The Sony A7II

[dandrewk]

News update we have movement now


Starting form today the worldwide first A7II are in Stock at Amazon Japan. As next US readers will get their cameras from December 9. European readers will get them from December 17 and Canadian readers from December 18. Full rpeorder list and shipment info below. P.S.: There is also a new real world sample gallery posted on Dpreview.

This is good, as it means we will soon get many more hands-on reviews. Plenty of time to cancel the orders if the reviews are bad. I seriously doubt that will be the case, though.

Sony must be pretty confident in the camera with a staged international release. Our European and Canadian friends will be upset with the weeks delay, but by the time the A711 reaches their dealer shelves, the jury will have returned the verdict.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Agree I have been first way to many times. A week is good get some reports.

 

[dandrewk]

From looking at the published A7II user manual (http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/content/cnt-man/ILCE-7M2/list), I was pleased to see they improved the bracketing options. The A7 limited EV brackets of one F-stop or more to three shots. The new camera goes to five shots.

I tend to do a lot of HDR bracketing - not to make the classic HDR shot, but to have a natural, full range image in high contrast situations. Often having only three shots was too limiting, and I loved that my old Nikon D600 had the five stop option. I'm really happy to be getting that back with the A7II.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Everything is a improvement and I like all the new features and functions. I was almost there with the A7 but if I get the 30 percent increase in AF tracking thats what I am really after. This is going to be the PR workhorse for me. Looking forward to the release button placement I don't like them on top.

 

[nostatic]

No mention of silent shutter - just EFC. So evidently it didn't inherit the option from the A7S.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Yes, thankfully, the A7 II is much smaller and less intimidating than a comparable DSLR. Weighing 150 grams less will of course also save your back. Luckily, Sony also got rid of that annoying top LCD that tended to make cameras huge and unwieldy

Yes, I know, I know, the camera to the right has a crop sensor, but when it comes to high ISO, it's only one stop worse than the Sony, the same way as the camera to the left is almost one stop better.

 

[JMaher]

Jorgen,

You know they may all be relatively the same size, two are full frame, two are image stabilized, one has an electronic viewfinder that allows you to see the impact of exposure and white balance adjustments. However only one has all three attributes. Size is only one factor.

As they say "horses for courses", each camera fills a different niche and there is a buyer for each of them

For action photography my choice would be different but for what I shoot I am willing to roll the dice on a A7II.

Jim

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen,

You know they may all be relatively the same size, two are full frame, two are image stabilized, one has an electronic viewfinder that allows you to see the impact of exposure and white balance adjustments. However only one has all three attributes. Size is only one factor.

As they say "horses for courses", each camera fills a different niche and there is a buyer for each of them

For action photography my choice would be different but for what I shoot I am willing to roll the dice on a A7II.

Jim

You are very right, Jim, and that is exactly my point. What many tend to forget when blinded by the novelty factor is that each camera has limitations and what those limitations are. The advantages of new technology also seem to be blown somewhat out of proportion now and then.

After shooting with mirrorless cameras professionally and on my spare time for 5 years, I've been running into the limitations of that technology more times than I can count. There are photos of mine that wouldn't have happened without that technology, but there are probably just as many that didn't happen because of it.

In the end, I had to find a camera that would serve me in more or less any situation, and since I do photography in a very wide assortment of situations, there weren't many cameras that made the cut. The crunch is: There are many advantages with mirrorless cameras, but I've lived happily without those advantages for as long as I've been doing photography, and in some areas, DSLRs have been catching up, like video performance and size. On the other side, there are disadvantages with this new technology that it's very hard to live with for certain kinds of photography.

During film days, if somebody had an F5, that was the camera he used and he used it for anything. If he had another camera, it was usually another F5 or an F100. With the latest models from at least one DSLR maker, we are back there again; one body is really all that is needed. Mirrorless isn't there yet. The model that seems to be closest to that is the NX1 from Samsung, but like Sony, they lack lenses and like Sony, I'm not sure if they know the photography business to the core. Sony is probably better at that than Samsung, but they have made some rather counterproductive decisions during the last ten years.

In spite of all technological wizardry that has gone into the 7 cameras, Sony looked more like photography company when they launched the A900. I wonder how many of the Minolta people are still with them...

 

[jfirneno]

Yes, thankfully, the A7 II is much smaller and less intimidating than a comparable DSLR. Weighing 150 grams less will of course also save your back. Luckily, Sony also got rid of that annoying top LCD that tended to make cameras huge and unwieldy

Yes, I know, I know, the camera to the right has a crop sensor, but when it comes to high ISO, it's only one stop worse than the Sony, the same way as the camera to the left is almost one stop better.

Jorgen:
You prefer Nikon and Panasonic cameras. Are you hoping for someone to convince you that Sony has a camera that you want? Or are you just trolling us? Because it's confusing to know whether you want an answer or just annoyance. Here's the deal. People are buying Sony because of one (or more) of these reasons:
1) They are invested in Sony and Minolta A-mount lenses and want a camera system to use them on.
2) They are interested in a mirrorless system and want a full frame option.
3) They like the idea of using orphan lenses on a full frame sensor

We know mirrorless systems lack highest AF capability and many of the highly evolved program features found on the high end Canikon. We know that Sony hyperactively produces camera models that only improve a few features at a time. What you already know is that every camera system has trade-offs. What brings you to this thread?

Regards,
John

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen:
You prefer Nikon and Panasonic cameras. Are you hoping for someone to convince you that Sony has a camera that you want? Or are you just trolling us? Because it's confusing to know whether you want an answer or just annoyance. Here's the deal. People are buying Sony because of one (or more) of these reasons:
1) They are invested in Sony and Minolta A-mount lenses and want a camera system to use them on.
2) They are interested in a mirrorless system and want a full frame option.
3) They like the idea of using orphan lenses on a full frame sensor

We know mirrorless systems lack highest AF capability and many of the highly evolved program features found on the high end Canikon. We know that Sony hyperactively produces camera models that only improve a few features at a time. What you already know is that every camera system has trade-offs. What brings you to this thread?

Regards,
John

Maybe it's just because I enjoy a discussion

No, it's because I believe Sony could have made a much better camera, and without critical views from photographers, they never will. If Sony had shown the ability to stay with a concept and to refine an idea instead of replacing it with another one, I would probably have been a Sony user by now. But they haven't and they didn't. I find that a bit worrying from one of the largest and most resourceful suppliers to the photography business.

Ultimately, there's a danger that we will end up mostly with suppliers like Sony because of their ability to pump out new ideas and products more or less every week and their even greater ability to bring their boxes into people's homes.

 

[iiiNelson]

Jorgen:
You prefer Nikon and Panasonic cameras. Are you hoping for someone to convince you that Sony has a camera that you want? Or are you just trolling us? Because it's confusing to know whether you want an answer or just annoyance. Here's the deal. People are buying Sony because of one (or more) of these reasons:
1) They are invested in Sony and Minolta A-mount lenses and want a camera system to use them on.
2) They are interested in a mirrorless system and want a full frame option.
3) They like the idea of using orphan lenses on a full frame sensor

We know mirrorless systems lack highest AF capability and many of the highly evolved program features found on the high end Canikon. We know that Sony hyperactively produces camera models that only improve a few features at a time. What you already know is that every camera system has trade-offs. What brings you to this thread?

Regards,
John

Well put.

Someone made a comment last year when the A7 and A7R was announced that Sony may be the new Leica. I kind of dismissed it at first but it may be proving to be true after all . Maybe not in the manner of having the absolute best designed lenses in 35mm or MF but in the way that I can't remember another brand besides Leica that has been so polarizing to the established norms/brands. Nothing besides a new Sony pimped out as a Hasselblad brings out the detractors (who constantly stop by to tell you how they have no use for the new model of Sony) besides a Leica model (that brings out the people who say it's overpriced and there's no reason to buy a $8K 50mm lens when their Canon 50 is slightly faster for 5% of the cost or how all Leica users are collectors.)

I believe Sony to be turning a new leaf and a new corner in being serious about photography for a change. They are bringing out (and announcing) more lenses than bodies. They have begun pro support (even if it isn't the be all solution for everyone yet.) They are listening to feedback and making improvements. They are pushing the boundaries of what people said was or wasn't possible in 35mm and MF. They certainly have their quirks and they certainly aren't for everyone. I do see a much more aggressive strategy though. I'm not saying they're perfect - there's much to be desired from them but that's not to say I can't piece together a kit that fits/exceeds my own needs either because I have.

I have a buddy that wanted to buy an M9 after he saw some of my pictures - I directed him to a Nikon D600. I would never buy any current Nikon except the Df personally for myself but I knew the M9 wasn't the camera for him. Just too limiting and the learning curve is high for the average amateur. I know people that want to switch to Sony cameras after they've seen some of my prints with them... I'd tell them to get a Canon or Nikon except it doesn't matter what they get. They'll stick to the kit lens or a super zoom anyway.

 

[Vivek]

Ultimately, there's a danger that we will end up mostly with suppliers like Sony because of their ability to pump out new ideas and products more or less every week and their even greater ability to bring their boxes into people's homes.

So, this is some sort of a crusade?

Look at this site: this is the only forum that is vibrant and that is based solely on the number of pics posted and not the troll talks. m43 (once very active), CaNikon, and even Leica are in doldrums. Isn't it better to show your passion in a more positive way by what these wonderful cameras do in your (anyone, not you in particular) capable hands?

 

[iiiNelson]

Maybe it's just because I enjoy a discussion

No, it's because I believe Sony could have made a much better camera, and without critical views from photographers, they never will. If Sony had shown the ability to stay with a concept and to refine an idea instead of replacing it with another one, I would probably have been a Sony user by now. But they haven't and they didn't. I find that a bit worrying from one of the largest and most resourceful suppliers to the photography business.

Ultimately, there's a danger that we will end up mostly with suppliers like Sony because of their ability to pump out new ideas and products more or less every week and their even greater ability to bring their boxes into people's homes.

I think the reality is many are and have been very critical of Sony - but more people seem to be adamant in not letting them forget all the wrong missteps they've taken in the past yet have corrected on some level in the present.

A willingness to change and constructively provide specific feedback is a great thing. Attacking or insinuating that those who like most of what they are doing with their new bodies are out of their minds because the body doesn't fit YOU is what some have a problem with. I think the reality is that Sony has made enough bodies in the past to realize it's possible that one of them can fit you just as there's a market for both cost/size no option fast lenses, there is a market for medium/slow compact travel lenses, there's a market for the rumored pro body, and there's a market for the rumored basic FF model.

My belief is that SOME people that are not invested into the Sony systems are so busy only promoting their own personal needs/desires that they spend lots of time bashing the covered needs of those already invested in the system. If I were Sony I'd take all of these suggestions with a grain of salt compared to those the suggestions of those invested in the system.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

So, this is some sort of a crusade?

Look at this site: this is the only forum that is vibrant and that is based solely on the number of pics posted and not the troll talks. m43 (once very active), CaNikon, and even Leica are in doldrums. Isn't it better to show your passion in a more positive way by what these wonderful cameras do in your (anyone, not you in particular) capable hands?

I'll go out and take some photos

 

[dandrewk]

It's pretty shocking how much some people expect from a system that's been on the market -for one year-! To me, the output from Sony in that year has been nothing short of astonishing.

Their latest iteration, the A7II, shows that Sony INDEED quickly listens to its users. I doubt that many would say the same about Canon or Nikon.

 

[Annna T]

I'm not sure what people are smoking on Sony forums around the internet. The only "innovation" I see from Sony in this case is putting a 35mm sensor in a small body, and:
(...)
The camera manufacturer that impresses me most at the moment is Nikon. While they present technology in a very traditional package, their recent cameras are packed with great ideas and stand out as extremely usable tools for any kind of photography. Their DSLR cameras have come a long way since the D700, and sometimes I wonder if there has been more useful innovation going on the last five years in those camera bodies than in the mirrorless world.

Sorry for the rant. I would still like an A7something, but complete cameras they are not.

Well what the Nikon DSLRs are lacking IMO is an EVF. As for the Sony A7 innovations : sometimes the whole yields you more than the sum of the different parts (different innovations in this case). The full frame sensor of the D800 in a mirrorless body that is as small as an MFT body, that was quite audacious. Still, the lenses are big. When you consider the whole system, for size and weight the advantage remains to MFT.

 

[Vivek]

I'll go out and take some photos

:thumbs:

Could be a fellow Sony user?

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
Sony A7r, Olympus pen F 60/1.5, Amsterdam

 

[iiiNelson]

Well back on topic... Here's Steve Huff's initial impressions. It's his usual overly enthusiastic (or pessimistic in some cases) but the shots DO look like like Sony did do some tweaking to improve the IQ judging from the JPEG's. The look is just a bit smoother and much closer to the look of the A7R to my eyes even at the smaller JPEG sizes.

I'm still waiting to see how that rumored A9 is going to come out but it adds some excitement to that upcoming release for me.

 

[jfirneno]

Ultimately, there's a danger that we will end up mostly with suppliers like Sony because of their ability to pump out new ideas and products more or less every week and their even greater ability to bring their boxes into people's homes.

I think the danger is a lot worse than that. Now that the digital camera bubble has burst there is a real danger that the remaining market may not be enough to keep Canon and Nikon afloat. In ten years professional photographers may be using Samsung and Apple cameras. And those cameras may not be exactly what photographers would like. They'll be what Samsung and Apple are willing to produce. I think we'll be lucky if Sony or Panasonic make it through the next few years. At least they've tried to become camera companies. God help us if we're left with the Google camera or the Amazon cam.

 

[Shac]

So, this is some sort of a crusade?

Look at this site: this is the only forum that is vibrant and that is based solely on the number of pics posted and not the troll talks. m43 (once very active), CaNikon, and even Leica are in doldrums. Isn't it better to show your passion in a more positive way by what these wonderful cameras do in your (anyone, not you in particular) capable hands?

Totally agree and also the A7/R site over at FM has some stunning images in it's 500+ pages