Upcoming A7rII

[Vivek]

That view would mean nobody could ever enjoy shooting Otus handheld for example.

After the dozen or so testers, the dozen more who bought them (knowing the bulk and heft) surely enjoy it.

 

[Stefan Steib]

I have to admit , I didn´t buy the Otus either.

But mostly because I´m so happy with the results of my old FD lenses that I use now on the A7R, the 1,2/85mm FD-L, the 2,0/135 FD-N and the 2,0/100mm FD-N, plus my Vivitar 1,2/55mm.

And I am pretty sure these will nicely work on 50 Mpix plus - which I can test next week in Cologne when we have a test shooting with the new Canon 5Dr (maybe an S instead of R , not quite clear yet) and I have remounted all these with ED Mika EF mounts so that will be pretty nice to see them performing on the newest digital Body.

Regards
Stefan

 

[Stefan Steib]

Did you see this - I hope this will not delay the new high MPix Sony:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony...rs-first-does-this-delay-alpha-camera-launch/

 

[The Ute]

I have to admit , I didn´t buy the Otus either.

But mostly because I´m so happy with the results of my old FD lenses that I use now on the A7R, the 1,2/85mm FD-L, the 2,0/135 FD-N and the 2,0/100mm FD-N, plus my Vivitar 1,2/55mm.

And I am pretty sure these will nicely work on 50 Mpix plus - which I can test next week in Cologne when we have a test shooting with the new Canon 5Dr (maybe an S instead of R , not quite clear yet) and I have remounted all these with ED Mika EF mounts so that will be pretty nice to see them performing on the newest digital Body.

Regards
Stefan

Why would you purchase the Otus when you can get practically the same
performance from the much cheaper 55 1.8, and also have it be a fraction of the weight ?

 

[The Ute]

Did you see this - I hope this will not delay the new high MPix Sony:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony...rs-first-does-this-delay-alpha-camera-launch/

I hope not too.

 

[Stefan Steib]

Exactly about the difference between the Otus 55mm and the smaller FE 1,8 I have interviewed Dr. Nasse/Zeiss on last Photokina.
I have tested both lenses and for me I saw the FE was really good, BUT there was something in the Otus images which is hard to decribe - maybe best as an unbelievable clarity and definition.
Dr. Nasse explained to me, that the normal ISO measurements and MTF are not made to see this and as such both lenses will perform very similar on paper, while in reality you do SEE a significant difference.
That may not be a reason for amateurs to buy the otus, but if you need to squeeze out every bit of information from an image for filmmaking, stereography and optical measurements, color definition and especially forthcoming highres cameras with smaller pixel pitch, you will see it and the people who buy it also need it.
Like the last 5-10 % of a highend audio equipment, most people will just not want to pay for this, but there are others who buy the 10000 $ power amp to finally hear that little noise in the background.....

And BTW the Otus line sells very well, there are huge backorders.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

 

[The Ute]

Must be nice to have that much extra cash lying around.

Unfortunately I don't. Got a budget.
I think the extra weight comes into play me too as I photograph Landscapes and frequently need to hike
to get places.

 

[Vivek]

That may not be a reason for amateurs to buy the otus, but if you need to squeeze out every bit of information from an image for filmmaking, stereography and optical measurements, color definition and especially forthcoming highres cameras with smaller pixel pitch, you will see it and the people who buy it also need it.

I understand professions like film making and testing (probably a bigger money maker than film making). What is stereography?

But most of all, why hang it on a sub optimal A7r and the like when there are better cameras (for which they are optimised) out there? Zeiss went to lengths to explain how the Lotus and Batii are optimised for Sony.

 

[Vivek]

Oops! Loxii and not Lotus.

Coming to think of it, Zeiss have a proper set of high end lenses for film makers made in Oberkochen, Germany.

So, that pretty much leaves out the testing part in that list.

 

[tn1krr]

But most of all, why hang it on a sub optimal A7r and the like when there are better cameras (for which they are optimised) out there? Zeiss went to lengths to explain how the Lotus and Batii are optimised for Sony.

For handheld use currently the A7R is the optimal platform; slightly better sensor performance of a Nikon is more than offset by the huge handheld focus advantage of an A7-series camera. Given that Otii are DSLR lenses (small ray angle) so they do not need to be optimized for A7-series specially.

Otus 85 + 36 MP Nikon gets following verdict in terms of a focusing (Ming Thein):

On the subject of focusing, I think this is going to be the biggest hurdle for most users: even with my custom focusing screens, calibrated mirror and finder magnifier, it’s extremely challenging to consistently hit critical focus wide open. The viewfinder system is simply inadequate. The only optical finder-based method I’ve found that can nail focus involves racking it slowly while shooting a burst – disastrous for critical timing, but just fine for static subjects. Live view and a tripod is of course highly advisable.

Personally I do not have trouble understanding why someone would want to use it in a camera where focusing handheld is quite trivial.

 

[Vivek]

For handheld use currently the A7R is the optimal platform; slightly better sensor performance of a Nikon is more than offset by the huge handheld focus advantage of an A7-series camera. Given that Otii are DSLR lenses (small ray angle) so they do not need to be optimized for A7-series specially.

Otus 85 + 36 MP Nikon gets following verdict in terms of a focusing (Ming Thein):

On the subject of focusing, I think this is going to be the biggest hurdle for most users: even with my custom focusing screens, calibrated mirror and finder magnifier, it’s extremely challenging to consistently hit critical focus wide open. The viewfinder system is simply inadequate. The only optical finder-based method I’ve found that can nail focus involves racking it slowly while shooting a burst – disastrous for critical timing, but just fine for static subjects. Live view and a tripod is of course highly advisable.

Personally I do not have trouble understanding why someone would want to use it in a camera where focusing handheld is quite trivial.

I have a hard time understanding this whole line of thinking. Like Stefan said (Zeiss emphasise this), the Otii are not for everyone. Why then would they make it for Canon and Nikon? If the testers think a 11 bit file producing camera is better for the Otii (touted as the "best") just because of focusing convenience while handholding (that does not make sense if the photographer wants to squeeze every 11 bit information out of every pixel available as Stefan stated) why Zeiss, a Sony partner, did not make it for Sony E mount?

 

[Stefan Steib]

Probably a complicated answer: Sony and Zeiss are partners in Lens building , but also competitors in Lens selling. Zeiss certainly has to pay license fees for the emount lenses and probably the number of sold lenses estimated will not pay back on the Otus numbers.... I am not sure, but I suspect something like this.

But who cares, both Nikon and Canon versions can be used perfectly with adapters on E-Mount.

 

[The Ute]

Assuming Sony stays w the 36MP and just does an A7 type makeover where do you see
the price, under or over 2K ?

 

[Vivek]

1499 Euros if it includes a metal mount, EFCS and SSS (aka IBIS). If and only if that price is there, I will bite.

Of course, this does not matter for those discerning professionals with Otii who will accept no compromises.

 

[The Ute]

1499 Euros if it includes a metal mount, EFCS and SSS (aka IBIS). If and only if that price is there, I will bite.

Of course, this does not matter for those discerning professionals with Otii who will accept no compromises.

I believe their is little chance it will sell that low.
Best I think is just under $2000.

 

[algrove]

Vivek
I agree it could come out under Euros 2k, but closer to 2k makes sense when new and then it might fall after many months down to your number.

 

[Vivek]

No, that is the correct figure. IF ( a big IF), they do have 14 bit read out, and make use of the SSS to make the DR or the file size bigger then each of them get ~ 200 Euros as an add on.

They should consider this a very generous price since I have paid xxxx Euros for their current flagship A7r with a plastic mount and that shutter.

 

[sven]

Vivek, assuming you are interested in 59 MP instead of 36, it requires significant increase in processing power. Add in EFCS and SSS, further increase in processing power. Plus put this in a small package as required by the A7 series, add in metal mount etc, the cost is most likely going to be closer to 2.5 to 3k rather than 2k (in dollars). But if it comes in under 2k it will surely make me interested.

 

[The Ute]

Vivek, assuming you are interested in 59 MP instead of 36, it requires significant increase in processing power. Add in EFCS and SSS, further increase in processing power. Plus put this in a small package as required by the A7 series, add in metal mount etc, the cost is most likely going to be closer to 2.5 to 3k rather than 2k (in dollars). But if it comes in under 2k it will surely make me interested.

For discussion purposes we were to assume a 36MP sensor.

 

[Stefan Steib]

IF the 36 Mpix model will come out soon, the positioning will be as top of the line first. The official suggested prices of the last launches have always been around 2200-2300 $/ €
And if a 50+ Mpix model will come, I´d guess it will be under the Canon 5Ds/r Price, so either a bit over 3K or maybe like 2995,-€.

I nearly take any bet the body will look like the A7II, just chip and signalprocessing will be modified.