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Thread: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    There is a petition going on at change.org concerning the Sony raw file compression. It is going on since a few months so you may already know about it. If not think about it, you may help it reach the threshold of 1000 voices.

    Here's the link:

    https://www.change.org/p/kazuo-hirai...share_petition

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Link doesn't work.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Link doesn't work.
    I just corrected it.. It should work now, at least it work for me. Tell me if the longer one also results in an error

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Not interested in giving my email in order to sign it.

    I will say it here: Improve the hardware. You charge a lot of cash and presumably make a profit. Deliver the better goods.

    Also, immediately make a set of fast primes like the Sony 28/2.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    does this raw compression only apply to the newer a7 series cameras with 14bit sensor output or also to the older nex series with 12bit RAWs?

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    does this raw compression only apply to the newer a7 series cameras with 14bit sensor output or also to the older nex series with 12bit RAWs?
    From what I know, all the A7 series have the same problem : the sensor delivers 14 bits, but the Sony raws are compressed to 11 bits.
    Last edited by Annna T; 21st April 2015 at 05:36.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    does this raw compression only apply to the newer a7 series cameras with 14bit sensor output or also to the older nex series with 12bit RAWs?
    They offer 8 bit files.

    Presumably, with FF, Sony is on the radar of the bit police.

    AFAIK. there is silence wrt to m43rds, Samsung NX, Ricoh, Sigma etc files.

    There is a cottage industry going on based on this. For example, if you buy Raw digger you can spend hours immersed in picking the pixels apart.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    How will uncompressed raw files make my life better? My Leica M9 had an Uncompressed DNG option which more than doubled file sizes, but try as I never could see any difference. I think the only reason that feature existed at all is because Leica got tired of explaining. Storage space may be cheap, but additional time needed to transfer and back up those files adds up.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Sony Raws Suck. Sorry, but I have to deal with them all the time. I signed. TY so much.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Sony Raws Suck. Sorry, but I have to deal with them all the time. I signed. TY so much.
    Why do they "suck"? What exactly is the problem? Could you share your problems with picture examples? TIA!
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    How will uncompressed raw files make my life better? My Leica M9 had an Uncompressed DNG option which more than doubled file sizes, but try as I never could see any difference. I think the only reason that feature existed at all is because Leica got tired of explaining. Storage space may be cheap, but additional time needed to transfer and back up those files adds up.
    You are correct in the Leica offered an uncompressed and lossless compressed 8-bit option. I too didn't see a huge difference besides slightly more shadow noise at high ISO in the M9 files. To me the higher shadow noise looked like film grain pattern sort of so I generally shot at Lossless Compressed unless I was at cool "once in a lifetime" type locations.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    hmmm, I think Canon also uses compression for their RAW, but they claim to use a lossless compression algorithm.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Basic issue is your trying to pull shadows up and honestly if you expose correctly it should not be a issue. I have yet to see a issue in C1. Sure I would like uncompressed but this maybe related to function of camera both in heat and processor.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Uncompressed in theory should generate less heat, as there is simply less to process. What may be the issue is buffer memory. Having uncompressed RAW would require a larger buffer otherwise the number of images buffered when captured RAW will be considerably less.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Yes, the hardware needs to be up to scratch and much better. More processing power also means more heat. It is not just the sensor heating up but the processor(s) heating up that is major problem. The latest Canon 4K camera has a heat sink in the back (behind the tilt LCD).

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    I vote for DNG uncompressed. Perhaps wishful thinking with Sony. Time will tell.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I vote for DNG uncompressed.
    Why and why not tiff?
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    No DNG PLEASE! Contrary to what Adobe would have you believe, it is NOT an industry standard. So for me, a true raw tiff or even raw proprietary would be excellent!
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Agree no DNG. I do not want to play in Adobes ball park
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why and why not tiff?
    Probably file size and the DNG standard already used by many. I'm personally am not wild about the proprietary formats nor am I wild about the fact that some RAW converters (well really Capture One is the only one I know about that does this) companies that purposely go out of their way to break support for DNG files from specific cameras (any other digital MF camera/back that's not in the Team Phase One family.)

    Apple took forever to support the DNG standard profiles that read lens corrections. This was one of many reasons I went back to LR with version LR4 from Aperture 3.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why and why not tiff?
    First, that's what have come to like and use.
    Second the tiff's are much larger than DNG.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    You would not find much difference between a Leica RAW and tiff.

    OK scratch that. I just saw Jack and Guy's posts. To be specific, you would not find much difference between Nikon RAW (14 bit NEF) files and tiffs.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    A Leica RAW file out of a M9 is much smaller than a TIFF by about 10-20% of the size.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    There has been a very long winded debate about DNGs several years ago and really the issue is this. Adobe wanted to a standard in the industry but most OEMs do not want to give up there secret sauce within a DNG file. They want to control what goes into there files. They other side issue was if its Adobe with the control they could force the raw converter use to themselves only. Once you have the power it's hard to stop than. Other raw converter companies also did not want to support DNGs either. So there are many issues involved here and more than I can remember. Bottom line if you ask me it came down to a big trust issue. But I don't know all the details but I don't want a third party controlling my cameras output.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    Fair enough and I can see both sides of the issue although I also don't want a company telling me that I have to use their MF cameras or else use another RAW processor.

    It sort of makes multiple RAW converters necessary. Short of me hitting (and that requires me to actually play) the lottery, becoming a full time pro which is highly unlikely anytime soon being that most of my work experience is in another field, and/or unless they make a Sony/Digital Mamiya 7 Mirrorless mashup/offer a less expensive/less flexible option ala Pentax then I'm not buying a Phase One system as the top offering cost more than my vehicle... but their software has grown on me.
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    Re: Petition for Sony lossless raw files compression

    FWIW, perhaps an A7 SDK (Software Development Kit) is available from Sony: The A7 series appears to be built upon free/open-source software including the Apache web server and possibly the Linux kernel as well.

    Not crazy about proprietary file formats, but at least most of them have been reverse-engineered, dunno about Foveon X3F or Lytro.
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