buy it if interested.

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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You Madam or Sir, just do not know how to use ebay. Your difficulties are squarely based on the problems with your browser and its settings, it looks like. No sane company will be posting emails of the vendors or buyers online.

    I posted the number for the L plate for Tre (and anyone) who can buy it if interested.
    You can have exchanges with vendors through Ebay. Some have a website or a store on EBay where you find contact information outside of Ebay. I have already exchanged with several China dealers or with Kenmore Cameras in the US for instance.

    I followed your number and this is where I got the EBay warning preventing me access.

    This is OT, so I will leave it there.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    And since we all have dysfunctional memories, we forget the wonderful photos we took with the OM-1 and a 50mm some 40 years ago, and how simple technology can be and still work very satisfactory.
    The OM-1 was state of the art at that time. Nothing "simple" about it.

    Olympus OM1(n) SLR camera - Part I

    Olympus Optical Co. claimed a reduction of 35 per cent in volume compared with the average SLR and a similar reduction in weight.
    Here is a more dated thought.

    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    ― Omar Khayyam

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    MMm since Sony has now a big share of Olympus and since the five axis stabilisators have been included by Olympus, they have probably got some know how from Olympus. I doubt the Sony IBIS is entirely designed by them from scratch, even if Olympus declared some weeks ago that they were not sharing camera knowledge with Sony. Of course, Sony will had to adapt the principles to the A7 bodies.
    I'm well aware of Sony stake on Olympus, but they have continuously denied sharing R&D outside medical imaging area. There already have been reports that things like how the IBIS is driven is completely different in the new Sony implementation. Anyway, having Oly ownership cannot be bad, if anything that should discourage any patent trolling between the companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Concerning what you name hybrid stabilisation : on Olympus cameras, you can use IBIS with legacy glass and then set the focal length manually (even while filming now). You can also mount stabilized Panasonic glass with OIS, even if the lens doesn't have a physical switch to power on the mecanism. You do it from the menu (where I think that you can choose between the two systems).
    Just checked the M1 manual and it does not clearly tell everything about how the camera operates when stabilized lens is attached, but it appears to me that it cannot "share responsibilies" like Sony can (pitch and yaw by lens, rest by sensor). Oly manual only speaks about "lens OSS on/off switch being given priority".

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    while i enjoy sony new products and tech. i do fear for them sometimes. how they can re-coup the R&D cost... or may be they dont, lol, look at their balance sheet (sony as a whole).

    lets hope they can keep up the pace and attack. remember what happened with A900, then A850... it was ages before a99 came out... a lot users were disappointed.

    but...and a big but... they can launch anything they want; better...worse... any newer camera/tech comes out now will not automatically mean my current kit will stop taking pictures that i am currently happy with.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    I'm well aware of Sony stake on Olympus, but they have continuously denied sharing R&D outside medical imaging area. There already have been reports that things like how the IBIS is driven is completely different in the new Sony implementation. Anyway, having Oly ownership cannot be bad, if anything that should discourage any patent trolling between the companies.


    Just checked the M1 manual and it does not clearly tell everything about how the camera operates when stabilized lens is attached, but it appears to me that it cannot "share responsibilies" like Sony can (pitch and yaw by lens, rest by sensor). Oly manual only speaks about "lens OSS on/off switch being given priority".
    Well, interview is just marketing, so I don't believe every word they say in those interviews. I find it weird that just a few weeks before the issuing of the Sony five axes IBIS, it was Olympus who declared that they weren't sharing any camera knowledge with Sony. I have read several of their papers at the time when Sony bought the share they have in Olympus and concerning the photo business they were clearly saying that they would try to find synergy in the camera business. There is at least two domains where they are uniting their strength : the compact business and the distribution and support service worldwide. However now that the compact business has completely plunged, may be it's no more actual.

    Concerning the new A7II IBIS, I have now seen the diagram published, particularly particularly the one explaining how they are combining OIS and IBIS and agree that it is different than what has been achieved in the OM-D line. They may have got some cue from Olympus, or not, but it is clear that they have added something to it.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Concerning the new A7II IBIS, I have now seen the diagram published, particularly particularly the one explaining how they are combining OIS and IBIS and agree that it is different than what has been achieved in the OM-D line. They may have got some cue from Olympus, or not, but it is clear that they have added something to it.
    Sony combo/hybrid-solution sounds pretty smart, assuming it really combines best of both worlds and they do not compete. One could assume that for example "panning stabilization mode" in FE 70-200/4 OSS is propably better optimized than when done in sensor and maybe (just quessing) it can compensate bigger movement in pitch/yaw.

    As for Oly vs. Sony maybe IBIS-sharing, who really knows what is going on behind the scenes; I do not think we'll see conclusive proof one way or the other. Competitively Oly/m43 lost one key differentiator yesterday as they are no longer the only mirrorless system with IBIS. I've heard the argument "IBIS gives X stop advantage and thus makes m43 equal to APS-C or FF" propably million+1 times. Now that IBIS is in 4x bigger sensor in camera not much bigger than Oly M1.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I don't understand the speculation that Sony is receiving help from Olympus in regards IBIS.

    Sony has used sensor based stabilization for years. In their Alpha line and video cameras. There was no talk before about the a99 borrowing technology from Olympus.

    Here is a Sony tech page on SteadyShot from 2010 and the a900:

    Sony Alpha | Technologies | Super SteadyShotT Inside

    The system in the a7II is just a slightly more advanced version. There is no magical knowledge involved here. The engineers just worked hard to advance the amount of stops recovered and incorporate the system into the a7.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Why people care if the tech is from Oly or not? I care if it benefits me, the end user. I couldn't care any less if it's original or borrowed.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by sloppywmu View Post
    I don't understand the speculation that Sony is receiving help from Olympus in regards IBIS.

    Sony has used sensor based stabilization for years. In their Alpha line and video cameras. There was no talk before about the a99 borrowing technology from Olympus.

    Here is a Sony tech page on SteadyShot from 2010 and the a900:

    Sony Alpha | Technologies | Super SteadyShotT Inside

    The system in the a7II is just a slightly more advanced version. There is no magical knowledge involved here. The engineers just worked hard to advance the amount of stops recovered and incorporate the system into the a7.
    There is such talk because :
    1) Olympus were the first to introduce five axis of stabilization instead of three.
    2) Sony has bought a lot of Olympus shares when Olympus was in dire straight due to a financial scandal. They are mainly interested in the medical activities of Olympus, but when the deal was made, the project said that they would try to find synergies in the imaging department too.

    PS : I don't care either when it comes to taking pictures, provided the stabilization works well. I just find it interesting to understand how these big corporations manage their R&D, how they are linked together or not. But most probably we will never know, I agree.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Sony didn't invest millions into Olympus just so they can sit patiently on the sidelines humming Kumbaya folks. There is a reason for every dollar invested at this level. It is either for a direct profit return or a technology transfer. Frequently for both.

    For the record, Sony did NOT invent the transistor, the integrated circuit, the RAM chip, or silicon camera sensors either. This does not mean they don't make some of the best ones out there....
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I only have one comment to make. Why did they keep the AA filter? A real mistake, imho and a reason why I won't be upgrading any time soon.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    Sony didn't invest millions into Olympus just so they can sit patiently on the sidelines humming Kumbaya folks. There is a reason for every dollar invested at this level. It is either for a direct profit return or a technology transfer. Frequently for both.

    For the record, Sony did NOT invent the transistor, the integrated circuit, the RAM chip, or silicon camera sensors either. This does not mean they don't make some of the best ones out there....
    Could not have said this better!

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I clearly remember at the time having read that Sony would collaborate with Olympus on IBIS. Maybe that news was accurate or not. Or I got it wrong.

    Anyways, as Olympus' IBIS works so well I certainly hope that Sony's does likewise.
    However, I should wait for reviews based on experience whether that is so before putting in an order for the A7II.
    With best regards, K-H.

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