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Thread: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

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    what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    My background is a hobbyist with a very active and always running toddler (2.8 year old). In fact he never stops, he only stops when he goes to sleep. And when he stops for less than a second his head and body never sit still, he always moving. I've owned most cameras from most manufacturers through Canon 5DM3 on Canon side and through Nikon D800 on Nikon side. Also owned most mirrorless up to Oly EM1, Fuji XT1. As many others I am sure I got tired of carrying a DSLR with few lenses and a baby bag in another hand and dealing with a child while having large camera hanging on me. So Enter Sony. And I went all Sony.

    I owned the original A7, A7r, and A7II from A7 class. I've never owned A7s. A7r - great camera but I could never get a still shot of my son. Too slow for that child. So I had high hopes for A7II. After a month and a half with A7II I sold it this morning. Nice camera but again the AF is just not there for my general use - It is clearly better than A7r and A7, and I was able to track my child running toward me outside however, inside in low light... not so awesome.

    My other two Sony cameras are A6000 and A850. Ironically A850 with its ancient AF mechanism, I get much more keepers of my child indoors in focus with same lenses than A7II with either native FE lenses, or A7II with LA-EA4 adapter and same A mount lenses I use on A850 (24-70/2.8 ZA and 85/1.4 ZA). However, A850 produces great shots at base ISO, however high ISO is not a match for most others modern Full Frame Cameras.

    So I sold A7II and I am thinking of these 5 routes:
    1) A7s. Could it be a perfect camera for me? Low light higher shutter speeds and impressive low light performance? Is this camera specifically designed for me? but how is AF (I know EV-4 is great but how is the speed of acquisition?) It is nice to know that your camera will find the focus eventually in low light, but my child will be gone by then. So I need both great sensitivity and quick acquisition speeds.
    2) A77II. Could it be a perfect camera for me? I have not tried it, but Gary Fong and some others state that despite the fact that it has less phase AF points than A6000 it is actually faster camera than A6000 due to 15 x-type phase af points and overall operations. And it has EV-2. (A6000 is EV0) Would it be my perfect camera? Will I like its high ISO results?
    3) Wait a month to see if the next Sony A7 class camera is the holy grail.
    4) Go back to Full frame DSLRS of Canikon - all problems above solved - great AF speed, great low light performance, many keepers, but then having to deal with original problem of having to carry large and heavy dslrs when I am not inside.
    5) Go to m43. Quick acquisition speeds in low light, best Face recognition AF on the market, superior IBIS in Olympus, small and fast lenses. Problem: Every picture shot above ISO800 is disguasting with noise as a result of small sensor size.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    My background is a hobbyist with a very active and always running toddler (2.8 year old). In fact he never stops, he only stops when he goes to sleep. And when he stops for less than a second his head and body never sit still, he always moving. I've owned most cameras from most manufacturers through Canon 5DM3 on Canon side and through Nikon D800 on Nikon side. Also owned most mirrorless up to Oly EM1, Fuji XT1. As many others I am sure I got tired of carrying a DSLR with few lenses and a baby bag in another hand and dealing with a child while having large camera hanging on me. So Enter Sony. And I went all Sony.

    I owned the original A7, A7r, and A7II from A7 class. I've never owned A7s. A7r - great camera but I could never get a still shot of my son. Too slow for that child. So I had high hopes for A7II. After a month and a half with A7II I sold it this morning. Nice camera but again the AF is just not there for my general use - It is clearly better than A7r and A7, and I was able to track my child running toward me outside however, inside in low light... not so awesome.

    My other two Sony cameras are A6000 and A850. Ironically A850 with its ancient AF mechanism, I get much more keepers of my child indoors in focus with same lenses than A7II with either native FE lenses, or A7II with LA-EA4 adapter and same A mount lenses I use on A850 (24-70/2.8 ZA and 85/1.4 ZA). However, A850 produces great shots at base ISO, however high ISO is not a match for most others modern Full Frame Cameras.

    So I sold A7II and I am thinking of these 5 routes:
    1) A7s. Could it be a perfect camera for me? Low light higher shutter speeds and impressive low light performance? Is this camera specifically designed for me? but how is AF (I know EV-4 is great but how is the speed of acquisition?) It is nice to know that your camera will find the focus eventually in low light, but my child will be gone by then. So I need both great sensitivity and quick acquisition speeds.
    2) A77II. Could it be a perfect camera for me? I have not tried it, but Gary Fong and some others state that despite the fact that it has less phase AF points than A6000 it is actually faster camera than A6000 due to 15 x-type phase af points and overall operations. And it has EV-2. (A6000 is EV0) Would it be my perfect camera? Will I like its high ISO results?
    3) Wait a month to see if the next Sony A7 class camera is the holy grail.
    4) Go back to Full frame DSLRS of Canikon - all problems above solved - great AF speed, great low light performance, many keepers, but then having to deal with original problem of having to carry large and heavy dslrs when I am not inside.
    5) Go to m43. Quick acquisition speeds in low light, best Face recognition AF on the market, superior IBIS in Olympus, small and fast lenses. Problem: Every picture shot above ISO800 is disguasting with noise as a result of small sensor size.
    Hello Absolutic:
    I think you summed up the current state of the art for stills cameras. Boiled down, it comes down to:
    1) Some very expensive DSLRs can have great autofocus, very low noise at high ISO and are huge.
    2) Some not so expensive m4/3 cameras are small have pretty good autofocus and not so low noise at high ISO
    3) Some not so cheap Sony full frame mirrorless cameras are somewhat smaller, have limited autofocus, very low noise at high ISO.

    How about a m4/3 camera (or possibly a Sony A6000) for outdoor daytime and a D4S (or if you want to save a little money a D3S) for indoor shooting? At least during the day you can travel light

    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by jfirneno; 31st January 2015 at 10:56. Reason: added the D3S option

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Have you tried the Leica T? If it does not work as well, atleast you would have used a sleek looking one with a monobody.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    Hello Absolutic:
    I think you summed up the current state of the art for stills cameras. Boiled down, it comes down to:
    1) Some very expensive DSLRs can have great autofocus, very low noise at high ISO and are huge.
    2) Some not so expensive m4/3 cameras are small have pretty good autofocus and not so low noise at high ISO
    3) Some not so cheap Sony full frame mirrorless cameras are somewhat smaller, have limited autofocus, very low noise at high ISO.

    How about a m4/3 camera (or possibly a Sony A6000) for outdoor daytime and a D4S (or if you want to save a little money a D3S) for indoor shooting? At least during the day you can travel light

    Regards,
    John

    Do u believe the af in d750/810 is inferior to d3/4s?

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    return of the CANON!

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    Do u believe the af in d750/810 is inferior to d3/4s?
    Absolutic:
    I'll have to defer to the Nikon shooters. I used the D3S and found it to have both good indoor AF and very good high ISO noise levels (at least up to 6400). But that's the last generation of Nikon's low light king. For all I know the 750 is just as good as the D3S in both AF and low light performance. I have read that the D4S is the reigning champ for Nikon so that must mean it's as least as good. So I'm just ballparking what's needed.

    The good news is that there are plenty of folks from the Nikon camp here and I'm sure they can point to the comparisons (DXO and all that stuff) in as much gory detail as anyone can stand. With their help you should be able to buy the right amount of camera.

    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by jfirneno; 31st January 2015 at 15:29. Reason: Fixed a broken quote line

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    return of the CANON!
    I'd prefer to stick with Sony if possible due to the fact I own great lenses like 24-70 Zeiss 2.8 and 85 1.4 Zeiss in A mount and 55 Zeiss 1.8 in FE mount, but I suppose there is always chance to go back to Canon (or Nikon).

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Have you tried the Leica T? If it does not work as well, atleast you would have used a sleek looking one with a monobody.
    I have not tried the Leica T.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    You dont mention what lenses you are trying to use. Wide/Normal/Tele?

    The Pentax K3 is about as small and light as a DSLR gets. Its worth investigating if it could keep up with AF.

    One aspect, maybe you need to consider to keep a number of tools. A good DSLR for home use and something else lightweight when out.

    I am thinking laterally and out on a limb and suggest a Ricoh GR, use it in Snap mode and wait for the subject to be in that focus zone. The 28mm wide has good DOF also assisting the situation. The GR sure solves the weight issue.

    A DSLR with a compact prime is also another way of paring weight. Take ?? maybe 2 primes. A 50 and a 28 and see how you fare?

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    Ironically A850 with its ancient AF mechanism, I get much more keepers of my child indoors in focus with same lenses than A7II with either native FE lenses, or A7II with LA-EA4 adapter and same A mount lenses I use on A850 (24-70/2.8 ZA and 85/1.4 ZA). However, A850 produces great shots at base ISO, however high ISO is not a match for most others modern Full Frame Cameras.
    Good heavens ... you have identified the limitation of all the cameras that people are fawning over ... they are small cute have nice specs but do not deliver real time pics with a decent AF....

    With all the cash you ... and the rest of us ... have thrown at the wall you could have purchased and learned how to us a flash/stobe/battery pack studio light to cover your low ISO 850.....

    May be time to step off the upgrade equipment path and learn a bit about photography....

    My take is the 850 is a fabulous camera ... unless you want to carry a Canon 1Dx Nikon D4 or Df .... and even then a decent light with softbox will overwhelm a lot of your captures indoors unless you have a studio with North light.

    Black and White ... buy a Leica Monochrom and a Noctilux....

    Children move in spite of our best efforts ... imagine trying to do portraits with a Sinar F2 4x5 with a 5 year old...my daughter is now 33 and she still is a bit camera shy...duh.

    Sony has embraced a small size poor AF limited VF camera that while great for landscapes and static subjects is a bit limited for very active subjects.

    I have run the gamut .... Leica Ms Monochrome S2 S 006 Nikon D3 D3s Canon 1D 1Ds MkII 5D 1Dx Sony 850 A7r A7s Rx1 Rx1R ... all of them benefit from a decent undestanding and use of light....

    Great light any camera works ... poor light none of them do.

    Best luck with the cameras and the child.

    Truth be told your memories will outweigh any picture you capture....

    Use you eye and plan to maximize your limited time with your son ... it all passes too quickly.

    Regards,

    Bob
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    You dont mention what lenses you are trying to use. Wide/Normal/Tele?

    The Pentax K3 is about as small and light as a DSLR gets. Its worth investigating if it could keep up with AF.

    One aspect, maybe you need to consider to keep a number of tools. A good DSLR for home use and something else lightweight when out.

    I am thinking laterally and out on a limb and suggest a Ricoh GR, use it in Snap mode and wait for the subject to be in that focus zone. The 28mm wide has good DOF also assisting the situation. The GR sure solves the weight issue.

    A DSLR with a compact prime is also another way of paring weight. Take ?? maybe 2 primes. A 50 and a 28 and see how you fare?
    thanks for the suggestion, the name Pentax has never crossed my mind. UP until this morning my latest camera set was Sony A850, A7II and A6000. I sold the A7II this morning, as I was shooting more with A850 and A6000 than with it. I'd love to get it down to just two cameras as I am a hobbyist and not a pro, but I've enjoyed photography as a hobby for a while now.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post

    Truth be told your memories will outweigh any picture you capture....

    Use you eye and plan to maximize your limited time with your son ... it all passes too quickly.

    Regards,

    Bob
    There is a lot of truth in this.

    At my kids birthdays I got tired of seeing most of the event through a viewfinder.
    Sure record some memories but don't forget to be part of it yourself.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    thanks for the suggestion, the name Pentax has never crossed my mind. UP until this morning my latest camera set was Sony A850, A7II and A6000. I sold the A7II this morning, as I was shooting more with A850 and A6000 than with it. I'd love to get it down to just two cameras as I am a hobbyist and not a pro, but I've enjoyed photography as a hobby for a while now.
    I did a quick look at the K3 and I have my doubts about its AF. Check it out anyway

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post

    May be time to step off the upgrade equipment path and learn a bit about photography....

    My take is the 850 is a fabulous camera ... unless you want to carry a Canon 1Dx Nikon D4 or Df .... and even then a decent light with softbox will overwhelm a lot of your captures indoors unless you have a studio with North light.

    Bob
    Bob the post sounds condescending in a way....I know a little bit about photography..... I also own flashes and softboxes ...... and I know a little bit about using all of the above..... But I understand what you're trying to say....we can all work around limitations of our cameras with right tools.

    I do agree that spending time with your child is priceless, they grow so fast.....

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    ...
    5) Go to m43. Quick acquisition speeds in low light, best Face recognition AF on the market, superior IBIS in Olympus, small and fast lenses. Problem: Every picture shot above ISO800 is disguasting with noise as a result of small sensor size.
    Sorry, but I disagree completely. With the E-M1, E-M5, E-P5, and E-PL7 ISO 3200 is quite clean and ISO 6400 is right on par with the Sony A7 (which I also have). the Sony A7 maintains lower noise another stop or two, but up to ISO 6400 there's very little to tell them apart. And of course all three of these model Olympus cameras have very solid image stabilization to help out some. Here's an unmodified, OOC JPEG with minimum noise filtering, etc:


    Olympus E-M1 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5 ED
    ISO 3200 @ f/3.5 @ 1/30 sec
    -
    Click image above to download full-resolution, unmodified JPEG out of camera...

    I have the E-M1 and E-PL7 now. Frankly, I find their capabilities and performance so good that I wonder sometimes why I bought the Sony. (Well, not really: I bought the Sony expressly as a body to use my beloved Leica R lenses with... ;-)

    Given your needs, I don't think you can get a better lightweight, fast compact than the Olympus E-PL7. That's why I bought one! Even compared to the E-M1, it's small and light with the right lens on it.

    G

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    Bob the post sounds condescending in a way...

    Truly not meant to be condescending but perhaps an expression of my fatigue with the quest for the new new thing that is so pervasive these days ... and your picture shows that your eye for exposure, composition and timing is perfect...no need to change your kit as it may not get much better than that.

    I assume that the disruptive advances in technology will be leveraged by the manufacturers to shuck a lot of half baked cameras ... seems like every generation has a new new better AF that in reality is not that much improved over that of the DSLR. Most of the traffic on this site is focused on what is wrong with what we have and hopes for what we think we need...

    Hard to beat an OVF for capturing the moment ... may explain you keeper rate with the 850 ... a very beautiful viewfinder.


    Bob
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Since you are clearly into trying anything, why not wait for the new Canon, the 5Ds?

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    I think you have been through too many cameras to find technical solutions for probelms best solved creatively and with experience. That is a hell of a lot of cameras to get your head around in a short time.... and distract you from learning to use them well. Unfortunately one camera cannot do everything and you may be better breaking down your needs into two:

    1. The monster that will nail focus beautifully indoors and around the home/garden, but which you don't want to lug around. This is DSLR territory and if you want good tracking AF and low light, you are in D750/5D III land at a minimum. Possible Sony A77II
    2. The one you carry around that you feel inclined to pick up and take everywhere, but where tracking AF is not so perfect. A compact, or compact system camera well used and accessible is far better than a powerhouse. You don't need more than 16MP, so I'd say M43 is the way to go there. GM-1, GM-5, new OMD EM5.... The GM1 is especially good value since the GM-5 came out and I know I love mine. Ricoh GR with snap focus, but that 28mm will be limiting, right? No, no it won't.

    There is no camera that is small, portable and has great tracking AF in low light.

    I would strongly recommend you stay away from any of the high MP monsters. For shots of kids etc, there is no point.

    Whatever you do, make the best call you can then stick with it. You will be losing more photos through chopping and changing than you will ever gain from finding the magic bullet (which will forever be elusive in any case).

    Bottom line: there are no camera/technical obstacles standing between you and beautiful photos of your children. None Just look at the work of some of the best child photographers out there. They make their gear work; from Leica M6 to 5D III to M43. I recommend you spend a lot of time looking at top candid child photography and see what they are doing and using. You will be surprised at what you don't need and where the solutions lie.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Since you are clearly into trying anything, why not wait for the new Canon, the 5Ds?
    I think it will be cost prohibitive for me. that's number 1 reason. I don't expect it to cost less that $5K and maybe much more.


    Number 2 reason is that you probably did not read my post carefully about what I shoot. Anyone who had shot extensively with D800/D810 and A7r knows that for these 36mp bodies, to shoot handheld, the techniques must be precise and one needs to keep their shutter speed at 1/2FL to get any success with sharp photos. Otherwise the problem with shake is enormous and Canon does not have IBIS in their DSLRS. Now change it to 50MP body. To get sharp photos handheld on that camera, I would have to shoot what, 1/3 to 1/4FL???? I am not a landscape/tripod shooter.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    [QUOTE=turtle;623858]I think you have been through too many cameras to find technical solutions for probelms best solved creatively and with experience. That is a hell of a lot of cameras to get your head around in a short time.... and distract you from learning to use them well. Unfortunately one camera cannot do everything and you may be better breaking down your needs into two:
    /QUOTE]

    Well its not like I change cameras every month. I've shot for 2 years with Nikon D700. I've shot for 2 years and over 20,000 shots with Canon 5DM3. I think I've shot close to 18,000 with Olympus EM5 and probably about 15,000 with Fuji XT1. A7r - over 10,000 easily. So it is not that short of a time frame, and I gave each camera a thorough test. For example, I took Sony A7 and Fuji XT1 on one vacation where I shot these two cameras side-by-side at every possible lighting condition, in every weather, from beach to dark night clubs, and I had a good idea what each camera is and isn't capable of. I did the same with Sony A7r and Fuji XE2 during another vacation. Of course when I went with my wife without a child it was different because she can stand still and pose:



    I did have Panasonic GM1 for brief time and I liked most things about it, but I can't use cameras with no viewfinders I live in Sunny California, and I just must have a viewfinder of some sort. I tried several cameras that did not have viewfinders and could not deal with the issue.

    As for tracking in low light, I don't think tracking is my main issue. In fact most of the recent mirrorless cameras like Oly EM1, Fuji XT1, Sony A6000 they track very good. The issue is not tracking, the issue is the speed of acquisition in low light and how accurate the acquisition is. I think.
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    How's about Leica M? More than most, it relies on the skill of the photographer, and while it can be a pain at times, it also rewards. f/8, preset the focus of your lens, get a feel for what's going to be acceptably sharp and what's not (the distance scale and depth of field indicators engraved on the lens barrels are incredibly useful), and practice, practice, practice!

    The fastest M models of all are the film cameras because they never "sleep", but the digital ones are okay: The screen blanks out after awhile to save power, but the camera can be left powered up for hours, and I'd recommend leaving it powered on with lens uncapped until you're really done shooting.
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    How's about Leica M? More than most, it relies on the skill of the photographer, and while it can be a pain at times, it also rewards. f/8, preset the focus of your lens, get a feel for what's going to be acceptably sharp and what's not (the distance scale and depth of field indicators engraved on the lens barrels are incredibly useful), and practice, practice, practice!

    The fastest M models of all are the film cameras because they never "sleep", but the digital ones are okay: The screen blanks out after awhile to save power, but the camera can be left powered up for hours, and I'd recommend leaving it powered on with lens uncapped until you're really done shooting.
    Never even touched a Leica in my life, unfortunately don't know anyone who shoots one one day maybe

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Reading this thread through again, and looking at your photos, I agree with the notion that you need two cameras: small, light, and portable with decent responsiveness for when you don't want to carry a heavyweight, alongside of which you have the heavyweight with outstanding follow-focus capability for when that's needed.

    But. You can't have both with you all the time. You need a third thing: you need to either adjust your expectations for the situation at hand and exploit whichever camera is with you to the best of its abilities. Or you need to accept you need to carry the heavyweight that can do it all all of the time.

    I see so many people (including myself, BTW) buying one camera after another looking for the camera that does the job they want. All the time I know that what I really need to do is adjust my expectations, accept what the particular gear I am using does, and exploit it to its potential while avoiding its fallibilities. In that direction lies my creativity and exceptional photographs; in the other direction lies the ever ballooning equipment closet of unappreciated gear.

    I've learned to do this somewhat. I have all the equipment I need, and then some. I keep trying to make my expectations make sense.. :-)

    G
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    Never even touched a Leica in my life, unfortunately don't know anyone who shoots one one day maybe
    Great shots. Of course, Leica M are all manual focus.
    But rangefinder focusing is hard to beat for manual focusing I find.
    BTW, I think there is a Leica boutique store in LA.

    Your 5D3 is a great tool for the kid shot.
    I am afraid mirrorless isn't quite there yet.
    I wonder though how the 12 MP A7S would do for you?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    In short I'd try a A77II and a A7s. Lowlight seems to be your biggest headache and the A7s does that better than any other A7 camera I've tried or own. The A77II is said to track very well and it could be great for outdoors and when you need more resolution. The A77II is also sort of small for a DSLR plus you already have compatible lenses.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    A77II is one of the best AFC on the market.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Great shots. Of course, Leica M are all manual focus.

    Your 5D3 is a great tool for the kid shot.
    funny thing that if you look at EXIF, Canon 6D was used for that kid shot above, not 5DM3, and center point, 6D is a DSLR with inferior AF going back to Canon 40D.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    In short I'd try a A77II and a A7s. Lowlight seems to be your biggest headache and the A7s does that better than any other A7 camera I've tried or own. The A77II is said to track very well and it could be great for outdoors and when you need more resolution. The A77II is also sort of small for a DSLR plus you already have compatible lenses.
    Yep, I might have to consider trying both of these cameras. Would you say A7s speed of acquisition in Low light is generally fast???

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    Yep, I might have to consider trying both of these cameras. Would you say A7s speed of acquisition in Low light is generally fast???
    I own the A77II and A7R. The A7s AF is faster than both and very accurate in low light even when using the f/4 zooms. I don't own one only because 12MP is simply too limiting for me but was allowed to test the AF in the stock room at a local store. If they can get the A7sII in the 16-20 megapixel range with similar performance then it'll be my backup body.
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I own the A77II and A7R. The A7s AF is faster than both and very accurate in low light even when using the f/4 zooms. I don't own one only because 12MP is simply too limiting for me but was allowed to test the AF in the stock room at a local store. If they can get the A7sII in the 16-20 megapixel range with similar performance then it'll be my backup body.
    Wow, this is a very important information for me. Thank u!

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Have you tried the Leica T? If it does not work as well, atleast you would have used a sleek looking one with a monobody.
    Not for state of the art autofocus Vivek . . . and that's ME saying this!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    The A7s supposedly has the fastest low light AF of any mirrorless. You can watch some of the tests on youtube. It's not so great in good light, and it shoots low fps, but you have the A6000 for that. Just do a search for A7s vs GH4 On youtube.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    A77II is one of the best AFC on the market.
    If you haven't tried one . .. I'd trust Guy on this - it sounds like the best option. I thought the AF on the A7s was fine . . . but not stellar - the E-M1 is really fast, but the tracking isn't that great.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    Wow, this is a very important information for me. Thank u!
    I should caveat that with the fact that I am not a "machine gun" type of shooter. I'm a single shot shooter and use manual focus most of the time... Even when AF is available.

    As far as locking on accurately in low light between near, medium, and far objects in lower light randomly the A7s did that well.
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Given your needs, as stated in your original post,
    and with the current cam options available in the
    marketplace; imho you should:

    Get a Dslr.
    All other offerings entail a compromise.

    But I never compromised in the joy of recording my kids
    grow up.

    Sure not all images are perfectly focused or superbly
    exposed or composed.

    But when I look at them now, 25 years later, my memories of those moments
    are the best composed, lighted and focused images I made.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Interesting discussion.

    I am a father of two sons, now 31 and 25. I can't recall the last time I looked at any of the photographs I took obsessively when they were growing up (all on film of course and therefore in photograph albums stacked neatly on shelves).

    Maybe their wives will want to look through them at some point, or possibly their children.

    Interestingly, I get a lot of requests from friends and family to take the odd photograph of their children. One or two good photographs seems to be the requirement. My sister actually has those photographs in a photo frame on her wall, which also says something about the actual volume of photography the average non-photographer wants.

    Am I a bad person or does it put the whole issue under discussion into perspective?

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB

    PS I get a lot of good keepers from street photographs using manual lenses on my A7/r/s - I'd try that route before more or faster AF cameras.
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    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Not for state of the art autofocus Vivek . . . and that's ME saying this!
    Surely, the AF is lot faster than a Leica SL2 + 50/2 Summicron? All my photos of my son (started walking when he was ~10 months old) were on film and manually focused (though good AF cameras and lenses were available 13 years ago).

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Interesting discussion.

    I am a father of two sons, now 31 and 25. I can't recall the last time I looked at any of the photographs I took obsessively when they were growing up (all on film of course and therefore in photograph albums stacked neatly on shelves).

    Maybe their wives will want to look through them at some point, or possibly their children.

    Interestingly, I get a lot of requests from friends and family to take the odd photograph of their children. One or two good photographs seems to be the requirement. My sister actually has those photographs in a photo frame on her wall, which also says something about the actual volume of photography the average non-photographer wants.

    Am I a bad person or does it put the whole issue under discussion into perspective?

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB

    PS I get a lot of good keepers from street photographs using manual lenses on my A7/r/s - I'd try that route before more or faster AF cameras.
    Fully agree with you!

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Surely, the AF is lot faster than a Leica SL2 + 50/2 Summicron? All my photos of my son (started walking when he was ~10 months old) were on film and manually focused (though good AF cameras and lenses were available 13 years ago).
    All of my photographs until about 15 years ago were taken with manual focus cameras. About 60-70% of my photographs today are also. I never had any difficulty getting focus right and getting a large majority of in-focus good shots until I went to AF systems.

    I find AF useful, but not a panacea. I use it when it's useful. ;-)

    G

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
    funny thing that if you look at EXIF, Canon 6D was used for that kid shot above, not 5DM3, and center point, 6D is a DSLR with inferior AF going back to Canon 40D.
    I own a Canon 6D and it is very good for AF in low light and really low light. At least when used with SAF on the center point and reframing using your wrist. read the DPreview review. They compared it with the 5DM3 if I remember. Of course it isn't on parr with the other heavier FF Canon bodies when it comes to tracking, but the acquisition time in low light is really good. Other advantage, that body weight only 770gr. Less than the Nikon 610 and ot much more than the A7II. Put on the 40mm F2.8 pancake or other light primes and you can even use it when you are outdoor, away from home.

    Still it seems that you need two cameras, like some already said. But for a light ICL. I'd rather look for an MFT camera : with an A7 serie, you gain weight on the body, but much less so with the lenses.

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    I have a 2 and 5 yr old and have been thru a bunch of cams after leaving a 5D2 I shot with for 3 yrs and started churning cameras. If AF acquisition speed in low light is your primary concern then one of the m4/3 cameras with -4EV AF is a great option. Tracking sucks but single AF is so good you can get a lot of keepers. That is my recommendation currently having A7ii, A7s, GH4, EM1 and GM5 and X100T and having dived back into dslrs for a bit with a d800.

    a7s is awesome for kid shooting based on ability to maintain high shutter speeds but AF acquisition speed isn't on par with m4/3. Just today I took some pics of my moving 2 yr old with the FE 35/2.8 (quick to focus) in single shot AFS and when I looked closely they were out of focus and noted that my GH4 would have nailed it.

    I remain tempted by the smaller D750 with smaller primes as a stopgap measure until AF performance converges but I don't need more options on what to take each day.
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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by darrellc View Post
    I have a 2 and 5 yr old and have been thru a bunch of cams after leaving a 5D2 I shot with for 3 yrs and started churning cameras. If AF acquisition speed in low light is your primary concern then one of the m4/3 cameras with -4EV AF is a great option. Tracking sucks but single AF is so good you can get a lot of keepers. That is my recommendation currently having A7ii, A7s, GH4, EM1 and GM5 and X100T and having dived back into dslrs for a bit with a d800.

    a7s is awesome for kid shooting based on ability to maintain high shutter speeds but AF acquisition speed isn't on par with m4/3. Just today I took some pics of my moving 2 yr old with the FE 35/2.8 (quick to focus) in single shot AFS and when I looked closely they were out of focus and noted that my GH4 would have nailed it.

    I remain tempted by the smaller D750 with smaller primes as a stopgap measure until AF performance converges but I don't need more options on what to take each day.
    OP here. Well I just pulled a trigger on a used a77m2 which will come to me in couple days. I know it is EV-2 vs Ev-4 on latest Panasonic m43 but some ev-2 are actually very good. For example canon 5dm3 is ev-2 and that camera focused for me in any light fast and I never had issues with focus just nailed shot after shot. Let's see if the Sony a77ii is up to the task....

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    Re: what sony to get next? or non-sony?

    My oddball choice is a Fuji instax wide
    I have the 200, and its actually really good, and af isn't a issue as its close or far
    onboard flash works way better than you would think

    And its magic, that helps with kids

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