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Thread: The Sony A7II

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I quite agree Tom. Too Fast. Mind you, they seem much more controlled with the "pro" cameras; the A900 was around for years as has been the A99

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    As someone having owned an A7s and A7 for just some weeks I agree with those who do not like Sonys product cycle philosophy.
    The A7II doesnt make my A7 a worse camera but it decreases ist value when I might want to upgrade to another Body. And it also reduces the chances for really much effort to improve the A7 vs Firmware in the future.

    For me the policy makes it harder to Switch to the A7II (even though there are some good reasons for the A7II) because in spring we have to expect the next evolution step/the rumoured A9?.

    Changing products so often - IMO - makes it easier for the camera Producer to throw something on the market. If something doesnt work well - they can improve it with the next model. And the customer pays for it.
    Shutter to loud? bajonet too weak? doesnt matter, when the A7III Comes People Forget about the Problems they had with the A7/A7II.

    Another example: I wonder why I paid for OSS in the 70200 and 2470. If it had bean clear that there are bodies with OSS Sony could have made those lenses somewhat smaller and offer them for a lower Price.

    Sorry, bu I had to say it.

    Looking at my own number of cameras, I just realized this. Complaints about prices, new models and such come from people with too many cameras with very little use of them.

    Sony is the only innovative company at the moment and it comes with its own characteristics.

    Let us face it, they are not fooling people like Hasselblad or Leica by repackaging someone else' cameras for a premium or sticking to the old SLR stuff like Canikon.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Guys I love the speed of these products. One main reason lets take the A7r if this was a Leica product we would be stuck with it for maybe 2 years before improvements are made. Look at Canon they can't get a new body out for years lately. I love Sony is doing it yearly at some point you will get one you like or need. Does not make the old ones not work anymore. Okay resale value is the biggest bitch. Well go buy a new car you lose 20 percent of its value just driving off the dealers lot. Lenses yes expect holding value. Digital cameras are as disposable as diapers today, get used to it and thank you very much Sony now give me my A7r replacement now. It has its flaws I want a new one fixed. So I lose my shirt on resale that's my problem not there's.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well go buy a new car you lose 20 percent of its value just driving off the dealers lot.


    Just exactly how much % the Leica S2 lose and how much does it translate in Euros or US $. The buy/sell section gives a glimpse.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Looking at my own number of cameras, I just realized this. Complaints about prices, new models and such come from people with too many cameras with very little use of them.

    Sony is the only innovative company at the moment and it comes with its own characteristics.

    Let us face it, they are not fooling people like Hasselblad or Leica by repackaging someone else' cameras for a premium or sticking to the old SLR stuff like Canikon.
    If the definition of innovation is the quantity of new features and buttons per 3 months than I agree.

    edit: I think the last sentence doesnt say what I intended to say, so Forget it and replace it by: I dont see how Sony is more innovative than other brands.
    Last edited by Paratom; 5th December 2014 at 04:51.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    If the definition of innovation is the quantity of new features and buttons per 3 months than I agree.
    Why so cynical? Being an early adopter has it's price but also the advantage of knowing you have the latest/greatest camera. If you're not willing to pay for that you should maybe adopt my strategy and skip 2-3 generations before getting a new camera. I still use on old A850 and maybe it will be succeeded by an a7II (but not sure yet). Thereby I skipped the A99 and a7 first series but also saved quite a bundle.

    And tell me, which other brand has a full frame camera with IBIS on which you can almost adapt many legacy lenses. That innovation is worth something as well.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Looking at my own number of cameras, I just realized this. Complaints about prices, new models and such come from people with too many cameras with very little use of them.
    I'm inclined to agree Vivek, I shift 'em if I'm not using them as fast as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Sony is the only innovative company at the moment and it comes with its own characteristics.
    Well. Olympus and Panasonic seem to be working hard as well, Lots of ideas and some decent kit. IBIS and some really excellent lenses (lots of them)

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    There are good points to made on both sides of the fast upgrade cycle, but if I had to choose between what Sony are doing vs what Canon are (not) doing it's a no-brainer for me, and for the record I still have my 1ds2 and 1ds3, as well as an A7r and backup
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post


    Just exactly how much % the Leica S2 lose and how much does it translate in Euros or US $. The buy/sell section gives a glimpse.
    After roughly 3 years of use I sold my S2 for about 60% of the price I paid for it. I assume thats the percentage I would get for the 6 week old A7 (however I wont sell it at the Moment).

    I think the word "disposable" is the key. I dont like the tendency the industry sells us things with the Intention to replace them after a short time.
    I even go so far that they will NOT put all innovations they have into the product, because they want to earn money multiple times. They just offer enough to make people switch, and then 3 months later the do the same thing again.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    If the definition of innovation is the quantity of new features and buttons per 3 months than I agree.
    IBIS, full electronic shutter. huge pixels. etc

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Why so cynical? Being an early adopter has it's price but also the advantage of knowing you have the latest/greatest camera. If you're not willing to pay for that you should maybe adopt my strategy and skip 2-3 generations before getting a new camera. I still use on old A850 and maybe it will be succeeded by an a7II (but not sure yet). Thereby I skipped the A99 and a7 first series but also saved quite a bundle.

    And tell me, which other brand has a full frame camera with IBIS on which you can almost adapt many legacy lenses. That innovation is worth something as well.
    OK,
    I didnt want to say that the Sony would be not innovative. They are. I still think others are as well (and I include Leica, Nikon, Olympus here).
    I personally also use the A7-system because I like the small size and sometimes want to use zooms and AF an longer focal lengths than I have for my Leica M.
    In regards of using all kinds of lenses on the A7 ... Most of those lenses work better on native bodies (in case of rangefinder lenses they work better on the M) or in case of SLR lenses it can lead to a funny size relation between lens and Body. I can see to use a T/S lens on an A7 but other than that my M-Adapter is collecting dust but other than than I dont see much sense and much prefer native Sony FE lenses.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Ok, maybe someone can help me out here. I looked at the youtube video that was linked to few posts ago, and maybe I missed something, but I still don't see what the fuss is about with the new phase detection and stabilization systems when slowly panning over a garden gnome in perfect lighting. Also, the girl walking towards the camera in the opening shots is walking at a slower pace than usual, so the AF and phase detection systems aren't stressed.

    The 7II looks like a nice camera to have for most things, but if the AF is 30% better than when taking pics of a slow moving turtle who is moving horizontal to the camera, than the advance is not much of an advance. I may also venture to say that some of the "new" advances are geared towards making photographers lazier; the camera companies are appealing to the lowest common denominator of picture takers because they are responsible for their corporate bottom line.

    My a900 is getting long in the tooth, and for water polo and swimming shots, I have to wring whatever I can out of my camera and brain, not just point and shoot. The 7II won't help me when a water polo ball is being passed around at lightening speeds if I cannot anticipate the action, even then the camera won't be able to see what my eyes see. Sometimes I have even taken to shooting with both eyes open in the hopes that I can see / anticipate where the ball is going next (guess that is just a hold over from having been trained on an M6 and being able to see what is outside of the frame lines) but then my eyes get tired.

    I love my A mount lenses but I hate the weight of the a900 with the battery grip and a 70-200/2.8 G. If Zeiss made a 100-300/2.8 in A mount I would buy it before anything else if I had the money, in spite of the weight.

    If the goal of the 7II is a lighter newer system, I wish Sony the best. If the bodies last 1/2 as long as the a900, the new system will be a success. That said, if the 7II could handle the A mount lenses with aplomb, it had a stop or two faster new lenses, and it was better geared to what I need the new body for, I would consider it. Otherwise, I will let you guys figure things out for the rest of us.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Mostly its just a speed improvement
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Guy, I understand your need to use one system so you can swap lenses, batteries, etc. I just don't see what the fuss is about, especially since the you tube videos and the beta tester's photos do not reveal much.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    After roughly 3 years of use I sold my S2 for about 60% of the price I paid for it. I assume thats the percentage I would get for the 6 week old A7 (however I wont sell it at the Moment).

    I think the word "disposable" is the key. I dont like the tendency the industry sells us things with the Intention to replace them after a short time.
    I even go so far that they will NOT put all innovations they have into the product, because they want to earn money multiple times. They just offer enough to make people switch, and then 3 months later the do the same thing again.
    40% of a Leica S is a lot of cash in real terms!

    Did you make one satisfactory (to you) picture with the A7s with its very high ISO capability? If the answer is yes, it is worth every cent.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    Guy, I understand your need to use one system so you can swap lenses, batteries, etc. I just don't see what the fuss is about, especially since the you tube videos and the beta tester's photos do not reveal much.
    Well the A7 original version was very very close to my AF needs but I needed faster. The A77II rocked the house but I wanted to get back to the FE camera so I am thinking this is it with a 30 percent increase in AF tracking that was my ticket. Having two different cameras was more a hassle than it was worth. Will see if it does it . Otherwise I will get a A77II again, there certainly cheap enough
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Guy, when I shoot swimming or water polo (purely for fun though I should charge) I notice that I am the only one out there shooting with a FF camera. The 77II appeals to me because then the 70-200/2.8 would be a 300. If I bought the slowish lenses that expanded to 400, the reach would be longer yet. Even the 77II won't help anticipate the shots, but it may get me there a fraction of a second sooner.

    Maybe.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    40% of a Leica S is a lot of cash in real terms!

    Did you make one satisfactory (to you) picture with the A7s with its very high ISO capability? If the answer is yes, it is worth every cent.
    Yes, the s-System is expensive butthe Image Quality you can achieve with MF really stands out in my eyes. By the way a new sensor-Format, lenses where you dont have to do any Focus fine adjustment because the Information is safed on a chip and automatically controlled, a MF camera in this size and weather-sealed, is pretty innovative IMO. Of course it Comes at a high Price and its a luxury to use something like this as a hobby-shooter.

    Regarding the A7s - I have used ISO 6400 a couple of times and I do like the hih ISO capabilities of the A7s (I added the A7 because I though to Need more Resolution sometimes but if I use the A-System it is the A7s 90% of the times. But its winter now.)
    I wish the A-series had a few less Buttons and menues, and I wish I could set a Limit for exposure time in auto-iso, other than that its a very nice camera. I also like the 24-70 a lot, to me it seems much better than I thought it was from reading Reviews.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    We just compared the high ISO between the A7s and the Nikon D700 (you may be too young to remember it). identical shots etc. there was some dispute, but basically the A7s had 1 stop advantage over the d700 so perhaps it was choosing s 12 MP sensor which was Sony's brainwave here.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    We just compared the high ISO between the A7s and the Nikon D700 (you may be too young to remember it). identical shots etc. there was some dispute, but basically the A7s had 1 stop advantage over the d700 so perhaps it was choosing s 12 MP sensor which was Sony's brainwave here.
    No, Jono, it isn't that ordinary as you make it out to be. You can not stick a tiny CV 12 or 15 on the D700 (you can try Cosina's F mount versions but it will surely damage the mirror when it comes down after a shot) and get decent images. There is no shutter noise. The package is tiny. You can get wonderful high ISO HD videos. With an additional recorder you can get 4K video. The list goes on and on.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    We just compared the high ISO between the A7s and the Nikon D700 (you may be too young to remember it). identical shots etc. there was some dispute, but basically the A7s had 1 stop advantage over the d700 so perhaps it was choosing s 12 MP sensor which was Sony's brainwave here.
    What I find interesting is that everybody wants high ISO but state how bad/old the 5dIII sensor is....forgetting the 5dIII sensor has better DR than many Nikons and Sony-sensor-based cameras as soon as you get higher ISO400. And the AF is hard to beat.
    The D700 I also remember of an extremly reliable camera, good high ISO, accurate AF etc.
    So still in my view the main "Innovation" of the A7 series is ist smaller bodies and lenses for People who can live with f4.0 zooms (I can) and EVF.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    What I find interesting is that everybody wants high ISO but state how bad/old the 5dIII sensor is....forgetting the 5dIII sensor has better DR than many Nikons and Sony-sensor-based cameras as soon as you get higher ISO400. And the AF is hard to beat.
    The D700 I also remember of an extremly reliable camera, good high ISO, accurate AF etc.
    So still in my view the main "Innovation" of the A7 series is ist smaller bodies and lenses for People who can live with f4.0 zooms (I can) and EVF.
    Do not forget: Way too many buttons unlike the D700 or the 5DIII.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    No, Jono, it isn't that ordinary as you make it out to be. You can not stick a tiny CV 12 or 15 on the D700 (you can try Cosina's F mount versions but it will surely damage the mirror when it comes down after a shot) and get decent images. There is no shutter noise. The package is tiny. You can get wonderful high ISO HD videos. With an additional recorder you can get 4K video. The list goes on and on.
    Well, but then you can put a 70-200/2.8VRII zoom on the D700 and shoot sports, and you can even see the subject in the moment between the first and the second Image - in real time You can even see your f-stop, exp-time and WB on the top-Display, without having to turn the camera and activate the back Display.
    I dont see how one is better than the other - just different Systems for different Needs -IMO.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Do not forget: Way too many buttons unlike the D700 or the 5DIII.
    You are right..but for some reason ist much easier for me to understand and use those more "tradional" user Interfaces. The Buttons seem in the right places, and also most of them are marked. But yes, I could live with less Buttons.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    News update we have movement now


    Starting form today the worldwide first A7II are in Stock at Amazon Japan. As next US readers will get their cameras from December 9. European readers will get them from December 17 and Canadian readers from December 18. Full rpeorder list and shipment info below. P.S.: There is also a new real world sample gallery posted on Dpreview.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Honestly one of the very very few times i am actually excited to get a new camera. Now that spans about 40 years. LOL
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    You are right..but for some reason ist much easier for me to understand and use those more "tradional" user Interfaces. The Buttons seem in the right places, and also most of them are marked. But yes, I could live with less Buttons.
    You give the impression that you spend more time complaining about a Sony cam than actually use it.

    The buttons, layouts and operational details are listed in the specifications. I read them before buying one.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You give the impression that you spend more time complaining about a Sony cam than actually use it.

    The buttons, layouts and operational details are listed in the specifications. I read them before buying one.
    If I didnt like it overall than I wouldnt own the A7s. I still dont have to find everything super duper and so much better than cameras from other brands, do I?

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Looking at my own number of cameras, I just realized this. Complaints about prices, new models and such come from people with too many cameras with very little use of them.

    Sony is the only innovative company at the moment and it comes with its own characteristics.

    Let us face it, they are not fooling people like Hasselblad or Leica by repackaging someone else' cameras for a premium or sticking to the old SLR stuff like Canikon.
    I think it is not the only one, what about Olympus ? But I agree, there is not much to expect from the big two.

    As for your first paragraph. It is neither fair not courtous for the other users of this forum.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    We just compared the high ISO between the A7s and the Nikon D700 (you may be too young to remember it). identical shots etc. there was some dispute, but basically the A7s had 1 stop advantage over the d700 so perhaps it was choosing s 12 MP sensor which was Sony's brainwave here.
    Huh? Jono I am so surprised to read this statement I almost sprayed my keyboard with the morning coffee! You sure you and the mates didn't have a couple extra pints down at the pub and get the images confused?

    I owned and used a D700 a few years back as my D3 backup for client work over a couple of years. While it was a nice camera, it wasn't anything even close to this a7s I am using today in the high ISO, low noise department. Not even on the same playing field, dude!

    To start off with, the D700 has an ISO sensitivity range of ISO 200 to ISO 6400; can be set to "ISO-equivalent 25,600" but use that setting at your own risk - the dynamics of the photos at ISO's that high were sadly lacking, with the dynamic range gone, and the colors getting real thin very quick as the ISO rose. For me, ISO 6400 was really pushing it too far for regular use with my D700. Even at ISO 3200 there were times the noise got challenging if I hadn't perfectly nailed the exposure. I felt my D3 at the time was the better high ISO camera of my two. There I probably would give you a stop or even two of difference.

    Move the technology forward almost four years, and we have the A7S. This camera vs a Nikon D700 isn't even a fair contest. The A7S can shoot at a sensitivity range of ISO 100 – 409600 with low noise and an unprecedented 15+ stops of dynamic range. I routinely shoot the a7s for client work at ISO settings above ISO 12,800 without fear. I use S-Log2 most of the time, so my minimum ISO is 3200, and I go up from there as necessary. The final files are amazingly clean with proper post processing once a little NR is applied, with excellent dynamic range.

    One stop advantage? Naa... if we are talking about client usable images it is much more than that.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    Huh? Jono I am so surprised to read this statement I almost sprayed my keyboard with the morning coffee! You sure you and the mates didn't have a couple extra pints down at the pub and get the images confused?
    hi Chuck. we did the comparisons in poor light at 6400 ISO on a tripod rather carefully. Certainly I was very surprised (I used to have a D700 too and never much liked it). the dynamic range was a little better on the Sony, the noise almost the same as was the colour. Memory is one thing, but this was a proper comparison

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You give the impression that you spend more time complaining about a Sony cam than actually use it.

    The buttons, layouts and operational details are listed in the specifications. I read them before buying one.
    I've never yet bought a camera from just reading specifications or "operational details" and button layouts, and I seriously doubt you have either in many a year

    In fact, I usually find it takes me a couple of months of using a camera in the field to decide if I like it enough to keep it or not. These new camera bodies are far too complex to ever understand or digest just from reading specifications or watching someone else's videos. I never know the whole truth until I dig in and get my feet wet making photos. Even a day or two of evaluation with a rental doesn't tell me nearly the whole story, though it is a good start.

    Choosing a film camera the differences were not nearly as complex as they are with digital. Back then, the button layouts and operational details were all that counted. Today you choose your body, your "film look" and processing all in the same time.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    As for your first paragraph. It is neither fair not courtous for the other users of this forum.

    I do remember that you are the one who drove Ben away. {{}@)_OI()E(_)*

    My post pertains to my experience and mine alone and I do not need your characterizations which are unwarranted, rude and untrue.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    I've never yet bought a camera from just reading specifications or "operational details" and button layouts, and I seriously doubt you have either in many a year
    Sure they are complicated, Chuck but I do look at the details. Believe you me, I checked everything out before I bought the MM. Same goes for the A7r and the 7. My money and time is precious to me and I do not waste any one else's.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    you said (Which Annna objected to)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Complaints about prices, new models and such come from people with too many cameras with very little use of them.
    Then you said
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    My post pertains to my experience and mine alone and I do not need your characterizations which are unwarranted, rude and untrue.
    I don't think it was unwarranted, rude or untrue. generally better not to cast aspersions I'd say. Tom was generous enough not to be offended at your remark.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I would ask the same (not to cast aspersions).

    It is a matter of punctuations perhaps. Take it at its entirety and you need not even doubt how many cameras I own and how it is realistically possible to be using most of them in a given year.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    ah Vivek. the difference between the collector and the simple GAS victim like me! I'm afraid the former is s more honourable occupation.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Not at all that way, Jono. My G1 still works, My "full spectrum G1 still works and though I had an offer, just loaned it to Rafael here (he got his converted professionally after trying mine) at my cost. I have had friendly such exchanges with Bart. These are few shiny examples that makes this forum wonderful.

    I only had functional examples in mind.

    I do not "collect" cameras or gear. A few rare lenses that I had bought for intended use stayed put without any. Sold them and bought the MM that does get used (again with great help from a friend who is also in this forum).

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I'm not sure what people are smoking on Sony forums around the internet. The only "innovation" I see from Sony in this case is putting a 35mm sensor in a small body, and:

    - To get a complete A7 camera, I would need three bodies, one with premium video and good high ISO, one with IBIS and usable AF and one with high resolution. Still my D810 is probably a more capable camera than the sum of the three, but it lacks IBIS and the option of 4K.
    - Two of those bodies have the nosiest shutter since... can't remember.
    - IBIS is not a Sony innovation but something that came with Minolta. Olympus has had 5-axis IBIS for more than a year.
    - None of those bodies have in-body 4K, one can record 4K with an external recorder. Panasonic offer in-body 4K with three bodies, one of which is nearly pocketable.
    - The A7s has great high ISO, but Nikon offers at least four bodies that are less than one stop behind when reduced to 12MP (D750, D810, D4s and Df).
    - Ergonomics are partly a matter of taste, but it's difficult to understand why Sony only figured things out after releasing three versions of the A7, particularly when they have been producing DSLR cameras with rather good ergonomics for around 10 years.

    While the A7 bodies are nice, mostly because of their size and the ability to mount any old lens on a full frame sensor, Sony is definitely not in a class of its own when it comes to innovation. That is something they would have to share with Samsung, Olympus and Panasonic. Sony would undoubtedly win the prize for the most inconsistent model policy though. The camera manufacturer that impresses me most at the moment is Nikon. While they present technology in a very traditional package, their recent cameras are packed with great ideas and stand out as extremely usable tools for any kind of photography. Their DSLR cameras have come a long way since the D700, and sometimes I wonder if there has been more useful innovation going on the last five years in those camera bodies than in the mirrorless world.

    Sorry for the rant. I would still like an A7something, but complete cameras they are not.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'm not sure what people are smoking on Sony forums around the internet.


    Nikon innovative?


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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Nikon innovative?

    Innovative where it counts: Making good cameras better by sensible use of new technology. Many years ago, somebody on this forum said that a good camera is one that isn't annoying, or something along those lines. That's Nikon.

    An A7 II with the Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 is only 150 grams lighter than a D750 with a Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 and only slightly smaller. As soon as we talk large aperture zoom lenses, there's hardly any difference at all. Isn't that food for thought?
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Last I heard they are using Sony sensors. Oh wait so is Hassy, Pentax, phase one and others. The A7 series is very innovative compared to many others. Perfect no but you can't fault them for trying and also succeeding at the same time. Nikon makes great photographers ergonomics, maybe the best in the industry but they fall short too. There TS lenses are nothing compared to Canons. Folks they are all give and take. I take no sides on any of it. I just get what I think works the best. Okay Fedx just dropped off the 16-35 rental lens.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Nikon innovative?
    There is a difference between adding features for the sake of spec sheets and adding things that photographers can actually use.

    The only thing I see thats truly useful on the A7II is the IBIS, it would allow me to take photos at a lower ISO than I can currently.

    The rest is firmware if you ask me. Unless there has been a major bump in the BionX processor that Sony is not marketing for some reason.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I think people are forgetting who is actually making the sensors here. Do you think for one second Hassy, Pentax , Nikon and Phase One are complete idiots. Let's get real here Sony is making this stuff. A lot of innovation and trust is going into this or those guys would not be buying there technology .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay Fedx just dropped off the 16-35 rental lens.
    Sweet! Let us know how it goes. I'm very interested in this lens.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think people are forgetting who is actually making the sensors here. Do you think for one second Hassy, Pentax , Nikon and Phase One are complete idiots. Let's get real here Sony is making this stuff. A lot of innovation and trust is going into this or those guys would not be buying there technology .
    Hi Guy, I think nobody doubts that Sony is building some good sensors.

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    Re: The Sony A7II

    I love competition! The more the better for us users!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think people are forgetting who is actually making the sensors here. Do you think for one second Hassy, Pentax , Nikon and Phase One are complete idiots. Let's get real here Sony is making this stuff. A lot of innovation and trust is going into this or those guys would not be buying there technology .
    For some reason, those sensors are more noisy in Sony cameras than in Nikon bodies. That goes for A7 vs. D750 as well as A7r vs. D810. Maybe Sony should use more resources on better noise processing algorithms than on new bodies? It doesn't look as cool in marketing campaigns, but it sure improves the usability of cameras.
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    This is an interesting read. I'm still using my A7, briefly had a preorder in for the A7ii but pulled it to wait and see. When I go back over the past few years and which cameras I:

    a) enjoyed shooting

    and

    b) got the best shots from (those two overlapped but not always)

    I got an interesting list that unfortunately shows that a single camera just won't really cut it. My short list (I pale in comparison to many around here - both in talent and number of cameras owned ):

    Pentax K20d - the camera had issues (AF was miserable), but the image stabilization was great for how/what I shoot, and dammit, the Pentax limited primes are my favorite glass of all time (caveat - never owned M glass). I still miss the 77/1.8.

    Leica D-Lux4 - yeah, small sensor but I could carry it anywhere, could focus down to about 1cm macro, and I ended with many large prints that are still on my wall.

    Sony A7 w/55-1.8 - I got a number of shots published from that combo. I shot some of the same sessions with GH3 and a few of those were used but the Sony shots had more going on due to the extra DR.

    I also liked aspects of my EM5 (mostly the stabilization) and even an early Pen. I've still got a 6D sitting in the drawer that my wife uses occasionally to shoot some of her sculpture but now that Sony has a 16-35 that could go away.

    All that said, my wants and needs have evolved somewhat, as has the technology. Having owned and/or shot the A7r, RX1r, XT-1, EM1 and others, my "perfect" camera doesn't exist. Or maybe it will. If I mix my previous favorites I get:

    - sensor stabilization as I shoot all handheld and often in crappy light
    - crazy high iso as I shoot all handheld and often in crappy light (I sense a pattern)
    - smallish as the smaller it is the more likely it is to go with me
    - small/fast primes that are sublime for certain occasions
    - a small/fast zoom for general purpose
    - SILENT SHUTTER (I'm sometimes shooting while filming is going on - A7 fails here)

    That's more than one camera. Right now RX100ii and A7 are covering the basses, but what I really want is an A7sii with sensor stabilization and 18-24MP. Then for a second camera, the new DLux might be the ticket, though perhaps a hair big.

    Then again, my Buddhist readings tell me that I need to give up searching for perfect things
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    Re: The Sony A7II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    ...
    Sony is the only innovative company at the moment and it comes with its own characteristics. ...
    Hmm. I'm not so interested in innovation as I am in getting a good camera that does the job. :-)

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