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Thread: A7rII

  1. #1
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    A7rII

    According to SAR the new A7r will be announced very soon and will have
    IBIS just like the A7II.
    I'd assume the ergonomics, mag body, and improved focus speed would
    be a part of the package ?
    If an EFC shutter is part of it we can do backflips.
    I'm gonna guess at the pricing and say around $2500.
    By the way, SAR says production has already started.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    If an EFC shutter is part of it we can do backflips.
    I am too old to do that for any reason, more particularly, for another A7x camera.

    The A7 II came, I am still not moved. I am very very happy about my restraint.

    With a7/7r/7s in use I will look forward to the rumored A9 and not any of these II versions.

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am too old to do that for any reason, more particularly, for another A7x camera.

    The A7 II came, I am still not moved. I am very very happy about my restraint.

    With a7/7r/7s in use I will look forward to the rumored A9 and not any of these II versions.
    I'm sure that one is coming too (A9).
    I doubt it will start off a an IBIS camera but it might.
    If it does it will likely cost at least $3500, if not more.
    Too rich for my blood.

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    Re: A7rII

    Btw they moved ship dates up on the Sony Zeiss 35 1.4 to March 30th here on Amazon. 14 days ahead of plan.

    I said this before they can simply drop a 36mpx or more in the current A7II body and I would be 90 percent all over it as fast as possible . Sure a few extras should not hurt like uncompressed raws which than I would try and do a back flip but in my pool. LOL

    Price guess 2899.00
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Btw they moved ship dates up on the Sony Zeiss 35 1.4 to March 30th here on Amazon. 14 days ahead of plan.

    I said this before they can simply drop a 36mpx or more in the current A7II body and I would be 90 percent all over it as fast as possible . Sure a few extras should not hurt like uncompressed raws which than I would try and do a back flip but in my pool. LOL

    Price guess 2899.00
    I'm thinking about 1000 more than a comparable A7II.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am too old to do that for any reason, more particularly, for another A7x camera.

    The A7 II came, I am still not moved. I am very very happy about my restraint.

    With a7/7r/7s in use I will look forward to the rumored A9 and not any of these II versions.
    I'll skip this one as well. Don't really miss IBIS, although when it is there it is nice to have.

    I do admire you restraint Vivek!
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    Re: A7rII

    I like an A7r-II ... but like an A9r even better.
    First we have to see if and when this A9 is going to materialise and for what mount ...

    My guess for the A7r-II - 2300,00

    All the best.
    Bart ...
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    I'll skip this one as well. Don't really miss IBIS, although when it is there it is nice to have.

    I do admire you restraint Vivek!
    Are you back, Michiel? My FE 28/2 should arrive in a few days.
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    Re: A7rII

    Give me a silent shutter mode and I might bite. But for the most part I don't see this as being much of an upgrade - especially not for the $2500+ it will surely retail for.

    Hopefully, I'll be proven wrong.
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    Re: A7rII

    I'll keep waiting for the a7S II

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    Re: A7rII

    I am rooting for a global shutter (A9?). I am also resigned to the fact that I will be buying stuff from the free market (ie., HK) in the future and not the price fixing mafia here.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am also resigned to the fact that I will be buying stuff from the free market (ie., HK) in the future and not the price fixing mafia here.
    Is paying import duty for that a fact in Holland, or is there still a a chance it passes unnoticed?
    In Belgium these days paying import duty and VAT is a 100% certainty. The tax authorities have delegated the calculation and levy of the total amount to the Postal service for a percentage of the proceeds, so now the Belgian post never forgets to add the charges for you
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Is paying import duty for that a fact in Holland, or is there still a a chance it passes unnoticed?
    In Belgium these days paying import duty and VAT is a 100% certainty. The tax authorities have delegated the calculation and levy of the total amount to the Postal service for a percentage of the proceeds, so now the Belgian post never forgets to add the charges for you
    Please, understand that I am not in a position to have an extensive discussion on this. It is personal.

    (I also boycott those tax dodgers Starbucks and the so called non profit organization IKEA- also a personal decision!)

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    Re: A7rII

    I will wate for the A9II, probably it will be announced at the end of the year

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    Re: A7rII

    If they fix the shutter shock issue and give us uncompressed RAW (how difficult could that be?), I might buy into the Sony system again. That it will have IBIS and better ergonomics seems obvious. But this time I'll wait for the reviews before making a move...

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    Re: A7rII

    "how difficult could that be" for sony- this applies to a whole bunch of things. For example, sony.au sold A7s + kit zoom + an optional adapter of choice for ~ 1200 Euros.

    How difficult can that be for sony in other places to emulate that (even for a short period)?

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I'm thinking about 1000 more than a comparable A7II.
    12MP more for $1000 extra?
    I sure hope not.
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am rooting for a global shutter
    not going to happen, because global shutter will reduce either resolution OR DR OR both... you need silicone estate to store the charge till it will be read out after the end of exposure...
    A7RII + FE55/1.8

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    Re: A7rII

    How about just go back to the old CCD technology. I think it would be easier to implement global shutter using that technology

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    Re: A7rII

    Yes but live view would not be that "live" anymore. I still have a Sony A390. The last of their cameras to have a CCD sensor and also one of those experimental ones with a liveview (unconnected to the sensor) EVF/OVF. This also sports a cludgy fold out LCD.

    It is Sony's task (being the largest sensor maker and all) to crack the problem.

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    Re: A7rII

    hmm, if I am not wrong live view is not affected by the type of sensor. I remember using my Panasonic LX3 which if I am correct was the last model in that series to have a CCD instead of a CMOS. The live view refresh rates and quality was very usable considering it did not have an OVF.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    If they fix the shutter shock issue and give us uncompressed RAW (how difficult could that be?), I might buy into the Sony system again. That it will have IBIS and better ergonomics seems obvious. But this time I'll wait for the reviews before making a move...
    Me Too.
    It wasn't until they produced the camera I wanted (A7ii) that I could really decide that I didn't want it!

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Me Too.
    It wasn't until they produced the camera I wanted (A7ii) that I could really decide that I didn't want it!
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    Re: A7rII

    an uncompressed RAW option would be nice especially for a mark ii but I suspect the compressed RAW algorithm may be hard coded into the image processor. So unless the a7rii comes out with a new image processor, I suspect the same compression algorithm would be used.

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    Re: A7rII

    Well I skipped the A7II, still keep using my A7R, especially with Leica R lenses.
    Which Sony FF E camera would tempt me now? It got to include:

    • No shutter shock,
    • great working IBIS,
    • uncompressed RAW,
    • beating in resolution the high res shot option of my E-M5 Mark II.

    Or may be, it got to have 3 of the 4 items listed above.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    How about just go back to the old CCD technology. I think it would be easier to implement global shutter using that technology
    CMOS sensors w/ global shutter exist and they are being used for ages... in industrial applications where customers really need full global shutter and can live w/ resolution AND/OR dr compromise... as for going back to CCD - no, you still have to store the charge somewhere after the end of exposure if you want true full electronic (no mechanical shielding by shutter blades) global shutter =

    http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/AND9195-D.PDF
    A7RII + FE55/1.8
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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: A7rII

    Check this out :

    (SR4) Sony to announce the new 50 Megapixel camera within weeks. Image quality outperforms the Canon 5ds? | sonyalpharumors

    The new A7RII and A9 both going to be announced soon ?
    I hope I hit lotto.
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    Re: A7rII

    I envisage very aggressive pricing on the A7RII and possible A9. Sony has the mass to be able to lowball the price (compared to Canikon) with the aim of stealing more market share.

    I'd be very surprised if we are not pleasantly surprised with the prices.

    PS... afterthought.... what impact does this rumored A9 have on Canon? Some, I think. Anyone who is using Canon and Sony FE bodies together and who is tempted by the 50Mp 5Ds may well skip another Canon body in favour of the Sony FE. We can be confident any 50mp Sony sensor will perform just like all the other Sony sensors, with truck loads of DR, great colour etc. It is also likely to be no more expensive, even if it is a bells and whistles pro body. Interesting times...

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    Re: A7rII

    OK, you can be the Sony prez.
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Check this out :

    (SR4) Sony to announce the new 50 Megapixel camera within weeks. Image quality outperforms the Canon 5ds? | sonyalpharumors

    The new A7RII and A9 both going to be announced soon ?
    I hope I hit lotto.
    The whirling vortex of (mis?)information that is SAR is a grand and dizzying spectacle. Of course, Sony allows such speculation to thrive by the equally dizzying pace at which they can churn out new camera models. I give credit to Andrea in that he has recently instituted some moderation on his comments section. But I confess this lessens the comedic value of those comments. I've got to say, I don't doubt that Sony could be coming out with both an A7R II and an A9 in the next month or two. But what I really hope is that both products be held up as long as it takes to make them relatively debugged. It's too important to Sony's future to prematurely launch such advanced cameras without a thorough attempt to remove the worst issues. I can't promise I'll buy a 50 mpix camera (boy that's a big file!) but if the 35 mpix has an EFCS I'll almost surely buy it at some point.
    Regards,
    John
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    Re: A7rII

    I hope we can still handhold this 50 MP camera, the shutter needs to be completely damped, otherwise a lot of threads are ahead of us.
    We will need IBIS even more now.
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Are you back, Michiel? My FE 28/2 should arrive in a few days.
    I am almost gone again I need to cut 4 recently chopped oaks in my garden into pieces of 50 cm for next winter.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    It's too important to Sony's future to prematurely launch such advanced cameras without a thorough attempt to remove the worst issues.
    I agree to a point. It may be an advanced sensor but not necessarily an advanced camera.

    To date, IME, the A7s is their most advanced camera despite the dearth of pixels.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I envisage very aggressive pricing on the A7RII and possible A9. Sony has the mass to be able to lowball the price (compared to Canikon) with the aim of stealing more market share.

    I'd be very surprised if we are not pleasantly surprised with the prices.

    PS... afterthought.... what impact does this rumored A9 have on Canon? Some, I think. Anyone who is using Canon and Sony FE bodies together and who is tempted by the 50Mp 5Ds may well skip another Canon body in favour of the Sony FE. We can be confident any 50mp Sony sensor will perform just like all the other Sony sensors, with truck loads of DR, great colour etc. It is also likely to be no more expensive, even if it is a bells and whistles pro body. Interesting times...
    The lower Sony price the new A7/9 bodies, the more the value of the older A7 bodies will decrease, possibly annoying existing customers. When it comes to mass, Sony has an ILC (Interchangeable Lens Camera) market share of 9% (2013, Sony's own figures). Their market share for mirrorless cameras (still less than a third of the total ILC market) was 40% in 2013, which made them the market leader in that segment, but if I remember correctly, that figure fell to less than 30% during 2014, more or less equal to Olympus. Sony is a shareholder at Olympus.

    Sony has to thread very carefully and cannot afford many mistakes in this market. Second hand A7 bodies sell for roughly the same as the 5-7 years old Nikon D700.

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    Re: A7rII

    You're very possibly right; however, I would be surprised if residual value of used bodies features much in their thinking. This secondary market is surely much less important than primary sales and with the camera industry struggling, I would think even more emphasis would be on making new sales. Nikon's used bodies hold better value, but I was under the impression that their business is struggling. Sony on the other hand appears to have sold many more FE bodies that they had imagined possible, precisely because the launch prices were really good for what was on offer. Time will tell of course and I am just speculating without any inside knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The lower Sony price the new A7/9 bodies, the more the value of the older A7 bodies will decrease, possibly annoying existing customers. When it comes to mass, Sony has an ILC (Interchangeable Lens Camera) market share of 9% (2013, Sony's own figures). Their market share for mirrorless cameras (still less than a third of the total ILC market) was 40% in 2013, which made them the market leader in that segment, but if I remember correctly, that figure fell to less than 30% during 2014, more or less equal to Olympus. Sony is a shareholder at Olympus.

    Sony has to thread very carefully and cannot afford many mistakes in this market. Second hand A7 bodies sell for roughly the same as the 5-7 years old Nikon D700.

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    Re: A7rII

    "Sony makes a zillion models". Is that true? Let's look at the data (source dpreview):

    Sony: 2015 YTD - 0, 2014 - 17, 2013 - 20, Total - 37
    Canon: 2015 YTD - 13, 2014 - 16, 2013 - 17, Total - 46
    Nikon: 2015 YTD - 15, 2014 - 18, 2013 - 21, Total - 54

    Yep, Sony is truly spewing models all over the landscape. Sure, they haven't announced the 2015 bodies yet, maybe they'll announce 17 and catch up to Nikon.

    There are more conservative producers:

    Olympus: 2015 YTD - 3, 2014 - 6, 2013 - 11, Total - 20
    Leica: 2015 YTD - 0, 2014 - 4, 2013 - 2, Total - 6 (There are a few Leica models - all the S models since the S2 and special editions - missing, so these numbers are too low)
    Phase One: 2015 YTD - 0, 2014 - 0, 2013 - 0, Total - 0 (when did the DF+ come out?)

    I made no attempt to trim away P&S, or fixed lens. I'm sure constraints exist on the search that will prove any particular point. Still, I confess to surprise at the data, especially given the complete lack of criticism Nikon faces when they are vastly more prolific.

    --Matt
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    Re: A7rII

    Absolutely, but I think the A7II shows that more can be thrown into a camera for the same price (vs Mk I) when they have the volume. The FE mount has been much more successful than they first imagined, but now they know and I would expect them to 'reinforce success'. I hope they they do not hold back too many features however... that old trick of keeping you waiting for the Mk III is tedious, so we shall see! I'm a lot more optimistic for bodies than the popcorn approach to their lens lineup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    I hope we can still handhold this 50 MP camera, the shutter needs to be completely damped, otherwise a lot of threads are ahead of us.
    We will need IBIS even more now.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Still, I confess to surprise at the data, especially given the complete lack of criticism Nikon faces when they are vastly more prolific.

    --Matt
    Why bother when they are not in one's radar? :sleep006:

    (You see nikon users coming and offering advices to Sony. Sony users just ignore nikon and spend the time for anything else)
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    Absolutely, but I think the A7II shows that more can be thrown into a camera for the same price (vs Mk I) when they have the volume. The FE mount has been much more successful than they first imagined, but now they know and I would expect them to 'reinforce success'. I hope they they do not hold back too many features however... that old trick of keeping you waiting for the Mk III is tedious, so we shall see! I'm a lot more optimistic for bodies than the popcorn approach to their lens lineup.
    I have just read your blog entry concerning the popcorn (fun and well seen) approach of Sony and I couldn't agree more.
    Last edited by Annna T; 19th March 2015 at 09:21.
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    Re: A7rII

    I shall wait for the A7 III. It might have games built in or for download.

    Transit times at airports from here can be loong!

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    I hope we can still handhold this 50 MP camera, the shutter needs to be completely damped, otherwise a lot of threads are ahead of us.
    We will need IBIS even more now.
    Michiel:

    I think that gets to the heart of what a 50 megapixel camera is used for. Wouldn't you want a tripod to take full advantage of the detail? So landscape work then. Does anyone know of other types of photos where a 50 megapixel camera is preferable to a 35 megapixel camera? And I'm not playing devil's advocate. It's an actual question.
    Regards,
    John
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    Re: A7rII

    I want 50mp's, 14 stops + DR, EFCS and fully articulated screen. Buying two. No kidding.

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    Re: A7rII

    Well I hope they lay the cards on the table soon. I'd prefer the "Pro" body (if it is in fact coming) but I wouldn't scoff at a refined A7RII (more dampened shutter for those that it bothers, IBIS, possibly improved ergonomics, improved IQ, etc) either. Hell I could just buy this and trade my standard A7 in towards the "Pro" body if it ever comes. I also wouldn't mind built in APS-H and APS-C crop modes as well similar to what the 5Ds cameras are offering to retain 60% and 40% of max resolution respectively as well.
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why bother when they are not in one's radar? :sleep006:

    (You see nikon users coming and offering advices to Sony. Sony users just ignore nikon and spend the time for anything else)
    No, I'm not trying to give Sony advice, and honestly, I don't think it would matter if I did. I'm simply pointing out that it's not very likely that they'll try to lower prices to gain market share. They tried that with the A850 without gaining much, if anything at all. In spite of good products and very competitive prices, Sony is pretty much a non-player in the DSLR market now. The key has to be found elsewhere.

    The question is how they can get more traction in the mirrorless market, instead of losing market shares as they apparently do. Although they don't make money from the second hand market, many are skeptical to invest in a system that loses value fast. The camera market isn't very different from any other capital goods market in that respect.

    I also keep asking myself why on earth they haven't launched two of the most common lenses, a cheap 50mm and a medium fast, reasonably priced 85mm. It's like launching a sports car without a manual gearbox option.

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    Re: A7rII

    I'm hoping for a 50 mpx but I would take a 36mpx updated sensor , give me all what the A7II has and uncompressed raws and I will jump off the wall for it. This makes me want the Zeiss 35 1.4 more and I'm seriously rethinking the 50mm and sell my Mtikon. The 35 FOV is more my look lens so I'll go for a razor in the 50 now. Maybe the 50 ART lens or buy the 55mm again. Keep my 16-35, 85 1.4, Minolta 200. That gives me 3 fast lenses at F2 or better. I rented the dang 24-70 again for this weekend gig. I have rented 4 times now. It's these dang events that make me rent it. Wish this PR stuff was not my bread and butter. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7rII

    Okay I should not say this but screw it. I'm having a really hard time reading the comments over at SAR especially this announcement. I have held my tongue but they really need to get rid of the morons over there.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    No, I'm not trying to give Sony advice, and honestly, I don't think it would matter if I did. I'm simply pointing out that it's not very likely that they'll try to lower prices to gain market share. They tried that with the A850 without gaining much, if anything at all. In spite of good products and very competitive prices, Sony is pretty much a non-player in the DSLR market now. The key has to be found elsewhere.

    The question is how they can get more traction in the mirrorless market, instead of losing market shares as they apparently do. Although they don't make money from the second hand market, many are skeptical to invest in a system that loses value fast. The camera market isn't very different from any other capital goods market in that respect.

    I also keep asking myself why on earth they haven't launched two of the most common lenses, a cheap 50mm and a medium fast, reasonably priced 85mm. It's like launching a sports car without a manual gearbox option.
    It is OT. Another thread, perhaps?
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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    I hope we can still handhold this 50 MP camera, the shutter needs to be completely damped, otherwise a lot of threads are ahead of us.
    We will need IBIS even more now.
    Well, in truth, you mean to get the absolute most resolution delivery out of the sensor. NOT that it will be usable and possibly produce better images than a 24MP or 36MP camera when using the exact same handholding techniques.

    All else created equal (which they aren't, but let's say the sensor is the same in all respects other than MP), you can handhold a 16MP camera, 24MP, 36MP, 50MP and they my or may not produce an image that resolves at the optical limits of the system (lens to sensor, with support from your hands). It is more likely that the 16MP system will be at or closer to the system integration limits than the 50MP image, but that doesn't mean that the 50MP will produce a worse image than the 16MP camera, and it is possible (likely?) that it will produce a better image, but by how much is unclear.

    Also, the 50MP camera is not even 2x the pixel linear resolution of the 16MP, so the limits of resolution are certainly higher, but not so much so that they will produce a difference like 35mm to 4x5 does (in film terms). Clearly, the laws of diminishing returns are fully in force with these cameras.

    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Re: A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay I should not say this but screw it. I'm having a really hard time reading the comments over at SAR especially this announcement. I have held my tongue but they really need to get rid of the morons over there.
    Guy:
    I think they're actually toned down compared to before the recent monitoring changes. Of course it's no GetDPI, but Andrea is doing his best to keep it semi-civilized.
    Regards,
    John
    Sony fanboy, shamelessly shilling for "the man" since 2010.
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    Re: A7rII

    He seems like a good guy. Wish them luck
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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