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Thread: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

  1. #151
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    Read my post again Jorgen, I said, paired with the A7 bodies. Even if they are equivalent lens weights, the Sony is going to be a lighter combination that takes less volume in your bag.

    You can play the lens equivalent game all day and lose.

    Canon 5D Mark III with 16-35mm f/4 860g + 615G = 1475g (plus camera body bulk and extra 3/4" of lens length when packed in your bag)

    A7mII with 16-35 f/4 550g + 518 = 1068g and a smaller volume package.

    Want to compare to the Nikon D810 and A7r?

    880g+680g = 1560g (plus a full 1" longer lens) vs 407g+518g= 925g and a much smaller volume package.

    Basically the weight of the lens is saved in this comparison!!!

    In my case, the difference is even more drastic. I carry 2 bodies and at times, even 3 for my photo trips. My current bodies are a M240 and a A7R. But if I did not have the M240, I will probably add another A7. With 2 A7's the difference in weight is over 1kg! Moreover, with the M240 or A7R, I can make do with a smaller and lighter Gitzo traveler tripod. I have back packed my equipment to remote and at times extreme places, Namibia, Ethiopia, Inner Mongolia, etc. Having to trek or hike several km in sweltering heat or extreme cold is tough. Any savings in weight and volume is always welcome.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve P. View Post
    Fair enough, Cam. I think using a fast aperture lens just because you like it is all the reason anyone needs to do just that. I do think the balance is shifting, though - even in low lit night street shots or stage performance, where f1.4 is useful but no longer quite so essential as once it was. I agree there will be times where nothing but speed will do, it's just that those times are fewer and further between nowadays.
    I still think you are missing the point of a faster aperture lens... for some of us.

    It isn't just to record more light ... or just because we "mindlessly" like it.

    A 35/1.4 shot at a distance can provide "subject isolation" while retaining acuity for the whole subject being isolated (look at the DOF scale on a lens that actually has one ... wide-angles really increase DOF dramatically as distance increases).

    That ability to selectively isolate a subject from a busy scenario is harder to do with a f/4 max aperture wide-angle. Conversely, I can stop down any f/1.4 lens to f/4 but cannot open up a f/4 lens to f/1.4. f/1.8, f/2, or f/3.5 to control the point of interest I want in the photo.

    Also, given the motion of the subject as a shutter-speed factor, I prefer to use the lowest ISO possible for the lighting conditions ... or conversely, use a higher ISO to stop action rather than gather more light.

    All that said, I wouldn't specifically argue against slower lenses that are smaller to match the size of these Sony cameras. I specifically like the FE35/2.8 for the same reason I used to like the Leica 50/2/8 collapsible ... it is small and reasonable in performance. Meanwhile I also used a 50/1.4 or Noctilux when appropriate.


    - Marc
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I still think you are missing the point of a faster aperture lens... for some of us.

    It isn't just to record more light ... or just because we "mindlessly" like it.

    A 35/1.4 shot at a distance can provide "subject isolation" while retaining acuity for the whole subject being isolated (look at the DOF scale on a lens that actually has one ... wide-angles really increase DOF dramatically as distance increases).

    That ability to selectively isolate a subject from a busy scenario is harder to do with a f/4 max aperture wide-angle. Conversely, I can stop down any f/1.4 lens to f/4 but cannot open up a f/4 lens to f/1.4. f/1.8, f/2, or f/3.5 to control the point of interest I want in the photo.

    Also, given the motion of the subject as a shutter-speed factor, I prefer to use the lowest ISO possible for the lighting conditions ... or conversely, use a higher ISO to stop action rather than gather more light.

    All that said, I wouldn't specifically argue against slower lenses that are smaller to match the size of these Sony cameras. I specifically like the FE35/2.8 for the same reason I used to like the Leica 50/2/8 collapsible ... it is small and reasonable in performance. Meanwhile I also used a 50/1.4 or Noctilux when appropriate.


    - Marc
    I agree with however I personally find f2.0 a very good compromise between DOF control and size in the 35-50mm range.
    Thats also the reason why now my favorite M lenses are the 35/2.0 and 50APO.
    I also think 55/1.8 is just right, why I would prefer a 35/2.0 over both the 35/2.8 and the pretty big 35/1.4.
    With all respect to Speed requirements I think ergonomics are also important and a balanced weight and size between Body and lens is important as well.
    No Problem to use a Sigma ART 35/1.4 on a 5dIII, but in regards of handling I was not so totally happy with the Noctilux 0.95 on the M9.
    Tom
    Last edited by Paratom; 14th January 2015 at 03:00.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I still think you are missing the point of a faster aperture lens... for some of us.

    It isn't just to record more light ... or just because we "mindlessly" like it.

    A 35/1.4 shot at a distance can provide "subject isolation" while retaining acuity for the whole subject being isolated (look at the DOF scale on a lens that actually has one ... wide-angles really increase DOF dramatically as distance increases).

    That ability to selectively isolate a subject from a busy scenario is harder to do with a f/4 max aperture wide-angle. Conversely, I can stop down any f/1.4 lens to f/4 but cannot open up a f/4 lens to f/1.4. f/1.8, f/2, or f/3.5 to control the point of interest I want in the photo.

    Also, given the motion of the subject as a shutter-speed factor, I prefer to use the lowest ISO possible for the lighting conditions ... or conversely, use a higher ISO to stop action rather than gather more light.

    All that said, I wouldn't specifically argue against slower lenses that are smaller to match the size of these Sony cameras. I specifically like the FE35/2.8 for the same reason I used to like the Leica 50/2/8 collapsible ... it is small and reasonable in performance. Meanwhile I also used a 50/1.4 or Noctilux when appropriate.


    - Marc
    My original point was that thanks to improvements in high ISO there are fewer (not no) occasions when f1.4 is ESSENTIAL. I think that nowadays an aperture of f2-f2.8 will suffice in many, but not all, circumstances. When it doesn't then of course, as Cam and yourself correctly point out, only f1.4 will do. For myself, and only for myself, I find f2.8-f4 to be sufficient most of the time. Your point about smaller, slower lenses to better match the size of these Sony bodies is one I concur with.
    When I said that using a fast aperture lens because you like it is all the reason anyone needs to do just that I was in no way inferring that to do so would be to behave 'mindlessly', as you put it. I merely meant that pleasing yourself in how you choose to make photographs is all the justification any of us needs.
    Your points about subject isolation and motion are well taken and appreciated.

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsng View Post
    With 2 A7's the difference in weight is over 1kg!
    I don't know what camera you compare with to get more than 1kg weight service using 2 A7 bodies, but:

    2 Sony A7 II bodies with battery weighs 1,198 grams
    2 Nikon D750 bodies with battery weighs 1,500 grams

    Difference: 302 grams

    But, to get the same battery capacity with the Sonys as you have with the Nikons, you need at least 2 extra batteries per body for the Sonys (you actually need more). That is 4 x 42.5 grams = 170 grams, which reduces the weight difference to 132 grams.

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    I have never heard of a back up for a (digital) Holga!
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't know what camera you compare with to get more than 1kg weight service using 2 A7 bodies, but:

    2 Sony A7 II bodies with battery weighs 1,198 grams
    2 Nikon D750 bodies with battery weighs 1,500 grams

    Difference: 302 grams

    But, to get the same battery capacity with the Sonys as you have with the Nikons, you need at least 2 extra batteries per body for the Sonys (you actually need more). That is 4 x 42.5 grams = 170 grams, which reduces the weight difference to 132 grams.
    He said that most of the time he needs two bodies. And it isn't very fair to take the A7II in the comparison, since they are way heavier than the first three of the series. The A7r he owns weight 465gr x 2 = 930 gr.. aka less than one single D810 body. If he needs two bodies, then the difference reaches 1030gr. aka 1kg.. Also depending upon one's style of shooting one may not use as many batteries as you pretend to need.

    So I think this last comment isn't very fair. Although it is clear that if you need size reduction for the whole system, then you have to pick smaller slower lenses with shorter focal lengths.

    I think that there is a place for a smaller FF system and it can be had with the A7 series. Also the mirrorless system offers you more advanced features in a number of cases : like the EVF (I won't return to OVF) and more ease for MF focusing (unless you want to use zone focusing with a shorter focal length)
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Also the mirrorless system offers you more advanced features in a number of cases : like the EVF (I won't return to OVF) and more ease for MF focusing (unless you want to use zone focusing with a shorter focal length)
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/50...xperience.html

    That brought back a lot of memories.

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't know what camera you compare with to get more than 1kg weight service using 2 A7 bodies, but:

    2 Sony A7 II bodies with battery weighs 1,198 grams
    2 Nikon D750 bodies with battery weighs 1,500 grams

    Difference: 302 grams

    But, to get the same battery capacity with the Sonys as you have with the Nikons, you need at least 2 extra batteries per body for the Sonys (you actually need more). That is 4 x 42.5 grams = 170 grams, which reduces the weight difference to 132 grams.
    My comparison is between the D810 vs the A7R, since both are 36mpx.

    D810 = 980g (batt + card)
    A7R = 465g (batt + card)

    A7R battery weighs about 42g

    You can do the math.

    As for the number of batteries, based on my actual field usage, I am getting around 250+ per charge. Therefore, with 2 batteries I am getting 500+ per day of shooting. Therefore, if I were to carry 2 X A7R, I can shoot 1000+ shots per day. The actual number of images I shoot per day is much lower. I am not one of those that shoot machine gun style.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsng View Post
    My comparison is between the D810 vs the A7R, since both are 36mpx.

    D810 = 980g (batt + card)
    A7R = 465g (batt + card)

    A7R battery weighs about 42g

    You can do the math.

    As for the number of batteries, based on my actual field usage, I am getting around 250+ per charge. Therefore, with 2 batteries I am getting 500+ per day of shooting. Therefore, if I were to carry 2 X A7R, I can shoot 1000+ shots per day. The actual number of images I shoot per day is much lower. I am not one of those that shoot machine gun style.
    Great comparison.

    I actually pack three bodies when shooting music festivals, one being the RX1 and can shoot primes vs. big heavy zooms without having to switch lenses. Having one camera on a shoulder strap and two in my small domke is unbelievable. The more traditional DSLR shooters are generally packing two big bodies with heavy zooms and having to wear the "christmas tree" rapid straps to equalize all the weight.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsng View Post
    My comparison is between the D810 vs the A7R, since both are 36mpx.

    D810 = 980g (batt + card)
    A7R = 465g (batt + card)

    A7R battery weighs about 42g

    You can do the math.

    As for the number of batteries, based on my actual field usage, I am getting around 250+ per charge. Therefore, with 2 batteries I am getting 500+ per day of shooting. Therefore, if I were to carry 2 X A7R, I can shoot 1000+ shots per day. The actual number of images I shoot per day is much lower. I am not one of those that shoot machine gun style.
    For some purposes, the A7R is the superior camera, but comparing the smallest full frame interchangeable lens camera with one of the largest will obviously give dramatic differences as result. The only thing those two cameras have in common is the sensor and the fact that the shutter release is placed on top of the camera, so the comparison is only valid if weight and size are the main criteria.

    I suppose it's only a question of months before the A7R will be replaced by an A7R II or A9, which will probably change the tables again. Hopefully, the A9 will have a larger battery.

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    For some purposes, the A7R is the superior camera, but comparing the smallest full frame interchangeable lens camera with one of the largest will obviously give dramatic differences as result. The only thing those two cameras have in common is the sensor and the fact that the shutter release is placed on top of the camera, so the comparison is only valid if weight and size are the main criteria.
    I thought he made it clear that the comparison was due to the 36mp sensor. What other camera is he going to shoot that is smaller than the D810 and has 36mp?
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    it's only a question of months before the A7R will be replaced by an A7R II or A9
    Wow. That's a really long cycle, isn't it? What's the reason for the delay, I wonder.

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post

    I suppose it's only a question of months before the A7R will be replaced by an A7R II or A9, which will probably change the tables again.
    Can't wait for even more Nikon shooters abandoning ship and joining us here.

    You are doing a swell job, btw!
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    I wonder if the reason why Sony and some others are producing f1.4 lenses is - like for the Otus lens - also related to the fact that lenses are better at their center and that this becomes critical for today's sensors.
    Larger glasses meaning larger central part meaning better performance on high resolution sensors + wide aperture option.
    The benefit could be double: high speed lenses with high resolving power for the center and borders of the sensor, and give better IQ at any aperture.
    In other words, an f1.4 lens would probably give better corner performance at f5.6 than an f2.8 lens with the same kind of glass and cosntruction.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/50...xperience.html

    That brought back a lot of memories.
    I don't know for Nikons, but for Canons I had to choose between a VF with grid lines (helping to keep the camera level and parallel to buildings) and a finder allowing better manual focusing. I needed the gridlines, so never got a nice finder for MF. I have had three Canon bodies : Canon D60, Canon 5D and Canon 6D, all the same. I know the 1D series had more choice for the finder screens, but given the weight I never considered getting one. So I'm really enjoying EVF.. even if I have to switch between different views to get all what I want.

    Plus they offer a more or less liveview of how your wb and exposure will look.
    Last edited by Annna T; 14th January 2015 at 09:42.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    In other words, an f1.4 lens would probably give better corner performance at f5.6 than an f2.8 lens with the same kind of glass and cosntruction.
    Hi There
    As I understand it, that doesn't follow - which is why, for instance, the Leica 50 APO summicron is f2, and not f1.4. As the largest aperture get's wider there are more corrections needed, which may compromise IQ at smaller apertures.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Can't wait for even more Nikon shooters abandoning ship and joining us here.

    You are doing a swell job, btw!
    Won't happen. We are all enjoying our digital Holgas too much

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    The traffic over there would have fooled me!

    or may be you are speaking for that silent and invisible majority?

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    That's because we're out taking photos. Me? I just have to figure out where I insert the CF card with my new Nikon first:

    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 16th January 2015 at 22:40.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    I hear they're flying off the shelves!

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Here is an interesting hands on comparison of the new lenses to judge their size Sony FE 28 F2, 35 F1.4 ZA, 90 F2.8 G Macro & FE 24-240mm
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    The size of the Sony FE's is why I have stuck with M lenses on my A7s. I see promise in the Loxia set, but one forgoes autofocus, should that be one's bag.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    The size of the Sony FE's is why I have stuck with M lenses on my A7s. I see promise in the Loxia set, but one forgoes autofocus, should that be one's bag.
    What struck me first when I looked at the link Slingers posted was how the 28mm f2 looks fairly close to Loxia size. F2 plus AF in a walk around focal length is a pretty nice package, I'd say.
    Then again, it is pictured next to the FE55 so maybe not so compact as all that?

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve P. View Post
    What struck me first when I looked at the link Slingers posted was how the 28mm f2 looks fairly close to Loxia size. F2 plus AF in a walk around focal length is a pretty nice package, I'd say.
    Then again, it is pictured next to the FE55 so maybe not so compact as all that?
    Here is the 55 next to the loxia 50 as well as the Otus. The new FE 28/2 does look to be roughly the same size https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/berlin...e/14968701879/
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slingers View Post
    Here is the 55 next to the loxia 50 as well as the Otus. The new FE 28/2 does look to be roughly the same size https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/berlin...e/14968701879/
    As the 55/1.8 or the Loxia?

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Loxia, from the look of the picture. See the link in post #172 above...

    --Matt
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Loxia, from the look of the picture. See the link in post #172 above...

    --Matt
    So I figured, but with Sony you never knowů That, plus it sounded like the graphic included the 28mm -- which it didn't.

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    As the 55/1.8 or the Loxia?
    The New 28 looks to be a similar size to the loxia 50.

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slingers View Post
    The New 28 looks to be a similar size to the loxia 50.
    merci.
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    So I figured, but with Sony you never know… That, plus it sounded like the graphic included the 28mm -- which it didn't.
    The 28 55 comparison is further down the page. If you scroll down, it's there. Unless you were referring to the Otus picture. No 28 there...

    Nice size. Here's hoping the glass impresses.

    --Matt
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    The 28 55 comparison is further down the page. If you scroll down, it's there. Unless you were referring to the Otus picture. No 28 there...

    Nice size. Here's hoping the glass impresses.

    --Matt
    Further down the page? God, I hate Flickr nowů There is no further down the page for me, sigh.

    Ah well, I agree with you on the glass -- here's hoping!

    (and I'm still not sure whether I prefer manual/zone focus with a 28mm or notů but that's me and AF, not Sony)

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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Cam,

    I'm talking about the link in post #172 that goes to the briansmith dot com. That has a bunch of pictures of the lenses, including the 28 vs. 55.

    --Matt
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  34. #184
    Senior Member
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Cam,

    I'm talking about the link in post #172 that goes to the briansmith dot com. That has a bunch of pictures of the lenses, including the 28 vs. 55.

    --Matt
    Can I blame wine? It's near midnight here...
    my flickr
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  35. #185
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    Re: New Sony lens mockups. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slingers View Post
    The New 28 looks to be a similar size to the loxia 50.
    That makes the 28 a really nice combination of size, speed, AF and focal length for the Sony A7 series. Thanks Slingers.
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