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Thread: A9: coming soon to you ...

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Dang...

    I guess this means I might as well sell everything since I can't keep up!



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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If photographers are willing to pay more for an old A900 than for an almost new A7, does that mean that the A900 is a better camera or that photographers are stupid?
    I can't answer if they are stupud, I am, but I suspect they want the flappy mirror/OVF or the AF speed of the A900.

    Me, I'm happy with mirrorless and I never understood why some mirrorless were so expensive. Surely that flappy mirror thing and all its sundry parts must be expensive to make, so it makes sense (to me) that the A7 is worth less (not worthless). But then I rejoice in that, as my funds are limited.

    I see the A9 as part of the A series family. Now if the A9 has NO IBS, then there will be all sorts of too-ing and fro-ing with those who end up with both.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If photographers are willing to pay more for an old A900 than for an almost new A7, does that mean that the A900 is a better camera or that photographers are stupid?
    Neither! Totally confused!

    You considered buying the A7 (a "walkman" according to you in another post) while declaring the A900 as the best ever from Sony all the while buying the dino cam D810.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    K64 lasted only 35 years I believe. There is no Kodachrome film that made it from the beginning to the end, so this isn't really a fair comparison.

    I loved K64... really liked K200 for it's grain, and K25 was very nice indeed. K64 was fantastic in 12 format, and I never got a chance to shoot any 4x5 with it, but the samples I've seen are fantastic.

    I'm looking forward to the new camera to finish out my kit for a good long time I hope.


    ---Michael
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    K64 lasted only 35 years I believe. There is no Kodachrome film that made it from the beginning to the end, so this isn't really a fair comparison.

    I loved K64... really liked K200 for it's grain, and K25 was very nice indeed. K64 was fantastic in 12 format, and I never got a chance to shoot any 4x5 with it, but the samples I've seen are fantastic.

    I'm looking forward to the new camera to finish out my kit for a good long time I hope.


    ---Michael
    Kodachrome was introduced in 1935 and discontinued in 2009. Processing stopped in 2010. Yes, there was extensive product development, but there has been full compatibility all the way. A 2009 roll could still be used in a 1935 camera. The 135 film was introduced by Kodak in 1934 and is still in production.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Neither! Totally confused!

    You considered buying the A7 (a "walkman" according to you in another post) while declaring the A900 as the best ever from Sony all the while buying the dino cam D810.
    Yes, my Nikkor lenses won't fit on the A900, and even DSLR cameras have developed. As good as the A900 is, the D810 is a vastly better camera. Ironically, I find the last years' development within the field of DSLR cameras at least as innovative as that for the mirrorless competitors, and often following a more useful path.

    The Walkman would be for my OM Zuiko lenses. Full frame mirrorless cameras are great for ancient lenses.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Kodachrome was introduced in 1935 and discontinued in 2009. Processing stopped in 2010. Yes, there was extensive product development, but there has been full compatibility all the way. A 2009 roll could still be used in a 1935 camera. The 135 film was introduced by Kodak in 1934 and is still in production.
    The good old days.. rank amateur stuff will be golden nowadays in some quarters..



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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The Walkman would be for my OM Zuiko lenses. Full frame mirrorless cameras are great for ancient lenses.
    Leitax offer mounts and even service to remount your OM lenses for Nikon F. I am sure they will be much better on your D810 than the ancient Nikkors you have.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Kodachrome was introduced in 1935 and discontinued in 2009. Processing stopped in 2010. Yes, there was extensive product development, but there has been full compatibility all the way. A 2009 roll could still be used in a 1935 camera. The 135 film was introduced by Kodak in 1934 and is still in production.
    Not correct. Kodachrome went through several changes in process along the way, from the original, to K-11, K-12, and finally K-14 at the end. The films were not cross compatible in the developing process.

    The fact that you can put them all in a 35mm camera is comparable to the fact that I can still purchase memory cards for digital cameras that I purchased in the early 2000's.

    I just looked it up, because I wasn't sure how long CF cards have been made... SanDisk introduced the first CF cards in 1994, so we are at 20 years and counting.

    Do you think that the image quality of these new cameras has not improved in the past few product cycles? If not, then don't purchase a new one. If you feel they have improved, then you can buy a new one to take advantage of the improvements if you'd like.

    This improvement is happening so much faster with digital than it did with film (in a long term perspective). I fail to see why anyone would bemoan the improvements, as there is always the opt-out option.

    Go back to film for a while. It'll make you appreciate what these newfangled digital cameras are capable of delivering. These cameras are not really any different than computers anymore, and they are always going to have rapid product cycles compared to the mechanical cameras of the past.

    Doesn't mean I don't like the old cameras, but I believe the modern ones make a better photographic tool for many purposes.


    ---Michael
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If photographers are willing to pay more for an old A900 than for an almost new A7, does that mean that the A900 is a better camera or that photographers are stupid?
    "Old friends and old wine are best." I bet every single component of a850/900 is of a higher quality than one in a7 or lack thereof.
    If anyone knows of a FF DSLR with a brighter and crispier OVF with a standard VF screen than one in a900 please let me know.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    Not correct. Kodachrome went through several changes in process along the way, from the original, to K-11, K-12, and finally K-14 at the end. The films were not cross compatible in the developing process.

    The fact that you can put them all in a 35mm camera is comparable to the fact that I can still purchase memory cards for digital cameras that I purchased in the early 2000's.

    I just looked it up, because I wasn't sure how long CF cards have been made... SanDisk introduced the first CF cards in 1994, so we are at 20 years and counting.

    Do you think that the image quality of these new cameras has not improved in the past few product cycles? If not, then don't purchase a new one. If you feel they have improved, then you can buy a new one to take advantage of the improvements if you'd like.

    This improvement is happening so much faster with digital than it did with film (in a long term perspective). I fail to see why anyone would bemoan the improvements, as there is always the opt-out option.

    Go back to film for a while. It'll make you appreciate what these newfangled digital cameras are capable of delivering. These cameras are not really any different than computers anymore, and they are always going to have rapid product cycles compared to the mechanical cameras of the past.

    Doesn't mean I don't like the old cameras, but I believe the modern ones make a better photographic tool for many purposes.


    ---Michael

    I believe that in the film days, depending on what film one purchased, would vastly affect the image quality. The equivalent of film for digital would require exchanging the digital sensor and/or image processor. In the case of Sony, it would require a replacement more up to date camera body. To my knowledge, CF and SD cards have no impact on image quality, so really one cannot compare film to a memory card.

    I do agree with your opt out option. With every new model released, there are options to whether one needs the new improvements or not. Sony is not forcing any of it's camera users to upgrade with each release.

    For me, I am still very content with my obsolete Sony NEX 5r with its quirky menus and smaller 16MP APS-C sensor. It still has benefits which include a much smaller footprint and weight, plus it works well with just about any legacy glass with minimal magenta casting.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Jorgen,

    I agree with you completely. I was going to sell my A900 and I have decided to keep it as it is the last of the breed.
    It is very well built and I can still obtain superb lenses for it.
    I recently took it out of my storage case and I was very impressed by the image quality.

    I made 12x18 inch prints and I was not able to tell the difference between these and a recent set I had made from a D800E.

    The color rendition was very pleasing.

    I always enjoy your most informative posts!

    Thank you,
    Mike



    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Sony could easily have produced the A7 II a year ago. There's nothing in the new model that wasn't known then, some things for decades (like a decent grip and a sensible position for the shutter release). Sony brings imperfect products to the market because they aim to sell you another, better one next year. It's part of their policy to keep you dissatisfied, to want something more as soon as the smell of new camera has evaporated.

    Yes, these are new times, and the sixties won't come back. But I see an industry that is catering for consumerism as much as (or more than) they cater for photography. There's no way Sony will support all their cameras and all their standards forever. It's simply not economical. For how long will they be able to deliver parts for each model? 10 years? 5 years? 2 years?

    The best Sony camera so far was the A900. I'm afraid it will remain there at the top of the heap for a long time, unless they have a big surprise in store for us with the A9 or whatever it will be called.

    Sorry for being harsh, but as good as some of these cameras are, I see a negative development here. I've really left this train, but the stations seem to be on fire as far as I can see down the track...

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    I've been out taking pictures full time for the last two weeks with my legacy A7r / A7II & A7s cameras. Now I'm home I see that apparently the sky is falling ...

    On a more serious note, it would be nice if Sony adopted Fuji's approach of continuous firmware updates to fix the few foibles we all know about the Sony cameras.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I've been out taking pictures full time for the last two weeks with my legacy A7r / A7II & A7s cameras. Now I'm home I see that apparently the sky is falling ...

    On a more serious note, it would be nice if Sony adopted Fuji's approach of continuous firmware updates to fix the few foibles we all know about the Sony cameras.
    I so agree about the firmware issue as in a way Sony are forcing you to upgrade as sometimes it seems to be the only way to get what are often just software improvements. Fuji have been so good in this department and have really shown how much areas such as focus speeds, responsiveness etc can often be improved in older/previous models. Unfortunately though I don't think this is a business model they are about to adopt

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viramati View Post
    I so agree about the firmware issue as in a way Sony are forcing you to upgrade as sometimes it seems to be the only way to get what are often just software improvements. Fuji have been so good in this department and have really shown how much areas such as focus speeds, responsiveness etc can often be improved in older/previous models. Unfortunately though I don't think this is a business model they are about to adopt
    Fuji was the system I just switched from when I moved to Sony. The only problem I had with Fuji and their excellent firmware upgrade philosophy is that for some reason it didn't keep me from upgrading camera bodies as they were released. .

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post

    On a more serious note, it would be nice if Sony adopted Fuji's approach of continuous firmware updates to fix the few foibles we all know about the Sony cameras.
    Why would they? If they don't, we all scramble lockstep and line up to buy the new one. And with Guy at the head of the line!
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Well yes, I did think that myself when I wrote that earlier. Big functionality changes warrant camera body upgrades but bug fixes really should be part of the program.

    Sony & Nikon (and presumably Canon too) always seem to require a model change for fixes, and those fixes are typically for problems known to users of the cameras but denied by the manufacturers.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Sony should sell these cameras on a subscription basis. "Deposit $20,000 with Sony and receive a brand new Sony A-Something each year for ten years and the 11th camera for free. New user interface guaranteed with each new model!"
    Wait a minute...This sounds suspiciously like the Trojan horse that is the Adobe Cloud. Wash your mouth out with soap and water, young man!
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Here's an on topic post from me for a change:
    I talked with a friend of mine who is deeply involved in the photography business and well connected to Sony. When I asked him how he thought the A9 would influence the sales of A7 cameras, he spontaneously answered "The A9 will be A-mount". If he was thinking about something else, or didn't hear me properly, I don't know, and this is not even a rumour at this stage, but it would make kind of sense in some ways for a "pro camera", since the A-mount is probably better suited for large aperture, full frame lenses and since a selection of good lenses already exists for the A-mount.

    Take it for what it is; a comment that fell during a long conversation about cameras in general.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    I will take a break from this forum for a few months. These troll posts are not very pleasant.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    That's what I did several months ago. Not for the trolls (are there any, and are they frequent?) but because forums divided into different brand sections seem to be less rewarding than forums discussing gear and images in general.

    Normally I don't read about speculations and rumour threads but as the traffic here is a little slow, and I'm having a slow day myself, I clicked the threads marked with the New Post-symbols. The first post was about a quite dated rumour. Meaningless. Then I went to the last message, your post.

    All I can say is that I appreciate the thread about the Cron 75 AA and if you leave I hope it won't be for long.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    a900 user here (I can hear and feel the board ones dropping off of their seats and hear the door shutting as they leave the room). Many of you gear guys don't seem to realize that it doesn't matter which camera you use if your photos are crap. Crap in, crap out.

    My photos are hardly great but you know, the a900 works for me and what I like to do. An a9 won't make a better photographer if I don't have the drive to do better. An a7 in all of its various incarnations isn't going to make me a more exciting person, or a better husband and father. My Leica M6 will out live me and seems to do better than I do after it is dropped to the ground.

    It just seems to a lot of us that Sony is cranking out a new computer, er camera, every few months, and it really makes absolutely no difference in the quality of the photos and photographers out there.

    What is a Cron 75AA?
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    (...)
    My photos are hardly great but you know, the a900 works for me and what I like to do. An a9 won't make a better photographer if I don't have the drive to do better.
    (...)
    What is a Cron 75AA?
    Provocative. But true. Or partly true at least. Cameras with electronic viewfinders made it possible for me to continue taking images at all. You seem to need a top quality FF camera for what you do. I see no reason to post sarcastic messages about people dreaming on - for whatever reason they do so.

    Cron 75AA is a home-made short for a lens which is discussed in one of the recent threads in this forum. The manufacturer cals it "Leica APO-Summicron-M 75mm f/2 ASPH" but that is a bit long for chatting.

    And all this from one usually not even reading rumour threads.... lol. Cheers!
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Jonas, the sarcasm was directed towards the Cron 75AA. Having used a Lecia (bought for me by my late father a year before he died) for years before I bought a Sony, I am very familiar with the Leica line of lenses.

    I am happy for you that you can continue to take pics because of the EVF. That is more important. than anything at the moment.

    Yes, people can dream. I dream of: a lighter and faster FF OVF A Mount Sony; a 70-200/1.8 ZA to replace my 70-200/2.8G (earlier incarnation); a reasonably priced 300/2.8G or longer /2.8G lens; and lots of people throwing money at me to take pictures of their kids playing water polo, swimming, playing football, etc. without having to do the hard work of marketing myself. A guy can dream!

    Before I picked up a camera, about 20 years ago, I thought that taking a good photo, not a great photo, but a good photo, was relatively easy. I quickly learned it isn't. I ditched my first Nikon for the Leica that my late father bought and shot everything from my adoption law practice (legal proceedings, adoptive parents seeing their babies for the first time) to sports. I supplemented the M6 with a Mamiya 7II and 65/4 lens. Only when my wife wanted to have a fashion blog and needed her pictures yesterday did I venture into digital.

    Has digital made me a better photographer? Yes, but only in the realm of sports photography because I can get instant feedback to see if I am adequately capturing whatever it is I am trying to capture. But, I still have to pace the pool deck, walk the sidelines of the football games, and have the stamina to slog through parents standing next to me who think it is ok to coach their kids while the kid is playing 10 feet away.

    Gotta run. But before I do, a cold shot glass of Acquavit in your direction to toast our good fortune at being able to take pictures.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    I'm really looking forward to the A10
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    "Old friends and old wine are best." I bet every single component of a850/900 is of a higher quality than one in a7 or lack thereof.
    If anyone knows of a FF DSLR with a brighter and crispier OVF with a standard VF screen than one in a900 please let me know.
    Having owned the A900 myself I only can attest this is completely right!!!!

    Having said that the A900 did lack a lot of necessary features (at least for me) as for example a faster and more capable AF. The D810 definitely tops the A900 from this point of view and even tops it WRT resolution and IQ. Main issue with all that higher res are the lenses which are for sure not designed or capable of 36+ MP!!!

    The sweetspot currently still seems to be 24MP for FF sensors.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dwood View Post
    I'm really looking forward to the A10
    here it comes, take care !



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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    And there I was thinking my M8s and my ME were mirrorless cameras.
    And my M3 before that and my MP and.....

    Got to talk to someone about that misrepresentation and my stupidity in believing such.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    Sony has long been the leader in mirrorless cameras, and they stand alone in FF mirrorless cameras. .

    ......
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dwood View Post
    I'm really looking forward to the A10
    You can have a look at the A10 now. It's a road going north out of London . Bit surprised you are looking forward to it though. I prefer the M11..
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    I believe it was the CEO of Leica who said at Photokina: "These manufacturers are going too fast, pushing the customers too hard, with too many new products in too short a time. It will cause them problems." Or something to that effect.

    The A9 will likely be another grand technological achievement. YAWN! I don't need another grand technological achievement. I need the time to understand and use the grand technological achievements littering my home already so that I can get what I paid for back in value.

    The A7 body's capabilities opened up new areas of endeavor that I've only dipped my toe into so far. By the time I learn to really utilize it and achieve the products of those endeavors to my satisfaction, I'm sure Sony will be on the A9 Mark XX. I'll enjoy hearing your war stories of new equipment discovery through the next new twenty generations of cameras by the end of the year, but I'm going to pass and just work on my photography for the most part this year. There's one new camera I feel I ought to have, a leftover from last year's list of new tools that might make a difference, but for the rest I'm pretty happy with what's in the closet and will be more likely to sell the excess rather than add to it.

    G

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    here it comes, take care !



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    Nah... discontinued already, and will be replaced by some Swiss Army Knife kind of high tech plane that is supposed to do everything but can't really do anything properly. I believe it's called the F35. Must be a Nikon then

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I will take a break from this forum for a few months. These troll posts are not very pleasant.
    Define "troll". Is it someone who posts only to provoke, with little or no meaning or factual basis? Or is it someone who happens to disagree with you?

    You won't have any luck avoiding either cases in any photography forum.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    On 27 October 2014, Kazuto Yamaki, the CEO of Sigma, said in an interview with http://www.dslrmagazine.com/digital/...de-sigma.html:

    "It's a bit more difficult to make ART lenses for the Sony FE system because of the not so large diameter of the mount. We don't know why Sony did this. Likely because the E-mount was meant for APS-C first and only after that they did use it for FF too."

    For adapted lenses, this doesn't seem to pose much of a problem, since the extra distance between the flange and the sensor solves the challenge, but full frame, large aperture lenses designed for the E-mount, making them as compact as the the design of the system invites to, may be trickier. Also Leica M, with a mount throat that is 2 mm narrower than the Sony E, have had problems with this, even if the flange to sensor distance that is 9.8mm (more than 50%) longer.

    I've noticed also that although 40% lighter, the Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8 is almost as long as the Zeiss ZA 50mm f/1.4 (they are both around 71mm long, although the FE is considerably narrower, probably due to its smaller maximum aperture).

    With all this in mind, I see a "hybrid sized" camera coming up, since lens sizes will make the system larger than other mirrorless systems anyway. Something between the A99 and the A7 II? That probably wouldn't be bad idea, considering the success of the Panasonic GH3/4 and the Olympus E-M1, cameras that are as large as small DSLR bodies, in spite of having sensor that are 25% the size of the Sony A7 sensors.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Nah... discontinued already, and will be replaced by some Swiss Army Knife kind of high tech plane that is supposed to do everything but can't really do anything properly. I believe it's called the F35. Must be a Nikon then

    Th F35 flies too fast to be a proper CAS asset. Hence why the A10 program was actually extended for a bit longer for the immediate future.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    there are people out there producing images with my existing cameras that I'll never be able to match. I'll be on the sucker list for a new A9, but the probable outcome will be: 1.) same quality of images; 2.) smaller bank account.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    haha, I have resisted the temptation of upgrading and still enjoy using my Nex 5r with speedbooster adapter .
    And I am still on my 2 A900's! AF speed is of no importance to me as I use it almost exclusively for landscape photography.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    Define "troll". Is it someone who posts only to provoke, with little or no meaning or factual basis? Or is it someone who happens to disagree with you?

    You won't have any luck avoiding either cases in any photography forum.
    I believe he's referring to the constant repeating of anti-Sony comments/views in multiple threads by some after some expressing repeatedly of having no interests in Sony cameras. Some seemingly wants everyone else to not like their cameras either because they don't think they can fit their own needs.

    I think more and more these people are a bit obsessed with going out of their way to comment on every post about why they don't like Sony cameras or why they they won't buy their lenses. I swear many are simply trying to coach themselves out of GAS.

    It's all the same to me. I've come to accept them for what they really are - closet Sony fans. I think they spend more time lurking and commenting here than in the boards for cameras they own. That could be because Sony and MF are probably the two most active boards here usually with Micro 4/3 and Nikon probably about neck and neck.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Interesting discussion. While I agree that the product cycles are insanely short these days, I don't feel the need to own the latest model. I choose a particular camera because of what it does for me, and then I use it until something comes along that brings new features and capabilities that justify an upgrade.

    For my needs, a compact mirrorless body with IBIS, EFC (or a completely electronic shutter) and a 36MP FF sensor would be a godsend. After shooting extensively with the D800E and the A7R, I have come to the conclusion that an MP count above 36 isn't worth pursuing for me, as the demands on technique and gear required in the field (tripod) to make full use of the increased sensor resolution quickly become counter-productive. In my mind, the mirrorless revolution is all about excellent image quality in a small and light package and being able to use just about any legacy MF lens that catches my fancy.

    So Sony, you'll get my money when you release an A7RII with all the goodies of the A7II.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I believe he's referring to the constant repeating of anti-Sony comments/views in multiple threads by some after some expressing repeatedly of having no interests in Sony cameras. Some seemingly wants everyone else to not like their cameras either because they don't think they can fit their own needs.

    I think more and more these people are a bit obsessed with going out of their way to comment on every post about why they don't like Sony cameras or why they they won't buy their lenses. I swear many are simply trying to coach themselves out of GAS.

    It's all the same to me. I've come to accept them for what they really are - closet Sony fans. I think they spend more time lurking and commenting here than in the boards for cameras they own. That could be because Sony and MF are probably the two most active boards here usually with Micro 4/3 and Nikon probably about neck and neck.
    I think you'll find that those who are posting critical comments to Sony's model policy on this forum mostly are rather active on other forums as well. In my case, that includes the Nikon forum here and other places as well as m4/3 and film forums. Sony is without doubt one of the most interesting camera brands to follow right now, but their model policy should be controversial. They clearly aim to increase each photographer's consumption of camera bodies which is pure consumerism. They are extremely experienced in this field and make products that seem attractive to the consumer without really bringing anything new to the table other than presenting a small full frame body with flawed ergonomics. The emperor really has very little clothes on.

    Think about it: If somebody launched a DSLR with the ergonomics of the A7 and a tiny lens selection with a single lens sporting a larger aperture than 2.8, do you think they would survive for long?

    If this kind of critisism isn't welcome on the Sony forum, I can stop posting here right now. Maybe that will even bring Vivek back to the table. That would be nice, since his contributions are valuable.

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I believe he's referring to the constant repeating of anti-Sony comments/views in multiple threads by some after some expressing repeatedly of having no interests in Sony cameras. Some seemingly wants everyone else to not like their cameras either because they don't think they can fit their own needs.

    I think more and more these people are a bit obsessed with going out of their way to comment on every post about why they don't like Sony cameras or why they they won't buy their lenses. I swear many are simply trying to coach themselves out of GAS.

    It's all the same to me. I've come to accept them for what they really are - closet Sony fans. I think they spend more time lurking and commenting here than in the boards for cameras they own. That could be because Sony and MF are probably the two most active boards here usually with Micro 4/3 and Nikon probably about neck and neck.
    I don't quite understand this comment. Is my statement that I don't see the need to buy a newer Sony model being construed as anti-Sony? I like my A7 for what it can do with my lenses. I don't see the need for a newer model, for my use, at the present time. I'm thrilled to see all you other folks exploring and enjoying each of these new models as they come along, reporting their benefits and pitfalls.

    I do feel Sony is pushing the product cycle a bit too fast, but eh? Sony's nearly always done that. They produce pretty good products along the way.

    G

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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I

    Think about it: If somebody launched a DSLR with the ergonomics of the A7 and a tiny lens selection with a single lens sporting a larger aperture than 2.8, do you think they would survive for long?

    If this kind of critisism isn't welcome on the Sony forum, I can stop posting here right now. Maybe that will even bring Vivek back to the table. That would be nice, since his contributions are valuable.
    No Jorgen, you think about it - clearly you haven't enough,

    Sony didn't launch a DSLR, they launched a compact mirrorless FF camera that can mount almost any lens made for the 35mm format. I'm sorry if you are so offended that there are talented, thoughtful photographers out there embracing these tools.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    a900 user here (I can hear and feel the board ones dropping off of their seats and hear the door shutting as they leave the room). Many of you gear guys don't seem to realize that it doesn't matter which camera you use if your photos are crap. Crap in, crap out.

    My photos are hardly great but you know, the a900 works for me and what I like to do. An a9 won't make a better photographer if I don't have the drive to do better. An a7 in all of its various incarnations isn't going to make me a more exciting person, or a better husband and father. My Leica M6 will out live me and seems to do better than I do after it is dropped to the ground.

    It just seems to a lot of us that Sony is cranking out a new computer, er camera, every few months, and it really makes absolutely no difference in the quality of the photos and photographers out there.

    What is a Cron 75AA?
    Nothing wrong with the A900 Mikal!

    To be fair, I think what we are seeing here is the rapid development of a nascent platform and thus shorter product cycles. Personally, the draw of mirrorless was always the combination of compactness, lens flexibility and sensor performance. With the A7II, Sony further advanced mirrorless FF capability to a point where it draws near to the traditional capabilities of a modern SLR - and improves on them in some ways.

    You could guess that their goal is to make mirrorless a completely viable and preferred platform, thus the accelerated development. Those of us that choose to be on this ride should have eyes wide open to the fact that it is a developing platform, not a mature DSLR. Look at the poor A-mount users, wallowing in three year cycles on the high end. If you don't want to spend money on new gear, that is the place to be

    I think Sony is on a great pace with their FE products and I expect to see even more improvements in the next few years. Will any of those make you a better photographer? Probably not, you need an eye and a brain for that.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    I see nothing in this thread that constitutes anything more than the usual back and forth of differing opinions, expressed forthrightly and, for the most part, received in a spirit of politeness and respect that we are all accustomed to on get DPI. A lively debate is the sign of a healthy forum. It's O.K. to express 'anti-Sony' comments in a Sony thread, otherwise it's not a forum at all, merely propaganda. Singling out individuals for personal criticism because they express contrary opinions and then robustly defend them is unnecessary. Calling other members trolls for doing so is unnecessary and wrong. Nothing important is under attack here. We're just talking about cameras, that's all.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    No Jorgen, you think about it - clearly you haven't enough,

    Sony didn't launch a DSLR, they launched a compact mirrorless FF camera that can mount almost any lens made for the 35mm format. I'm sorry if you are so offended that there are talented, thoughtful photographers out there embracing these tools.
    I'm not offended by photographers using these tools. Photographers are entitled to use whatever cameras they choose. I'm offended by Sony's marketing hype and I question their intentions and ability to service all the camera models and standards that they have launched the last ten years.

    The camera business has been a relatively conservative one until recently, even after the introduction of digital cameras. The only reason to change that was to increase the profit of the corporations making most of the cameras. Frequent upgrades of cameras have lead to no improvement in images published whatsoever. There have been technical improvements that have made taking photos under certain circumstances easier, but nobody except the shareholders of companies like Sony, Nikon and Panasonic have much to earn from getting those upgrades on an annual basis.

    The result is that many photographers spend more money on cameras than ever before. One can always claim that this is each photographer's own choice, but with a constant commercial pressure and constant technical improvements, it's always tempting to upgrade. When you look at forums like this, forums that started with a fair balance between cameras and photos, it's very clear that the focus is increasingly tilted towards gear, and less towards creative solutions and actual photography.

    I find it ironic that some of the best photos on getdpi at the moment are posted on the Ricoh GR thread, a thread for a camera that is not new, has only been released in one version and cannot really be upgraded in any practical way.

    The A7 is a fine camera, although flawed in several ways, and many good photos are taken with it. The A9, if it comes to existence, will probably be even finer, but the commercial circus around it is just that: A Circus.

    And just to illustrate how short-lived these things have become:
    The last time Sony launched something that was even better than sliced bread, the RX1, it was easy to get the impression that photography would never be the same again. The last 6 months, fewer than one photo per week have been posted on the RX1 thread on this forum. The RX1 was introduced in September 2012, less than two and a half years ago. That's how long the Sony revolutions last. That's what I call consumerism.

    But when somebody offers me an A7 for less than $500, I'll consider it
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    I think Sony is on a great pace with their FE products and I expect to see even more improvements in the next few years. Will any of those make you a better photographer? Probably not, you need an eye and a brain for that.
    It's the only camera system where there's a real chance that there will be more different bodies available than lenses in the native mount, I'll give them that
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    There are people who can't let anyone else have the last word, especially when they know that word is "wrong." These people populate the internet.

    Someone Is Wrong On The Internet
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Nah... discontinued already, and will be replaced by some Swiss Army Knife kind of high tech plane that is supposed to do everything but can't really do anything properly. I believe it's called the F35. Must be a Nikon then

    A few years ago I was in a canoe out on a wilderness lake in the Adirondack mountains when an A10 dropped down over the tree tops and came screaming down the lake towards me kicking up a huge rooster tail of water. I could see the pilot grinning as he pulled up and took off. Took awhile for me to get my jaw back in place.
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    There are people who can't let anyone else have the last word, especially when they know that word is "wrong." These people populate the internet.

    Someone Is Wrong On The Internet
    Probably something wrong with my brain. I just love to be a nuisance
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    Re: A9: coming soon to you ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'm not offended by photographers using these tools. Photographers are entitled to use whatever cameras they choose. I'm offended by Sony's marketing hype and I question their intentions and ability to service all the camera models and standards that they have launched the last ten years.
    Then get off the internet. Stop going to SonyAlphaRumors. Go out and use your cameras to make photographs or something to help keep you from being drawn into the marketing spin cycle.

    Don't blame the purchase of cameras on the manufacturer. The consumer is the one making the purchase decision, and if they choose to upgrade, then that is their decision. You could only blame the manufacturer if they built a shoddy product that forced an upgrade (M8 anyone?).

    I don't need to defend Guy here, as I think he is the classic example of "early adopter". But, he sees the individual features/merits/capabilities of a camera or lens and makes a decision about whether that will be beneficial for his shooting, and whether the upgrade is worth it, whether that is in dollars of income, or personal satisfaction with the quality of the images he produces, or whatever it is that motivates any one of us.

    Also, you have to remember that people are spending more on their cameras now than ever before because they aren't spending it on FILM. The money that I used to spend on TXP and PKR plus all the LF and ULF film is instead being spent on the sensor. To me that is a reasonable trade in a somewhat twisted kind of way. After a few years of shooting, I can at least sell the camera for something, whereas all the film I've shot has little value to anyone but me, and only then the good images.

    If anyone has a right to be pissed at the camera manufacturers, it's the likes of Agfa, Ilford, and Kodak, who couldn't figure out how to transition from the film based market to digital, and look at where they are now; one gone, one a mere shadow of itself, and one that looks like it may survive but in diminished capacity.

    [[[Oh, and I'm not saying this to suggest that you (or anyone) should leave this forum or the internet, but that the OCD aspect of our nature and the readily available 'information' on the internet can lead to obsessive product watching and ultimately feeds into the sense that there is huge hype for a product. I think it's good for all of us to step away at times.]]]

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