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Thread: Switching tires

  1. #1
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Switching tires

    Well I'm thinking of changing some things up. I shoot many things but my biggest issue is PR type stuff and AF in low light. Quality is not paramount here but I have rented and owned the 24-70 F4 Sony several times and it simply does not AF well in low light and its pissing me off. I'm thinking for the A7II and this stuff getting a Tamron 24-70 2.8 which I had back in my Nikon days and was a great performer heck even a Sigma 24-70 2.8 is not rated awesome but would work for this stuff which is usually flash at 6.3 grip and grin crap. Hate it but it makes me money. LOL Folks it's all about money here nothing that turns my jets on. I was thinkng Ng of selling my 85 1.4 for it than on the A7r side of the house I can get lenses where Af is meaningless. Still keep my 16-35, 35 and 50 Loxia and the new 90 Macro plus my Minolta 200 would be a really nice creative high MPX a Kit. On the PR side I can still through in the bag the 16-35, Tammy 24-70 as primary and 200mm. I could even throw in the 2 Loxia but bottom line I need a 2.8 AF zoom lens than I cant stop screwing around with this stuff. The ZA Sony 24-70 is not bad either but I'm not willing to spend that kind of money.

    So I'm looking for a trade for the 85 1.4 for a 2.8 zoom or sell the 85 out right. Thoughts on what 2.8 zoom would AF best on these A7 series. Obviously it's going to be a A mount with my LAe4 adapter.
    What's been hurting all along is I been stifled on my high Mpx Kit just to keep the PR kit in tack. I want to seperate this but be able to stretch across the cabinet when needed.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Pardon typos running fast this morning no time to fix
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    I would think that the adapted lenses will focus slower than the native one.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Yes and no the adapter actually works quite well with SSM glass . More my issue is the dang cameras can't see in low light with F4 very well and even AF. It's not so much speed of the AF it's the ability to see to even focus. I get sometimes just a freeze up because it gets lost in the dark
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    Re: Switching tires

    I think the LA-EA4 has the A99 PDAF focusing system in there (sensors and mirror). Pretty good, but probably not as fast/good as the A77II.
    Most probably better in low light then an f4 zoom lens and CDAF.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Exactly and why the 2.8 is needed
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Or you could get a camera system that actually has a good supply of faster AF lenses dedicated to it? (Gee, I think I've complained about this very thing with Sony E before? )

    I know, I know, for you Sony E is the end all system, you've hammered that point every time I bring up any of its warts. But a point I've hammered back is that good AF is a big void with the E system platform.

    You already know *MY* preference for outstanding AF and it aint anything Sony makes. Perhaps you'd be better served with an A mount Sony of some type? At least here with an adapter, the glass would be reasonably usable on your E...
    Jack
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    Re: Switching tires

    The A6000 is possibly the answer as well. Not only is it very fast to AF it may handle lower light levels better to boot. Seriously I may just sell the A7r get a A6000 and just wait it out for the A7r replacement . I could put a 16-50 2.8 on the A6000 which is a 24-70 and its a decent lens too. I'm in mental debate and right now just thinking out loud. But I can shoot the A7II as my creative kit for awhile, it's no loss but 12 mpx from the A7r. Big deal

    I meant the 16-50 DT lens not the kit lens
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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Or you could get a camera that actually has a good supply of AF lenses dedicated to it?

    I know, I know, for you, Sony E is the end all system -- you've hammered that point. But for those of us that DO regularly appreciate excellent AF, there are other, superior choices than Sony offers in their E mount platform -- really. Perhaps you'd be better served with an A mount Sony of some type? At least here with an adapter, the glass would be usable on your E...
    Actually I ran into the same issues with Nikon and F4 it's the lens speed. The adapter is really a non issue. It's really the ability to see for these cameras. The A77II did a really good job of it but I was trying to go all FE bodies. But I had a 1.8 and 2.8 zoom for it too.

    End of day it's not incredibly important as I get by but sometimes it's just a PITA
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    BTW much to costly to go back to Nikon and end of day it really does not buy me much at all. I don't want that bulk anymore either. The issue is Sony in the FE mount are not making 2.8 zooms because all the freaking whiners about camera size vs lens size.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Or you could get a camera system that actually has a good supply of faster AF lenses dedicated to it? (Gee, I think I've complained about this very thing with Sony E before? )

    I know, I know, for you Sony E is the end all system, you've hammered that point every time I bring up any of its warts. But a point I've hammered back is that good AF is a big void with the E system platform.

    You already know *MY* preference for outstanding AF and it aint anything Sony makes. Perhaps you'd be better served with an A mount Sony of some type? At least here with an adapter, the glass would be reasonably usable on your E...
    Btw the A77ii is far faster than you think, they compare it almost equal to the D4 if not better in some areas for a load less money.

    Jack Nikon is meaningless to me . I never liked the colors the lenses or much about it. It was the only thing available after the MF stuff. You like it but I bought all ZEISS glass for it, so end of day what was the whole point of it. AF or not the D800e sucked at it outside the central point.

    I'm actually quite sick of hearing about Nikon and at this point will never buy it again just because of that alone.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Fuji could care less about whinners.

    They just make excellent lenses..2.8, 1.2, 1.4, 4.

    They have realised that physics is relevant
    to the size, aperture, and fl.

    As have the Dslr makers, and mFT.

    But some are still fighting physics and their
    Supporters are waiting for a new physics
    paradigm.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Switching tires

    I had some real file issues with my fuji . I kept getting patern issues on the files. Really weird but I agree they make some nice glass for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Actually I ran into the same issues with Nikon and F4 it's the lens speed. The adapter is really a non issue. It's really the ability to see for these cameras. The A77II did a really good job of it but I was trying to go all FE bodies. But I had a 1.8 and 2.8 zoom for it too.

    End of day it's not incredibly important as I get by but sometimes it's just a PITA
    You ran into it on the D800E. f4 does not present an AF problem on the D810 or of all things, the Df But I totally understand you don't like or want Nikon, no skin off my nose -- I love its files and mechanics -- different strokes.
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    Re: Switching tires

    Guy:
    If you need low-light autofocus capability can you rent an A7S and try your FE glass on that? The A7S does not have very fast autofocus but it does have good low light sensing capability. It can usually lock on better than the A7R in low light. I say rent because I don't recommend buying it without knowing your exact conditions. I mentioned your FE lenses because it doesn't give better performance for adapted a-mount lenses because that still depends on the LAEA4 adapter for autofocus.
    Regards,
    John
    Sony fanboy, shamelessly shilling for "the man" since 2010.
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    Re: Switching tires

    John been thinking about that as well and honestly i don't need more than 12mpx for this stuff anyway. Its a real option I am considering now. The A7r is going to be sold anyway at some point to be replaced with a new model when it comes out and I can certainly use the A7II in its roll for awhile. Really not a big issue to sell it now and get the A7s. Hmmm plus i get tremendous high ISO to boot.
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    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
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    Re: Switching tires

    I think the solution will present itself once the conflict of what you want vs what you have vs what you need to make $ resolves itself.
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    Re: Switching tires

    There is absolutely no comparison (IQ wise) between the A7 series cams vs the NEX ("Alpha APS-C", E mount") with tiny pixels.

    The A7s is a cut above everything. AF is also very fast even in low light.

    Guy, If 12 is enough, you have spectacular choice, albeit a bit pricey.

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    Re: Switching tires

    I was going to recommend the A7s as well. It locks on in low light with f/4 lenses no problem. I actually tried it last summer in the stock room with the 70-200 mounted of the GAS Pusher (camera store.) I was shooting and locking on stopped down to f/8 with ISO between 25600 and 102400. Really impressive and if Sony put out a replacement in the future with at least 16MP I'll buy one as my everyday camera no question.
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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by segedi View Post
    I think the solution will present itself once the conflict of what you want vs what you have vs what you need to make $ resolves itself.
    Yea the issue does come down to cash. Big Time. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I was going to recommend the A7s as well. It locks on in low light with f/4 lenses no problem. I actually tried it last summer in the stock room with the 70-200 mounted of the GAS Pusher (camera store.) I was shooting and locking on stopped down to f/8 with ISO between 25600 and 102400. Really impressive and if Sony put out a replacement in the future with at least 16MP I'll buy one as my everyday camera no question.
    I was just waiting for someone to tell me this. LOL

    Need loan shark. ROTFLMAO

    Seriously to stay in the FE mount this maybe the answer. This is becoming a math issue now.

    A7r =1200
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    Re: Switching tires

    Maybe renting is the smart way to go until you see first hand if it works for you and you sinking money into it or rid yourself of gear you may later regret selling prematurely.

    I can tell you that of the 3 original FE bodies that it locks on and focuses in lowlight significantly faster that the other 2 which I still own. I haven't handled a A7mk2 (on purpose) so I can't compare it to that but the A7s will also grant you tethered live view in C1P8 if that matters to you as well. 12MP is fine for smaller prints up to [email protected] IMO but I'd want more MP for cropping or prints 16x24 or larger.

    I personally print just about everything in either 18x27 or 24x36 ([email protected])
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    Re: Switching tires

    Actually I have read about the focusing abilities in low light in several places and been thinking about this cam out of the gate. Still noodling all of this. Costs are big here but it does make sense.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Yeah it does seem to be the best current Sony solution to your problem.
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    Re: Switching tires

    LOL I got a load of problems. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Anyone need a A7r cheap. LOL

    Than I could use the 24-70 with the A7s and that would be a pretty decent combo for this stuff. Than when the A7r replacement comes I can sell the A7II and jump up.

    The A7II is just a damn good all arounder cam. The A7s gets me the speed and the A7RII gets me the mpx. That separates my system better but can compliment it also
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Trying to decide I have a member that will take my 85mm in trade for a A7s and cash of course.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Trying to decide I have a member that will take my 85mm in trade for a A7s and cash of course.
    Well you can always crop a 50-ish lens on the A7r to get you close to 85 until the 90FE is released in a couple months. Who knows maybe you just trade out the A7R then. I'm sure the replacement will be announced if not released by July.
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    Re: Switching tires

    Hate losing lenses here in a way. But if all works out I could get the 24-70 F4 and the Loxia 50mm F2. Need to sell the Mitikan and A7r immediately
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    Re: Switching tires

    I dont find the 2470 that bad on the A7II, but if light is low I prefer the 35/2.8FE or the Loxia.
    Tonight I took images with a DF and 35/1.4G at ISO 10.000. Wow, I wonder why people say the DF doesnt focus in low light. Maybe they use slow lenses.
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    Re: Switching tires

    Not to confuse you but would a 16-35 combined with a 70-200 on a A7S work better than the 24-70 since you have the middle covered with a 50-ish lens?
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    Re: Switching tires

    Guy,


    Reality is you deal with the poor AF of the Sony mirrorless ... shoot MF .... or move back to a system that has adequate AF ... and it is not any of the small mirrorless cams.

    I have the A7s Ricoh GXR M module and the Nikon D810 ...

    The A7s is profoundly great for MF video in 4K

    The GXR profoundly great for MF stills

    The D810 has AF that rivals any camera on the market for your needs....
    not a sports camera but for most everything else it smokes the systems on the mirrorless cameras.

    Most of my lenses are Nikon mount adapted to the A7s ... but they work on the D810.

    D810 rivals the Df and is close to the D3s and Canon 1Dx for anything short of a feral hog in attack mode.

    The color of the D810 is Sony A850 realm.

    LISTEN to Jack ...

    Truth is you can make any of it work but that would take the fun out of the quest...

    Bob
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    Re: Switching tires

    The AF on the A7S in low light always amazes me. My NEX-7 is now MF only for me now as the AF frustrates me after using the A7S. In low light the NEX hunts and the LAEA4 isn't much better, they both are frustrating outside of daylight. In my tests the NEX-7 and the A7R AF was very similar.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Guy, I understand the pickle you find yourself in. Since I use both the a7R and the Nikon D810, I can agree with Jack that the Nikon blows away the Sony on AF. No contest. Not even close. The files are actually very similar since they both use Sony sensors.

    If you're staying with the Sony family, your [current] choices seem to be the A6000 and A7S, both of which reportedly focus faster in low light than does the a7/a7R (or a7II?). Actually, the a7-series is so easy to manually focus, AF isn't something I depend on when shooting indoors in low light. With focus magnification on the a7R, I can nail focus every time.

    A lot of us on GetDPI are like vultures waiting for your next castoff.

    We need an emoji for "my two cents".

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    Re: Switching tires

    I'm actually going to stay pat on the A7r and sell my 85 1.4 and get a 24-70 zoom 2.8 . I think the one stop will help. The A7II is actually good with the 16-35 but not the 24-70 Sony and not sure why that is. I also have the Loxia 35 and 50 coming as needed in that area. My mention of Sony and fast AF is more the A77II but DSLR cams are a non starter for me. I'm so freaking bored of them I can't tell us. 40 years of any one thing is way too long. I like the good parts of mirror less . I would not go back for a slight increase in the D810 ability. Not a big enough jump from what I sold off.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Firmware 1.21 has just been released to fix lens hunting in lowlight.

    Sony Japan
    Last edited by Slingers; 8th April 2015 at 16:20. Reason: Fixed link

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    Re: Switching tires

    Whoa. Somebody was listening. Have to check that out
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Interesting the A7II is not listed but the issue really is the A7r. Cool
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    Re: Switching tires

    Further reading suggests the firmware is mostly for the 24-240 lens.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Guy my guess is the next generation of these full frame mirrorless cameras should come really close to bridging the gap between dSLR performance and mirrorless performance. If it does I know most of my 22 A mount lenses will be hitting the selling block and I will convert to 95% E mount. I have lots of apc E mount glass but have not jumped on the a7x series as of yet because just before their release I bought a a99 and then the a77II for wildlife and macros.

    I was a early adopter of the original NEX5 then the 7 and enjoy the pro's of mirrorless but like you AF speed was a issue. Bill with his BIF pelican pics with the a7II have me convinced the next generation should be good enough for my needs so I can make the move to nearly all E mount. Don't think I will run a adapter and long telephotos with it as it sort of loses it's design intent when used that way(I only used the adapter a few times with the Nex cameras and A mounts for the same reason.... if I am going big glass there is no need to go with a small body and adapter with it... might as well use a A mount body with it.

    I am sure that someone will fill the demand for faster E mount glass if the demand is there whether it be Sony or a 3rd party company. As I see it E mount FE is still a new system and it has far more glass than we had when the NEX5 was in its second generation.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Guy, you could have had the 7s by now, with no loss of $$$$ if you had bought it sooner instead of buying the a6000 and a77II, which you probably lost a few shekels on when you sold them or traded them in.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Switching tires

    Yea . My issue still is cost and 12mpx with the S. If it had 16 or better I would have probably jumped on it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Honestly Guy, this is why I kept my A99 ... with the ZA24-70/2.8 pretty much glued to it.

    Mostly for all the "expected" Donkey work at weddings and events. Really not all that much bulkier than the A7 with the LEA-4 adapter + ZA24-70/2.8 and I can assure you it AF better in lower light ... I use it in crap wedding reception light and dingy churches. I just don't want any unnecessary headaches when doing that "money making" part of a wedding.

    It has IBIS, and the best articulated LCD I've ever seen ... which helps make up for the size. Add a speed-light and it all balances out better than with my A7 set-up

    Personally, I refuse to buy a FE f/4 lens ... tried it and it just didn't work for me. For the A7 camera, I have the FE35/2.8 and FE55/1.8 for AF (which I should sell since I rarely use them). I either work with a few select M f/1.4 or f/2 lenses, or the fast aperture A mounts + LEA-4 ... the ZA24/2 is smaller and AF is quite fast ... which is my most used A mount lens on the A7R+LEA-4 ... don't use the ZA24-70/2.8 on the A7R unless for back-up.

    I know you want to stick with the A7 bodies, but I'm glad I didn't sell my A99/ZA kit for the very reason you posted this thread.

    - Marc

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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm actually going to stay pat on the A7r and sell my 85 1.4 and get a 24-70 zoom 2.8 . I think the one stop will help. The A7II is actually good with the 16-35 but not the 24-70 Sony and not sure why that is. I also have the Loxia 35 and 50 coming as needed in that area. My mention of Sony and fast AF is more the A77II but DSLR cams are a non starter for me. I'm so freaking bored of them I can't tell us. 40 years of any one thing is way too long. I like the good parts of mirror less . I would not go back for a slight increase in the D810 ability. Not a big enough jump from what I sold off.
    Putting a big DSLR-lens with an adapter on a small mirrorless body doesnt sound like very well balanced to me. Wouldnt you combine the disadvantages of the A7-series (in regards of AF, no top display, short battery live, too many buttons) with the disadvantages of DSLR-lenses (size)?

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    Senior Member Eoin's Avatar
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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ... snip ..The issue is Sony in the FE mount are not making 2.8 zooms because all the freaking whiners about camera size vs lens size.
    AND who's whining about not wanting the bulk of a full blown DSLR system ... those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

    Really though when you think on it, the Alpha 2.8 Zeiss zooms were neither compact or light. I think us size whiners will be happy when we have a few good primes AF or MF that we can throw into a bag and spend the day shooting without being weighed down or walk with a stoop under the weight.

    That 28 f2, 55 f1.8 and 90 macro are looking quite nice for a simple AF 3 lens setup.
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85

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    Re: Switching tires

    Guys I'm not buying Nikon the conversation ends there. Let's get that out right now. Been there done that and had all ZEISS glass MF lenses in the end. What was the real point end of day. Most boring system I ever laid hands on and the worst AF lenses to manual focus. Its not me I also resent getting it shoved down my face every 5 minutes like I made a mistake selling it.
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    Re: Switching tires

    The best thing about Nikon is...that I am not using it.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Folks this was not about the speed of the AF. I thought I was pretty clear on that. It's about the ability for the camera to actually see in low light to even focus. My biggest issue is speed of the 24-70 F4 lens. I was asking about some 2.8 zooms . The A7r is not the greatest reading low EVs. The A7II seems to be better at it. The S is better at it in the system. The A77II in A mount was really good at it, that I should have kept as it always worked flawlessly. If I made a mistake it was there not and trust me selling my Nikons. That system was not what I wanted to shoot period.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Switching tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The ZA Sony 24-70 is not bad either but I'm not willing to spend that kind of money....

    Thoughts on what 2.8 zoom would AF best on these A7 series. Obviously it's going to be a A mount with my LAe4 adapter.
    Guy, LA-EA4+A mount lens = a57/65 AF (Focus Points : 15-point AF system with 3 cross sensors). I doubt it will be accurate enough for your shooting conditions.
    There's also Tamron 24-70/2.8 USD for Alpha mount as an option.

  50. #50
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    Re: Switching tires

    I was thinking about the Tammy. Actually had one on my Nikon system. It was a very nice lens. Focus point limitation as you say is not the biggest deal. I'm usually fine be until it gets fairly dark and I just lock up. The AF gets confused and locks. Kind of a weird thing that happens. I have the Loxia 35 F2 which I could use now to help when it's really dark. I just think I need a extra stop or 2 of lens that won't bury me. Where I need the zoom range is more on stage like to get a award which could be 1 or several people so the 24-70 is pretty handy there. In those situations the AF works good since there is usually light on stage. It's the shots where people are buried in a corner having a cocktail off stage that usually is dark. Here I can cheat with a foot zoom and a prime. I just need to use my primes more. The new 28 and my Loxia should do the trick here.
    The lockup thing though is weird and not really sure if it's a natural thing it's doing is locking up and pausing the system or its a bug. It does happen on both the A7r more and less on the A7II. I'm thinking it's just buried so deep it cannot read and gets confused. Faster glass should help that.

    It's not the most critical thing but it does bug me sometimes. I know the S would work better since it can read lower EVs than the rest of the A7 family. Just a lot of money to solve a issue I think a fast prime could fix. Kind of rather put my money on glass than a body right now when we know replacements are on the horizon.

    We know Sony has the tech they just need to make the right combination of cam for some of us. Seriously if I had the cash I would have all three cams as they all serve a need.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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