A9: coming soon to you ...

[mesposito]

Kodachrome, product life: 74 years

Nikon F, product life: 14 years

Sony camera, product life: 1 year

The world is certainly changing. I wish I knew if it was for the better or for the worse

Jorgen - I think you know this, but this is not a completely valid comparison. The A7 was the first FF mirrorless, so it seems obvious to me that it would have a shorter lifespan, especially in today's competitive market. Hard to compare that with the Nikon. (or the way the market worked at that time)

I might agree with you on your true sentiment, which I believe is that it's depressing to be feature milked to death by camera manufacturers.

In this case though, I can't understand why we wouldn't want them to continue producing better versions as fast as they can. After-all, wasn't it you that was moving back to Nikon due to the lack of capabilities in mirrorless? It seems like a no-win then.

Do we want the new capabilities or not? If it were an $8000 camera body I could agree that it would be crazy, but especially with the A7/A7ii it's really a low-cost body.

Back to the A9...

If it materializes with 40+ megapixels, I'll just say this: Be careful what you wish for. I can see the hundreds of threads now bemoaning how native FE lenses can't resolve and we need all new lenses. Mark my words. You don't have be brilliant to see this coming.

I'd rather see them stop at 36mp and just make a better A7r.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

In 2004, all DSLR cameras had flaws. It was groundbreaking technology. In 2014/15, we have seen very little, if anything, that has been groundbreaking. Still, cameras are brought to the market with flaws, and still, new models are presented as some kind of revolution, even though they are just slight upgrades from the previous model, and in many cases introducing features that were known when the previous model was introduced. With few exceptions, this goes for all camera manufacturers.

It seems to me that many new cameras are brought to the market too fast, before a proper evaluation has been done with regards to available technology and what would be useful for the intended target group. Unfortunately, this seems to be accelerating and unfortunately, consumers seem to accept paying to work as beta testers for the industry. That is not what I call progress.

 

[Vivek]

Nikon did something similar with the 8000 medium format film scanner. It had a never acknowledged problem with the illumination changing color temperature in the course of a scan, resulting in a substantial color gradient across the length of a 6 x 9 scan. They came out with the 9000 a couple of years later which solved the problem, but never any acknowledgement, fix for the 8000, or credit of any kind to 8000 owners wishing to purchase a 9000.

Established liars and cheats.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen - I think you know this, but this is not a completely valid comparison. The A7 was the first FF mirrorless, so it seems obvious to me that it would have a shorter lifespan, especially in today's competitive market. Hard to compare that with the Nikon. (or the way the market worked at that time)

I might agree with you on your true sentiment, which I believe is that it's depressing to be feature milked to death by camera manufacturers.

In this case though, I can't understand why we wouldn't want them to continue producing better versions as fast as they can. After-all, wasn't it you that was moving back to Nikon due to the lack of capabilities in mirrorless? It seems like a no-win then.

Do we want the new capabilities or not? If it were an $8000 camera body I could agree that it would be crazy, but especially with the A7/A7ii it's really a low-cost body.

Back to the A9...

If it materializes with 40+ megapixels, I'll just say this: Be careful what you wish for. I can see the hundreds of threads now bemoaning how native FE lenses can't resolve and we need all new lenses. Mark my words. You don't have be brilliant to see this coming.

I'd rather see them stop at 36mp and just make a better A7r.

Sony could easily have produced the A7 II a year ago. There's nothing in the new model that wasn't known then, some things for decades (like a decent grip and a sensible position for the shutter release). Sony brings imperfect products to the market because they aim to sell you another, better one next year. It's part of their policy to keep you dissatisfied, to want something more as soon as the smell of new camera has evaporated.

Yes, these are new times, and the sixties won't come back. But I see an industry that is catering for consumerism as much as (or more than) they cater for photography. There's no way Sony will support all their cameras and all their standards forever. It's simply not economical. For how long will they be able to deliver parts for each model? 10 years? 5 years? 2 years?

The best Sony camera so far was the A900. I'm afraid it will remain there at the top of the heap for a long time, unless they have a big surprise in store for us with the A9 or whatever it will be called.

Sorry for being harsh, but as good as some of these cameras are, I see a negative development here. I've really left this train, but the stations seem to be on fire as far as I can see down the track...

 

[monza]

This is nothing new. Automobile companies have released new models every year, well, for years.

When I was a kid my dad would take me by all the car lots in the fall as soon as the new models hit.

There wasn't a lot of new technology being released...it was all about style, feeling, design, and 'deriving pleasure from owning and using it.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUDl78gdelM#t=0m42s

'Notice how your neighbors look on with admiration as you drive out in your new Chrysler'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i8857WvWyQ#t=0m34s

 

[Vivek]

The best Sony camera so far was the A900.

:ROTFL: That was a trailblazer of a camera when yours was a yesteryears Fuji Sx whatever. :ROTFL:

Never bought that one and you give a stamp of approval saying that was the best. :ROTFL:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

:ROTFL: That was a trailblazer of a camera when yours was a yesteryears Fuji Sx whatever. :ROTFL:

Never bought that one and you give a stamp of approval saying that was the best. :ROTFL:

Used 6 years old A900 bodies sell for about the same as used 1 year old A7 bodies.

I didn't buy it because I couldn't afford it and because I was too heavily invested in Nikkor lenses already.

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

Sorry for being harsh, but as good as some of these cameras are, I see a negative development here. I've really left this train, but the stations seem to be on fire as far as I can see down the track...

As you said: You're just taking a cheaper train a year or so later and it will whistle happely through all the beautifull stations. :salute:

 

[Vivek]

Yeah, once a gear becomes old and discontinued (be it film or a camera) then it is golden.

Someone should build a shrine. I will donate a bunch.

Used 6 years old A900 bodies sell for about the same as used 1 year old A7 bodies.

I didn't buy it because I couldn't afford it and because I was too heavily invested in Nikkor lenses already.

 

[Vivek]

As you said: You're just taking a cheaper train a year or so later and it will whistle happely through all the beautifull stations. :salute:

When my son was little we used to take him once a year to the south of the country to watch Thomas (the steam engine). Oh, I miss those good old steam engines.

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

The best Sony camera so far was the A900. .

True, in that it was a proper Nikon / Canon type dslr and intended to establish Sony as a serious player in the high end digital camera market, But it offered nothing new. I loved mine while I owned it.

The E-Mount mirror-less cameras starting with the NEX series are something much newer. Smaller, challenging the traditional form factor for full frame, and in the probable upcoming A9 E-mount, finally achieving full pro status and features, so Sony deserve some credit as mould breakers.

On the other hand, I find the A7r / A7II lack soul. They are great tech, and the A9 will no doubt be even better, but it's a computer with a lens mount - disposable here today, gone tomorrow technology. In comparison, I can understand why people shell out cash for a relatively antiquated design from Leica, and why film is having a bit of a revival.

By the way, things are not much better with medium format, except there is less innovation and the depreciation is ruinous.

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

We finally got rid of the smoke, Vivek

" A new gadget that lasts only five minutes is worth more than an immortal work that bores everyone " Francis Picabia

So hop in A9! I l'll wait for you. I am glad I did not buy all the in betweenies

 

[jaree]

...... I have just purchased a 1999 vintage Leica summilux 75mm f/1.4 to use on my A7r / A9 / A10 / A11 (etc.). Its back to the the future. I want some magic. It's all become too sterile.

Good choice. I splurged recently on a 1981 Summilux-R 80MM and am having so much fun with it on my A7. Like you, I plan to use it on the A11 when it is out.

 

[mesposito]

Sony could easily have produced the A7 II a year ago. There's nothing in the new model that wasn't known then, some things for decades (like a decent grip and a sensible position for the shutter release). Sony brings imperfect products to the market because they aim to sell you another, better one next year. It's part of their policy to keep you dissatisfied, to want something more as soon as the smell of new camera has evaporated.

Yes, these are new times, and the sixties won't come back. But I see an industry that is catering for consumerism as much as (or more than) they cater for photography. There's no way Sony will support all their cameras and all their standards forever. It's simply not economical. For how long will they be able to deliver parts for each model? 10 years? 5 years? 2 years?

The best Sony camera so far was the A900. I'm afraid it will remain there at the top of the heap for a long time, unless they have a big surprise in store for us with the A9 or whatever it will be called.

Sorry for being harsh, but as good as some of these cameras are, I see a negative development here. I've really left this train, but the stations seem to be on fire as far as I can see down the track...

Technology is never as simple to build and market as you might think. I don't think you're being harsh at all. As I said, I agree that they generally are in an environment that works as you describe it. That doesn't mean that they aren't catering to photographers as well though. We should be smarter than the consumers and buy new tech that helps us relative to the investment.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

But it's fascinating also. When the A7 was launched, I was thinking of buying one when the second hand prices went under $1,000, believing that I looked 2-3 years into the future. Now, we're there already, and I see the $500 label coming up in another 2 years, maybe earlier, particularly if many start migrating from the A7 II to the A9. I can see that happen within the coming year even.

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

On the other hand, I find the A7r / A7II lack soul. They are great tech, and the A9 will no doubt be even better, but it's a computer with a lens mount - disposable here today, gone tomorrow technology.

Quentin, most technology will be gone tomorrow sooner or later.
And don't you think we (photographers) are the ones who have to put "soul" into our images. At least the souls of the latest Sony's can handle a lot more shadow and highlight recovery as those from the Foveon sensors whose files are rather "clean" instead of full of "soul".

 

[dandrewk]

Comparisons to photographic gear from before the digital age is invalid. Back then, having an SLR set you apart from the crowd. How often would you go to popular tourist spot or events and see someone with an F2 (or similar)? Even the Brownie type point and shoots were relatively rare, compared to today. The more expensive SLRs were only for very serious hobbyists and pros.

Nowadays, everyone with a cell phone is a photographer, and this has led to an explosion of sales. Camera depts. at all the big box retailers are huge. This "easy entry" allowed more folks to get the bug, and want something better.

Of course the manufacturers are adjusting to the new found consumerism, because there are a LOT more consumers. More revenue, more R&D, more marketing, and more competition - all hallmarks of the much larger market. The A7 is not your Daddy's camera.

 

[Bill_Evans]

I guess I don't understand all this concern about depreciation of camera gear. I have an A7R and an A7II so I am into Sony bodies for close to $4k. And they are worth less and less every day. But I am using the heck out of these cameras for my personal and professional photography. To me it's not depreciation, it's just a use cost like skiing or a sporting events or whatever. Nobody seems to care that they are taking a hit when they buy sports tickets or lift passes or monthly cell plans, cable etc.

I guess it would bother me if I was collection camera bodies but I'm not. I'm pretty sure my hourly cost of owning these cameras will end up being pretty low. And a far better entertainment value that a movie ticket .

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I guess I don't understand all this concern about depreciation of camera gear. I have an A7R and an A7II so I am into Sony bodies for close to $4k. And they are worth less and less every day. But I am using the heck out of these cameras for my personal and professional photography. To me it's not depreciation, it's just a use cost like skiing or a sporting events or whatever. Nobody seems to care that they are taking a hit when they buy sports tickets or lift passes or monthly cell plans, cable etc.

I guess it would bother me if I was collection camera bodies but I'm not. I'm pretty sure my hourly cost of owning these cameras will end up being pretty low. And a far better entertainment value that a movie ticket .

Could not agree more . For me they make me money but even if they did not the depreciation is so low to usage value it's not remotely a concern.

 

[dandrewk]

Sony has long been the leader in mirrorless cameras, and they stand alone in FF mirrorless cameras. The A7 series has been a great success, and no doubt the competition has taken notice and will soon have their own FF offerings.

Sony needs to stay ahead of the the technological curve. They want to grab the DSLR owners who make the switch to mirrorless. They don't want Nikon/Canon etc. to introduce a new FF camera and have it sit next to a year old Sony on the dealer shelves.

I think we can see yearly updates for the foreseeable future.