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Thread: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

  1. #51
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I owned the Zeiss 1.4/35 ZF.2 lens for my D800E. Even on this camera, which is remarkably bigger than the A7 series cameras this lens was just huge and heavy.

    The new 1.4/35 FE lens seems to be at least same size and weight, if not a tad bigger ..... for my taste this is too huge and kills almost all advantages of a small mirrorless body.

    Same is BTW true for the new 2.8/90 Macro, which is huge, Huge,....

    Not sure who is responsible at Sony for these designs and developments, cannot think of huge success here, but who knows .....
    +1. I own a Leica M9, a Sony A7s and Fuji X-T1/X-Pro1.

    When looking at the latest offerings from Sony and Fuji I am more inclined to invest in additional Leica glass than in Sony or Fuji glass.

    For me personally the Fuji 56mm (405g) is about as far as I want to go with a mirrorless body. The 650 grams of the Sony 35mm/f1.4 is too much.

    Obviously, everybody's mileage will differ.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    Obviously, everybody's mileage will differ.
    Yeah, there's the rub and the challenge for a new platform.

    Everyone has different needs - enthusiasts, pros, travel, action, landscape, street, etc.

    I just can't find it in me to be too critical of what Sony is doing - not because I am a fanboy but because I think it is a waste of time being critical of something that doesn't meet my ideal when it may well suite someone else perfectly.

    If anything, it seems like Sony is offering a fairly wide range of options within the still young (and small) lineup.

    There really shouldn't be any complaints about the 35mm focal length as it is an embarrassment of riches on the A7 platform - given how early in development we are:

    Zeiss FE 35/1.4 (AF)
    Loxia 35/2 (MF)
    Zeiss FE 35/2.8 (AF)

    Add to that adapted M-mount from Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander...
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    Zeiss FE 35/1.4 (AF)
    Loxia 35/2 (MF)
    Zeiss FE 35/2.8 (AF)

    Add to that adapted M-mount from Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander...
    Nothing about Sony, eh?

    Zeiis have no clue what an "advanced aspherical", as claimed by Sony (in some of their Zeiis labelled lenses) is!

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I'm still waiting for Sony to wake up to the need to produce optically stellar compact and slow lenses for landscape shooters. They will be able to provide excellent performance for a lower price and ensure that the small size of the A7 etc is sustained via appropriate lens options. All I am seeing is increasingly large lenses, or in the case of the 28mm f2, one that may not quite convince.

    Personally, I would like to see Sony take the approach of Leica (and Canon with the new 11-24mm f4) and produce f4 (ish) lenses (primes in this case).

    18mm and 24mm would be the 'must haves', or 16, 21,28.
    They have made this goal much harder than it needs to be with the thick CG over their sensors. There are so many versions of the A7, make a "film glass special" with a .7mm cover glass, move the sensor forward so AF works right, and "you are in business" with all M and LTM glass. The "buzz" aka free advertising alone would be worth doing it.

    Kolarivision has proved this can be easily done aftermarket for 400 a copy, although they are more like 1mm thickness.

    Supposedly we will see a nex-5 sized FF body soon. That camera with a thin CG would be a climber's dream.

    This is a real market niche, which is crying to be addressed, as the M bodies are too big and heavy also (yes I love my M9), while the old M6 is so nice and even smaller would be better----and doable today.

    Eventually somebody will address the opportunity.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    T making a "film glass special" with a .7mm cover glass, move the sensor forward so AF works right, and "you are in business" with all M and LTM glass.

    Kolarivision has proved this can be easily done aftermarket for 400 a copy, although they are more like 1mm thickness.
    The Sensors have a 0.5mm thick (clear) cover glass already(hermetically sealed). What you have from Kolari is ~1.5mm total (as opposed to the 2.5mm of the stock).

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Tre, The point is Sony did not make the 35/2 as you said. No.

    Of course, I am not buying the lens. I suppose I can't say anything about it size because you are buying it?

    Don't forget that these are the same guys who have been churning out crap year after year since the NEX-5 with a plastic mount. It took them many years since NEX-5 to change that habit.
    No you're free to say whatever about you want about it buddy. I won't try to stop you.

    On another level though you have to give credit where credit is due. It's not like they're still churning out multiple versions of the same 18-2XX superzooms or putting out the same 55-2XX in multiple colors and calling it a new lens anymore. They're putting out premium quality lenses and while I have no use for all of them (and some of them I downright don't like personally) I'm happy they are at least filling the desires of people.

    In about 18 months they and their 3rd party vendors announced/released 20 lenses in FE mount. That's progress compared to what they were doing within the first 3 years of E-mount for APS-C sensors. Even if all of the lenses we want aren't out yet or in production you have to like the support and effort they're throwing out there.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Apparently, the 35/2.8 was made by Tamron for Sony and they slapped the Zeiss tag on it to make it look good. I think less and less of this "Zeiss". They do not seem to make any lenses anymore just rent out their name for lenses made by others.
    That's a pretty heady accusation/condemnation. I doubt many will agree with you. Why do you think Tamron manufactured the 35/2.8?
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    That's a pretty heady accusation/condemnation. I doubt many will agree with you. Why do you think Tamron manufactured the 35/2.8?
    In fairness to Tamron they seem to be taking a Sigma Art approach lately and getting serious about premium lenses. There 15-30/2.8 looks pretty amazing for resolution in most of the shots I've seen.

    I hadn't heard that rumor either though regarding the Zeiss 35/2.8. Even if Zeiss isn't manufacturing the lenses I'm sure they are still designing their branded lenses to be outsourced for manufacturing. I'm sure they did that with some of their Hasselblad lenses in the past too. It's really not that big of a deal if it performs. TheZeiss designed and Cosina manufactured ZM50/2 Planar was full of optical quality. Some people developed issues with focus wobble but I never experienced it with my copy that's now 7 years old.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    That's a pretty heady accusation/condemnation. I doubt many will agree with you. Why do you think Tamron manufactured the 35/2.8?
    I have seen that the sel50f18 (aps-c version) leads to tamron patents. There is also the tamron 18-200 e mount lens that was rebadged as a sony. With the 18-200 there is a pic somewhere of a sony lens with a tamron front plate. I've read rumors about the sel35f18 (aps-c version again) being a tamron but seen no evidence of this. I have not seen about the Zeiss fe 35 being a tamron design ever before.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    That's a pretty heady accusation/condemnation. I doubt many will agree with you. Why do you think Tamron manufactured the 35/2.8?
    I picked up a rumor floating around and said "apparently". If you know for sure if Zeiis do anything for Sony/Zeiss branded lenses, feel free to post any evidence. I would like to know other than just the label that is slapped on by Sony.

    We know for sure that the Loxias, Touits and Otii are made in Japan with Zeiss not owning any manufacturing facilities there.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    I kind of agree with the sentiment that the Zeiss brand has been sold too far and wide. While the build quality of Sony's Zeiss lenses appears more high-end than their G lenses or standard lenses, I'm not so sure the optical quality is necessarily any better. There are plenty of examples of "meh" Zeiss lenses like the 24-70/4 and plenty of excellent non-Zeiss optics like the SEL50F18. In my mind, a Zeiss branding suggests more about build and materials than optics.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    I guess 35mm is a Tamron design comes from this:
    Xitek - FE 35mm F2.8 ZA- designed by TAMRON

    Sony Tamron 35mm F2.8 Lens Patent Publication - Well, that is Sonnar T * FE 35mm F2.8 ZA. Currently, E-mount lens 10-18, macro 30, 50 / 1.8,18-200LE are designed by Tamron or Tamron/Sony co-design.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Sony's big 'problem' with lenses is that every user group from every other platform under the sun knows what they should do, and all of us have no reluctance in telling Sony what we think - down to full specifications, weight, size and flavor. Sony very likely know their market very well and set priorities accordingly. After all, they developed the a7 system in the first place, and the above simply indicates how much more appealing these cameras are than what the opposition is offering.

    What has Canon or Nikon done lately that is not just another 1-2% on top of what they had already? They just seem to make the same camera and stick a new number on the front of it. They are victims of their own market success, and cannot make any serious changes to their cameras for fear of upsetting the base, which seems made up of the most conservative people, rather intent on keeping the future at bay. Sony are very clear that they welcome competition, they know it is the essence of capitalism. Competition improves the breed. C/N are stuck in an evolutionary cul-de-sac.

    Ask yourself this: what would the camera market look like without Sony? No sensors for Nikon, no D800/D600, no FF mirrorless, no NEX, no RX series, no RX1, the mirrorless segment still dominated by small sensors in small expensive and quaint attractive bling bodies. Leica M users still complaining about the pricy M bodies. In terms of innovation, market impact and resourcefulness, Sony owns the past 2-3 years.

    Full frame would still equal very large, heavy, complex and expensive DSLRs with lens ranges that are as out of date as they are extensive. Made by companies making that exact same thing for the past 40 years. No thanks, I'll take the present situation over that dystopia.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I picked up a rumor floating around and said "apparently". If you know for sure if Zeiis do anything for Sony/Zeiss branded lenses, feel free to post any evidence. I would like to know other than just the label that is slapped on by Sony.

    We know for sure that the Loxias, Touits and Otii are made in Japan with Zeiss not owning any manufacturing facilities there.
    Here's an interview of FE 55/1.8 lens designer(s), it sheds some light into Zeiss involvement in "Sony Zeiss" badged lens development process. Sounds like mostly QA/inspiration stuff from Zeiss.

    https://translate.google.com/transla...tml&edit-text=

    Personally I do not care who made designed/made some lens, only performance matters. Is an Apple iPhone actually Samsung or Foxconn if there is a pile of parts from Samsung (at least used to be) and it is made by Foxconn?
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    All I care about is lens build and performance. Names mean very little to me. If Zeiss is designing these and even if built in Japan under another name than I'm totally fine with that. Apple itself does not build iPhones , it not any different. Many companies don't actually build there sensors for instance. Pentax, Phase, Leaf and others are using sensors built in a Sony factory, that does not mean they don't have there own design and specs built into it. They do Sony is just fabricating what they want in each brand.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    All I can say with respect to Zeiss branded Sony lenses, is if Tamron is responsible for the 1ZA 35 1.8 then I recommend that Sony get Tamron to make all their lenses, 'cause that one's a honey!

    (Sorry for the typo (see bold face above). I was trying to type ZA 135 F1.8 but sometimes I don't pay attention)
    Last edited by jfirneno; 6th March 2015 at 10:46. Reason: typo
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    My understanding is that till now the FE35/2.8 is the highest performing 35 for the A7 series in the view of many.

    The Biogon rebuild had been a let down for quite a few. It's a shadow of the ZM35/2 on M bodies.

    The real question: if tamron can build small good lenses for the A7 series, where are the rest of them? They should have built everyone a good 12, 20 and 28 while they were at it. LOL
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    All I can say with respect to Zeiss branded Sony lenses, is if Tamron is responsible for the 1ZA 35 1.8 then I recommend that Sony get Tamron to make all their lenses, 'cause that one's a honey!
    I agree. Having the blue tag is a drag on my wallet. It may be agreeable with the others. That is fine.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    One should of course require an invoice with all items specified when buying lenses, like:

    Tamron 35mm f/2.8: $498.00
    Blue sticker with famous German name: $300.00

    Total: $798

    Olympus did something similar with the great 75mm f/1.8. It's a Sigma patent if I remember correctly. All this obviously doesn't retract from the quality of the lens, but I'm quite sure Sony adds a little extra to the price when attaching the Zeiss label.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Well, yeah, if the lens was indeed built by Tamron, and the FE35 2.8 was identical in every aspect.

    Thus far, that is only a fantasy, supported by "read somewhere that other Sony lenses were built by xxx." Are we really taking this "Zeiss bashing" to such absurd levels?

    The same thing happened to Nikon several years ago, and probably still occurs. Somewhere a rumor is generated, gets repeated and suddenly becomes fact.

    Mind you, I am not slamming Tamron, and agree they make premium lenses. I also agree that adding the blue label adds to the cost, but for some this -real, quantifiable- quality is worth the premium. If it's not, then don't click "buy".
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    Well, yeah, if the lens was indeed built by Tamron, and the FE35 2.8 was identical in every aspect.

    Thus far, that is only a fantasy, supported by "read somewhere that other Sony lenses were built by xxx." Are we really taking this "Zeiss bashing" to such absurd levels?

    The same thing happened to Nikon several years ago, and probably still occurs. Somewhere a rumor is generated, gets repeated and suddenly becomes fact.

    Mind you, I am not slamming Tamron, and agree they make premium lenses. I also agree that adding the blue label adds to the cost, but for some this -real, quantifiable- quality is worth the premium. If it's not, then don't click "buy".
    Sound advice for those who may be fooled by the Zeiss sticker!

    I agree that it is the wallet speaking and not the XXX number of posts that will determine the scope of these "Zeiss" lenses.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    Well, yeah, if the lens was indeed built by Tamron, and the FE35 2.8 was identical in every aspect.

    Thus far, that is only a fantasy, supported by "read somewhere that other Sony lenses were built by xxx." Are we really taking this "Zeiss bashing" to such absurd levels?

    The same thing happened to Nikon several years ago, and probably still occurs. Somewhere a rumor is generated, gets repeated and suddenly becomes fact.

    Mind you, I am not slamming Tamron, and agree they make premium lenses. I also agree that adding the blue label adds to the cost, but for some this -real, quantifiable- quality is worth the premium. If it's not, then don't click "buy".
    Who builds the lenses is irrelevant. Most Zeiss SLR lenses are built by others than Zeiss anyway, like Cosina. Who designed it is very interesting, since "Designed by Zeiss" tends to imply certain qualities. If the lens is neither designed nor built by Zeiss, one can certainly question what the label is doing there. It certainly dilutes their image.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Who builds the lenses is irrelevant. Most Zeiss SLR lenses are built by others than Zeiss anyway, like Cosina. Who designed it is very interesting, since "Designed by Zeiss" tends to imply certain qualities. If the lens is neither designed nor built by Zeiss, one can certainly question what the label is doing there. It certainly dilutes their image.
    Well, I agree with you there - who actually builds the lens is irrelevant. It's already been mentioned that Apple doesn't build their iPhones. But does anyone think that it isn't still Apple's iPhone?

    However, let's dispel the rumor that Zeiss involvement with the FE35 2.8 (or any other lens) begins and ends with the blue label. Honestly, that's an unsupported outrageous claim. However, it seems that you have already made up your mind, lack of evidence notwithstanding. Guilty as charged, sentenced to a "diluted image".

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Who builds the lenses is irrelevant. Most Zeiss SLR lenses are built by others than Zeiss anyway, like Cosina. Who designed it is very interesting, since "Designed by Zeiss" tends to imply certain qualities. If the lens is neither designed nor built by Zeiss, one can certainly question what the label is doing there. It certainly dilutes their image.
    Jorgen:
    Sony's use of the Zeiss label for some of their lenses is a situation that has existed for about a decade. If you are interested Zeiss has a page that lists the ZA lenses for both the a mount and e mount lenses. The text states that Zeiss provides the auditing of quality control. I would say that they also would be interested in the overall "quality" of the design in as much as it reflects on their brand. Overall I would say that the ZA lenses are a step above the typical Sony lenses (although some of the older "G" lenses from Minolta were very good). I think at least two of the lenses (the a-mount 135 f1.8 and the e-mount 55 1.8) are superb and a couple have been mediocre. I would say that leaves them on par with what Zeiss currently produces under their own name. Whether they possess "zeissness" I would leave to connoisseurs who can define such things. One difference that I would note is that up till now Zeiss manual focus lenses tend to be heavier and stronger than autofocus ZA lenses. But the recent Touits have been maybe a little less "zeisslike" in that area and maybe that is because autofocus lenses by definition are a little more electronic than the classic Zeiss lenses of yesteryear. Either way, I think the future will see Zeiss influenced by its partnership with Sony as well as any "zeissness" rubbing off on Sony.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    Jorgen:
    Sony's use of the Zeiss label for some of their lenses is a situation that has existed for about a decade. If you are interested Zeiss has a page that lists the ZA lenses for both the a mount and e mount lenses. The text states that Zeiss provides the auditing of quality control. I would say that they also would be interested in the overall "quality" of the design in as much as it reflects on their brand. Overall I would say that the ZA lenses are a step above the typical Sony lenses (although some of the older "G" lenses from Minolta were very good). I think at least two of the lenses (the a-mount 135 f1.8 and the e-mount 55 1.8) are superb and a couple have been mediocre. I would say that leaves them on par with what Zeiss currently produces under their own name. Whether they possess "zeissness" I would leave to connoisseurs who can define such things. One difference that I would note is that up till now Zeiss manual focus lenses tend to be heavier and stronger than autofocus ZA lenses. But the recent Touits have been maybe a little less "zeisslike" in that area and maybe that is because autofocus lenses by definition are a little more electronic than the classic Zeiss lenses of yesteryear. Either way, I think the future will see Zeiss influenced by its partnership with Sony as well as any "zeissness" rubbing off on Sony.
    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but if Zeiss allows their logo to be used on lenses where their only involvement is "auditing of quality control", they are diluting their brand. I believe the Zeiss/Sony relationship is much older than a decade btw.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Especially when the quality control of said lenses is the worst I have, in my extensive personal history of buying lenses, ever encountered.

    They are committing brand suicide IMHO. I know that for me, I will not be able to buy a Zeiss lens without thinking, 'Oh goodness, please, please, please may this one not be optically screwy'. It did not cross my mind with the ZMs. I have five and all are spot on. It has taken FIVE Zeiss FE lenses to put two in my kit bag.

    The 35mm f2.8 FE is optically brilliant (especially with size and weight considered), but only if you get a good one and my impression is that there are more screwy ones than perfect examples. Canon does far better with their consumer optics for goodness sake.

    I don;t care who builds and who brands what, as long as reliability and performance is in keeping with the price tag!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but if Zeiss allows their logo to be used on lenses where their only involvement is "auditing of quality control", they are diluting their brand. I believe the Zeiss/Sony relationship is much older than a decade btw.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but if Zeiss allows their logo to be used on lenses where their only involvement is "auditing of quality control", they are diluting their brand. I believe the Zeiss/Sony relationship is much older than a decade btw.
    But for me the question is where do you get the information that that is all they're doing. It might sound great as a theory, but I can't make out if it's raising FUD, gossip or hard truth.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Pieter, Is anyone from Sony or Zeiss on the record to say that they (Zeiis) have anything to do with these tags (other than the obvious)?

    The patents have no credit to Zeiss. If that isn't evidence enough what is?

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Pieter, Is anyone from Sony or Zeiss on the record to say that they (Zeiis) have anything to do with these tags (other than the obvious)?

    The patents have no credit to Zeiss. If that isn't evidence enough what is?
    I've done enough IP in my life to know that names on patents say absolutely nothing about any future business or licensing arrangement. Obviously everybody can think what he wants, like or dislike Zeiss for what they're doing, but until I see real evidence (and not a combination of gossip, hearsay and Sherlock Holmes style deductions) that all they do is auditing and quality control I'm not believing that statement.

    I'm not saying it isn't true, but just a couple of people on the internet saying it is so is not enough for me.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Im buying the lens regardless who owns the patent but the patent will be in Sonys name as they pay Zeiss to design for them. That includes the patent.

    This is no different than Phase, leaf, Pentax hiring Sony to fabricate there sensors. These companies own the patent, they are buying a service. Just like Sony is buying a design service from Zeiss
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    I guess the ultimate question is still "does it matter." That of course is if you find the optical qualities and performance agreeable. The amount of people that like the 55FE is far great than the ones that don't. The numbers are quite a bit different for the 35/2.8 but I think a lot of that has to deal with expectations of the lens. There are a lot of great 35's so a good one will be scrutinized a lot more if the user is used to great ones.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but if Zeiss allows their logo to be used on lenses where their only involvement is "auditing of quality control", they are diluting their brand. I believe the Zeiss/Sony relationship is much older than a decade btw.
    Sony bought Minolta in 2005. Before that their cooperation would have involved video camcorders. Is that the relationship we are discussing or the ZA lenses?

    First of all aren't you a Nikon/micro 4/3rds kind of guy? Why should you care? The Zeiss lenses available to you are the manual focus classics and Otus lenses. Those should be standard enough to allay your fear of "dilution." Secondly, anyone with any sense knows that each lens design should be evaluated individually. And lastly from what I've heard every brand has its quality problems. Didn't Nikon have a serious quality problem with their D600? Seems like a real brand dilution situation. Better dump them and get an i-phone. Now that's real branding! You'll even get a mouse pad to match.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Im buying the lens regardless who owns the patent but the patent will be in Sonys name as they pay Zeiss to design for them. That includes the patent.

    This is no different than Phase, leaf, Pentax hiring Sony to fabricate there sensors. These companies own the patent, they are buying a service. Just like Sony is buying a design service from Zeiss


    I am going to score this lens also, and while others are making Zeiss/Sony claims and rants, I'll be shooting, as always.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    I am going to score this lens also, and while others are making Zeiss/Sony claims and rants, I'll be shooting, as always.
    Yup mine is already paid for so I'm just waiting on it to come in. I think it's going to be great large size or not.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Folks bought the A7 series mostly for the size advantage is my main guess on it and I did a little as well but my main reason was for me manual focusing and making sure I nail everything was my tipping scale over my Nikon D800e. Okay I got a smaller body but what I did not get was really smaller lenses per say but I also got the best lenses equal to what I was shooting or better, that will never come as a size advantage. You want best and fast you will pay for it both in the wallet and on your back. That's a given even 40 years ago when I started this journey . Things like this have not changed and I really don't have a size issue with any of it. But I can get two bodies in Sony brand far easier than I could with 2 Nikons in a bag. That obviously helps somewhat. After that I'm only after quality of file and look. If I don't feel that need to go back to medium format than that's a big bonus on my wallet. 1600 for a fast lens is dirt cheap compared to 6k per copy. It makes my wife happy. You know the saying happy wife makes a happy life. LOL
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Guy you almost have to find it humorous because the first cries were for a small FF NEX and Sony gave us the RX1 while they were working on the FE system. Then the conversation was where are the fast lenses because f/1.8 and f/2.8 aren't fast enough plus my wide angle M lenses don't work as well. Then it was why are all the zooms f/4? Then it was I don't like focus by wire... give me mechanical focus... wait but I don't want MF lenses. Then it was I want faster lenses but not those because they're too big. Now we've come full circle to I'll just take slow lenses as long as I deem the optics good enough... but I better not suspect or hear you're letting Tamron make them to your specs.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I've done enough IP in my life to know that names on patents say absolutely nothing about any future business or licensing arrangement.
    Pieter, IP isn't a joke. What you are saying is incorrect. I say this because I am very close to the EPO that governs intellectual property (at least here in the EU).

    Use of a trade mark has nothing to do with the design and performance of a product.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Vivek, I agree that a trade mark has nothing to do with the design and performance of a product, but I don't think I have even mentioned trade mark in what I said. I don't think anything I've said is incorrect. I've worked half my career in R&D and IP acquisition and have been closely involved with the IPO as well as other patent offices. On the patent there are always the names of the individuals who made the invention, but the company (or companies) named on there is just the one(s) who's paying for the acquisition and prosecution which is not necessarily the employer of the inventors. Also before, during and after the patent acquisition companies can make deals, sell the IP asset, license it (exclusive or non exclusive), pool it together with other assets etc. etc. The options are almost limitless. So what I have said is 100% correct, the company name on the patent says absolutely nothing about the future business or licensing arrangements.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    Sony bought Minolta in 2005. Before that their cooperation would have involved video camcorders. Is that the relationship we are discussing or the ZA lenses?

    First of all aren't you a Nikon/micro 4/3rds kind of guy? Why should you care? The Zeiss lenses available to you are the manual focus classics and Otus lenses. Those should be standard enough to allay your fear of "dilution." Secondly, anyone with any sense knows that each lens design should be evaluated individually. And lastly from what I've heard every brand has its quality problems. Didn't Nikon have a serious quality problem with their D600? Seems like a real brand dilution situation. Better dump them and get an i-phone. Now that's real branding! You'll even get a mouse pad to match.
    Yes, what they did on the video and p&s side before Minolta is interesting. What kind of business relationship they have also dictates the agreements they have for production, quality control, use of brand name etc. I believe even Kyocera closing down their camera business is relevant to this question. I don't think it's a coincidence that they shut down Contax at the same time as Sony bought Minolta's camera division.

    What cameras I use is irrelevant. I use whatever cameras that are practical for me. The only Zeiss lens I own is the one in my Nokia (which was obviously hand assembled by a German Doktor-Ingenieur ). Industry and trade practices tend to spread. If companies like Zeiss become labels only, others might get similar ideas. I don't see an immediate problem, but the selection of quality camera and lens products hasn't increased lately.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Yes, what they did on the video and p&s side before Minolta is interesting. What kind of business relationship they have also dictates the agreements they have for production, quality control, use of brand name etc. I believe even Kyocera closing down their camera business is relevant to this question. I don't think it's a coincidence that they shut down Contax at the same time as Sony bought Minolta's camera division.

    What cameras I use is irrelevant. I use whatever cameras that are practical for me. The only Zeiss lens I own is the one in my Nokia (which was obviously hand assembled by a German Doktor-Ingenieur ). Industry and trade practices tend to spread. If companies like Zeiss become labels only, others might get similar ideas. I don't see an immediate problem, but the selection of quality camera and lens products hasn't increased lately.
    I'd say the selection of quality cameras has increased dramatically. There simply aren't many bad cameras being made today. You just choose the subjectively best camera for your needs that you can also afford.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Yes, what they did on the video and p&s side before Minolta is interesting. What kind of business relationship they have also dictates the agreements they have for production, quality control, use of brand name etc. I believe even Kyocera closing down their camera business is relevant to this question. I don't think it's a coincidence that they shut down Contax at the same time as Sony bought Minolta's camera division.

    What cameras I use is irrelevant. I use whatever cameras that are practical for me. The only Zeiss lens I own is the one in my Nokia (which was obviously hand assembled by a German Doktor-Ingenieur ). Industry and trade practices tend to spread. If companies like Zeiss become labels only, others might get similar ideas. I don't see an immediate problem, but the selection of quality camera and lens products hasn't increased lately.
    ... the take away here being you don't actually own or have used the lenses you are criticizing, instead relying of on internet forums and reviews that match your pre-dispositions.

    Nothing wrong with that, this is the World Wide Web. But then you make broad, unsupported assumptions that Zeiss does little or nothing except put their labels on lenses and double the price.

    It seems your anti-Sony bias extends to Zeiss. I seriously doubt there are many who think the Zeiss brand has been diluted.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I'd say the selection of quality cameras has increased dramatically. There simply aren't many bad cameras being made today. You just choose the subjectively best camera for your needs that you can also afford.
    It depends, but I'm not going to count

    The positive side is that technology has made it much cheaper to make high quality products, but those last 5% is still hard to achieve, which is clearly shown by the size of current 35mm f/1.4 lenses (just to keep this ever so slightly on topic), Oti (that's plural for Outus, isn't it?) etc. So if Zeiss is a group of Doktor-Ingenieurs in Oberkochen or a gang of venture capitalists based in the Cayman Islands... that may not be terribly important for the image quality anymore.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It depends, but I'm not going to count

    The positive side is that technology has made it much cheaper to make high quality products, but those last 5% is still hard to achieve, which is clearly shown by the size of current 35mm f/1.4 lenses (just to keep this ever so slightly on topic), Oti (that's plural for Outus, isn't it?) etc. So if Zeiss is a group of Doktor-Ingenieurs in Oberkochen or a gang of venture capitalists based in the Cayman Islands... that may not be terribly important for the image quality anymore.
    Are you seriously equating optical quality of the product based on the mass/size!?! Regarding the Otus - whether you feel the size is agreeable or not the product is outstanding and it was the lens that probably started the whole push towards higher resolving lenses for DSLR's. The Sigma Arts offer 95% of the optical performance with the added benefit of AF at 1/5 the price but again they are large.

    This might be the weakest anti-Sony argument you've contrived... this month... I won't make the blanket statement though because the month is still early.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Are you seriously equating optical quality of the product based on the mass/size!?! Regarding the Otus - whether you feel the size is agreeable or not the product is outstanding and it was the lens that probably started the whole push towards higher resolving lenses for DSLR's. The Sigma Arts offer 95% of the optical performance with the added benefit of AF at 1/5 the price but again they are large.

    This might be the weakest anti-Sony argument you've contrived... this month... I won't make the blanket statement though because the month is still early.
    No, I'm not equating optical quality of the product based on the mass/size, but it's apparently the way things are heading. If I should guess, it's done because it's the easiest way to achieve ultimate quality, and everybody except Leica seem to be going in that direction, in spite of camera bodies getting smaller, at least compared to what they were 5-10 years ago. Leica is the living proof that high quality lenses don't need to be large.

    This is not an anti-Sony argument. All high quality, large aperture lenses for the 35mm format (again, except Leica) seem to grow larger, regardless of brand, even those that are only f/1.8, like the new Nikkor primes, 20/28/35/50/85. It's a paradox, since cameras are usable at much higher ISO than before, which means that the market for f/1.4 lenses should be diminishing. Apparently, it's not.

    For me, a complete setup of moderately sized f/2.0 lenses that are sharp across the frame from f/2 to f/11 is much more interesting. The Zeiss ZF/ZE range offers that, as do Leica with the Summicrons. Nikon isn't too far off with the above mentioned primes, although they are a bit larger and with a distinct feel of plastic. They are quite lightweight though.

    Sony could have done something like this too. As soon as they knew that the A7 would become reality, they could have made a phone call to Zeiss, asking them to design FE mount versions with AF of an assortment of ZM lenses, modified to suit the sensor, the mount etc. They could have had something like 15/2.8, 21/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2.0, 50/2.0 and 85/4.0 within months, or at least a year. I can assure you they would have grabbed my attention. But they didn't.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post

    Sony could have done something like this too. As soon as they knew that the A7 would become reality, they could have made a phone call to Zeiss, asking them to design FE mount versions with AF of an assortment of ZM lenses, modified to suit the sensor, the mount etc. They could have had something like 15/2.8, 21/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2.0, 50/2.0 and 85/4.0 within months, or at least a year. I can assure you they would have grabbed my attention. But they didn't.
    But I thought, according to you, that Sony needn't communicate with Zeiss about lens design, etc. They just call them when they need a fresh batch of blue labels.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Here's a link of a hands on with a couple of sample shots.

    Hands On: Zeiss Distagon T* FE 35mm f/1.4 ZA Lens | Popular Photography

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Vivek, I agree that a trade mark has nothing to do with the design and performance of a product, but I don't think I have even mentioned trade mark in what I said. I don't think anything I've said is incorrect. I've worked half my career in R&D and IP acquisition and have been closely involved with the IPO as well as other patent offices. On the patent there are always the names of the individuals who made the invention, but the company (or companies) named on there is just the one(s) who's paying for the acquisition and prosecution which is not necessarily the employer of the inventors. Also before, during and after the patent acquisition companies can make deals, sell the IP asset, license it (exclusive or non exclusive), pool it together with other assets etc. etc. The options are almost limitless. So what I have said is 100% correct, the company name on the patent says absolutely nothing about the future business or licensing arrangements.
    Pieter, This is getting to be argumentative so, let us leave it. If/when we meet in person I can add details .


    On the other stuff posted-


    I do believe that Sony themselves make those Zeiss blue tags and do not order it from Carl Zeiss. I will change my mind if there is evidence to the contrary.

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    I do believe that Sony themselves make those Zeiss blue tags and do not order it from Carl Zeiss. I will change my mind if there is evidence to the contrary.
    Oh bugger... I thought they were handcrafted by German elves

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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    No, I'm not equating optical quality of the product based on the mass/size, but it's apparently the way things are heading. If I should guess, it's done because it's the easiest way to achieve ultimate quality, and everybody except Leica seem to be going in that direction, in spite of camera bodies getting smaller, at least compared to what they were 5-10 years ago. Leica is the living proof that high quality lenses don't need to be large.
    Sony is also living proof that high quality lenses do not have to be large. Take a look at lenscore.org, they test all lenses on same custom-made 200 MP digital back. The score of (rather moderately-prized in comparison to Leica) FE55 and FE 35 beats handily a pile of Leica lenses, there is in fact only 3 or so Leica lenses that rate better than those 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This is not an anti-Sony argument. All high quality, large aperture lenses for the 35mm format (again, except Leica) seem to grow larger, regardless of brand, even those that are only f/1.8, like the new Nikkor primes, 20/28/35/50/85. It's a paradox, since cameras are usable at much higher ISO than before, which means that the market for f/1.4 lenses should be diminishing. Apparently, it's not.
    IMO this is kind of a child of "benchmark age". To get positive reviews etc. lenses need to be ultrasharp and well corrected from wide open even in the corners. This leads to increasing size. As the Zeiss Otus is sometimes referred as "medium format lens that uses FF size sweet spot to get superb performance".

    Big portion of so called high quality Leica small/fast lenses have corner performance that really is nothing to write home about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Sony could have done something like this too. As soon as they knew that the A7 would become reality, they could have made a phone call to Zeiss, asking them to design FE mount versions with AF of an assortment of ZM lenses, modified to suit the sensor, the mount etc. They could have had something like 15/2.8, 21/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2.0, 50/2.0 and 85/4.0 within months, or at least a year. I can assure you they would have grabbed my attention. But they didn't.
    IMO Sony is on this road though the speed could be faster. Zeiss is making Loxias with heavy ZM heritage. The problem is that the 35 and 50 Loxia have quite hard time beating the "Sony Zeiss" offering despite pile of R&D put into them on top of ZM line. Below 35 mm the ZM-heritage only makes things even harder for UWA Loxias to perform well due to increasing ray angle issues.
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    Re: Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

    I don't care who designs/makes the lens as long as the end product matches or better then what Zeiss puts it out there esp with the small sizes. Size is the reason I use mirrorless...

    Here is a interview with the designer of the FE 55mm & 70-200:
    Meet Naoki Miyagawa, father of the best 50 mm of the moment

    and the interview with a Zeiss Master:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=9cnEnRADDLo

    Interesting video and interviewer asked about the best Zeiss lenses other then the Otus and he comes with Zeiss 135mm, 15mm, and 21mm. Nothing about Sony FE lenses esp 55mm which competes with Otus lenses with its smaller size. I am sure he would talk about it if Zeiss designed it...

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