A9: coming soon to you ...

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy is a bad example. He has been a happy early adopter of more or less every camera known to man, and that includes the M8

No, people are not making their own buying decisions. The whole point with aggressive marketing and planned product development is to convince people to buy products they don't need.

You can obviously spend your money any way you want, but rationalizing it by saying that because I don't need to spend them on film, I'll waste them on cameras instead, only shows that you are as much of a consumerist as Sony could ever dream of getting you to become. That's the way the world is going anyway, or so it seems, so if that lights your fire...

Agfa, Ilford and Kodak have no right to be pissed over anything other than their own lack of adaptability. In an ideal world, they should have seen what was coming some 30 years ago. But there is no ideal world, and riding on a current success is much easier than preparing for harder times. Fujifilm diversified in time, but they still help keeping film alive. That's very kind of them. I doubt they make much profit from it.

Oh, and I don't go to rumour sites. The rumour appeared in this forum, on this thread, or at least that is where I saw it. Like most here, I'm curious about what the A9 will be. If it will be. The last A-9 was rather nice:

Actually I beg to differ.. I research my purchases far more than anyone gives me credit for. I may take a calculated risk on a new cam but I'm very very rarely wrong. The A7II was a win win. I'm killing it here on this big gig. Lenses I like to play. But cameras are well researched.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm also not bothered by limitations as everyone of them has a work around that I will figure out how to get around.

 

[iiiNelson]

It is important to be very clear when one is trying to put forward a point of view.
Usually meanings get lost in ' translation ' or are misinterpreted.

Visuals often, but not necessarily always, can express a definition better than a sentence.

What is a ' troll '? And specifically in the context of a Sony forum?

1. ' Troll '. My first visual is from Norse mythology. Jorgen, you there?
Supernatural beings. These ones have seemingly fallen on hard times as they smoke and are selling socks and boxer shorts..

2. ' Troll '. In the context of a Sony forum, one has other toys but brings them to a Sony fest...

p.s. 3. ' Troll '...just being a pr**k on an internet forum; for example by saying that this is the most retarded thread on the internet.

( I am borrowing the explanation from the ' Urban Dictionary '). And obviously does not apply to anyone here.

I think most are okay with varying opinions. I think almost all Sony FE owners are or have adapted lenses on the bodies. I think most owners find it a bit offensive whether it's intentional or not to suggest that we are consumers taken by what's is being viewed by Jorgen as the most disingenuous marketing campaign ever... Even after the Canon Imagine or Nikon Df campaign.

I don't know... Maybe I personally am weird because while many Nikon users despised the Df campaign (and camera before using it) I thought it was the best thing they've released since the D3s.

 

[Godfrey]

Having plenty of choices is always a good thing.
...
I don't get the point in lurking on boards of "uninteresting products."

I do disagree with your first statement above. There are costs involved, one of which is lack of sophistication and refinement due to incremental development exchanged for new product development. This has been a problem with many product lines.. A proliferation of models with little to distinguish between them other than a bunch of new, unrefined features is a sure way to distraction.

But hey, I like Sony stuff. And I read the threads about their products because of that interest. The A7 is my sixth Sony camera over the past decade or so ... As with every other tool I buy, I bought it to fulfill my own needs, not just because it's the latest greatest thing or for some odd notion of a status object. It does a great job with my lenses and is the easiest to use pinhole camera I've ever had.

But mostly I read these threads to enjoy the thoughts and comments of my friends, and to occasionally learn something new.

G

 

[dandrewk]

I bought a Bose Soundlink II and Soundlink Mini, and in my room measured about a +5db bass boost in the 120 Hz region--not my idea of "accurate". I no longer own either.

Off topic - "accuracy" and "what sounds good to the ear" usually have very little in common. A lot of folks LOVE extra bass (hence "Beats"), and if you don't, it's the easiest tonal range to equalize.

That said, I never liked the Soundlink II. The Mini, however, is (imho) the best small BT portable speaker out there. With such a small speaker, I don't see how objective testing can apply.

On topic - the same goes for many lenses. For those who love that "Leica" or "Zeiss" look, nothing else will do, even if pixel peeping or examining the results on a colorimeter show them to sub-par.

 

[Tim]

So where does this thread leave a guy like me?

I've been using my GR and DP2M almost exclusively lately. I sold my EM-5 some time ago BUT now I am back in the market for a "System Camera" (something with a lens mount) to mount a camera on my Takahashi telescope for a bit of casual Astrophotography and hopefully a lot of Terrestrial photography with some standard lenses. I had the A7 II at the top of my list for reasons like its size and weight and that I think I am addicted to big sensors and IBIS.

In reality the Fuji XT1 seems to me it is a better system with a great lens lineup but when I look at the Sony images that you post here, they just seem that bit better. No, park that, I think somewhat better.

As a new buyer should I be buying the camera, the camera company or the images or all of it?

 

[Show Performance]

So where does this thread leave a guy like me?

I've been using my GR and DP2M almost exclusively lately. I sold my EM-5 some time ago BUT now I am back in the market for a "System Camera" (something with a lens mount) to mount a camera on my Takahashi telescope for a bit of casual Astrophotography and hopefully a lot of Terrestrial photography with some standard lenses. I had the A7 II at the top of my list for one main reason and that is size and weight and that I think I am addicted to big sensors and IBIS.

In reality the Fuji XT1 seems to me it is a better system with a great lens lineup but when I look at the Sony images, they just seem that bit better.

As a new buyer should I be buying the camera or the images or both?

I hear that the A7s is wonderful for astrophotography...

Not going to comment on the choice between Fuji and Sony but I think all of your comments are accurate.

 

[Show Performance]

The Mini, however, is (imho) the best small BT portable speaker out there. With such a small speaker, I don't see how objective testing can apply.

Have you heard the Logitech Boom? Silly name but really impressive BT speaker for the money.

 

[Tim]

I hear that the A7s is wonderful for astrophotography...
.

I did consider it seriously, but thought I would try to press the A7II to the job as in reality it will see equal or more work terrestrially and I like the IBIS relying on it a fair bit with the EM-5 days.

 

[4season]

As a new buyer should I be buying the camera, the camera company or the images or all of it?

Takahashi telescopes for casual use, there's a concept! I have an old 4" Tele Vue which sadly just sits at the back of my closet these days since I gave away the mount and really don't have a comfy place to set it up anymore. I should probably sell it and just get an Astroscan or a spotting scope.

[Back on topic] Buy the camera for what it can do for you right now. Don't buy in anticipation of what the company might do in the future, because that's just setting yourself up for disappointment, and I that goes for any camera company.

 

[Show Performance]

[Back on topic] Buy the camera for what it can do for you right now. Don't buy in anticipation of what the company might do in the future, because that's just setting yourself up for disappointment, and I that goes for any camera company.

Very much agreed.

The A7II is the first mirrorless that for me, today, approaches the functionality of the high-end A-mounts. It presents few compromises and I expect I will shoot it for at least as long as I did the A900 and original 5D before that.

 

[dandrewk]

[Back on topic] Buy the camera for what it can do for you right now. Don't buy in anticipation of what the company might do in the future, because that's just setting yourself up for disappointment, and I that goes for any camera company.

I totally disagree. Based on that, nobody would have purchased an A7/r.

Thus far, Sony has been 100% accurate on their lens roadmap. There's little reason to assume that won't continue. Look at the current and anticipated lens lineup and decide if those will work for you.

 

[4season]

I totally disagree. Based on that, nobody would have purchased an A7/r.

What's wrong with the A7R? I thought it was a very nice outfit from Day 1. I didn't opt for it because (A) it was out of stock and (B) I half-jokingly thought that I'd bring out my inner OCD and I'd want to shoot everything using a tripod and a 100mm apo macro lens.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

And finally while that new 4/300 Nikkor seems just such a big new invention - well keep in mind that Canon offered a 4/400 diffraction lens already at least some 10 years earlier. So while this lens is a good milestone for Nikon, overall it is not so overwhelmingly new.

I can agree to that, but the same can be said about any mirrorless camera since the G1 (first mirrorless), and certainly since the E-M5 (first mirrorless with IBIS):

- EVFs have been around since the first digital "bridge cameras" more than 10 years ago and in video cameras more or less since the beginning of time.
- IBIS was introduce with the Konica Minolta 7D in 2004.
- Adapted lenses from other systems have always existed, but it really took off with the Canon 5D. The original purpose of the "Alternative" forum on FM was just that, and the greatest Alternative Celebrity there was no other than Guy Mancuso.
- 35mm sensor in a compact body is the most recent non-video innovation, and was introduced with the Leica M9 in 2009.
- HD video in a stills camera with exchangeable lenses came with the Nikon D90 in 2008.
- 4K video in a stills camera with exchangeable lenses came with the Canon EOS 1D C in 2012, and Sony don't really have that still, at least not with internal recording.
- Radically shorter flange to sensor distance was introduced with the Panasonic G1 in 2009, and is the only of these inventions that was first introduced with a mirrorless camera.

Sony didn't introduce any of these inventions first, unless we count the Konica Minolta 7D as a Sony. Sony's achievement is to install a 35mm sensor (known technology, first introduced by Contax/Kyocera with the N Digital in 2000) in a mirrorless camera. From 2014, they added 5-axis IBIS (known technology, introduced by Olympus with the E-P5 in 2013). What Sony probably also did, was to read camera/photography forums on the internet. Photographers have been asking for a digital OM or FM almost since the first DSLR came out. Olympus responded with the E-M5 (small sensor), Fuji with the X-T1 (slightly bigger sensor), Nikon with the Df (big camera) and then Sony with what people really asked for:

A more or less retro styled mirrorless camera, the size of an OM or an FM, with a 35mm sensor. The user interface doesn't look much like that of an OM-1, but people seem to be living happily with that. It's a digital camera, and a Sony at that.

This is one of the things that Sony do best; listening to signals in the market and responding to them. Unfortunately, not all of their products that are born this way end up as commercial successes, but they are listening. If the A7 is a Walkman or an Elcaset remains to be seen. It's early days yet, and it all depends on their marketing department and the competition. The challenge for Sony is that although many want it, nobody really needs an A7.

 

[Malina DZ]

...he spontaneously answered "The A9 will be A-mount"...

An exciting rumor until I saw this: http://youtu.be/06kZXq3W5do?t=22m48s

So, Sony goes on confusing its consumers even further, and it's no longer an "Alpha line" but "Alpha mount" system now

 

[dandrewk]

What's wrong with the A7R? I thought it was a very nice outfit from Day 1. I didn't opt for it because (A) it was out of stock and (B) I half-jokingly thought that I'd bring out my inner OCD and I'd want to shoot everything using a tripod and a 100mm apo macro lens.

Who said there was something "wrong" with that A7r?

I was responding to you posting that one should not base a camera purchase based on future lens releases. How many lenses were available for the A7/r when first released?

Any new system will be extremely limited with lens choices right out of the gate. Sony has not made unfulfilled or even vague promises regarding their lens roadmap. There's plenty of reliable info for potential buyers to make an informed choice about the current and future lens availability. It's a bit more than what's "currently available", unless you have an immediate need.

 

[Malina DZ]

the Touit line is an interesting side story.

It taught a good lesson to all 3-d party lens manufacturers who were thinking of trying to enter FE/E-mount club with AF lenses. Sony NEX line PDAF is still not supported by Touits. Guess why Zeiss decided to stick to manual focus in Loxia line?

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

An exciting rumor until I saw this: http://youtu.be/06kZXq3W5do?t=22m48s

So, Sony goes on confusing its consumers even further, and it's no longer an "Alpha line" but "Alpha mount" system now

64 lenses... he he... they are probably close to that already if you add A-mount full frame, A-mount crop frame, E-mount and FE-mount, and that is probably what he's doing.

 

[Show Performance]

64 lenses... he he... they are probably close to that already if you add A-mount full frame, A-mount crop frame, E-mount and FE-mount, and that is probably what he's doing.

But he forgot all those old Minolta AF lenses

 

[wallpaperviking]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I would desperately love to see more crop options on the new Sony..

Namely a 5:4 ratio!

At this stage, I have the back screen taped up to represent this but when using the eyepiece, there is only 3:2 or 16:9.

Other options would be nice as well, 1:1 would be awesome and something that I often use on my Ricoh GR

The other option which would be nice but will probably never happen, is to have the camera crop to a certain aspect ratio ( 5:4 ) but then have the full 3:2 sensor file captured, leaving the option to creatively crop in post..

That is one really nice thing about the higher end Nikon DSLR's, they have a 5:4 option and it is something that I much prefer.. I t also is much closer to many medium format film cameras..

What do you guys think?